Tchaikovsky "Manfred" Finale - Soviet version

[Kerrison]

I wonder how many Russian conductors in the Soviet era opted for what presumably must be called the "alternative ending" to the 'Manfred' Symphony. This entailed omitting the organ altogether in the fourth movement's pianissimo closing pages and replacing these with the fortissimo ending of the first movement. Whoever devised this version incorporated Toscanini's added tam-tam crashes while they were at it.

Here is that finale with Temirkanov and the St. Petersburg Philharmonic, taken from a DVD of the London 'Proms' performance given in 1992 at the Royal Albert Hall. It will be noted that he also made quite a few cuts in the score ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O3hXgvJOUEE

Here is Svetlanov and the USSR State Academic Symphony Orchestra from 1985, again with the 'Soviet' ending ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=90vmqb9Mih0

He also did this version again in 1992 ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EqweNvTnheA

However, in this undated performance, Svetlanov and the USSR State Symphony gave the original "quiet" ending ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zrlh_ySLSdM

I wonder if other Soviet conductors at the time used the "loud" ending. Rozhdestvensky wasn't one of them and indeed his organ entry blows your socks off, not least because he has the organ continuing to play fortissimo along with the rest of the orchestra, doubling their parts, when in the score it had actually long stopped playing! ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Lo0m-wp3Zc&t=2459s

Incidentally, in his notes to the Temirkanov DVD, David Nice wrote that the 'Soviet ending "is particularly convincing, a rather good substitute for a glib happy end." Well that's alright then!

[Dan Koren]

Thanks for this research, it is quite interesting! Personally
I prefer the quiet ending. No need for the organ or for more
brass.

dk

[MELMOTH]

Kerrison avait prétendu :

> I wonder how many Russian conductors in the Soviet era opted for what
> presumably must be called the "alternative ending" to the 'Manfred' Symphony.
> This entailed omitting the organ altogether in the fourth movement's
> pianissimo closing pages and replacing these with the fortissimo ending of
> the first movement. Whoever devised this version incorporated Toscanini's
> added tam-tam crashes while they were at it.

Thank you for this very interesting contribution...
Personally, I have always preferred the versions with organ...

[drh8h]

And not just Russian conductors. This 1967 live performance by William Steinberg and the NYP has an alternative ending. I have not checked it against other versions to hear if it is exactly the same. I was very surprised when listening to it and the usual ending did not occur. Available from https://www.78experience.com/welcome.php?mod=disque&disque_id=1637. I don't believe this is on YouTube.

DH

[Christopher Howell]

Add Caetani (Markevitch's son, shame on him!) to those who play the "Soviet" ending (RAI Nazionale 4.11.2011). I didn't check if he also made cuts, but with a timing of 14:59, and his tempi are not slow, I would assume not.
Add also Sokhiev (Berlin PO 2014) as reported here: https://slippedisc.com/2014/06/wrong-tchaikovsky-ending-at-the-berlin-philharmonic/

Since not all Soviet conductors played it this way (Rozhdestvensky didn't, neither did Fedoseyev), and since Steinberg who was certainly not a Soviet conductor seems the earliest recorded case, perhaps we should be looking for a different name - "loud ending", "vulgar ending", or simply "wrong ending".

[Christopher Howell]

Add also van Zweden (Dallas 2011) https://myscena.org/paul-robinson/dso-and-van-zweden-a-persuasive-manfred-in-dallas-2/. And this critic thinks it a great improvement

The way things are going, it will be difficult to hear a performance with Tchaikovsky's own ending at all

[Kerrison]

On Thursday, January 5, 2023 at 10:58:48 AM UTC, Christopher Howell wrote:
> Add also van Zweden (Dallas 2011) https://myscena.org/paul-robinson/dso-and-van-zweden-a-persuasive-manfred-in-dallas-2/. And this critic thinks it a great improvement
>
> The way things are going, it will be difficult to hear a performance with Tchaikovsky's own ending at all

And we mustn't forget that Arturo "Do as written" Toscanini lopped over 100 bars - about 5 minutes of music - out of the finale too, though he stuck with the usual published closing pages. In his "Toscanini and the Art of Conducting" Robert C. Marsh opined that "by editing and selective rescoring, Toscanini made this a better work than Tchaikovsky left it." Well, that's alright then. However, if Stokowski had done exactly the same thing, even though he never conducted it in his entire life, you can bet that R. C. Marsh would have given him hell!

[Bob Harper]

The Marsh book was my imprint on Toscanini, and when his recordings
started being reissued on Victrola, I bought a lot of them. They're all
gone now, though I do still have a few from the Naxos 1939 Beethoven
Cycle and the EMI Icon box with the BBC, and a few Pearls with the
NYPSO. Haven't listened for a while. I do remember the BBC Beethoven 4
as being excellent.

Bob Harper