Schumann Piano Trio No.3, Op.110

[Bozo]

Here live with Inon Barnatan, piano, Julian Rachlin, violin, Torleif Thedeen in 2010 in Holland :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uUZ4S28FCgk&t=196s

Was impressed with my first hearing of the work earlier this week on FM. There are many recordings, any you favor , how # 3 compares to the first 2 of his piano trios ( I have yet to hear ) ? TIA.

[Frank Berger]

Florestan Trio gets more out of the music than most, I
think. I think #1 is generally considered the best.

[Bozo]

>On Friday, December 15, 2017 at 9:03:49 AM UTC-6, Frank Berger wrote:
> Florestan Trio gets more out of the music than most, I
> think. I think #1 is generally considered the best.

Thanks, Frank. Have heard # 1 now, a YT with Casals,Horszowski,Schneider from 1952. I think I prefer #3, # 1 seemed a bit long-winded , but I've only heard # 1 once, # 3 twice. There is a Beaux Arts cd of the complete set of three cheap at Amazon I may also consider.

[Bozo]

Have now heard # 2 as well, a 1966 Beaux Arts studio at YT, and think I prefer # 2 over the other two. All very nice music.

[Herman]

On Friday, December 15, 2017 at 6:53:13 PM UTC+1, Bozo wrote:
> Have now heard # 2 as well, a 1966 Beaux Arts studio at YT, and think I prefer # 2 over the other two. All very nice music.

I like two and three best.

[Herman]

In general, Schumann's chamber music is crazily "misunderestimated" (to quote the in hindsight intellectually underestimated nr 43). This is largely because people used to say Schumann could not write for strings.

The Piano Quartet (n o t the Quintet) is a marvellous piece, and so are the three String Quartets and the Violin Sonatas.

[Bozo]

>On Saturday, December 16, 2017 at 3:02:57 AM UTC-6, Herman wrote:
> The Piano Quartet (n o t the Quintet) is a marvellous piece, and so are the three String Quartets and the >Violin Sonatas.

I prefer the Quintet to Quartet, but both very good.Yet to hear the String Quartets, thanks for the suggestion.While I enjoy the violin sonatas ( mine Kremer/Argerich ), I find the piano trios more successful, for me.

[howie...@btinternet.com]

I just want mention a recording which I liked because it's light and airy, not too perfumed and romantic - Altenberg Trio Wein.

[Herman]

The Piano Quartet is less catchy than the Quintet, but a lot better.

The Violin Sonatas are very good.

[Johannes Roehl]

They are very different and it is very understandable that the brilliant and flashy quintet with the dark slow movement is considerably more popular. I think that the slow movement and finale of the Quintet are as good or better than the Quartet but the Quintet is often written like a reduced concerto with the strings often treated "en masse" which can be disappointing for lovers of "true chamber music" whereas the Quartet is written like chamber music with more interesting parts for the strings.

The violin sonatas and the third trio seem to have suffered from prejudice against late (ill, mad) Schumann. This is unfair and they are all highly original and very good works.

[Bozo]

Did get the Beaux Arts Trio ( Pressler,Cohen,Wiley) 1989,1990 studio recordings on a Philips 2-cd set. Cant fault the playing, if a bit less intense in # 3 than the live YT in my OP. Once again, # 2 is the most successful for me,although final mov. of # 1 , slow mov. of # 3 great as well.

Got the cd set used from Amazon seller Goodwill Industries,who appears often as an Amazon seller. Great prices, prompt service, good quality cd's and cases , here including original tray card and complete liner notes booklet . Good to support that organization. Price was $ 5.50, $1.50 for the cd's, $ 4 for s&h. (!)

[Herman]

On Tuesday, December 19, 2017 at 11:07:16 PM UTC+1, Bozo wrote:
> Did get the Beaux Arts Trio ( Pressler,Cohen,Wiley) 1989,1990 studio recordings on a Philips 2-cd set. Cant fault the playing, if a bit less intense in # 3 than the live YT in my OP. Once again, # 2 is the most successful for me,although final mov. of # 1 , slow mov. of # 3 great as well.
>

I love the first movement of the #3, it's so expressive and troubled.

And I think the Rachlin et al performance on YT is exellent.

[Herman]

On Wednesday, December 20, 2017 at 5:12:04 PM UTC+1, Herman wrote:

> I love the first movement of the #3, it's so expressive and troubled.
>

And the ecstatic Polonaise of the final movement.

[Bozo]

>On Wednesday, December 20, 2017 at 2:30:23 PM UTC-6, Herman wrote:
>And the ecstatic Polonaise of the final movement.

Yes, nice.

I disagree with him, but one Max Harrison, who wrote the English liner notes for the Philips cd set , says of that movement : " The finale is a rondo, unduly sectionalised and repetitive.But against the obvious weaknesses of such a movement should be set the originality to be found elsewhere in these works."

BTW, the Philips booklet has the notes in English, French,German and Italian , each written by a different person, rather than the often one set translated.

[Steve Emerson]

Fully agree on said sonatas and trio. Whom do you like in the piano quartet? I have no particular favorite, though Argerich's friends (Rabinovich, Gutman, et al), Demus/Wiener Kammerensemble, and the Florestans are all fairly convincing. (Neither the vaunted Festival Quartet nor Gould/Juilliard does much for me.)

SE.

[Herman]

I listened to the three Schumann Piano Trio recordings I have, Florestan, Fontenay and Eric LeSage et al, and I like Eric LeSage / Gordon Nikolitch and Christophe Coin best. Alpha's luminous recording sound doesn't hurt either.

[mrfi...@gmail.com]

Re: the three works titled "trios," it's good to also hear the four Fantasiestucke in A minor for the medium, Op 88, with, e.g., the Borodin Trio, although I'm sure Le Sage et al have done it nicely too.

There are many classic performances of #1, which for a long time seems to have somehow blocked the others from view. Among them: Cortot/Thibaud/Casals and Richter/Kagan/Gutman. These are both far more interesting than the 1952 with Horszowski, Schneider, and Casals.

Another is Rubinstein/Szeryng/Fournier.

SE.

[Bozo]

>On Sunday, December 24, 2017 at 1:34:13 PM UTC-6, mrfi...@gmail.com wrote:
> Re: the three works titled "trios," it's good to also hear the four Fantasiestucke in A minor for the medium, >Op 88, with, e.g., the Borodin Trio, although I'm sure Le Sage et al have done it nicely too.

The Philips 1989-90 Beaux Arts cd set also has the Op.88.

[Johannes Roehl]

I don't know "Festival" and Demus (LP only?). I quite like the Gould/Juilliard, they are especially brilliant in the finale, maybe somewhat prosaic elswhere and Gould is Gould even when he behaves reasonably well.
Florestan is also very good in a less quirky way. For a modern recording their two discs with Trio, Fantasy pieces op.88 and piano quartet are probably the best bet.
Argerich and friends (not sure if there might be several different ones?) is more romantic than either. I probably have another couple of recordings (e.g. Fauré quartet) but would have to re-listen to them.

The op.88 shows another innovative feature of Schumann, namely that he wrote quite a bit of chamber music in the freer poetic forms he preferred for piano music. Not many composers before the 20th century followed with similar chamber miniatures. (There is a little Bruch for clarinet and/or viola and a fascinating cycle "Schilflieder" op. 28 ("Reed songs", the pun does not work in German, though, as the oboe's reed is called "Rohr") for oboe, viola and piano by August Klughardt.)

Another gem is Kirchner's arrangement of the op.56 pedal piano pieces for trio, sometimes included as filler (e.g in the Altenberg Trio recording). The op.56 are wonderful in any form, maybe the most poetic pieces in the "Schumann inspired by Bach" vein.

[cooper...@gmail.com]

A propos of op. 110 (Piano Trio #3), there is a terrific historical recording (1928) by the Trio de la cour Belgique posted on Symphonyshare in an excellent transfer. What a beautiful piece! For a complete set of the trios in modern sound, I have and enjoy the Florestan Trio, but my first recommendation would be Andsnes and the Tetzlaffs (EMI); their set also includes opp. 56 and 88.

I know what Steve and Johannes mean about the ongoing search for the perfect op. 47. Another one to check out is Leonard Pennario with Eudice Shapiro et al, available free from Rediscovery (RD 105). A crisp performance that is full of verve. Like Steve, I also enjoy Demus/Wiener Kammerensemble, but might prefer the earlier Demus/Barylli.

AC

[Frank Berger]

Argerich recorded the quartet with a different set of
friends (2 Capucons and a Chen). Don't know how they
compare or if the two sets of friends know each other.

[mrfi...@gmail.com]

Many thanks to Johannes and Alan for thoughts on the piano quartet. Sorry about slow acknowledgment, there were obstacles.

I was able to revisit Gould/Juilliard via a much-improved transfer posted on Youtube, and am very taken with it. Don't know why I didn't connect before. You're right that the finale, extremely up-tempo, is of special note. I also admire the Andante, taken at just the right walking but expressive tempo. What an asset Claus Adam is here.

I found Pennario/Shapiro et al strong as well. Maybe a bit over the top in the Andante, a bit slow and indulgent, but that may just be me.

Think I can try Tetzlaff/Andsnes in the trios via public library. I notice there's also a set using Vogt. These works moving from under-recorded to saturation in the space of a decade or so.

SE.


There are in fact two with Argerich's friends, and I haven't heard the one she plays on herself. I did like Le Sage et al on Youtube, where you can see them performing it (same musicians as on CD, don't know if the release is also live).

[Frank Lekens]

mrfi...@gmail.com schreef op 31-12-2017 01:54:

Among older recordings there's also Horszowski + New York quartet. And
among more recent recordings the Mandelring Quartet + Claire-Marie
Leguay and the Jerusalem Quartet + Alexander Melnikov. And Sudbin with
various soloists. And Jozef de Beenhouwer + Panocha quartet.

That should keep you occupied for a while. :-)

--
Frank Lekens

http://fmlekens.home.xs4all.nl/
https://franklekens.blogspot.nl/