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Cortot Anniversary Edition - 40 CDs - EMI
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randy...@gmail.com
Aug 11, 2012, 5:55:59 PM8/11/12
to
EMI is releasing a 40 CD Cortot Anniversary Edition in September:
http://tinyurl.com/8frs3k4
Are there enough EMI licensed commercial recordings to fill a 40 CD set, or is it likely this has live recordings or material form other labels? Speculation admittedly. Best just wait until more is known.
If one has virtually no Cortot recordings to speak of, are there enough to-die-for items from EMI to make it a no-brainer? If so, what recordings?
http://tinyurl.com/8frs3k4
Are there enough EMI licensed commercial recordings to fill a 40 CD set, or is it likely this has live recordings or material form other labels? Speculation admittedly. Best just wait until more is known.
If one has virtually no Cortot recordings to speak of, are there enough to-die-for items from EMI to make it a no-brainer? If so, what recordings?
Dufus
Aug 11, 2012, 6:45:18 PM8/11/12
to
>On Aug 11, 4:55 pm, randy.l...@gmail.com wrote:
> If one has virtually no Cortot recordings to speak of, are there enough to-die-for items from EMI to make it a no-brainer? If so, what recordings?
Indeed, After about 1932 ?
> If one has virtually no Cortot recordings to speak of, are there enough to-die-for items from EMI to make it a no-brainer? If so, what recordings?
td
Aug 11, 2012, 7:14:14 PM8/11/12
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recording artist.
TD
td
Aug 11, 2012, 7:16:46 PM8/11/12
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Century, I think we can lay aside the notion that some recordings are
"to die for" and others "to be ignored".
He never made a dull recording right from the very start. He was not a
dull pianist. Not perfect, but not dull.
TD
td
Aug 11, 2012, 7:17:45 PM8/11/12
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Dufus
Aug 11, 2012, 7:27:48 PM8/11/12
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>On Aug 11, 6:16 pm, td <tomdedea...@mac.com> wrote:
>since Cortot has a claim to be the greatest pianist of the 20th
> Century,
Weak claim, indeed.
Dufus
>since Cortot has a claim to be the greatest pianist of the 20th
> Century,
Weak claim, indeed.
Dufus
fees...@gmail.com
Aug 11, 2012, 7:30:50 PM8/11/12
to
Op zondag 12 augustus 2012 01:27:48 UTC+2 schreef Dufus het volgende:
dubious praise indeed! I would call him a "great pianist" , but greater than Rachmaninov, Horowitz, Rubinstein, Arrau, Michelangeli, Richter, Gilels?
TH
>
> Dufus
TH
>
> Dufus
td
Aug 12, 2012, 10:41:18 AM8/12/12
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TD
td
Aug 12, 2012, 10:42:24 AM8/12/12
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breath is Sergei Rachmaninoff.
TD
Dufus
Aug 12, 2012, 11:14:40 AM8/12/12
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>On Aug 12, 9:41 am, td <tomdedea...@mac.com> wrote:
> If so, some of his rivals have made it, and in print.
>
Professional courtesy.
> If so, some of his rivals have made it, and in print.
>
mandryka
Aug 12, 2012, 12:30:38 PM8/12/12
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The Toshiba/EMI set was 13 CDs. I think.
I wonder if they're going to be releasing some new material here.
Beethoven sonatas. Chopin mazurkas. Schumann sonatas. You know the
sort of thing.
randy...@gmail.com
Aug 12, 2012, 12:45:08 PM8/12/12
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David Fox
Aug 14, 2012, 12:59:22 AM8/14/12
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those recordings if they're ever released. Part of me is curious and
part of me knows they'll be mostly horrible. If not they would have been
released long ago.
I listened to his Master Class recordings. The examples he plays are
pretty abysmal. When he teaches the pieces he recorded in the 1920's or
1930's, the passages he demonstrates pale compared to his earlier
recordings. I'm not just talking about pure technique or mechanism.
His command was so lacking that he could no longer reliably convey
musical expression. His lectures are fascinating but his playing
examples convey little or nothing of the great Alfred Cortot.
DF
mandryka
Aug 14, 2012, 2:48:22 AM8/14/12
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ages ago. They're not so hood, but the recording includes a Polonaise
Fantasie from the same period which is much more successful.
Also Cortot recorded Chopin's complete polonaises, scherzos,
ecosaisses, impromptus, ballades and third sonata during the war
(1942/1943) It would be good if this material was included in this new
set.
Saint Russell
Aug 14, 2012, 5:30:23 PM8/14/12
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On Saturday, August 11, 2012 5:55:59 PM UTC-4, randy...@gmail.com wrote:
> EMI is releasing a 40 CD Cortot Anniversary Edition in September:
>
>
>
> http://tinyurl.com/8frs3k4
>
>
>
> Are there enough EMI licensed commercial recordings to fill a 40 CD set, or is it likely this has live recordings or material form other labels? Speculation admittedly. Best just wait until more is known.
>
Nearly all his commercial recordings are for EMI. Biddulph reissued the American Victors, and Victor Japan has reissued the ones he did for them in 1952.
> EMI is releasing a 40 CD Cortot Anniversary Edition in September:
>
>
>
> http://tinyurl.com/8frs3k4
>
>
>
> Are there enough EMI licensed commercial recordings to fill a 40 CD set, or is it likely this has live recordings or material form other labels? Speculation admittedly. Best just wait until more is known.
>
40 CDs is not out of the question as there's a good deal of duplication among the issued records. Cortot kept returning to the Chopin preludes, waltzes, ballades, sonatas, the big Schumann pieces, etc. Of course it would be great to hear new repertoire, such as the Beethoven sonata cycle. A test pressing exists of Petrouchka (Danse russe) and who knows if the unissued Gaspard is still in the vaults. Maybe even the Chopin mazurkas, which he did record, even if the set issued by Con Artist is more likely Hatto's work.
td
Aug 31, 2012, 8:46:15 PM8/31/12
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The most recent Diapason has several pages devoted to the Cortot complete edition.
The duplicates will all be there, and the triplicates. They will use all available sources, including Japanese Toshiba transfers where available.
The set will come in November. It was produced by Bertrand Castellani, current head of exploitation at EMI France. Most of the originals are housed in Hayes and Saint-Ouen l'Aumône, but not all sources are exploitable, so all sources have been used. I would imagine that his former colleague Rémi Jacobs has also had a hand in this job.
40 CDs in all. And not before time, I would say.
TD
The duplicates will all be there, and the triplicates. They will use all available sources, including Japanese Toshiba transfers where available.
The set will come in November. It was produced by Bertrand Castellani, current head of exploitation at EMI France. Most of the originals are housed in Hayes and Saint-Ouen l'Aumône, but not all sources are exploitable, so all sources have been used. I would imagine that his former colleague Rémi Jacobs has also had a hand in this job.
40 CDs in all. And not before time, I would say.
TD
ec38...@gmail.com
Sep 1, 2012, 7:39:13 AM9/1/12
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Alex
PS: my copy of Diapason normally reaches Athens the 10th day of each month (for the past 22 years).
George
Sep 1, 2012, 11:10:36 AM9/1/12
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Is there any mention in there about whether or not EMI will be releasing anything new (new performances or repertoire by Cortot) in this box?
George
Mark S
Sep 1, 2012, 2:12:48 PM9/1/12
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his being thick as thieves with the Vichy government seldom if ever
gets raised in conversation these days, while such mention seems de
rigeur for artists like Karajan, Böhm and Schwarzkopf (Cortot served
as Vichy's High Commissioner of the Fine Arts)? Is it because he isn't
German?
Cortot was severely ostracized in France after the war, declared
"persona non grata" in fact. Has his reputation been rehabilitated in
France these days? Is there an objective book/article available that
discusses Cortot during the war years?
Dufus
Sep 1, 2012, 4:40:28 PM9/1/12
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>On Sep 1, 1:12 pm, Mark S <markstenr...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>Is there an objective book/article available that
> discusses Cortot during the war years?
Perhaps :
>Is there an objective book/article available that
> discusses Cortot during the war years?
http://www.ronslate.com/shameful_peace_how_french_artists_and_intellectuals_survived_nazi_occupation_frederic_spotts_yale
http://holocaustmusic.ort.org/musicians-in-exile/french-resistance/alfred-cortot/
http://www.boston.com/news/globe/living/articles/2002/09/19/the_real_charles_munch/
Dontait...@aol.com
Sep 1, 2012, 7:04:18 PM9/1/12
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decades. He was an extraordinary, unique artist. I must buy this set.
To support the market for issuing it, too. Thanks for the news about
it.
Don Tait
td
Sep 2, 2012, 5:55:29 AM9/2/12
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It is very vague about the actual specific contents.
TD
TD
td
Sep 2, 2012, 6:03:27 AM9/2/12
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His reputation as a pianist has NEVER been in question. He played in France right till the end, alas, as his playing deteriorated.
I have never heard in fact that he was ostracized. Courted, yes, particularly as a teacher. He had many pupils, of course.
What is true is that people like Alan Evans are still denigrating him, ostensibly for his playing, but actually because there is a photo of him at the Ritz with some Nazi figure during the war. I guess he wants not to hear how fabulously he played. Silly man!
I predict that this edition will be enormously successful and not only in France, but also in Japan where he is worshipped. For his playing.
TD
TD
I have never heard in fact that he was ostracized. Courted, yes, particularly as a teacher. He had many pupils, of course.
What is true is that people like Alan Evans are still denigrating him, ostensibly for his playing, but actually because there is a photo of him at the Ritz with some Nazi figure during the war. I guess he wants not to hear how fabulously he played. Silly man!
I predict that this edition will be enormously successful and not only in France, but also in Japan where he is worshipped. For his playing.
TD
TD
AG
Sep 2, 2012, 7:08:42 AM9/2/12
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Not that i am complaining of course, but i had rather been hoping that
as and when we were to see a large Cortot box set it would have been
of the same "series" and by the same team that gave us Cziffra, Meyer,
Nat, Francois, Ciccolini etc; that way we would have known in advance
that it would be an A1 product with top quality new transfers etc. I
sincerely hope we will not be disappointed for there were none more
mesmeric than Cortot when he was on form.
AG
as and when we were to see a large Cortot box set it would have been
of the same "series" and by the same team that gave us Cziffra, Meyer,
Nat, Francois, Ciccolini etc; that way we would have known in advance
that it would be an A1 product with top quality new transfers etc. I
sincerely hope we will not be disappointed for there were none more
mesmeric than Cortot when he was on form.
AG
Allan Evans
Sep 2, 2012, 7:51:45 AM9/2/12
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emptyheaded society lady with a grinning Cortot was Mrs. Albert Speer,
her hubby the photgrapher. They were close friends and Speer's prison
diaries recall those lovely evenings at Cortot's where he plied them
with Chopin and Debussy. Nice friendship.
AE
Allan Evans
Sep 2, 2012, 7:54:40 AM9/2/12
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On Sep 1, 4:40 pm, Dufus <steveha...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >On Sep 1, 1:12 pm, Mark S <markstenr...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >Is there an objective book/article available that
> > discusses Cortot during the war years?
>
> Perhaps :
>
> http://www.ronslate.com/shameful_peace_how_french_artists_and_intelle...
> >On Sep 1, 1:12 pm, Mark S <markstenr...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >Is there an objective book/article available that
> > discusses Cortot during the war years?
>
> Perhaps :
>
>
> http://holocaustmusic.ort.org/musicians-in-exile/french-resistance/al...
>
> http://www.boston.com/news/globe/living/articles/2002/09/19/the_real_...
On Cortot, from the liner notes to Masters of French Pianism, Arbiter
150:
"The Second World War took a terrible toll on Lazare-Lévy and his
family. As a Jew in occupied France, his life was held in balance yet
he survived only through constant movement and vigilance, hiding,
adopting aliases and using false papers. The Conservatoire position
he'd held was nevertheless given to Marcel Ciampi and Lazare-Lévy
never recovered it. He tried in vain to emigrate to the United States.
His youngest son, Phillipe, a prominent resistance fighter, was
betrayed to the Gestapo by two French Nazi collaborators, captured,
then transferred to the Drancy concentration camp where he was
recognised as a Jew and tortured by SS officer Aloïs Brunner. It
should be noted that in spite of repeated distress calls, Cortot, who
held a high position in the pro-Nazi Vichy Government as Minister of
Culture, absolutely refused to help either Lazare-Lévy or his captured
son, who died in Auschwitz along with 17 or 19 members of their
family. As his 91 year-old niece recalls, Lazare-Lévy went to Cortot's
home in Neuilly, entering the Occupied Zone with false papers. Cortot
said to Lazare-Lévy: "Qu'est-ce que tu veux que j'y fasse ?!! Ce sont
des choses qui arrivent." ["What do you want me to do?! These things
happen."] Then he slammed the door in Lazare-Lévy's face, this after
more than forty years of what Lazare-Lévy believed to be friendship."
Allan Evans
Sep 2, 2012, 7:56:51 AM9/2/12
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and having to pretend that they are hearing great insightful art from
a master. The way he captures the essence of a work is also a
limitation: students should arrive at this on their own rather than
receive ready-made crutches.
AE
AG
Sep 2, 2012, 8:27:12 AM9/2/12
to
Each to their own of course, Allan, but speaking personally although
the biographical details of a performing artist are of some interest
to me, they are but a passing interest..... most people to a greater
or lesser degree have "skeletons" in their closet..... it may well be
that Cortot behaved (to my own mind) appallingly in many situations
during his long life, but i listen to his musical performances because
he was a great musician, not because he was a great/bad/2nd rate human
being. They same goes for Gieseking (lots of rumoured skeletons) and a
particular favourite of mine Elly Ney. I can appreciate that you
yourself feel particularly driven to "expose" a number of pianists in
various aspects of their pianism and or personal histories, but do not
forget that many people listen to classical music to escape from the
realities of the world around them and to that end all that invariably
matters is the music.
AG
the biographical details of a performing artist are of some interest
to me, they are but a passing interest..... most people to a greater
or lesser degree have "skeletons" in their closet..... it may well be
that Cortot behaved (to my own mind) appallingly in many situations
during his long life, but i listen to his musical performances because
he was a great musician, not because he was a great/bad/2nd rate human
being. They same goes for Gieseking (lots of rumoured skeletons) and a
particular favourite of mine Elly Ney. I can appreciate that you
yourself feel particularly driven to "expose" a number of pianists in
various aspects of their pianism and or personal histories, but do not
forget that many people listen to classical music to escape from the
realities of the world around them and to that end all that invariably
matters is the music.
AG
Dufus
Sep 2, 2012, 9:51:38 AM9/2/12
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>On Sep 2, 7:27 am, AG <andrewgrims...@gmail.com> wrote:
For me , the sloppy technique throughout Cortot's career undermines
his musical achievements. Schnabel also is due criticism for the same
carelessness, but for me Schnabel provided greater insights into the
music he chose to play than does Cortot into his choices. Whether or
not Cortot, as a Swiss, could have spent the War in Switzerland, as
many Nazi opponents did ; and not withstanding the difficulties of the
era ; Cortot's diligence in the performance of his Vichy duties is
deeply troubling and cannot be ignored by focusing on his pianism
alone. If Himmler had been the leading virtuoso of the day before
assuming his Nazi role, would we be less critical of Himmler , still
willing to hear his cd's , pay him royalties ? If there ever was a
true division between art and politics, between the artist and the
man, the Nazi experience should teach how evil can thrive in, and
exploit, such a division.
Dufus
For me , the sloppy technique throughout Cortot's career undermines
his musical achievements. Schnabel also is due criticism for the same
carelessness, but for me Schnabel provided greater insights into the
music he chose to play than does Cortot into his choices. Whether or
not Cortot, as a Swiss, could have spent the War in Switzerland, as
many Nazi opponents did ; and not withstanding the difficulties of the
era ; Cortot's diligence in the performance of his Vichy duties is
deeply troubling and cannot be ignored by focusing on his pianism
alone. If Himmler had been the leading virtuoso of the day before
assuming his Nazi role, would we be less critical of Himmler , still
willing to hear his cd's , pay him royalties ? If there ever was a
true division between art and politics, between the artist and the
man, the Nazi experience should teach how evil can thrive in, and
exploit, such a division.
Dufus
AG
Sep 2, 2012, 10:30:30 AM9/2/12
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Cortot's diligence in the performance of his Vichy duties is
> deeply troubling and cannot be ignored by focusing on his pianism
> alone.
That is your opinion and of course you are entitled to it; nonetheless
> deeply troubling and cannot be ignored by focusing on his pianism
> alone.
it remains an opinion, nothing more, nothing less.
As an aside none of the evidence with regard to these artists is so
compelling or damning as to stop multinational music companies
publishing their recordings in multitudinous editions over the years.
If the majority felt as you do i suspect their would be no business
incentive to publish and sell.
AG
Dufus
Sep 2, 2012, 12:26:43 PM9/2/12
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>On Sep 2, 9:30 am, AG <andrewgrims...@gmail.com> wrote:
> As an aside none of the evidence with regard to these artists is so
> compelling or damning as to stop multinational music companies
> publishing their recordings in multitudinous editions over the years.
> If the majority felt as you do i suspect their would be no business
> incentive to publish and sell.
>
I agree, the historical record does not permit a conclusion free of
> As an aside none of the evidence with regard to these artists is so
> compelling or damning as to stop multinational music companies
> publishing their recordings in multitudinous editions over the years.
> If the majority felt as you do i suspect their would be no business
> incentive to publish and sell.
>
doubt ; nor does exalted muscianship warrant ignoring what record does
exist. Cortot's Conservatoire student Perlemuter was not photographed
yucking it up with the Speers. To what extent the business judgments
of multinational music companies are informed by a code of ethics is a
matter on which the historical record may speak more clearly, I
suggest.
Mark S
Sep 2, 2012, 1:55:37 PM9/2/12
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On Sep 2, 6:51 am, Dufus <steveha...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >On Sep 2, 7:27 am, AG <andrewgrims...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> For me , the sloppy technique throughout Cortot's career undermines
> his musical achievements. Schnabel also is due criticism for the same
> carelessness.
> >On Sep 2, 7:27 am, AG <andrewgrims...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> For me , the sloppy technique throughout Cortot's career undermines
> his musical achievements. Schnabel also is due criticism for the same
I have to agree on both accounts.
It's a strange phenomenon that for some artists, having a sloppy
technique and missing a lot of notes - even in studio recordings - is
regarded by a portion of the cognoscenti as an indication that they
possess superior musicality, and that this artistry is revealed almost
through the missed notes, or perhaps, in spite of them. There's a
similar phenomenon that attaches itself to singers, ie: that a small-
voiced singer is somehow (almost automatically) more musical than a
large-voiced singer simply by virtue of the meanness of their voice.
The large-voiced singer is, of course, always some version of the bull
in the china shop.
With pianists, we constantly hear that those who are technically
proficient are somehow (again, almost automatically) not expressive;
that technical proficiency equates to robotic, soulless playing; that
pianists who leave a lot of notes on the floor do so because they are
SO artistic that missing notes is just part of the territory that
comes with being a true artist.
Rostropovich once opined that there are two sides to every musician:
the technically proficient and the expressive, and that for better or
worse, the expressive side of the musician is always at the mercy of
the technical proficiency of the musician.
I find myself in agreement with that thought.
Mark S
Sep 2, 2012, 2:03:58 PM9/2/12
to
point. He was, in fact, Hitler's right-hand man, responsible - among
other things - for consigning untold thousands to death by slave
labor. He was considered by many to be the natural successor to Hitler
had the Reich endured.
Herman
Sep 2, 2012, 2:05:07 PM9/2/12
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Nay, I will buy you two of those, since they come for free at the Concertgebouw, with the price of admission.
Dufus
Sep 2, 2012, 2:28:11 PM9/2/12
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>On Sep 2, 1:05 pm, Herman <her...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Nay, I will buy you two of those, since they come for free at the Concertgebouw, with the price of admission.
You have just raised further my admiration for the Dutch !! In
> Nay, I will buy you two of those, since they come for free at the Concertgebouw, with the price of admission.
fairness, I should warn you I was last at the Concertgebouw in Winter,
1970, so I am overdue ; and I usually have more than 2 glasses.
Dufus
td
Sep 2, 2012, 4:19:29 PM9/2/12
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There is no reason to feel that the same "team" has not worked on this set. BC worked for several years under RJ at EMI France fefore RJ's retirement.
TD
TD
td
Sep 2, 2012, 4:20:09 PM9/2/12
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Bullshit.
TD
TD
td
Sep 2, 2012, 4:33:13 PM9/2/12
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These so-called arguments are so very much more persuasive when quoted from a text by the poster himself. A kind of exercise in literary onanism.
And this comes from someone who has had the courage and bad taste to publish the pathetic efforts of a has-bern never-was piano teacher in some Arizona desert recorded in her lving room on a vintage Wollensak machine and scream genius all the way.
It is, of course, pathetic in every dimension
Suzie Glutz at the keyboard. Alfred Cortot eat your heart out.
Not.
TD.
And this comes from someone who has had the courage and bad taste to publish the pathetic efforts of a has-bern never-was piano teacher in some Arizona desert recorded in her lving room on a vintage Wollensak machine and scream genius all the way.
It is, of course, pathetic in every dimension
Suzie Glutz at the keyboard. Alfred Cortot eat your heart out.
Not.
TD.
Herman
Sep 2, 2012, 4:48:46 PM9/2/12
to
Le dimanche 2 septembre 2012 20:28:11 UTC+2, Dufus a écrit :
>
> You have just raised further my admiration for the Dutch !! In
>
> fairness, I should warn you I was last at the Concertgebouw in Winter,
>
> 1970, so I am overdue ;
I was fully aware of this...
>
> You have just raised further my admiration for the Dutch !! In
>
> fairness, I should warn you I was last at the Concertgebouw in Winter,
>
> 1970, so I am overdue ;
and I usually have more than 2 glasses.
>
td
Sep 2, 2012, 4:49:06 PM9/2/12
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Someone once said in a moment of revelation about Cortot and his wrong notes that corto had to have had a transcendental technique to play those wrong notes that way. I love the paradox inherent in the statement, Mark.
Today we have a lot of right notes and not a lot of music. And we have nobody at the level of sheer inspiration of Cortot in his prime.
As Murray Perahia, who can on occasion rise to similar hights of expressivity, says in the new issue of Diapason:
"Cortot was a generous musician and an absolutely unique voice in music. He played like no other pianist and carved for himself his own interpretations through his romantic personality and his deep feelings. He remains without a shadow of a doubt one of the greatest pianists who has ever lived."
Perahia regards Cortot "as a kind of ideal, of how I would like to play. I want to keep every note he played. His masterclasses were also fascinating, how much common sense in what he had to say."
TD
Today we have a lot of right notes and not a lot of music. And we have nobody at the level of sheer inspiration of Cortot in his prime.
As Murray Perahia, who can on occasion rise to similar hights of expressivity, says in the new issue of Diapason:
"Cortot was a generous musician and an absolutely unique voice in music. He played like no other pianist and carved for himself his own interpretations through his romantic personality and his deep feelings. He remains without a shadow of a doubt one of the greatest pianists who has ever lived."
Perahia regards Cortot "as a kind of ideal, of how I would like to play. I want to keep every note he played. His masterclasses were also fascinating, how much common sense in what he had to say."
TD
Dufus
Sep 2, 2012, 6:13:00 PM9/2/12
to
>On Sep 2, 3:33 pm, td <tomdedea...@mac.com> wrote:
> And this comes from someone who has had the courage and bad taste to publish the pathetic efforts of a has-bern never-was piano teacher in some Arizona desert recorded in her lving room on a >vintage Wollensak machine and scream genius all the way. It is, of course, pathetic in every dimension
>
Your outrageous and inaccurate comments about Iren Marik would
> And this comes from someone who has had the courage and bad taste to publish the pathetic efforts of a has-bern never-was piano teacher in some Arizona desert recorded in her lving room on a >vintage Wollensak machine and scream genius all the way. It is, of course, pathetic in every dimension
>
embarrass even Cortot.
From the Arbiter Records liner notes about Marik :
"Then came the interruptions of the war. Miss Marik gave up her
profession and went home, where her duty lay, to her country and her
family. There followed a time of fear, suffering, lack of food,
complete cessation of the exercise of her profession as a pianist,
constant helpless anxiety for the lives of people around her, to whom
the presence of the enemy meant danger, humiliation, among horrible
sights and sounds. I heard her once say ruefully, looking at her
hands, that scrubbing laundry for the Russian soldiers 'did not do
much to help the fingers to play Bach.' "
No Ritz Hotel.
AG
Sep 2, 2012, 8:20:18 PM9/2/12
to
> > Not that i am complaining of course, but i had rather been hoping that
> > as and when we were to see a large Cortot box set it would have been
> > of the same "series" and by the same team that gave us Cziffra, Meyer,
> > Nat, Francois, Ciccolini etc; that way we would have known in advance
> > that it would be an A1 product with top quality new transfers etc. I
> > sincerely hope we will not be disappointed for there were none more
> > mesmeric than Cortot when he was on form.
>
> mastered by L'Art du Son, etc.?
Well, it may well be by the same people, but the picture of the Cortot
box set as seen on amazon is a different layout to the others i refer
to, which all followed a similar pattern..... plus it says
"Anniversary Edition" as apposed to the french "Ses Enregistrements"
or "L'Integrale"...... maybe i am over analysing..... we shall see and
hope either way it is excellent.
AG
td
Sep 2, 2012, 9:16:51 PM9/2/12
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TD
td
Sep 2, 2012, 9:20:30 PM9/2/12
to
all here.
The proof of the pudding is, as they say, in the eating, of course.
But as I know those involved personally, I have no doubt we shall be
very pleased with the results.
The nay-sayers and "transfer engineers" will weigh in, naturally,
particularly those bent on distorting the original sound produced on
78 RPM recordings with various pseudostereo manipulations. For me as
long as the recordings are transferred at the right pitch, the joins
neat and the music still audible I will be perfectly content.
TD
Allan Evans
Sep 3, 2012, 7:26:47 AM9/3/12
to
AG:
Gladly agree to disagree with you. The biographical details mean
nothing when the music is great but your three examples exhibit what I
perceive as a sonic fascism. Cortot's best is chamber music, as he had
to have an interplay with one or two other great masters such as
Casals and Thibaud. As a soloist he went through two phases. The
first, lasting up until the mid 1840s, was to set in relief the main
hook of a piece, it's theme, rhythm, something that makes it
prominent. The rest is a Monet blurred background, which regiments his
projected desire at the expense of the music's inner life. His step-
son Jean told me that the idea of his practicing little due to
overextended activity was a cover for his difficulties with aging. I
prefer his post 1947 recordings as they lose that sleek veneer to
become craggy and explore more of the music out of a physical
necessity. They are far more engaging, like a rugged Romanesque
stature over an Erté sleekness. An opium addict and Nazi, he rests low
on the human scale. As a teacher many of his best pupils sound like
him at times,such as Tagliaferro playing Carnaval in her late
eighties, an imitation rather than results of musical guidance.
Gieseking: I used to think the music was so complicated that I
couldn't follow everything he played. Now I realize that he was the
one not focusing, shifting from moments of involvement into auto
pilot. This afflicts his playing from Day One till death, only waking
up some times on stage. He was apathetic politically but knew where
his bread was buttered.
Ney: Humorless dolt who could only play Beethoven seriously. Beethoven
kept a chamber pot under his piano and had he heard he, he would have
emptied the contents on her wig-mop. Her brand of Fascism was to strip
anything from music other than what could be projected as worshipful
subservience: sacrificing the human element for SOMETHING GREATER. I
like Maurizio Kagel's view of her: hope you'll check this out:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_-KoEofNim4
In the end, the music, the poor music, gets treated shabbily, either
on purpose or obtusely by these three.
Allan
Gladly agree to disagree with you. The biographical details mean
nothing when the music is great but your three examples exhibit what I
perceive as a sonic fascism. Cortot's best is chamber music, as he had
to have an interplay with one or two other great masters such as
Casals and Thibaud. As a soloist he went through two phases. The
first, lasting up until the mid 1840s, was to set in relief the main
hook of a piece, it's theme, rhythm, something that makes it
prominent. The rest is a Monet blurred background, which regiments his
projected desire at the expense of the music's inner life. His step-
son Jean told me that the idea of his practicing little due to
overextended activity was a cover for his difficulties with aging. I
prefer his post 1947 recordings as they lose that sleek veneer to
become craggy and explore more of the music out of a physical
necessity. They are far more engaging, like a rugged Romanesque
stature over an Erté sleekness. An opium addict and Nazi, he rests low
on the human scale. As a teacher many of his best pupils sound like
him at times,such as Tagliaferro playing Carnaval in her late
eighties, an imitation rather than results of musical guidance.
Gieseking: I used to think the music was so complicated that I
couldn't follow everything he played. Now I realize that he was the
one not focusing, shifting from moments of involvement into auto
pilot. This afflicts his playing from Day One till death, only waking
up some times on stage. He was apathetic politically but knew where
his bread was buttered.
Ney: Humorless dolt who could only play Beethoven seriously. Beethoven
kept a chamber pot under his piano and had he heard he, he would have
emptied the contents on her wig-mop. Her brand of Fascism was to strip
anything from music other than what could be projected as worshipful
subservience: sacrificing the human element for SOMETHING GREATER. I
like Maurizio Kagel's view of her: hope you'll check this out:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_-KoEofNim4
In the end, the music, the poor music, gets treated shabbily, either
on purpose or obtusely by these three.
Allan
Allan Evans
Sep 3, 2012, 7:33:40 AM9/3/12
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Cortot is said to have given lists of Jewish students to the Gestapo.
Allan Evans
Sep 3, 2012, 7:34:31 AM9/3/12
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The lower the quality, the higher the sales.
Allan Evans
Sep 3, 2012, 7:35:25 AM9/3/12
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the Gestapo, and Cortot who of course, could do nothing. Perlemuter
avoided Cortot after the war.
Allan Evans
Sep 3, 2012, 7:42:10 AM9/3/12
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Tom, you're a product man. That excludes a profound sense of music.
The artists omitted from your Great Pianists of the Century series are
a true honor roll of musicians, most of the far worthier of being
known and experienced. Probably your superiors' back catalog in your
ex-company needed movement and there we go!
I needn't take much notice of how you hear Marik making music. Under
your ears Moiseiwitsch was published as Paderewski in a Liszt work
(OK, they had the same teacher, but that's where any resemblance ends)
and did a splendid job of leaking unissued Cortot from a studio
session reel-to-reel (Kreisleriana 1954) which was immediately
withdrawn once I noticed it and replaced with his antiseptic 78rpm
product. No difference in sound, let alone performance?
At their first meeting, Bartók heard Marik play his music and
immediately commented "I see you understand it. Let's go instead on to
Bach and Beethoven."
AE
The artists omitted from your Great Pianists of the Century series are
a true honor roll of musicians, most of the far worthier of being
known and experienced. Probably your superiors' back catalog in your
ex-company needed movement and there we go!
I needn't take much notice of how you hear Marik making music. Under
your ears Moiseiwitsch was published as Paderewski in a Liszt work
(OK, they had the same teacher, but that's where any resemblance ends)
and did a splendid job of leaking unissued Cortot from a studio
session reel-to-reel (Kreisleriana 1954) which was immediately
withdrawn once I noticed it and replaced with his antiseptic 78rpm
product. No difference in sound, let alone performance?
At their first meeting, Bartók heard Marik play his music and
immediately commented "I see you understand it. Let's go instead on to
Bach and Beethoven."
AE
Allan Evans
Sep 3, 2012, 7:47:01 AM9/3/12
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Indifferent transfers kill music in order to protect listeners from
surface noise; the details cannot be heard. Fine for someone who likes
background taxidermy but my students go wild when they hear the life
come out in full force and cancel time. That's why they despised
commercial transfers for decades. Now they can hear what's really
happening and develop the ability to hear with other ears.
Overcleaning shellacs is just as bad as the pseudostereo gimmicry. You
cannot depend on the industry to conserve culture.
AE
surface noise; the details cannot be heard. Fine for someone who likes
background taxidermy but my students go wild when they hear the life
come out in full force and cancel time. That's why they despised
commercial transfers for decades. Now they can hear what's really
happening and develop the ability to hear with other ears.
Overcleaning shellacs is just as bad as the pseudostereo gimmicry. You
cannot depend on the industry to conserve culture.
AE
Allan Evans
Sep 3, 2012, 7:48:27 AM9/3/12
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td
Sep 3, 2012, 1:41:02 PM9/3/12
to
I should hope so. That's what is on offer. Or do you give products
away?
> That excludes a profound sense of music.
Your opinion, and you're quite entitled to it.
> The artists omitted from your Great Pianists of the Century series are
> a true honor roll of musicians, most of the far worthier of being
> known and experienced. Probably your superiors' back catalog in your
> ex-company needed movement and there we go!
Nope. If they weren't there, I didn't put them there.
Your opinion of the worth of these unnamed musicians is what it is, an
opinion.
> I needn't take much notice of how you hear Marik making music.
Of course not. You would be far better to investigate her ethnic
background.
> Under
> your ears Moiseiwitsch was published as Paderewski in a Liszt work
> (OK, they had the same teacher, but that's where any resemblance ends)
> and did a splendid job of leaking unissued Cortot from a studio
> session reel-to-reel (Kreisleriana 1954) which was immediately
> withdrawn once I noticed it and replaced with his antiseptic 78rpm
> product. No difference in sound, let alone performance?
Both snaffoos stemmed from EMI, whose vast archive seemed to have
confused those required to make the tapes, which were officially
licensed from the company.
Typical that you would focus on such small errors, rather than on the
music. No wonder you dredged Marik out of the Arizona desert.
> At their first meeting, Bartók heard Marik play his music and
> immediately commented "I see you understand it. Let's go instead on to
> Bach and Beethoven."
You were there?
Interesting.
Now you would appear to be channelling Bartok. There seems to be no
end to your abilities. First you use your own quotes to back up your
own statements, now you're channelling Bartok ro buttress your
opinions of this piano teacher.
As I said, pathetic. Musical archeology.
TD
away?
> That excludes a profound sense of music.
> The artists omitted from your Great Pianists of the Century series are
> a true honor roll of musicians, most of the far worthier of being
> known and experienced. Probably your superiors' back catalog in your
> ex-company needed movement and there we go!
Your opinion of the worth of these unnamed musicians is what it is, an
opinion.
> I needn't take much notice of how you hear Marik making music.
background.
> Under
> your ears Moiseiwitsch was published as Paderewski in a Liszt work
> (OK, they had the same teacher, but that's where any resemblance ends)
> and did a splendid job of leaking unissued Cortot from a studio
> session reel-to-reel (Kreisleriana 1954) which was immediately
> withdrawn once I noticed it and replaced with his antiseptic 78rpm
> product. No difference in sound, let alone performance?
confused those required to make the tapes, which were officially
licensed from the company.
Typical that you would focus on such small errors, rather than on the
music. No wonder you dredged Marik out of the Arizona desert.
> At their first meeting, Bartók heard Marik play his music and
> immediately commented "I see you understand it. Let's go instead on to
> Bach and Beethoven."
Interesting.
Now you would appear to be channelling Bartok. There seems to be no
end to your abilities. First you use your own quotes to back up your
own statements, now you're channelling Bartok ro buttress your
opinions of this piano teacher.
As I said, pathetic. Musical archeology.
TD
Allan Evans
Sep 3, 2012, 2:06:36 PM9/3/12
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Marik, Tiegerman, Horszowski, and so many more have to be saved from
an industry rife with your mentality. Of course you can't accept
Marik' playing: pearls before swine.
Your work as a producer was sub-standard in taste and accuracy. I
would never have engaged you.
an industry rife with your mentality. Of course you can't accept
Marik' playing: pearls before swine.
Your work as a producer was sub-standard in taste and accuracy. I
would never have engaged you.
wagnerfan
Sep 3, 2012, 2:35:07 PM9/3/12
to
On Mon, 3 Sep 2012 11:06:36 -0700 (PDT), Allan Evans
<dis...@gmail.com> wrote:
>Marik, Tiegerman, Horszowski, and so many more have to be saved from
>an industry rife with your mentality. Of course you can't accept
>Marik' playing: pearls before swine.
>
>Your work as a producer was sub-standard in taste and accuracy. I
>would never have engaged you.
>
You are aware I suppose that one of the pieces Leakin' Deacon picked
<dis...@gmail.com> wrote:
>Marik, Tiegerman, Horszowski, and so many more have to be saved from
>an industry rife with your mentality. Of course you can't accept
>Marik' playing: pearls before swine.
>
>Your work as a producer was sub-standard in taste and accuracy. I
>would never have engaged you.
>
for the project was by the wrong pianist. On the Paderewski set, the
performance of Liszt's La Leggierezza, is not actually by Paderewski.
Instead,Deacon has included the performance by Benno Moiseiwitsch
(which is also in their Moiseiwitsch volume).
Check some of the amazon reviews esp. by a very astute writer named
Hank Drake who discusses the many flaws in the set. He knows of what
he speaks. Wagner fan
td
Sep 3, 2012, 3:03:25 PM9/3/12
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It is an entirely laughable concept that I am responsible for the survival of the pianists mentioned.
If you want to assist them as their names sink further into musical oblivion, this is your right, of course.
TD
If you want to assist them as their names sink further into musical oblivion, this is your right, of course.
TD
td
Sep 3, 2012, 3:05:33 PM9/3/12
to
Only an idiot would have to consult Hank Drake (????) to be aware of these errors.
But of course we know full well you qualify fully, Dickie.
TD
But of course we know full well you qualify fully, Dickie.
TD
Steve de Mena
Sep 4, 2012, 12:51:02 AM9/4/12
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On 9/3/12 11:35 AM, wagnerfan wrote:
> On Mon, 3 Sep 2012 11:06:36 -0700 (PDT), Allan Evans
> <dis...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Marik, Tiegerman, Horszowski, and so many more have to be saved from
>> an industry rife with your mentality. Of course you can't accept
>> Marik' playing: pearls before swine.
>>
>> Your work as a producer was sub-standard in taste and accuracy. I
>> would never have engaged you.
>>
>
> You are aware I suppose that one of the pieces Leakin' Deacon picked
> for the project was by the wrong pianist. On the Paderewski set, the
> performance of Liszt's La Leggierezza, is not actually by Paderewski.
> Instead,Deacon has included the performance by Benno Moiseiwitsch
> (which is also in their Moiseiwitsch volume).
Couldn't that mistake be attributed to someone else who compiled the
> On Mon, 3 Sep 2012 11:06:36 -0700 (PDT), Allan Evans
> <dis...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Marik, Tiegerman, Horszowski, and so many more have to be saved from
>> an industry rife with your mentality. Of course you can't accept
>> Marik' playing: pearls before swine.
>>
>> Your work as a producer was sub-standard in taste and accuracy. I
>> would never have engaged you.
>>
>
> You are aware I suppose that one of the pieces Leakin' Deacon picked
> for the project was by the wrong pianist. On the Paderewski set, the
> performance of Liszt's La Leggierezza, is not actually by Paderewski.
> Instead,Deacon has included the performance by Benno Moiseiwitsch
> (which is also in their Moiseiwitsch volume).
tape masters together for release? Or do you have some inside
information?
Steve
Allan Evans
Sep 4, 2012, 7:50:51 AM9/4/12
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was leaked!!
Allan Evans
Sep 4, 2012, 7:58:13 AM9/4/12
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> Now you would appear to be channelling Bartok. There seems to be no
> end to your abilities. First you use your own quotes to back up your
> own statements, now you're channelling Bartok ro buttress your
> opinions of this piano teacher.
>
> As I said, pathetic. Musical archeology.
>
> TD
The research and info on Lazare-Levy pleading with Cortot that I am
> end to your abilities. First you use your own quotes to back up your
> own statements, now you're channelling Bartok ro buttress your
> opinions of this piano teacher.
>
> As I said, pathetic. Musical archeology.
>
> TD
supposedly quoting from my own writing was written by Frederic
Gaussin, author of a book on L-L. He is credited in the notes, making
your reading as deficient as your listening.
td
Sep 4, 2012, 10:31:57 AM9/4/12
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It is, of course, impossible for one person to sit in a studio and compile recordings while at the same time trying to manage the production and marketing of 200CDs of this nature.tapes arrived in Hannover on a daily basis from over 20 sources. In addition to the 250 other CDs which Philips was producing at the same time. Not to mention the closing of Philips in The Netherlads as the edition was appearing on the market. M
Mistakes, like shit, happen. It's a miracle that more didn't happen than did. The point is to deal with it, and it was dealt with. End of story.
Except for those possessed of pea-brains, of course.
TD
Mistakes, like shit, happen. It's a miracle that more didn't happen than did. The point is to deal with it, and it was dealt with. End of story.
Except for those possessed of pea-brains, of course.
TD
td
Sep 4, 2012, 10:38:16 AM9/4/12
to
Please tell someone who cares.
Nazi-hunters are a strange breed, it would seem. In this instance the maniacal obsession on Cortot's, or Gieseking's, or Fournier's, or Munch's dealings with the conquering powers in France have succeeded in blinding -or deafening - you to the nature of tgeir musicianship.
It really is a very pathetic sight to see someone who claims to love music trying to chip away at the reputations of some of the greatest musicians on the basis of a photograph taken inthe halls of the Ritz Hotel during the German occupation of France.
In the end you assume the mantle of a certified nutbar.
TD
Nazi-hunters are a strange breed, it would seem. In this instance the maniacal obsession on Cortot's, or Gieseking's, or Fournier's, or Munch's dealings with the conquering powers in France have succeeded in blinding -or deafening - you to the nature of tgeir musicianship.
It really is a very pathetic sight to see someone who claims to love music trying to chip away at the reputations of some of the greatest musicians on the basis of a photograph taken inthe halls of the Ritz Hotel during the German occupation of France.
In the end you assume the mantle of a certified nutbar.
TD
Mark S
Sep 4, 2012, 1:20:20 PM9/4/12
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don't blame people for the few mistakes that have shown up in the
recent ATE on RCA. Anyone who has ever gone through the process of
issuing a single legit CD knows that there are many places in the
process where screw ups can occur. A huge project like GPOC by its
very nature is going to have a few problems, especially when one has
moved out of the safety zone of recordings that are under one's
control to using recordings that are being licensed in by third
parties.
But then, I can sympathize because I've been in the same position as
you, though on a much-smaller scale (ie: I've produced 10- and 12-CD
sets that consisted in part of third-party material). I understand
that the logistics involved in issuing these large-scale projects ARE
akin to brain surgery. You go over and over and over it, and STILL,
mistakes happen.
It's frustrating, to say the least, no more so than after a correction
has been issued and people still bitch about the initial mistake.
The Historian
Sep 4, 2012, 2:46:51 PM9/4/12
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sets.
td
Sep 4, 2012, 4:08:12 PM9/4/12
to
On Sep 4, 1:20 pm, Mark S <markstenr...@yahoo.com> wrote:
That fucking project put me in the hospital with a triple bypass. And
yet, you know, I would do it all over again if given the chance.
Some things are worth the effort.
TD
Oscar
Sep 4, 2012, 4:38:19 PM9/4/12
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Why this is marked as abuse? It has been marked as abuse.
Report not abuse
I have a copy of The Complete Symphonies of JOHN Sibelius by Sir John Barbirolli, misspelling on each disc. Not the orig. EMI release, but Musical Heritage Society reissue. How many titles did MHS issue each month?
Mark S
Sep 4, 2012, 5:20:35 PM9/4/12
to
On Sep 4, 1:38 pm, Oscar <oscaredwardwilliam...@gmail.com> wrote:
> How many titles did MHS issue each month?
Hard to give you a "per month" number as we did 18 issues a year, not
> How many titles did MHS issue each month?
12.
Before I got there, about 6 titles per issue. Apres moi, 15 - 25 per
issue. That rose to around 50-60 per issue during the Xmas selling
season (for MHS, Sept - Nov), though the majority of those titles
would be finished goods purchased from the classical labels.
Mark S
Sep 4, 2012, 5:25:37 PM9/4/12
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On Sep 4, 1:38 pm, Oscar <oscaredwardwilliam...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I have a copy of The Complete Symphonies of JOHN Sibelius by Sir John Barbirolli, misspelling on each disc.
Of course, he was christened Johan Julius Christian Sibelius. His
family called him Janne. Sibelius began using the French version of
his name (Jean) during his student years.
Oscar
Sep 4, 2012, 5:47:23 PM9/4/12
to
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So did the John Sibelius screw-up happen when you were the $100,000+ VP of Sales and Marketing at MHS? Or, were the damned proofs approved by one of the donut-eating grunts?
On Sep 26, 2:22 pm, Mark S wrote:
>
> Of course, I might have been out-of-touch with the goings on of the
> "office clerks," what with my being the MHS VP of Sales & Marketing
> and pulling down a salary of over $100k a year (sorry, but it's true).
> I don't contend that I knew everybody there on a first-name basis,
> though I bought plenty of pizza and donuts over the years for those
> who did the grunt work in order processing.
<end>
On Sep 26, 2:22 pm, Mark S wrote:
>
> Of course, I might have been out-of-touch with the goings on of the
> "office clerks," what with my being the MHS VP of Sales & Marketing
> and pulling down a salary of over $100k a year (sorry, but it's true).
> I don't contend that I knew everybody there on a first-name basis,
> though I bought plenty of pizza and donuts over the years for those
> who did the grunt work in order processing.
<end>
Mark S
Sep 4, 2012, 7:27:53 PM9/4/12
to
On Sep 4, 2:47 pm, Oscar <oscaredwardwilliam...@gmail.com> wrote:
> So did the John Sibelius screw-up happen when you were the $100,000+ VP of Sales and Marketing at MHS? Or, were the damned proofs approved by one of the donut-eating grunts?
Actually, my pay was more in the $120,000-per-year range when that
> So did the John Sibelius screw-up happen when you were the $100,000+ VP of Sales and Marketing at MHS? Or, were the damned proofs approved by one of the donut-eating grunts?
screw-up occurred. It's a small screw up that pales in comparison to
the lengths MHS went to to bring that set to its members.
I had already issued Vanska's Sibelius symphonies as a box set through
MHS when the EMI/Barbirolli set was reissued in 2000. I thought it
would be a good set to offer during the holidays, but I didn't think
it warranted our manufacturing. Ergo, I made arrangements to buy
finished goods through Angel, USA. Unfortunately, after we had already
advertised the set, Angel informed us that they would not be able to
supply finished good in the quantities I needed for projected sales.
We made the decision immediately to convert the set to an MHS-
manufactured set. Parts and masters were supplied by EMI UK. We were
under the gun, but we knocked the set out in record time.
The problem with "John" on the CD labels wasn't MHS' fault directly.
In fact, it couldn't be our fault as our database had the names of
every composer entered into it. Those names were spit out of the
computer to appear the same on product, in catalogs and in
advertisements. the beauty of the system was that we only had to get
the composer name right once, ie: right in the system. After that, we
had a high level of confidence that things would come out correctly.
The screw-up on the CD labels actually occurred at the CD
manufacturing plant. They were sent the e-files for the CD label film.
Before they went online, they called our proof department to get a
final verbal OK on the labels. Apparently, they misunderstood our
person pronouncing "Jean" using the French pronunciation (sounds like
"John") with the American pronunciation of "John," most likely because
in the USA, Jean is pronounced as "gene." So they went ahead and
stripped out the "Jean" and inserted "John" on all the CD labels.
Being a rush job, we didn't discover the problem until we received the
manufactured sets from the plant. At that point, I really wasn't going
to demand a fix. After all, John is just English for Johan, which WAS
Sibelius' christened name. Besides, what asshole besides a guy like
Oscar would think the mistake was big enough to get one's panties in a
wad over?
You'll notice that the name "Jean" appears printed correctly on this
set every place except on the CD labels, ie: on the booklet and tray
cards.
The set proved to be a decent seller for us. Plus, I got EMI to give
me the right to use the set as a loss leader to attract new members to
compensate for their inability to supply me with finished goods.
As far as my salary, the screw-up had no effect on my Xmas bonus that
year, which was in the 20%-of-salary range.
Thanks for giving me a forum to relate this bit of behind-the-scenes
fun!
Oscar
Sep 5, 2012, 3:44:50 AM9/5/12
to
Why this is marked as abuse? It has been marked as abuse.
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On Sep 4, 10:20 am, Mark S wrote:
>
> I understand that the logistics involved in issuing these large-scale
> projects ARE akin to brain surgery.
Product men are not neurosurgeons.
>
> I understand that the logistics involved in issuing these large-scale
> projects ARE akin to brain surgery.
On Sep 4, 4:27 pm, Mark S wrote:
>
> The problem with "John" on the CD labels wasn't MHS' fault directly.
I've already perished the thought.
> The screw-up on the CD labels actually occurred at the CD
> manufacturing plant.
>
> Before they went online, they called our proof department to get a
> final verbal OK on the labels. Apparently, they misunderstood our
> person pronouncing "Jean"...so they went ahead and stripped out
> final verbal OK on the labels. Apparently, they misunderstood our
> "Jean" and inserted "John" on all the CD labels.
Without your knowledge, or that of your 'proofing department', that A
was being changed to B? Unilateral action by the plant??
> Being a rush job, we didn't discover the problem until we received the
> manufactured sets from the plant. At that point, I really wasn't going
> to demand a fix. After all, John is just English for Johan, which WAS
> Sibelius' christened name. Besides, what asshole besides a guy like
> Oscar would think the mistake was big enough to get one's panties in a
> wad over?
big flub — 36-point font big — would it be considered akin to
lobotomy, hydrocephalus, or subarachnoid hemorrhage, Doctor?
> The set proved to be a decent seller for us. Plus, I got EMI to give
> me the right to use the set as a loss leader to attract new members to
> compensate for their inability to supply me with finished goods.
>
> As far as my salary, the screw-up had no effect on my Xmas bonus that
> year, which was in the 20%-of-salary range.
Oscar
Sep 5, 2012, 4:22:50 AM9/5/12
to
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On Sep 4, 1:08 pm, td wrote:
>
> > It's frustrating, to say the least, no more so than after a correction
> > has been issued and people still bitch about the initial mistake.
>
> It is because they have nothing else to bitch about, Mark.
Dear diary...
>
> > It's frustrating, to say the least, no more so than after a correction
> > has been issued and people still bitch about the initial mistake.
>
> It is because they have nothing else to bitch about, Mark.
On Jul 5 2006, 3:48 am, tomdeacon wrote:
>
> Those who admired Joyce Hatto — and we are a disparate group, as Andrys
> has pointed out — will feel that things are just as they always were
> before Joyce Hatto died as we scan the Internet and our normal sources
> of "news" for signs that the rest of the world was aware of this great
> lady.
Great lady.
> I imagine that it was the same when Clara Haskil died, you know. And
> perhaps even Dinu Lipatti. Kapell died in an airplane, as did Ginette
> Neveu, so that brought immediate reaction from the press; everyone
> seems to be able to sympathize with a flaming airplane crash. Much
> harder to understand the dogged perseverance of a JH who struggled to
> lay down her legacy while still battling cancer for thirty-five years
> and then finally succumbed to this disease.
Dogged perseverance.
> It also points up the almost complete anonymity of Joyce Hatto among
> the public at large. After all, newspapers tend to register the deaths
> of those who will register with their readers. Joyce didn't register
> with many, just with a few, alas.
Just a few.
> This seeming indifference to her and to her art causes even further
> pain and distress to her admirers. But it is simply yet another call to
> arms. We must do what we can, however small, however insignificant, to
> ensure that she is not forgotten at least by those who might be tempted
> to be interested in her playing. Music-lovers.
Pain and distress.
> So, I am pleased that BBC Music Magazine - as opposed to, say, the
> BEEEBEEECEEE itself - will print a tribute to Joyce Hatto in their
> September issue. I, for one, will buy that issue.
I will buy that issue.
> As for the Gramophone, I am considering a complete boycott of this
> magazine. I just won't read it anymore. Won't buy it. Won't even refer
> to it. Irrelevance has become its stock-in-trade. Funny. I have been
> reading that thing for the better part of five decades. Now, no more.
> Finito, la comedia! It had, of course, become something of a joke
> amongst collectors. The website and its "gramofile" a completely
> useless tool. I don't remember ever finding a single review of anything
> I have ever hunted for with its pathetic search engine. Like expecting
> an old Jaguar E-type to start!!!
I will not buy that issue.
> In the meantime, I am assembling a list of "wants" from the Crotchet
> website. A way of erasing my sense of outrage at the "news" and its
> lack of news.
Outrage.
wade
Sep 5, 2012, 8:18:44 AM9/5/12
to
graham
Sep 5, 2012, 9:24:41 AM9/5/12
to
"wade" <wade...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:e7c83d2b-1201-4947...@googlegroups.com...
It's rmcr's version of Godwin's Law! Always quoted by the anal-retentives,
i.e., those that are full of shit!
Graham
Mark S
Sep 5, 2012, 10:36:46 AM9/5/12
to
On Sep 5, 12:44 am, Oscar <oscaredwardwilliam...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Before they went online, they called our proof department to get a
> > final verbal OK on the labels. Apparently, they misunderstood our
> > person pronouncing "Jean"...so they went ahead and stripped out
> > "Jean" and inserted "John" on all the CD labels.
>
> Without your knowledge, or that of your 'proofing department', that A
> was being changed to B? Unilateral action by the plant??
Re-read what I wrote, ass.
> > Before they went online, they called our proof department to get a
> > final verbal OK on the labels. Apparently, they misunderstood our
> > person pronouncing "Jean"...so they went ahead and stripped out
> > "Jean" and inserted "John" on all the CD labels.
>
> Without your knowledge, or that of your 'proofing department', that A
> was being changed to B? Unilateral action by the plant??
Mark S
Sep 5, 2012, 10:42:32 AM9/5/12
to
On Sep 5, 5:18 am, wade <wadewo...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> How did we suddenly end up in Hatto-land after a discussion of typos on MHS Sibelius CDs.
Because Oscar can't seem to fight his overpowering urge to cut-n-paste
>
>
> How did we suddenly end up in Hatto-land after a discussion of typos on MHS Sibelius CDs.
rmcr posts from years ago to refute what someone is penning today. He
thinks it substitutes for his writing something of worth. It doesn't.
All it does is beg the question: what kind of person keeps a record of
posts from rmcr by various contributors, lying in wait for his chance
to throw someone's words back in their face through a "gotcha"
exercise that's reminiscent of what most of us last experienced on the
elementary school playground?
Oscar
Sep 5, 2012, 11:42:02 AM9/5/12
to
Why this is marked as abuse? It has been marked as abuse.
Report not abuse
On Sep 5, 7:42 am, Mark S wrote:
>
> Because Oscar can't seem to fight his overpowering urge to cut-n-paste
> rmcr posts from years ago to refute what someone is penning today. He
> thinks it substitutes for his writing something of worth. It doesn't.
I'm presently reading Charles Reid's biography of Juan Barbirolli, and
>
> Because Oscar can't seem to fight his overpowering urge to cut-n-paste
> rmcr posts from years ago to refute what someone is penning today. He
> thinks it substitutes for his writing something of worth. It doesn't.
I acquired the Sibelius set last week. It's all timely.
Back to Cortot, or Deacon, or Nazis, or whatever was going on here
before someone equated Product Management with neurosurgery. Forty
days till the box arrives (October 15).
Mark S
Sep 5, 2012, 12:46:54 PM9/5/12
to
> You compared Product Management to neurosurgery. 'John Sibelius' was
> big flub — 36-point font big .
A big flub? To whom? To you? Nobody cares what you think, Oscar.
Certainly, I don't care what you think.
Only an anal-retentive like yourself would consider that a "big flub."
One wonders what you made of RCA putting the wrong version of the
Eroica in the latest ATE. That must be an astronomical flub by your
standards, no doubt punishable by death for an anal retentive like
yourself. Were you a sitting judge, I have no doubt the gas chamber
would be your standard sentence for jay walking.
And, of course, it isn't even technically a tiny flub, as John is the
Anglicized version of Johan and Jean. It's not like the CD labels had
something really stupid on them, like "Oscar Sibelius."
Oscar
Sep 5, 2012, 1:00:26 PM9/5/12
to
Why this is marked as abuse? It has been marked as abuse.
Report not abuse
On Sep 5, 9:46 am, Mark S wrote:
>
> A big flub? To whom? To you? Nobody cares what you think, Oscar.
> Certainly, I don't care what you think.
As I said: '36-point font big', i.e. literally. Not like 'meaningful'.
>
> A big flub? To whom? To you? Nobody cares what you think, Oscar.
> Certainly, I don't care what you think.
Relax.
Mark S
Sep 5, 2012, 1:11:23 PM9/5/12
to
The implication that it was meaningful was there in your statement:
"'John Sibelius' was
> big flub — 36-point font big ."
The 36-pt descriptor was added to show just how big it was.
> big flub — 36-point font big ."
Oscar
Sep 5, 2012, 1:36:18 PM9/5/12
to
Why this is marked as abuse? It has been marked as abuse.
Report not abuse
On Sep 5, 10:11 am, Mark S wrote:
>
> > As I said: '36-point font big', i.e. literally. Not like 'meaningful'.
> > Relax.
>
> Wrong.
>
>
> > As I said: '36-point font big', i.e. literally. Not like 'meaningful'.
> > Relax.
>
> Wrong.
>
> The 36-pt descriptor was added to show just how big it was.
You are _not_ a neurosurgeon — you cannot get inside my head to gauge
my intentions.
John Wiser
Sep 5, 2012, 2:07:11 PM9/5/12
to
"Oscar" <oscaredwar...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:de3370a7-c096-4a0a...@sd5g2000pbc.googlegroups.com...
> my intentions.
Gentlemen: Be thankful for small favors.
JDW
news:de3370a7-c096-4a0a...@sd5g2000pbc.googlegroups.com...
On Sep 5, 10:11 am, Mark S wrote:
>
>> > As I said: '36-point font big', i.e. literally. Not like 'meaningful'.
>> > Relax.
>
>> Wrong.
>
>> The 36-pt descriptor was added to show just how big it was.
> You are _not_ a neurosurgeon � you cannot get inside my head to gauge
>
>> > As I said: '36-point font big', i.e. literally. Not like 'meaningful'.
>> > Relax.
>
>> Wrong.
>
>> The 36-pt descriptor was added to show just how big it was.
> my intentions.
Gentlemen: Be thankful for small favors.
JDW
Mark S
Sep 5, 2012, 2:19:18 PM9/5/12
to
Looks like it's more a matter of your inability to clearly convey your
intentions when writing in this ng.
td
Sep 5, 2012, 3:45:56 PM9/5/12
to
I think you have made those perfectly clear, Mark.
TD
Dontait...@aol.com
Sep 5, 2012, 4:47:54 PM9/5/12
to
On Sep 2, 3:19 pm, td <tomdedea...@mac.com> wrote:
> There is no reason to feel that the same "team" has not worked on this set. BC worked for several years under RJ at EMI France fefore RJ's retirement.
>
> TD
Who is BC? Who is RJ? Bob Crawford? Ricky Jenkins?
Don Tait
> There is no reason to feel that the same "team" has not worked on this set. BC worked for several years under RJ at EMI France fefore RJ's retirement.
>
> TD
Who is BC? Who is RJ? Bob Crawford? Ricky Jenkins?
Don Tait
Dontait...@aol.com
Sep 5, 2012, 5:01:01 PM9/5/12
to
On Sep 3, 6:33 am, Allan Evans <disz...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Cortot is said to have given lists of Jewish students to the Gestapo.
[snip]
Could you please provide definite evidence, proof, of that rather
than what he "is said to have" done?
Don Tait
> Cortot is said to have given lists of Jewish students to the Gestapo.
[snip]
Could you please provide definite evidence, proof, of that rather
than what he "is said to have" done?
Don Tait
td
Sep 8, 2012, 6:08:18 AM9/8/12
to
td
Sep 8, 2012, 6:10:01 AM9/8/12
to
On Sep 5, 5:01 pm, "Dontaitchic...@aol.com" <Dontaitchic...@aol.com>
wrote:
No, he can't.
It is typical of this breed of neo-nazi-hunters.
First rule is to slur with gossip and innuendo.
Second is to quote this gossip as a "source".
It's called faux journalism, modern-style.
TD
wrote:
It is typical of this breed of neo-nazi-hunters.
First rule is to slur with gossip and innuendo.
Second is to quote this gossip as a "source".
It's called faux journalism, modern-style.
TD
Allan Evans
Sep 8, 2012, 6:32:17 AM9/8/12
to
learned it from eye-witnesses. U don't make these things up as you
well know. Just read Gaussin on Lazare-Levy for a single example
(mentioned earlier in this 'discussion').
Allan
Allan Evans
Sep 8, 2012, 6:35:15 AM9/8/12
to
well documented.
td
Sep 8, 2012, 2:21:30 PM9/8/12
to
2. It is simply gossip.
The ability to corroborate this kind of claim with any kind of factual
evidence has long since passed.
TD
td
Sep 8, 2012, 2:22:15 PM9/8/12
to
On Sep 8, 6:35 am, Allan Evans <disz...@gmail.com> wrote:
> and I respect my sources. When the time comes to reveal, it will be
> well documented.
Peak-a-boo journalism.
> and I respect my sources. When the time comes to reveal, it will be
> well documented.
Now you see it, now you don't.
TD
SPAM- @xs4all.nl HvT
Sep 10, 2012, 3:17:55 PM9/10/12
to
td wrote:
>
> That fucking project put me in the hospital with a triple bypass. And
> yet, you know, I would do it all over again if given the chance.
>
> Some things are worth the effort.
The GPOC is still worth every cent I paid for it - and I paid full price.
I'm still revisiting most of the CDs. Criticism is easy, certainly when the
critics can remain uncriticized because their achievements are unknown to
us.
Henk
>
> That fucking project put me in the hospital with a triple bypass. And
> yet, you know, I would do it all over again if given the chance.
>
> Some things are worth the effort.
The GPOC is still worth every cent I paid for it - and I paid full price.
I'm still revisiting most of the CDs. Criticism is easy, certainly when the
critics can remain uncriticized because their achievements are unknown to
us.
Henk
mandryka
Sep 10, 2012, 3:26:02 PM9/10/12
to
O
Sep 10, 2012, 3:30:38 PM9/10/12
to
In article
<e2c23799-675c-43e9...@t4g2000vba.googlegroups.com>,
There's no question that GPOC was and is a valuable asset not only to
CM collectors now, but as a reference to those in the future who may
wonder just what such-and-such pianist sounded like in the best
possible light of their recorded legacies. Almost an encyclopedia of
pianists by their recorded sounds.
-Owen
<e2c23799-675c-43e9...@t4g2000vba.googlegroups.com>,
CM collectors now, but as a reference to those in the future who may
wonder just what such-and-such pianist sounded like in the best
possible light of their recorded legacies. Almost an encyclopedia of
pianists by their recorded sounds.
-Owen
SPAM- @xs4all.nl HvT
Sep 10, 2012, 4:03:57 PM9/10/12
to
will sound any better to these ears when 2. is true or will sound even worse
than they do now when 2. is untrue.
Besides, who believes that AE tells us something new when he mentions that
the famous pianist Y told him confidentially [why?] that Cortot was on the
wrong side during WWII?
Henk
John Wiser
Sep 10, 2012, 5:11:21 PM9/10/12
to
"mandryka" <howie...@btinternet.com> wrote in message
news:e2c23799-675c-43e9...@t4g2000vba.googlegroups.com...
> Seconded
In fact, the achievements of RMCR critics
of GPOC are known and quantifiable:
...sf-a, zip, nada, bubkis, zilch, nil, zero...
JDW
news:e2c23799-675c-43e9...@t4g2000vba.googlegroups.com...
In fact, the achievements of RMCR critics
of GPOC are known and quantifiable:
...sf-a, zip, nada, bubkis, zilch, nil, zero...
JDW
O
Sep 10, 2012, 5:20:51 PM9/10/12
to
In article <3Is3s.6708$LJ6...@newsfe16.iad>, John Wiser
You forgot world class mouthpiece engineer. Oh, maybe you didn't...
-Owen
-Owen
td
Sep 11, 2012, 8:09:06 PM9/11/12
to
I really loathe this kind of so-called research.
Gossip is gossip.
We can't even believe half of what the sainted Artur Rubinstein claimed was true in the two volumes of his auto-biography. Do we belive his tale of Horowitz and the race track and his resulting pique? Best not to make that mistake.
What we know about VH and AR we can glean for ourselves from their extensive appearances on television. What either said privately about Suzie Glutz is simply beyond our abilities to know verifiably.
Discretion is always the better part of valour in such matters.
TD
Gossip is gossip.
We can't even believe half of what the sainted Artur Rubinstein claimed was true in the two volumes of his auto-biography. Do we belive his tale of Horowitz and the race track and his resulting pique? Best not to make that mistake.
What we know about VH and AR we can glean for ourselves from their extensive appearances on television. What either said privately about Suzie Glutz is simply beyond our abilities to know verifiably.
Discretion is always the better part of valour in such matters.
TD
Dufus
Sep 11, 2012, 11:32:03 PM9/11/12
to
>On Sep 11, 7:09 pm, td <tomdedea...@mac.com> wrote:
> I really loathe this kind of so-called research.
> Gossip is gossip.
The historical record seems inconclusive, as noted earlier. But unlike
> I really loathe this kind of so-called research.
> Gossip is gossip.
several of Rubinstein's claims, the historical record does establish
Cortot was on the Vichy National Council and served as the Vichy Arts
Commissioner, gave concerts in Nazi Germany, and yuked it up with the
Speers at the Paris Ritz. Unlike a Perlemuter , who barely escaped to
Switzerland. Cortot may not have harmed any Jews in France , and may
have been a friend of French Jews, but one can wonder whether either
fact would have been rewarded by the Nazis with concerts in Germany
and Vichy positions.
"Saint" Rubinstein's end of life dalliance is a fact which does spoil
a bit his recorded legacy.
Dufus
pehrtmn
Oct 26, 2012, 8:06:16 PM10/26/12
to
On Saturday, August 11, 2012 2:55:59 PM UTC-7, randy...@gmail.com wrote:
> EMI is releasing a 40 CD Cortot Anniversary Edition in September:
>
>
>
> http://tinyurl.com/8frs3k4
>
>
>
> Are there enough EMI licensed commercial recordings to fill a 40 CD set, or is it likely this has live recordings or material form other labels? Speculation admittedly. Best just wait until more is known.
>
> If one has virtually no Cortot recordings to speak of, are there enough to-die-for items from EMI to make it a no-brainer? If so, what recordings?
Well, it says that there are parts of the unfinished Beethoven cycle, including Les Adieux, and movements from Appassionata and Op.90, as well as the as-yet-unissued-on-CD 1953 Kreisleriana and Etudes Symphoniques.
> EMI is releasing a 40 CD Cortot Anniversary Edition in September:
>
>
>
> http://tinyurl.com/8frs3k4
>
>
>
> Are there enough EMI licensed commercial recordings to fill a 40 CD set, or is it likely this has live recordings or material form other labels? Speculation admittedly. Best just wait until more is known.
>
> If one has virtually no Cortot recordings to speak of, are there enough to-die-for items from EMI to make it a no-brainer? If so, what recordings?
Well, it says that there are parts of the unfinished Beethoven cycle, including Les Adieux, and movements from Appassionata and Op.90, as well as the as-yet-unissued-on-CD 1953 Kreisleriana and Etudes Symphoniques.
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