Pollini and Gilels play Chopin preludes.

howie...@btinternet.com

unread,

May 12, 2017, 5:50:09 PM5/12/17

to

Pollini

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=bnXMX31ApWQ

Gilels

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Oe37XhF6Usk

Both seem to be striving for some sort of objectivity, an architectural approach, but how much more successful Pollini is - I like the subtlety and naturalness of the emotions, while Gilels seems just cold to me, an emotional void.

Andy Evans

unread,

May 13, 2017, 12:21:36 AM5/13/17

to

I don't know of any completely satisfying account of the Preludes. I have an iTunes playlist made up of a patchwork of the following:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gborhb6z3To Moiseiwitch

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ISQdvh1BMuI Pogorelich

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3mI36Zxkie0 Sofronitsky

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3e22O1PUJyw Cortot 1933

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lWVbUnhgcrY Cortot 1926

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fmRMyRYYGtQ Koczalski

Barny

unread,

May 13, 2017, 5:59:37 AM5/13/17

to

Not to forget Sergio Fiorentino's recording from 1959:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ASX7qQCKOc0

AG

unread,

May 13, 2017, 6:55:02 AM5/13/17

to

> Not to forget Sergio Fiorentino's recording from 1959:
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ASX7qQCKOc0

And not to forget the incredible Zhukov:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=__hMZL1uosw

or likewise Moravec:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LUlrlysEKQk

Bozo

unread,

May 13, 2017, 7:13:20 AM5/13/17

to

>On Saturday, May 13, 2017 at 4:59:37 AM UTC-5, Barny wrote:
>Not to forget Sergio Fiorentino's recording from 1959:

Agreed. His No.2 is unique, perhaps the only "Lento" on record ?

Andy Evans

unread,

May 13, 2017, 9:04:48 AM5/13/17

to

Thanks for the Zhukov reference. I was very taken with his performances, both individually and as a whole. Some things notably stood out - he takes liberties but ones which are musically justified.

I found Morevec unremarkable and Fiorentino disappointing - a number of preludes I just didn't like.

When Pogorelich is good, he's very good to my ears - like 3, 10, 11, 12, and especially 14 which is played like the last movement of Sonata 3

Sofronitsky appeals because he makes something out of the cheesy numbers like 13, 17 and 20. I always found the preludes infuriatingly uneven, and I enjoy the Raindrop about as much as I enjoy Pachelbels's Canon or Bolero. I'm surprised that Richter recorded as many as 13 of them.

Cortot is always a contender in Chopin - I don't know what the general preference is for 1926 or 1933

And I need my dose of the Golden Age - Friedman, Kocxalski, Rosenthal in 6, 11, 19, probably a few more of the old guys as well

howie...@btinternet.com

unread,

May 13, 2017, 9:33:58 AM5/13/17

to

I prefer Moravec's first recording to his Supraphon

howie...@btinternet.com

unread,

May 13, 2017, 9:37:07 AM5/13/17

to

Apart from Pollini, one I like a lot is Gulda.

Bozo

unread,

May 13, 2017, 10:28:13 AM5/13/17

to

<On Saturday, May 13, 2017 at 8:37:07 AM UTC-5, howie...@btinternet.com wrote:
> Apart from Pollini, one I like a lot is Gulda.

While maligned by most, including by the pianist himself, I still like many of Rubinstein’s readings and dark tone throughout :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a9dCW0dJrCo ( # 24 )

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vdjVH_Pg_WA&list=RDvdjVH_Pg_WA (# 16 )

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U6vJmHiHBMo ( # 7 )

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q72Kdxxt-dI ( # 8 )

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8-xDO8lorRA ( # 22 )

HT

unread,

May 13, 2017, 12:30:46 PM5/13/17

to

> Cortot is always a contender in Chopin - I don't know what the general preference is for 1926 or 1933

Probably the 1933/4 version because of the sound.Although Naxos did a great job on the 1926 version. I have no favorite but remember liking Fliter among the more recent ones.

Henk

Steve Emerson

unread,

May 13, 2017, 1:21:37 PM5/13/17

to

The Moravec linked to by AG is the earlier set, done for Connoisseur. I've been insisting forever that the later one, on Supraphon, is preferable. I find the former overly nuanced but love the latter, which has plenty of bite. Can certainly understand the attraction of the other, though.

Some of Cortot's set from ca. 1942 are preferable to the earlier counterparts, for me, although as a whole it's less satisfactory. I agree that Fiorentino is far below his best here. Like the Etudes and Waltzes he recorded (quickly) at the same time, it seems a bit dashed off -- although I think the outcome in the Waltzes is terrific.

Gilels, released somewhat mysteriously for the first time in 1990 -- as an LP, is something I transferred about 15 years ago. Objectivity is probably part of his plan, but I think it's more a matter of a hardness, toughness of emotion. It's severe not so much due to detachment as to a kind of passion. Notably, it's a live performance -- from about 1953.

An interesting thing about the wonderful Zhukov performance is that the sound is richer and the account that much more effective via the original vinyl issue.

Sofronitsky -- there's a full set, but in addition there's a set something like 22 or 23 Preludes. Undoubtedly accounted for in discographies posted here recently. Very interesting and wonderful performances, for sure -- but I find them a bit more outré than necessary. His Op 45 is fabulous.

SE.

howie...@btinternet.com

unread,

May 13, 2017, 2:10:56 PM5/13/17

to

I'm not a great lover of Moravec in op 28, the second seems particularly heavily romantic, which just isn't my cup of tea any more.

For Cortot, I listen to the 1957 most now, the transfer in the Anniversary edition, because you get a good idea of the sound he made.

Another one worth catching, really for the beauty of the sound, is Wojciech Switala.

AG

unread,

May 13, 2017, 2:36:27 PM5/13/17

to

> While maligned by most, including by the pianist himself, I still like many of Rubinstein’s readings and dark tone throughout :
>

I've never personally warmed to Rubinstein's Chopin, however, and as you say, there is a darkness to his post-war preludes that really grabs me.

One other live recording that stands out, well, the whole recital stands out (Op28, Op10, Op25) as one of the finest in my collection, is Geza Anda, on Orfeo.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/d/CDs-Vinyl/Chopin-Preludes-op28-Etudes-op10/B003V4G2YA/ref=sr_1_6/259-4789209-1865256?ie=UTF8&qid=1494700291&sr=8-6&keywords=and+orfeo+chopin

And of course the inimitable Cherkassky, also on Orfeo from 1968. It's been some time since I listened to this so I can't comment as to its qualities.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D1F1oo7e85E

Bozo

unread,

May 13, 2017, 4:39:28 PM5/13/17

to

>On Saturday, May 13, 2017 at 1:36:27 PM UTC-5, AG wrote:
>One other live recording that stands out, well, the whole recital stands out >(Op28, Op10, Op25) as one of the finest in my collection, is Geza Anda, on >Orfeo.

Yes (!), I have that Anda as well. He tires at times, who wouldn't,but remarkable,insightful readings.

Andy Evans

unread,

May 14, 2017, 5:27:41 AM5/14/17

to

> And of course the inimitable Cherkassky, also on Orfeo from 1968. It's been some time since I listened to this so I can't comment as to its qualities.
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D1F1oo7e85E

Cherkassky - good call - another of the older Golden Age pianists. Listening to quite a few of them as a result of this thread reminded me of how imperfectly some of the fast arpeggios used to be played e.g. #3, particularly when some of the pianists were getting well on in years, compared with some of the almost faultless contemporary virtuosi. But what fabulous nuance and melodic control in the right hand.

AG

unread,

May 14, 2017, 5:53:03 AM5/14/17

to

> Cherkassky - good call - another of the older Golden Age pianists. Listening to quite a few of them as a result of this thread reminded me of how imperfectly some of the fast arpeggios used to be played e.g. #3, particularly when some of the pianists were getting well on in years, compared with some of the almost faultless contemporary virtuosi. But what fabulous nuance and melodic control in the right hand.

I forgot about the Cherkassky studio Op28 on ASV, also from 1968...but if memory serves there was nothing particular to recommend, and certainly not over the live recording on Orfeo.

Some selcted preludes live can be found on the Decca series:
http://www.shura-cherkassky.info/cd_decca.html

dk

unread,

May 14, 2017, 6:43:41 AM5/14/17

to

howie...@btinternet.com

unread,

May 14, 2017, 7:06:40 AM5/14/17

to

Cherkassky in Salzburg is a good example of the approach which applies a load of expressive techniques to the music.

I've just started to listen to Pollini's second (2011) recording of them for DG. Has anyone else heard it?

AG

unread,

May 14, 2017, 9:50:14 AM5/14/17

to

On Sunday, 14 May 2017 11:43:41 UTC+1, dk wrote:
> Curiously, no one mentioned

> or Claudio Arrau:
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DDkhi9dt0TU
>

> dk

Curiously, I cannot believe the real DK would be advocating this unless, of course, age has brought with it a finer pair of ears? ;-)

AG

dk

unread,

May 14, 2017, 2:46:45 PM5/14/17

to

On Sunday, May 14, 2017 at 6:50:14 AM UTC-7, AG wrote:
> On Sunday, 14 May 2017 11:43:41 UTC+1, dk wrote:
> > Curiously, no one mentioned
>
> > or Claudio Arrau:
> > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DDkhi9dt0TU
>

> Curiously, I cannot believe the real DK would be
> advocating this unless, of course, age has brought
> with it a finer pair of ears? ;-)

I did not "advocate". I merely mentioned.

dk

howie...@btinternet.com

unread,

May 14, 2017, 4:16:08 PM5/14/17

to

Re Steve's comments on Gilels and toughness, I think that it's more true of Pollini's second recording, which seems to me hard, angry.

AG

unread,

May 14, 2017, 5:36:52 PM5/14/17

to

> I did not "advocate". I merely mentioned.
>
> dk

BS.

Dan Koren on "Claudio Arthritis":

I prefer to keep them around to demonstrate to
my guests how not to play the piano. Most of
the time they fall asleep after a few minutes.

dk

dk

unread,

May 14, 2017, 6:42:25 PM5/14/17

to

On Sunday, May 14, 2017 at 2:36:52 PM UTC-7, AG wrote:
> > I did not "advocate". I merely mentioned.
>

> BS.
> Dan Koren on "Claudio Arthritis":
>

Misspelling. It's actually "Arrauthritis". ;-)

dk

timwill...@gmail.com

unread,

May 15, 2017, 5:25:48 PM5/15/17

to

Op maandag 15 mei 2017 00:42:25 UTC+2 schreef dk:

Stupid and inaccurate comment! You should play Arrau's live recording of the Chopin Preludes (1960) to your friends. Just listen to nr 16, where he even leaves Argerich in the dust. Nobody can maintain that Arrau was not able to play the piano.

TW

Steve Emerson

unread,

May 15, 2017, 5:52:18 PM5/15/17

to

Agreed that Arrau live 1960 is a good one. Another from Dan's "unmentioned" list that is exceptional is Pletnev; thinking of a live set that is tremendous as well as apt, not sure whether it was ever released commercially or whether there's a counterpart. First half of the 200_ decade.

SE.

Bozo

unread,

May 15, 2017, 9:23:56 PM5/15/17

to

>On Monday, May 15, 2017 at 4:52:18 PM UTC-5, Steve Emerson wrote:
>Another from Dan's "unmentioned" list that is exceptional is Pletnev; thinking of a live set that is tremendous >as well as apt,

Agreed about that Pletnev.

christian....@gmail.com

unread,

May 16, 2017, 3:00:43 AM5/16/17

to

Den måndag 15 maj 2017 kl. 23:52:18 UTC+2 skrev Steve Emerson:
> Agreed that Arrau live 1960 is a good one. Another from Dan's "unmentioned" list that is exceptional is Pletnev; thinking of a live set that is tremendous as well as apt, not sure whether it was ever released commercially or whether there's a counterpart. First half of the 200_ decade.

There's no commercial recording, but he played them during the 2004/2005 season, of which there are recordings from Amsterdam, Moscow, Rome, Tokyo and Ludwigsburg. By Sod's law my favorite is the one in worst sound - Tokyo - which I find second only to Kissin's RCA recording of the set.

AG

unread,

May 16, 2017, 3:57:29 AM5/16/17

to

>>>There's no commercial recording, but he played them during the 2004/2005 season, of which there are recordings from Amsterdam, Moscow, Rome, Tokyo and Ludwigsburg. By Sod's law my favorite is the one in worst sound - Tokyo - which I find second only to Kissin's RCA recording of the set.

I'm not the biggest fan of Kissin, but I attended a Charity recital at Wigmore hall in 1998 where he played Op28 (also Op35, much like the RCA disc released at that time). The whole evening was pretty special.

A couple of days later I heard Demidenko (a pianist I invariably much prefer to Kissin) play Op28 also at Wigmore hall....On this particular occasion the comparison to Kissin's Op28 did Demidenko no favours whatsoever; a collection of miniatures as apposed to an organic whole (which to me is always how the Op28 cycle should be played).

AG

christian....@gmail.com

unread,

May 16, 2017, 4:40:12 AM5/16/17

to

Yes, I am of the exact same opinion - on all of the above. Kissin is pretty far down the list for me normally, but he did these very well, and have also surprised in Prokofiev's Op.2#3, Brahms' Paganinis and Chopin's Op.53 for instance. My one recording of ND playing them is from 2001, at which time he was in rapid decline, but they didn't strike me as being among his best work either.

Another pianist I normally dislike but who I think did well in these is Daniil Trifonov.

Steve Emerson

unread,

May 16, 2017, 12:14:33 PM5/16/17

to

I agree that Kissin is occasionally wonderful; in some cases aided greatly by superb recorded sound. The disc with Schumann Kreisleriana is an example of both.

The Pletnev recitals, I've only got one but it is from 2004. Demidenko - is Chopin ever his forte? I've got a disc with the Ballades and third sonata; hard to like notwithstanding technical prowess.

SE.

Bozo

unread,

May 23, 2017, 6:21:35 PM5/23/17

to

Pollini and Perahia at Carnegie last weekend , reviewed by NYT's Tommasini ( " blockbuster " Op.111 from Perahia , "emotion" from Pollini ) :

https://tinyurl.com/lhl2yu3

Herman

unread,

May 24, 2017, 6:11:00 AM5/24/17

to

On Wednesday, May 24, 2017 at 12:21:35 AM UTC+2, Bozo wrote:
> Pollini and Perahia at Carnegie last weekend , reviewed by NYT's Tommasini ( " blockbuster " Op.111 from Perahia , "emotion" from Pollini ) :
>
> https://tinyurl.com/lhl2yu3

The review, particularly the latter half about Pollini, looks like a labor of love. If Pollini's technique is falling short, it's presented as a door opening to more emotion.

Herman

unread,

May 24, 2017, 6:27:43 AM5/24/17

to

This, from an adulatory review of the same recital, on Bachtrack, is another gem:

"Pollini is one of the few performers still truly capable of putting together a recital spanning the realm of music from Beethoven to Schoenberg and Boulez. The pianist’s decision to dedicate his entire program to the music of Chopin, an oeuvre he has been intimately linked with for decades, only increased the appeal of this Sunday afternoon recital."

Things like this make me wonder if these reviewers even go to the extreme sick length of reading their stuff before sending it off, so that they would see their writing doesn't make any sense.

If Pollini is to be praised for putting together Beethoven, Schoenberg and Boulez, how come it's even better when Pollini plays the ultimate safe Chopin program?

AB

unread,

May 24, 2017, 3:05:30 PM5/24/17

to

he would get even more praise if he would retire with his reputation still in tact.

AB

Herman

unread,

May 24, 2017, 3:56:12 PM5/24/17

to

On Wednesday, May 24, 2017 at 9:05:30 PM UTC+2, AB wrote:

>
> he [Pollini] would get even more praise if he would retire with his reputation still in tact.
>
> AB

Aye

dk

unread,

May 25, 2017, 2:23:38 AM5/25/17

to

On Monday, May 15, 2017 at 2:25:48 PM UTC-7, timwill...@gmail.com wrote:

> Op maandag 15 mei 2017 00:42:25 UTC+2 schreef dk:
> > On Sunday, May 14, 2017 at 2:36:52 PM UTC-7, AG wrote:
> > > > I did not "advocate". I merely mentioned.
> > >
> > > BS.
> > > Dan Koren on "Claudio Arthritis":
> > >
> >
> > Misspelling. It's actually "Arrauthritis". ;-)
>

> Stupid and inaccurate comment! You should play Arrau's live
> recording of the Chopin Preludes (1960) to your friends. Just
> listen to nr 16, where he even leaves Argerich in the dust.

That says nothing. Just the perennial rivalry between Chile
and Argentina.

> Nobody can maintain that Arrau was not able to play the piano.

Well he was, but not in interesting ways.

dk

AB

unread,

May 25, 2017, 1:45:17 PM5/25/17

to

and BTW, Argerich's preludes are musiclly awful

AB