Chopin Nocturnes: Arrau or Rubinstein...?
Jaime Jean
... or any other, for that matter? I'm not convinced with Nikita Magaloff,
which is the only complete recording I have.
Jaime
Samir Golescu
Between the two, Rubinstein, rather. Moravec and Fiorentino also. The best
bet would be to get different recordings for different nocturnes, of
course. One of these days I'll think of some ideal list. . . there are
nocturnes where there are too many candidates and nocturnes where there
are too few.
regards,
SG
Simon Roberts
"Jaime Jean" <jj...@data.net.mx> wrote in message
news:acpdrc$2f40$1...@news.ca.inter.net...
>
> ... or any other, for that matter? I'm not convinced with Nikita
Magaloff,
> which is the only complete recording I have.
Any of Rubinstein's three sets (I prefer the earlier two, but all three
are worth hearing) strike me as being much superior to Arrau's, which
features some extraordinarily lead-footed playing; when I compared a
slew of 55/2s a while back I was dismayed by his seeming inability to
find, or at least convey, any sort of lyricism in the crucial left hand
part, an effect made only worse by the slow tempo. If it's still in
print somewhere (I got mine from Holland a couple of years ago thanks to
a helpful hint from a poster here), look for Fiorentino's magical set on
Saga (the recorded sound is neither magical nor consistent, but I doubt
it will bother you for long). I would also recommend Pires/DG highly
(she's both consistent and consistently well recorded), along with a few
others such as Francois (another pianist let down by inconsistent
sound), Fou Ts'ong ( a remarkable bargain on Sony, but highly
recommendable at any price), and Weissenberg. If you have any interest
in hearing the music on a period piano, Michelle Boegner/Calliope is
worth investigating (slightly preferable to Luc Devos on Ricercar; too
bad Bart van Oort recorded only half of them and that that half seems
trapped in a decidedly variable box on Brilliant Classics).
Simon
Daniel Levenstein
Sonarrat Citalis
news:acpdrc$2f40$1...@news.ca.inter.net...
> ... or any other, for that matter? I'm not convinced with Nikita Magaloff,
> which is the only complete recording I have.
I like Arrau, but I like Moravec, by all appearances a descendant of
Sofronitzky, even better.
--
-Sonarrat Citalis.
Medtner, Mompou, and originals at http://www.mp3.com/Sonarrat/
Signature at http://sonarrat.stormloader.com/sonarratsig.html
John Thomas
> which is the only complete recording I have.
>
> Jaime
I'm one of the few here who likes the 1978 Arrau set (must be
because we've both been Jungian analysands;-)) but not necessarily in
opposition to Rubinstein, all of whose sets have differing virtues.
Yes, Moravec too; and now I'm going to have to look for that
Fiorentino set I've never heard.
-John Thomas
MrT
convinced by Rubinstein III and even less by I, though they are
certainly very good. In recent months I've been giving Arrau's set a
lot of listening time, and I now find it fascinating. As different
from Rubinstein's as it can get, but very convincing on its own. The
best set for me remains Moravec's, though. I have not heard the
Fiorentino set, which apparently is hard to find. If it's anything
like the other recordings of his I have, it should be magnificent.
What a tragedy that such an original master of piano eroticism did not
record more... That's the way to play a piano.
Regards,
MrT
John Thomas
> "Jaime Jean" <jj...@data.net.mx> wrote in message
> news:acpdrc$2f40$1...@news.ca.inter.net...
>
> > ... or any other, for that matter? I'm not convinced with Nikita Magaloff,
> > which is the only complete recording I have.
>
> I like Arrau, but I like Moravec, by all appearances a descendant of
> Sofronitzky, even better.
Moravec is the descendant of his teacher Michelangeli, who himself
unfortunately did not record even a single Nocturne.
-John Thomas
Josep M. Vilanova
Lots of people like Arrau (like me)! Many years ago I read an astrology quiz
about "how do you like your Chopin?". They mentioned different pianists, with a
short definition of their styles, and the meaning of the quiz was chosing one
of them and check the astrological sign that they represented (and see if they
coincided with the astrological sign of the reader). If my memory serves well,
liking the arrau's darkness was linked with the scorpio sign. I think Cortot
was Piscis. Don't remember about the others.
Jan Winter
<sd...@pobox.upenn.edu> wrote:
>If it's still in
>print somewhere (I got mine from Holland a couple of years ago thanks to
>a helpful hint from a poster here), look for Fiorentino's magical set on
>Saga (the recorded sound is neither magical nor consistent, but I doubt
>it will bother you for long).
Still available at a bargain price from Concerto, Amsterdam.
--
Jan Winter, Amsterdam
(j.wi...@xs4all.nl)
"Real jazz is classical music now" (Kenny Clarke)
alp
sha...@yahoo.com (John Thomas) wrote in message news:<bb0c3ad5.02052...@posting.google.com>...
John Thomas
jmvil...@aol.com (Josep M. Vilanova) wrote:
> > I'm one of the few here who likes the 1978 Arrau set
>
> Lots of people like Arrau (like me)! Many years ago I read an astrology quiz
> about "how do you like your Chopin?". They mentioned different pianists, with
> a short definition of their styles, and the meaning of the quiz was choosing one
> of them and check the astrological sign that they represented (and see if
> they coincided with the astrological sign of the reader). If my memory serves
> well, liking the arrau's darkness was linked with the scorpio sign. I think Cortot
> was Piscis. Don't remember about the others.
Arrau's performance seems more represented by the sign of Cancer,
since like the crab it moves sideways rather than forward ;-0 Yes, I
really do like it.
--
-regards,
John Thomas
Andrew See
the motivation for me to learn many of the nocturnes and to start
collecting nocturne cycles. Not because I like it, but rather the
opposite. I was so dissatisfied by all the understatements, implied
expressions and slow tempi. I like many of the earlier nocturnes from
Rubinstein I, because they are spontaneous and volatile. This
volatility doesn't serve the late ones, and for these I turn to
Rubinstein II.
Fou T'song is a sentimental favourite. They are very well played, but
I do prefer Fou's mazurkas to his nocturnes. (BTW, his surname is Fou,
not T'song).
I will put in another vote for Arrau. dk made fun of me a couple of
years ago when I did this, but many repeated readings confirmed my
initial impressions. As with all Arrau recordings, they are not for
everyone. They are very flexible, with many agogic accents.
Francois is a bit like Rubinstein I, only he is even more spontaneous,
more colourful and more flexible. Even if you don't like his other
Chopin (I found his Ballads and Scherzi too wayward), you will still
like his nocturnes. It is interesting to compare his set with Cortot's
recording(s) of selected nocturnes. You can clearly hear the
similarity in approach and practices.
Pires is good. Modern sound, and very well executed. I tried to find a
reason not to like it, and couldn't come up with a compelling one. It
doesn't however, even come close to displace any of the above as a
favourite.
I wouldn't use Op. 55 No. 2 as a guage to measure a nocturne set.
Together with Op. 62 No. 1, they represent the best of the breed in
the nocturnes and are the most challenging to convey. I still like
Ignaz Friedman's Op. 55 No. 2, followed closely by Horowitz's
recording of this pair. Others, including all 3 Rubinstein's, sounds
blended compared to these. However, you can dislike these 2 from a
nocturne set and still like the other nocturnes. For instance, you may
find the pianist's approach more suited to the earlier, lighter
nocturnes than the more mature ones (as I do in Rubinstein I and
Francois), so I dislike the Op. 55 No. 2 and Op. 62 No. 1 from these
sets but still treasure the other nocturnes.
I listened to Magaloff in the library, and fell asleep. I almost
missed a class because of that. I still don't understand why some
people like his Chopin so much. Same with Ashkenasy on Decca
(selected?), and Harasiewicz (sp?) on Phillips. H came 1st, Ashkenasy
came 2nd and Fou T'song came 3rd in the same Chopin Competition I
believe, but I like Fou T'song's Chopin the best. I heard Biret online
at naxos.com, and was glad that I didn't buy them; however, if you are
looking for a comparison so that you can appreciate your favourite
nocturne set better, I suggest that you try Biret. You will like your
favourite set better after you hear Biret. I like Moravec's Preludes,
but never "found" the budget to buy his nocturnes. It looks like I
should, given what is said here in RMCR...
Andrew
"Simon Roberts" <sd...@pobox.upenn.edu> wrote in message news:<acpj03$9jk$1...@netnews.upenn.edu>...
Sonarrat Citalis
news:bb0c3ad5.02052...@posting.google.com...
With that new information in mind, he does seem to have picked up some of the
clarity of his teacher, but definitely not his style.
Denis Bradford
Sonarrat Citalis wrote:
> > > I like Arrau, but I like Moravec, by all appearances a descendant of
> > > Sofronitzky, even better.
> >
> > Moravec is the descendant of his teacher Michelangeli, who himself
> > unfortunately did not record even a single Nocturne.
>
> With that new information in mind, he does seem to have picked up some of the
> clarity of his teacher, but definitely not his style.
>
> --
> -Sonarrat Citalis.
>
IMHO, if Moravec has a predecessor in temperament and style, it's
Gieseking.
...who also didn't record any Nocturnes, as far as i know.
Anyway, Moravec's Nocturnes certainly deserve a listen.
Denis
Sonarrat Citalis
"Denis Bradford" <denis.b...@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:3CF1BF4C...@verizon.net...
You know, I'm not sure about this either, but then again, I've never heard
Gieseking - I've only read his book. So I can't hold any ground here.
Frank Lekens
sha...@yahoo.com says...
As Jan Winter wrote, Concerto Amsterdam still have it at superbargain
price. I don't know if they ship abroad, but you could mail them to ask.
They don't seem to have a website, but their details are listed on
http://www.jazzmo.demon.nl/SvShops3.html.
--
Frank Lekens
operamail.com is where it's really @
John Thomas
Frank Lekens <kraz...@operamail.invalid> wrote:
Thanks for the info. I've already checked with MDT and been informed
that they cannot obtain the Saga label. One would think that more than
one shop on the planet would be able to supply this 1993 disc.
--
-regards,
John Thomas
Frank Lekens
says...
the Dutch Berkshire in this instance.
Jaime Jean
Thank you all for your suggestions.
From what years are Rubinstein I, II and III?
Jaime
"MrT" <symbi...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:7a96283a.02052...@posting.google.com...
Ramon Khalona
Thanks Mario. Can you, or anyone, provide the dates for the
three Rubinstein recordings? (I am assuming the stereo RCA recording
is his last, is this true?)
RK
Todd Kay
>Can you, or anyone, provide the dates for the
>three Rubinstein recordings? (I am assuming the stereo RCA recording
>is his last, is this true?)
Yes.
I: 1936-37
II: 1949-50
III: All 1965 except Op. 55-2 (1967)
========Todd Kay========
Nicolas Hodges
>... or any other, for that matter? I'm not convinced with Nikita Magaloff,
>which is the only complete recording I have.
Definitely not Arrau. For me it's among his least effective recordings,
right down there with the Waltzes (and not in the same universe as his
valuable 3rd and 4th Ballades and Barcarolle).
I was disappointed by Fiorentino. By a long way my favourite sets are
the two live cycles of Dino Ciani, on Agora and DG Italia. The latter is
cheaper, with slightly better performances but worse sound. Both are
available from www.stradivarius.it (I have no connection except as
customer):
Agora:
http://www.stradivarius.it/classica/Scheda.jsp?isbn=8018430232023
DG:
http://www.stradivarius.it/classica/Scheda.jsp?isbn=0028945710228
I hope others get to hear these as well. They're too little known, IMO.
--
Nic
I reserve the right to use irony and obscure forms of humour without warning
LaVirtuosa
undercurrents in the Nocturnes--his recordings of the full set are a
connoisseur's feast ; also valuable is Sofronitsky's recording of one
Nocturne on the Palladia label comes close to my own concept of the
piece and also, surprisingly, to Chopin's "Italianate" side.
*********Val
Nicolas Hodges <n...@nicolashodges.demon.co.uk> wrote in message news:<AcZxIqPs...@nicolashodges.demon.co.uk>...
Hany Aziz
who comes close is Pires on DG.
I have Arrau, Barenboim, and Castro (could'nt resist the Arte Nova price),
and none match the magic of Rubinstein.
I am refering to his RCA Stereo version. The new remastering for the
Rubinstein edition is a significant improvement over the previous RCA
release.
Sincerely,
Hany.
"Nicolas Hodges" <n...@nicolashodges.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
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