Riccardo Muti on CD -- any standouts?
Oscar Williamson
the time in shops around town. I figure there is a reason for this,
ie. little interpretative insight or just plain ordinary. He recorded
for EMI and Philips from the late 70's till mid 90's and, to the best
of my knowledge, has not been recorded much since. Among others, he
has recorded: complete Beethoven, Brahms, Schumann symphony cycles;
with Philadelphia Orchestra, BPO, VPO; and with Gidon Kremer, one of
my favorites violinists. So, what are the standout recordings by
Muti?
Gerard
What comes first to mind: his Tchaikovsky cycle on EMI, as reissued on Brilliant
Classics.
And some Verdi recordings: Requiem, Aida.
wagnerfan
wrote:
I'm more familiar with his opera recordings - I really recommend the
Verdi Macbeth - a wonderful cast and the conducting is really exciting
and dramatic Wagner fan
wanwan
Proko 5 on Philips, Sacre, & Beethoven 7 on EMI all with Philly come
to mind. The Proko Ivan with the Philharmonia on EMI is also
excellent. He also did the Martucci Notturno well.
--------------------
Eric
TareeDawg
I don't find it too hot at all. A barely reasonable starter set, but
alongside others, including Markevitch, Ormandy, Monteaux, Svetlanov,
the Muti is competent at best. Imvho.
Ray Hall, Taree
Dil
All highly seconded -especially the Tchaikovsky, which is probably my
favorite complete cycle (the Manfred is fabulous). His Philadelphia
Beethoven cycle is serviceable but I haven't listened to it in a
while. -Like many a conductor, I find the earlier the recording, the
better in Muti.
Just the other day, I was listening to his La Traviata on vinyl and I
thought it a wonderful performance but somewhat marred by Scotto's
past-her-prime strain. His first Verdi Requiem is one that is often
put nearer the top of recommendable recordings.
Dil.
Mr. Mike
wrote:
>All highly seconded -especially the Tchaikovsky, which is probably my
>favorite complete cycle (the Manfred is fabulous).
Every time ARG does an overview of Tchaikovsky, they slobber over the
Manfred, described as the best available...
Paul Goldstein
Oscar Williamson says...
>
>I know next to nothing about this conductor, but I see used CD's all
>the time in shops around town. I figure there is a reason for this,
>ie. little interpretative insight or just plain ordinary.
So you never see used CDs featuring Furtwangler, Toscanini, Mengelberg, Cortot,
Richter, Mravinsky, Bernstein, Walter, or any other performer with
interpretative insight? That's strange, because I see folks like that all the
time in the used bins, along with Muti, Previn, Karajan, Abbado, Marriner,
Gergiev, et al.
As to Muti, I think your inference is wrong. Muti has been one of the better
conductors on the scene for the last 30+ years. Typically, his recordings are
rhythmically taut, well-paced and superbly played by the great orchestras he has
led. Interpretatively, he is much closer to the Toscanini than the Furtwangler
tradition, though I don't mean to imply that he copies Toscanini in any
discernible way.
Most of his recordings of Russian warhorses, for example, are well worth
whatever modest price they now bring. I think his Sacre and Pictures, for
example, are among the best ever made. His Beethoven cycle is also strong,
though many dislike its balcony-perspective sound. His early recordings with
the Philharmonia Orchestra also deserve attention - there are strong Schumann
and Tchaikovsky cycles among them. And as others have said, his Philharmonia
Manfred is at the top of that particular heap. In choral music, both of his
recordings of the Verdi Requiem are excellent, as is his Carmina Burana.
Gerard
ClassicsToday (Hurwitz) even thinks that the complete cycle is the best
available:
Norman Schwartz
> On Apr 11, 4:25 am, "Gerard" <ghen_nospam_driksenþ@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> Oscar Williamson wrote:
>>> I know next to nothing about this conductor, but I see used CD's all
>>> the time in shops around town. I figure there is a reason for this,
>>> ie. little interpretative insight or just plain ordinary. He
>>> recorded for EMI and Philips from the late 70's till mid 90's and,
>>> to the best of my knowledge, has not been recorded much since.
>>> Among others, he has recorded: complete Beethoven, Brahms, Schumann
>>> symphony cycles; with Philadelphia Orchestra, BPO, VPO; and with
>>> Gidon Kremer, one of my favorites violinists. So, what are the
>>> standout recordings by Muti?
>>
>> What comes first to mind: his Tchaikovsky cycle on EMI, as reissued
>> on Brilliant Classics.
>> And some Verdi recordings: Requiem, Aida
>
> All highly seconded -especially the Tchaikovsky, which is probably my
> favorite complete cycle (the Manfred is fabulous). His Philadelphia
> Beethoven cycle is serviceable but I haven't listened to it in a
> while. -Like many a conductor, I find the earlier the recording, the
> better in Muti.
>
since why else did the NYP get so pissed over his picking Chicago over them.
Phlmaestro
>
>
> Also "like many a conductor" he must be a lot better live than in recording
> since why else did the NYP get so pissed over his picking Chicago over them.
>
That wasn't my experience, but I haven't seen him live in about the
past decade or so. And as I mentioned on another recent thread, rather
than earlier being better, I suspect based on the few broadcasts I've
heard and a live recording that came out a couple years ago that he is
probably a better conductor today than he was back in the 80s and 90s.
The unfortunate thing about that is that he doesn't record like he
used to. But I'm sure the CSO will be releasing live recordings on
their in-house label.
As for his recordings, while on the whole, I agree with
characterizations of his symphonic recordings as well-played, but
uninteresting, there are some exceptions to the rule:
From that Beethoven cycle, the disc with 7 and 8 is a good one. I also
like the 9th, but if you've already got strong middle-of-the-road
recordings of the 9th, his isn't really necessary.
His EMI Symphonie Fantastique is a good one.
The more recent live recording I alluded to above is a Tchaikovsky 6th
with the French orchestra that he's worked with regularly over the
years (I'm drawing a blank on which one it is). I think it's the best
of his three Tchaikovsky 6th recordings and also prefer it from an
interpretive standpoint to the broadcast I heard of him conducting the
6th with the CSO.
The EMI disc with Pictures at an Exhibition and The Rite of Spring,
which are with Philadelphia, but were recorded near the end of
Ormandy's tenure, is another very good one that I've also seen get
recommended a lot over the years.
mark
wrote:
So, what are the standout recordings by
> Muti?
His New Year's Day appearances with the Vienna Phil are also worth
having on DVD.
M forever
> In article <a308266f-1e58-469a-b841-14aff4cfe...@s9g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>,
I can agree with you that Muti is one of the better conductors out
there, he wouldn't have made the kind of career he made if he wasn't.
It's one thing to get hyped by agents and promoters (as so many young
conducting "stars" are now) but another to build a steady career over
decades.
Muti is no doubt a very competent and professional conductor, very
reliable and a good craftsman who has a reputation for always being
well prepared and knowing exactly what he wants in rehearsals.
OTOH, he often isn't really that "interesting" beyond correctly
executed, rhythmically taut and usually sonically polished readings.
That kind of "objective" or "classicist" approach or whatever other
term one might want to use no doubt has its merits, it's better and
more "honest" than gimmicky, showy idiosyncrasies.
But other conductors bring that to the table, too, and more. For
instance, I do not understand what people like about some of his
Beethoven recordings. Definitely a very well executed project, but I
don't see it as really "strong" in any respect. I see it as mostly
mechanical, smoothed over, with no musical "depth" (e.g. inner voices
may or may not be audible under the shiny, polished surface, but are
hardly ever given the attention they deserve, and harmonic
progressions and thematic counterpoints in inner voices are
underexposed most of the time. The playing is very nice, but almost
completely lacks any kind of inflection and character which makes the
music "speak". It's just all really nice, like a nice luxurious
mahogany table.
Other cycles with a similar approach - neither traditionally
"romantic" nor "HIP" -, for instance Wand/NDRSO offer all that, and
more, more character, more musical depth more rhythmical flexibility,
and also a richer yet similarly focused orchestral sound.
Or - what am I missing? What is it that I am not hearing but which you
do and which makes you judge it as "strong"? I am curious about that
because I do kind of like the recordings, too, but can't find the same
enjoyment in them that others like you and Phlmaestro seem to find.
M forever
wrote:
Everything I heard from Muti is very professional, very polished, but
often not very interesting, lacking character and personality. Under
his baton, everything basically sounds the same. What he is seriously
lacking most of the time is lyrical expression and flexibility. I
know, that seems odd and out of character for an Italian musician, but
then those things are just clichés anyway.
There are some recordings though that do really "stand out". You
should definitely get the Schumann cycle if it is the one with the WP
(on Philips). Not that his earlier cycle with the Philarmonia on EMI
is bad at all, but the later one is definitely better and it surprised
me very positively. It is also very well recorded and played, although
that is jut what you expect from the WP.
His Le sacre du printemps is also very good, but BE WARNED that the
first CD releases contain really massive distortion in the loud
passages (especially when the timpani goes wild). This one here is the
only one I know which does not have that distortion:
http://www.amazon.com/Stravinsky-Printemps-Petrushka-Pulcinella-Concertantes/dp/B00005B5NU
Thornhill
wrote:
Verdi: Aida - Philharmonia (EMI)
Berlioz: Symphonie Fantastique - Philadelphia (EMI)
Prokofiev: Symphonies Nos. 1, 3 & 5 - Philadelphia (Philips)
Tchaikovsky: Symphonies -Philharmonia (EMI)
Rimsky-Korsakov: Scheherazade - Philadelphia (EMI)
Scriabin: Symphonies - Philadelphia (EMI)
Stravinsky: Rite of Spring (EMI) -- get the Brilliant Classics release
-- some of the EMI releases are way too bright.
Beethoven: Symphonies Nos. 7 & 9 - Philadelphia (EMI)
Thornhill
>
> His Le sacre du printemps is also very good, but BE WARNED that the
> first CD releases contain really massive distortion in the loud
> passages (especially when the timpani goes wild). This one here is the
> only one I know which does not have that distortion:
>
> http://www.amazon.com/Stravinsky-Printemps-Petrushka-Pulcinella-Conce...
The brilliant classics version is virtually distortion free. That's
the way to go:
http://www.mdt.co.uk/MDTSite/product//8148.htm
Brilliant also includes his Firebird Suite that has been OOP for
years.
CharlesSmith
> ...... And as others have said, his Philharmonia
> Manfred is at the top of that particular heap.
His finale, while taught and rhythmic, is on the square and staid
side. He appears to have missed the "con fuoco" and metronome
markings. Ashkenazy/PO is much better.
Charles
CharlesSmith
> The Proko Ivan with the Philharmonia on EMI is also
> excellent.
Supercharged and stupendous. Would be my choice of Muti "standout
recording".
Charles
TareeDawg
> On Apr 11, 11:56 am, "Norman Schwartz"<n...@optonline.net> wrote:
>>
>>
>> Also "like many a conductor" he must be a lot better live than in recording
>> since why else did the NYP get so pissed over his picking Chicago over them.
>>
>
> That wasn't my experience, but I haven't seen him live in about the
> past decade or so. And as I mentioned on another recent thread, rather
> than earlier being better, I suspect based on the few broadcasts I've
> heard and a live recording that came out a couple years ago that he is
> probably a better conductor today than he was back in the 80s and 90s.
> The unfortunate thing about that is that he doesn't record like he
> used to. But I'm sure the CSO will be releasing live recordings on
> their in-house label.
I heard Muti's Verdi Requiem live at RAH at roughly the same time as the
recording was made, and it was quite a concert. Far better than the
recording, which although isn't bad, doesn't exist on the same plane as
the live performance I heard. Giulini is still my benchmark in this
piece anyway.
Ray Hall, Taree
M forever
> Paul G wrote:
> > As to Muti, I think your inference is wrong. Muti has been one of the better
> > conductors on the scene for the last 30+ years. Typically, his recordings are
> > rhythmically taut, well-paced and superbly played by the great orchestras he has
> > led. Interpretatively, he is much closer to the Toscanini than the Furtwangler
> > tradition, though I don't mean to imply that he copies Toscanini in any
> > discernible way.
>
> the New York Philharmonic that I may get around to listening to
> someday. Can't say if he's conducted my two favorite Bruckner
> symphonies: no. 5 and 9. Have to check Cardinal Berky's site. I'm
> looking forward to a Muti/CSO Bruckner symphony.
>
> Rich
He already conducted the 2nd in Chicago, one of his "specialties",
meaning one of a number of pieces which are neglected but which he
champions. He did that in his recording career, too, and recorded a
number of pieces which are not often done (e.g. the Scriabin
symphonies, Bruckner 6, Prokofieff 3 and the meeting of the Volga and
the Don, Chausson's Poème de l'amour et de la mer).
TareeDawg
> On Apr 11, 4:18 am, Oscar Williamson<oscaredwardwilliam...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>> I know next to nothing about this conductor, but I see used CD's all
>> the time in shops around town. I figure there is a reason for this,
>> ie. little interpretative insight or just plain ordinary. He recorded
>> for EMI and Philips from the late 70's till mid 90's and, to the best
>> of my knowledge, has not been recorded much since. Among others, he
>> has recorded: complete Beethoven, Brahms, Schumann symphony cycles;
>> with Philadelphia Orchestra, BPO, VPO; and with Gidon Kremer, one of
>> my favorites violinists. So, what are the standout recordings by
>> Muti?
>
> Verdi: Aida - Philharmonia (EMI)
> Berlioz: Symphonie Fantastique - Philadelphia (EMI)
> Tchaikovsky: Symphonies -Philharmonia (EMI)
> Rimsky-Korsakov: Scheherazade - Philadelphia (EMI)
> Scriabin: Symphonies - Philadelphia (EMI)
> Stravinsky: Rite of Spring (EMI) -- get the Brilliant Classics release
> -- some of the EMI releases are way too bright.
> Beethoven: Symphonies Nos. 7& 9 - Philadelphia (EMI)
Your list has reminded me that Muti's Scriabin is excellent. My standout
for Muti.
Ray Hall, Taree
number_six
That Prokofiev 5 also has the more seldom-heard Meeting of the Volga
and the Don.
I like Muti's recording of Rota's music from La Strada and Il
Gattopardo.
Ward Hardman
wrote:
> [snip] So, what are the standout recordings by Muti?
In addition to the orchestral suggestions, try the Spontini operas:
- "La Vestal," with La Scala (Sony),
- "Agnese di Hohenstaufen," with Rome Symphony & Chorus
(Opera d' Oro)
--Ward Hardman
"The older I get, the more I admire and crave competence,
just simple competence, in any field from adultery to zoology."
- H.L. Mencken
Sol L. Siegel
4784-95ff-c...@i25g2000yqm.googlegroups.com:
I don't know Muti's recording. He played it well in concert in Philly.
But I agree about Ashkenazy's recording, now available from Australian
Eloquence (at my behest, brag, brag).
--
- Sol L. Siegel, Philadelphia, PA USA
Sol L. Siegel
>>> So, what are the standout recordings by Muti?
>>
>> Verdi: Aida - Philharmonia (EMI)
>> Berlioz: Symphonie Fantastique - Philadelphia (EMI)
>> Prokofiev: Symphonies Nos. 1, 3& 5 - Philadelphia (Philips)
>> Rimsky-Korsakov: Scheherazade - Philadelphia (EMI)
>> Scriabin: Symphonies - Philadelphia (EMI)
>> Stravinsky: Rite of Spring (EMI) -- get the Brilliant Classics
>> release -- some of the EMI releases are way too bright.
>> Beethoven: Symphonies Nos. 7& 9 - Philadelphia (EMI)
I agree with most of this list, especially Aida, the Scriabin, and the
Scriabin Rite. Add the aforementioned Prokofiev Ivan (the Stasevich
version), which has had a few CD releases, most recently 2fers with
Previn's Nevsky.
There was a previous analog Philly Beethoven 7 that I like better (a
Pastoral, too), from the late '70s, but I wouldn't hold my breath for a
CD release. Ditto for an incredible live Nevsky from 1989, or his fine
live Brucker 6 from the late '70s. I still hope in vain for his
Rochberg 6, an exciting, scary ride into the abyss.
M forever
> > I like Muti's recording of Rota's music from La Strada and Il
>
> Yes. I forgot about that one. I think Rota was his teacher. I wonder
> how Muti and Abbado got on?
Apparently not at all. They are often portrayed as antipodes. I don't
think Abbado studied with Rota though (Muti did).
Although I explained that Muti's style is not among my favorites, this
discussion has triggered a craving in me for that burnished mahogany
sound he gets from orchestras, so I put on Ravel's Rapsodie espagnole
and Liszt's Faust symphony - both are actually really good recordings
which an definitely be recommended warmly, too.
Oscar Williamson
>
> Although I explained that Muti's style is not among my favorites, this
> discussion has triggered a craving in me for that burnished mahogany
> sound he gets from orchestras, so I put on Ravel's Rapsodie espagnole
> and Liszt's Faust symphony - both are actually really good recordings
> which an definitely be recommended warmly, too.
Thanks for your comments, and everyone's recommendations. My first
purchase was the Prokofiev Ivan the Terrible, after seeing the film
last year at LA County Museum of Art. The second things I heard were
auditioned at record stores: Beethoven 3 (mechanical), Schubert 5
(flat, lifeless), and Mozart 31 (pretty good). I will have to check
out the Verdi recommendations (Macbeth, Requiem) and maybe the
Schumann Symphonies (Philips) and Stravinsky Rite of Spring. Thanks
again.
On Apr 11, 7:54 am, Paul Goldstein <pgold...@newsguy.com> wrote:
>
> So you never see used CDs featuring Furtwangler, Toscanini, Mengelberg, Cortot,
> Richter, Mravinsky, Bernstein, Walter, or any other performer with
> interpretative insight? That's strange, because I see folks like that all the
> time in the used bins, along with Muti, Previn, Karajan, Abbado, Marriner,
> Gergiev, et al.
For whatever reasons -- youth, ignorance -- I have been led to
believe Muti recordings are nothing special, which is why I started
the thread. Anyone who has been conducting for as long as he has,
with top-rank orchestras and high-profile record contracts, in
addition to a new appointment as Music Director Designate of arguably
the finest US orchestra must be worth hearing. I average two concerts
a month and collect ~20 CD's in same time, but Muti has escaped my
radar. (Well, I know his daughter is very hot http://tiny.cc/xptyg
but that's about it.) Thx for your recommendations.
M forever
<oscaredwardwilliam...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Apr 11, 7:31 pm, M forever <ms1...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > Although I explained that Muti's style is not among my favorites, this
> > discussion has triggered a craving in me for that burnished mahogany
> > sound he gets from orchestras, so I put on Ravel's Rapsodie espagnole
> > and Liszt's Faust symphony - both are actually really good recordings
> > which an definitely be recommended warmly, too.
>
> Thanks for your comments, and everyone's recommendations. My first
> purchase was the Prokofiev Ivan the Terrible, after seeing the film
> last year at LA County Museum of Art. The second things I heard were
> auditioned at record stores: Beethoven 3 (mechanical), Schubert 5
> (flat, lifeless), and Mozart 31 (pretty good). I will have to check
> out the Verdi recommendations (Macbeth, Requiem) and maybe the
> Schumann Symphonies (Philips) and Stravinsky Rite of Spring. Thanks
> again.
Just remember, get the EMI "double forte" edition of Le Sacre because
earlier CD releases have that massive distortion!
> On Apr 11, 7:54 am, Paul Goldstein <pgold...@newsguy.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > So you never see used CDs featuring Furtwangler, Toscanini, Mengelberg, Cortot,
> > Richter, Mravinsky, Bernstein, Walter, or any other performer with
> > interpretative insight? That's strange, because I see folks like that all the
> > time in the used bins, along with Muti, Previn, Karajan, Abbado, Marriner,
> > Gergiev, et al.
>
> For whatever reasons -- youth, ignorance -- I have been led to
> believe Muti recordings are nothing special, which is why I started
> the thread. Anyone who has been conducting for as long as he has,
> with top-rank orchestras and high-profile record contracts, in
> addition to a new appointment as Music Director Designate of arguably
> the finest US orchestra must be worth hearing. I average two concerts
> a month and collect ~20 CD's in same time, but Muti has escaped my
> radar. (Well, I know his daughter is very hothttp://tiny.cc/xptyg
> but that's about it.) Thx for your recommendations.
This discussion was very rewarding for me, too, because it has led me
to reevaluate my opinion of Muti's work, and while I am not his
biggest fan either, I have "rediscovered" some of his recordings that
I have but had mentally filed away as not too interesting to listen to.
CharlesSmith
> Your list has reminded me that Muti's Scriabin is excellent. My standout
> for Muti.
>
> Ray Hall, Taree
The set is available as an Amazon download bargain (£4.39) for anyone
in the UK. Perhaps an error, so be quick.
Thornhill
Sol L. Siegel
efc5f2...@r18g2000yqd.googlegroups.com:
> The Persichetti 5th is worth hearing as well.
Forgot about that. I once heard Giulini do it with the visiting Chicago SO
in one of the best concerts I've ever attended. Not recorded, alas. I
wonder if Don Tait knows of any Giulini performance of it that was.