Lugansky plays Ravel Left Hand Concerto
Dufus
happened upon, and was impressed :
Gerard
> A recording of a live performance in Moscow of the Ravel lepico
lepico!
> I
> happened upon,
How could that happen?
> and was impressed :
>
More impressed than with everything on Youtube?
Dufus
> Dufus wrote:
What did you think of Lugansky's performance ? Or do you just respond
to all posts here , without thinking ?
td
I, for one, didn't listen.
Certainly he can manage to play this piece, but nothing he has done
for the past twenty years has led me to think he could bring anything
but smooth competence to any music he played.
TD
Dufus
> I, for one, didn't listen. Certainly he can manage to play this piece, but nothing he has done
> for the past twenty years has led me to think he could bring anything
> but smooth competence to any music he played.
>
Of course, " dont trouble me with the facts. " Just slam Lugansky
without a hearing.
Gerard
> On Apr 3, 10:35 am, "Gerard" <ghend_nospam_rik...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > Dufus wrote:
>
> What did you think of Lugansky's performance ?
I did not impress me.
(BTW you did not tell what exactly impressed you.)
> Or do you just respond
> to all posts here , without thinking ?
Dumb question, isn't it?
pianomaven
I have already wasted far too much time in the past on this pianist. I
have no more available, alas.
TD
wimpie
Correct
W.
JohnGavin
I would never slam Lugansky who is a highly accomplished pianist, and
always plays well.
He takes his career very seriously. The problem with him is that he's
so dutiful, like a student intent on being class valedictorian.
The Ravel LH Concerto is exactly what one would expect from him -
played well with more than sufficient technique and taste.
But listen if you can to Zimerman/Boulez and you'll hear more of what
the piece has to offer.
They looked more deeply into the score, gesture-wise, color-wise etc.
They make Lugansky sound rather generic.
However, there's a little too much disrespect here toward those like
Lugansky who may not possess the acme of imagination, but have worked
very hard to get where they are.
bassppn
you are right, and that description also fits your pal Brendel except
that he was not always so "smooth".
AB
bassppn
I had his recording of a Rach PC,(forgot which one) and gave it
away(playing was rather dull). He is just an average pianist.
AB
bassppn
>
> - Show quoted text -
it is NOT a matter of disrespect...... we are just commenting on his
playing. Should we say that he is truly a 'great pianist'. would that
show more 'respect'? How much time do we have to listen to competent
but umimaginative pianists? Would you rather watch a tennis player
who is ranked 300 in the world rather tnan Federer, Nadal,
Jukovich(sp)? Does hard work but lesser talent demand admiration?
Rather naive attitudes, no?
AB
SPAM- @xs4all.nl HvT
> I would never slam Lugansky who is a highly accomplished pianist, and
> always plays well.
> He takes his career very seriously. The problem with him is that he's
> so dutiful, like a student intent on being class valedictorian.
> The Ravel LH Concerto is exactly what one would expect from him -
> played well with more than sufficient technique and taste.
>
> But listen if you can to Zimerman/Boulez and you'll hear more of what
> the piece has to offer.
> They looked more deeply into the score, gesture-wise, color-wise etc.
> They make Lugansky sound rather generic.
>
> However, there's a little too much disrespect here toward those like
> Lugansky who may not possess the acme of imagination, but have worked
> very hard to get where they are.
Lugansky is an excellent professional. He's not one of the great performing
pianists, but very few are. It would be difficult to name more than twenty
who are consistently more interesting than Luganksy. For example, among the
67 still performing pianists who once participated in the Meesterpianisten
series of the Concertgebouw I count only 14.
Henk
JohnGavin
Your facile, lazy, routine, and frequent one-sentence put-downs of
various pianists are not only disrespectful, but show a total lack of
breeding.
I sense through your posts a complete lack of social skills.
td
td
So, music is sport?
> Does hard work but lesser talent demand admiration?
Fluency and competence have their place in the scheme of things. This,
after all, is Volodos' strength, lacking as he does any audible signs
of personality, flair, or passion.
> Rather naive attitudes, no?
Yes, I think so.
TD
td
Ahem.
> I sense through your posts a complete lack of social skills.
Well, there is that, of course, but to judge AB correctly you would
have to also look at his other side on, say, Pianophiles, or Great
Pianists, where he is kept on a firm leash.
Here he can abuse with freedom, allowing the worse sides of his
personality free reign.
The lingering problem, however, is his deafness. And for that we can
only have pity on the poor man. Few of us would put up with the little
he can actually hear, you know.
So, go easy.
TD
td
I think that many "Meesterpianisten" have never graced Markus
Riskoff's series. And some that have are, if pianists, far from
"meesters".
TD
M. A.
> I think that many "Meesterpianisten" have never graced Markus
> Riskoff's series.
Who of the currently performing pianists would you count among these?
M. A.
bassppn
>
> - Show quoted text -
yes, I was 'inbred' so please dont expect any 'breeding' or social
skills as you put it. Maybe I should adopt TD methods, where all
pianists are great except Volodos and Lugansky..
If you want a detailed thoughts of Lugansky's playing let me know.
But anyway, FWIW his pianos are perfectly tuned:-)
AB
AB
bassppn
>
> - Show quoted text -
we all have a right to our opinions and i certainly would not disagree
with you if you feel as you do......
AB
bassppn
>
> - Show quoted text -
TD has social skills, to be sure.... he just does not display them on
RMCR:-)
AB
bassppn
you are losing it TD, Gavin he is talking about YOU, not me. but
according to JG, we both do lack 'social skills:-)
bassppn
>
> - Show quoted text -
how come you are only one of a few that feel that way about Volodos?
Could you POSSIBLEY be wrong or are the rest of us who admire his
positive qualities naive??
AB
bassppn
I just purchased a hearing aid (made in moose country, Canada). So
now I am allowed back in the orchestra to play principal baffooon.
Next year we shall have Lugansky as a piano soloist and I shall let
you know what my deaf ears think of his playing.........
AB
bassppn
he has only one name, Brendel and maybe Wang......
AB
ivanmaxim
>
> - Show quoted text -
Keep reminding yourself that you are talking to someone who can't tell
two performances apart - the poor old fool thinks we all forgot about
that, As for his social skills - they consist mainly of toadying up to
his betters. Poor deluded old poof. Wagner fan
wimpie
No pianist has ever graced Markus Riskoff's series! The name of the
impresario is Marco Riaskoff (very difficult name indeed).
W.
wimpie
Tom is right: pianists like Pollini, Zimerman, Lupu, von Eckardstein,
Sokolov, Pires, Kissin are crap! (Some of the pianists who play this
season). Some of them also played in his series "pianists of the 20 th
century" funnily enough...
W,
pianomaven
Your problem - one among many, I think - is that you actually think
there is a right and a wrong.
Big problem. There are no such absolutes in opinions.
TD
pianomaven
Maco, Marko.
Riskoff, Riaskoff.
Whatever.
My point remains.
In ten years in Amsterdam I think I attended two or three recitals in
his series. I lived two blocks from the Concertgebouw.
Get the picture?
TD
pianomaven
Pollini IS a great pianist. Ditto Zimerman, Kissin, Pires. And you
neglect Ashkenazy, Argerich, Freire, etc.
I did not see Sokolov in A'dam while I was there. His rise to
prominence happened in the 1990s. And yes, he is a great pianist.
But the hundreds of others? Some of them, perhaps. All of them, no
way. And that includes Von Eckhardstein, in my opinion. (WHAT was
that jury in Brussels thinking?)
TD
wimpie
No, not at all. But it is as you wrote to Arri "there is no right and
no wrong". Anyway, my "truth" is that I have attended 20 years of
recitals now and I am still very grateful I heard luminaries like
Ashkenazy, Pollini, Argerich, Cherkassky, Sokolov, Pires, Zimerman,
Perahia and I could go on for a while. I all heard them in these
series, so it can't be half as crappy as you claimed.
But as you said: whatever...
W
bassppn
>
> - Show quoted text -
you are too harsh on him...... he really is a sweet old fool who
periodically drinks too much and then says dumb things on RMCR.
Actually he is a bright bastard who uses his brains for the wrong
reasons and in the wrong ways.
AB
td
> On Apr 5, 9:30 pm, pianomaven <1pianoma...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Apr 5, 3:00 pm, wimpie <willembo...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > On Apr 5, 6:42 pm, "M. A." <not.for....@server.com> wrote:
>
> > > > "td" wrote...
>
> > > > > I think that many "Meesterpianisten" have never graced Markus
> > > > > Riskoff's series.
>
> > > > Who of the currently performing pianists would you count among these?
>
> > > > M. A.
>
> > > No pianist has ever graced Markus Riskoff's series! The name of the
> > > impresario is Marco Riaskoff (very difficult name indeed).
>
> > Maco, Marko.
>
> > Riskoff, Riaskoff.
>
> > Whatever.
>
> > My point remains.
>
> > In ten years in Amsterdam I think I attended two or three recitals in
> > his series. I lived two blocks from the Concertgebouw.
>
> > Get the picture?
>
> > TD
>
> No, not at all.
Really?
> But it is as you wrote to Arri "there is no right and
> no wrong".
Correct.
Anyway, my "truth" is that I have attended 20 years of
> recitals now and I am still very grateful I heard luminaries like
> Ashkenazy, Pollini, Argerich, Cherkassky, Sokolov, Pires, Zimerman,
> Perahia and I could go on for a while.
Right.
How about a few hundred more?
I all heard them in these
> series, so it can't be half as crappy as you claimed.
Did I ever use the word "crappy"? Try not to put words in my mouth. I
can do that perfectly well all by myself.
> But as you said: whatever...
Right.
TD
td
> you are too harsh on him...... he really is a sweet old fool who
> periodically drinks too much
You think so?
How would you know?
In any event, a glass of wine with dinner is probably too much for
you. LOL.
> Actually he is a bright bastard who uses his brains for the wrong
> reasons and in the wrong ways.
I deny that. I am not bright at all. Just persistent.
As for bastard, I know for sure that my mother was my mother and my
father was my father. They both raised me.
Can you make the same statement?
TD
M. A.
>
> > > On Apr 5, 12:42 pm, "M. A." <not.for....@server.com> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > "td" wrote...
> > > > >
> > > > > I think that many "Meesterpianisten" have never graced Markus
> > > > > Riskoff's series.
> > > >
> > > > Who of the currently performing pianists would you count among
> > > > these?
>
> prominence happened in the 1990s. And yes, he is a great pianist.
So Sokolov is the only name you can come up with?
If so, bad choice. He's been in Amsterdam in 1992, 1993, 1995, 1999,
2001, 2003 and since 2005 in every year.
Next try: Who are the many meesterpianisten that never appeared in
Riaskoff's series?
M. A.
td
> "pianomaven" wrote...
>
> > > > On Apr 5, 12:42 pm, "M. A." <not.for....@server.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > "td" wrote...
>
> > > > > > I think that many "Meesterpianisten" have never graced Markus
> > > > > > Riskoff's series.
>
> > > > > Who of the currently performing pianists would you count among
> > > > > these?
>
> > I did not see Sokolov in A'dam while I was there. His rise to
> > prominence happened in the 1990s. And yes, he is a great pianist.
>
> So Sokolov is the only name you can come up with?
I am waiting for a complete list of all the "meesterpianisten" who
have appeared in this series since its inception.
You really can't think that I would remember all those names, can you,
most of whom few had heard of before or since?
Didn't Wibi play for him? Has Lang Lang played for him?
> If so, bad choice. He's been in Amsterdam in 1992, 1993, 1995, 1999,
> 2001, 2003 and since 2005 in every year.
Not that I noticed. Must have slipped in the back door. Or I was out
of town.
I did always manage to hear him in Paris, however. Jeanine Rose has
him in her series all the time. I think, however, that he never
appeared in PIANO **** for Andre Furno. Those two are rivals for the
piano crowd.
TD
M. A.
>
> On Apr 5, 5:18 pm, "M. A." <not.for....@server.com> wrote:
> >
> > So Sokolov is the only name you can come up with?
>
> I am waiting for a complete list of all the "meesterpianisten"
> who have appeared in this series since its inception.
>
> You really can't think that I would remember all those names, can
> you, most of whom few had heard of before or since?
You're the person who claimed that many meesterpianisten have not appeared
in that series. If you need a complete list to back up your claim, then
happy hunting or compiling to you.
The point is: Either you back up your claim, or you shut up.
> Didn't Wibi play for him? Has Lang Lang played for him?
Whoever Wibi is. Lang Lang, yes.
M. A.
SPAM- @xs4all.nl HvT
>
> But the hundreds of others? Some of them, perhaps. All of them, no
> way. And that includes Von Eckhardstein, in my opinion. (WHAT was
> that jury in Brussels thinking?)
Where you there, that year? Did you hear him live? I did, and he was by far
the most interesting pianist of that year. Giordano was also a very good
candidate but not as outstanding.
Henk
SPAM- @xs4all.nl HvT
> I am waiting for a complete list of all the "meesterpianisten" who
> have appeared in this series since its inception.
I was referring to that list. It mentioned in every year's program.
> You really can't think that I would remember all those names, can you,
> most of whom few had heard of before or since?
>
> Didn't Wibi play for him? Has Lang Lang played for him?
Wibi didn't. He once said that Riaskoff could only hamper his career. Lang
Lang did.
Henk
SPAM- @xs4all.nl HvT
> we all have a right to our opinions and i certainly would not disagree
> with you if you feel as you do......
I know how to appreciate this, Ari. BTW, Volodos was amongst the 14
'meesterpianisten' I prefer to Lugansky.
Henk
bassppn
thank you for saying the above. We must all try to be civilized if
possible!
AB
bassppn
> On Apr 5, 4:03 pm, bassppn <abachr...@att.net> wrote:
>
> > you are too harsh on him...... he really is a sweet old fool who
> > periodically drinks too much
>
> You think so?
>
> How would you know?
>
> In any event, a glass of wine with dinner is probably too much for
> you. LOL.
>
> > Actually he is a bright bastard who uses his brains for the wrong
> > reasons and in the wrong ways.
>
> I deny that. I am not bright at all. Just persistent.
no, that is the pity of it all....... you are bright, but all for
naught.......
>
> As for bastard, I know for sure that my mother was my mother and my
> father was my father. They both raised me.
>
> Can you make the same statement?
>
> TD
I also was raised by both parents to better effect, obviously :-)
I retract the 'bastard' statement'.... lets revise your status to that
of a smart 'creep' and not involve your parents in this
discussion:-)
AB
pianomaven
> "td" wrote...
>
> > On Apr 5, 5:18 pm, "M. A." <not.for....@server.com> wrote:
>
> > > So Sokolov is the only name you can come up with?
>
> > I am waiting for a complete list of all the "meesterpianisten"
> > who have appeared in this series since its inception.
>
> > You really can't think that I would remember all those names, can
> > you, most of whom few had heard of before or since?
>
> You're the person who claimed that many meesterpianisten have not appeared
> in that series. If you need a complete list to back up your claim, then
> happy hunting or compiling to you.
I wouldn't waste my time. I didn't when I was there. Why would I now?
>
> The point is: Either you back up your claim, or you shut up.
>
> > Didn't Wibi play for him? Has Lang Lang played for him?
>
> Whoever Wibi is. Lang Lang, yes.
I rest my case.
Meesterpianisten, indeed.
TD
pianomaven
> pianomaven wrote:
>
> > But the hundreds of others? Some of them, perhaps. All of them, no
> > way. And that includes Von Eckhardstein, in my opinion. (WHAT was
> > that jury in Brussels thinking?)
>
> Where you there, that year? Did you hear him live? I did, and he was by far
> the most interesting pianist of that year.
No. I was not there. I did not hear him live. I did, however, receive
the recordings of his participation. Hmmmmm. And since then none of
the recordings he has made have made a positive impression on me.
Giordano has made some interesting recordings since then, I think.
Have you heard them?
TD
pianomaven
LOL. Well, Wibi would certainly know about career management.
> Lang Lang did.
I saw that. But of course.
Lang Lang and his travelling circus.
Meesterpianisten.
I see.
It's so nice when someone else makes my points for me.
TD
pianomaven
> On Apr 5, 4:46 pm, td <tomdedea...@mac.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Apr 5, 4:03 pm, bassppn <abachr...@att.net> wrote:
>
> > > you are too harsh on him...... he really is a sweet old fool who
> > > periodically drinks too much
>
> > You think so?
>
> > How would you know?
>
> > In any event, a glass of wine with dinner is probably too much for
> > you. LOL.
>
> > > Actually he is a bright bastard who uses his brains for the wrong
> > > reasons and in the wrong ways.
>
> > I deny that. I am not bright at all. Just persistent.
>
> no, that is the pity of it all....... you are bright, but all for
> naught.......
>
>
>
> > As for bastard, I know for sure that my mother was my mother and my
> > father was my father. They both raised me.
>
> > Can you make the same statement?
>
> > TD
>
> I also was raised by both parents to better effect, obviously
There you go drawing unfounded conclusions again.
> I retract the 'bastard' statement'.... lets revise your status to that
> of a smart 'creep' and not involve your parents in this
> discussion
In any event they would probably grab you by the testicles and throw
you through the window.
Anyway, we dealt with the creep statement. I walk very tall, Arri. I
do, however, know some very slimy people who crawl and creep around
this place. Funny thing is that they walk tall elsewhere. What is it
about RMCR that brings out the worst in some people?
You should come here and post and just imagine that you are still
posting at Great PIanists or The Dead Pianists Society. We would all
be much happier, I think, and you would not look so small.
TD
bassppn
> > I retract the 'bastard' statement'.... lets revise your status to that
> > of a smart 'creep' and not involve your parents in this
> > discussion
>
> In any event they would probably grab you by the testicles and throw
> you through the window.
I suspect that your parents pursued a higher standard of behaviour and
were just unlucky with you...... If they had grabbed your inadquate
testicles and thrown you out of the house it would have been better
for all concerned.
Anyway, we dealt with the creep statement. I walk very tall, Arri. I
> do, however, know some very slimy people who crawl and creep around
> this place.
so did Neanderthals 'walk tall'..... suspect evolution fucked up when
it came to you:-)
Funny thing is that they walk tall elsewhere. What is it
> about RMCR that brings out the worst in some people?
it is that some of the worst people infect RMCR, and you are the on
the top of that list..........
You should come here and post and just imagine that you are still
> posting at Great PIanists or The Dead Pianists Society. We would all
> be much happier, I think, and you would not look so small.
nothing makes you happy except when you listen to the Great Brendel or
Hatto or when you put down the super talent Volodos..... (or of course
when you drink a glass of Vodka)
AB
SPAM- @xs4all.nl HvT
> Giordano has made some interesting recordings since then, I think.
> Have you heard them?
I have one recording of Giordano with a Beethoven sonata. The other
recordings I did order but cancelled after hearing the exhorbitant costs of
postage and packaging. He was an interesting participant in 2003, a very
introverted one.
Henk
M. A.
> On Apr 5, 7:17 pm, "M. A." <not.for....@server.com> wrote:
> >
> > "td" wrote...
> > >
> > > On Apr 5, 5:18 pm, "M. A." <not.for....@server.com> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > So Sokolov is the only name you can come up with?
> > >
> > > I am waiting for a complete list of all the "meesterpianisten"
> > > who have appeared in this series since its inception.
> > >
> > > You really can't think that I would remember all those names, can
> > > you, most of whom few had heard of before or since?
> >
> > You're the person who claimed that many meesterpianisten have not
> > appeared in that series. If you need a complete list to back up your
> > claim, then happy hunting or compiling to you.
>
> I wouldn't waste my time. I didn't when I was there. Why would I now?
>
> > The point is: Either you back up your claim, or you shut up.
>
And you lost. Don't go to court with bogus claims.
M. A.
td
> You should come here and post and just imagine that you are still
>
> > posting at Great PIanists or The Dead Pianists Society. We would all
> > be much happier, I think, and you would not look so small.
>
> nothing makes you happy except when you listen to the Great Brendel or
> Hatto or when you put down the super talent Volodos..... (or of course
> when you drink a glass of Vodka)
It is so amazing to me that my lack of interest in Volodos strikes you
right in the heart, like a stake driven clear through it. What can it
possibly matter to you one way or the other. I give little thought to
your inability to see Brendel's greatness, just as I give little
thought to HCS's inability to see the same in Sviatoslav Richter. I
put it down to blind spots.
TD
td
There was no "claim", just an opinion, which I retain. Unfortunately,
you have nothing to counter the claim but another opinion and a few
obviously great pianists. It's the string of also-rans, never could
runs, and no-hopers that you overlook.
I overlook them too, but I, on the other hand, don't claim that they
are "meesterpianisten"!
TD
td
My list of authentic "master-pianists" would contain the following 33
pianists who have appeared at least once in this series. Some of these
are also authentic "great pianists", in my opinion:
Pierre-Laurent Aimard
Vladimir Ashkenazy
Daniel Barenboim
Boris Berezovsky
Lazar Berman
Jorge Bolet
Alfred Brendel
Shura Cherkassky
Nelson Freire
Bruno Leonardo Gelber
Cyprien Katsaris
Evgeny Kissin
Zoltán Kocsis
Evgeny Koroliov
Anton Kuerti
Alicia de Larrocha
Radu Lupu
Ivan Moravec
Murray Perahia
Maria João Pires
Mikhail Pletnev
Ivo Pogorelich
Maurizio Pollini
Jorge Luis Prats
András Schiff
Grigory Sokolov ;
Maria Tipo
Mitsuko Uchida
Eliso Virsaladze
Earl Wild
Christian Zacharias
Krystian Zimerman
My list would not include the following 47 names:
Piotr Anderszewski
Leif Ove Andsnes
Emanuel Ax
Jonathan Biss
Rafał Blechacz
Ronald Brautigam
Yefim Bronfman
Gianluca Cascioli
Aldo Ciccolini
Bella Davidovich
Severin von Eckardstein
Till Fellner
David Fray
Alexander Gavrylyuk
Jonathan Gilad
Richard Goode
Hélène Grimaud
Horacio Gutierrez ;
Michael Kieran Harvey
Stephen Hough
Anna Kravtchenko
Katia & Marielle Labeque
Marc Laforet
Lang Lang
Yundi Li
Louis Lortie
Andrea Lucchesini
Nikolai Lugansky
Olli Mustonen
Enrico Pace
Igor Roma
Ricardo Castro
Jean-Bernard Pommier
A. Rabinovich
Dezsö Ránki
Igor Roma
Alexander Romanovsky
György Sándor
Yevgeny Sudbin
Jean-Yves Thibaudet
Alexander Toradze
Simon Trpčeski
Alexei Volodin
Arcadi Volodos
Lilia Zilberstein
Just my opinion, of course. What Ricardo Castro is doing in a series
with Krystian Zimerman is simply beyond me. They are not comparable.
TD
bassppn
I laugh at your "blind spot".......Volodos. BTW- my heart, even at
this late date is fine!!
AB
graham
"td" <tomde...@mac.com> wrote in message
news:c740f6b0-5f5e-4ada...@v8g2000yqb.googlegroups.com...
Rafal Blechacz
Simon Trpceski
Alexei Volodin
Arcadi Volodos
Lilia Zilberstein
------------------------------------------------------
Nor, I take it, "Twinkletoes".
td
> "td" <tomdedea...@mac.com> wrote in message
Not sure who you mean. Were you thinking of the world's greatest Bach
interpreter, by any chance?
But it is an utter disgrace that Marc-Andre Hamelin has never appeared
in this series. And Alexander Rabinovich is a "meesterpianisten"? LOL.
Indeed, the decision not to include MAH makes the whole thing seem a
little like a record company/competition/management marketing concept.
Even Nelson Freire ONLY appeared after he had been signed by Decca,
although he had appeared in Amsterdam for years under Samama, who died
suddenly leaving the field to Riaskoff. I once met Samama in Fort
Worth at the Van Cliburn Competition. A fascinating man brimming with
imagination and enthusiasm.
It has to be said that MR is not the only impresario to take musicians
in such a series who are ready-made, so to speak. Off the rack. Here
in Canada some do precisely the same thing. The musical mafia at work.
TD
M. A.
>
> On Apr 6, 10:23 am, "M. A." <not.for....@server.com> wrote:
> > "pianomaven" wrote...
> > >
> > > On Apr 5, 7:17 pm, "M. A." <not.for....@server.com> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > "td" wrote...
> > > > >
> > > > > On Apr 5, 5:18 pm, "M. A." <not.for....@server.com> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > So Sokolov is the only name you can come up with?
> > > > >
> > > > > I am waiting for a complete list of all the "meesterpianisten"
> > > > > who have appeared in this series since its inception.
> > > > >
> > > > > You really can't think that I would remember all those names,
> > > > > can you, most of whom few had heard of before or since?
> > > >
> > > > You're the person who claimed that many meesterpianisten have not
> > > > appeared in that series. If you need a complete list to back up
> > > > your claim, then happy hunting or compiling to you.
> > >
> > > I wouldn't waste my time. I didn't when I was there. Why would I
> > > now?
> > >
> > > > The point is: Either you back up your claim, or you shut up.
> > >
> > > I rest my case.
> >
> > And you lost. Don't go to court with bogus claims.
>
> There was no "claim", just an opinion, which I retain.
Let me guide you through this in very easy steps:
Everybody is entitled to their personal *opinion* who qualifies as a
"meesterpianist".
Whether these people played in Amsterdam is a matter of *fact*, not an
opinion.
You said that many "meesterpianisten" never played there.
So there must be a number of pianists that in your *opinion* are
"meesterpianisten", but which in *fact* never played in Amsterdam.
Two possibilities:
(1) Either you can name a few pianists that you deem "meesterpianisten"
who in fact never played in Amsterdam. Then I'm curious who they are.
(2) Or all pianists that you deem "meesterpianisten" actually did play in
Amsterdam at some point. Then you got your facts wrong.
Your example of Sokolov suggests that the latter is more likely.
> Unfortunately, you have nothing to counter the claim but another
> opinion and a few obviously great pianists. It's the string of
> also-rans, never could runs, and no-hopers that you overlook.
>
> I overlook them too, but I, on the other hand, don't claim that they
> are "meesterpianisten"!
Review my posts. I never claimed any such thing. Particularly did I
neither claim that only meesterpianisten played there nor that Lang Lang
is a meesterpianist.
M. A.
wimpie
>
>
>
>
>
> > "pianomaven" wrote...
>
> > > > > On Apr 5, 12:42 pm, "M. A." <not.for....@server.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > > "td" wrote...
>
> > > > > > > I think that many "Meesterpianisten" have never graced Markus
> > > > > > > Riskoff's series.
>
> > > > > > Who of the currently performing pianists would you count among
> > > > > > these?
>
> > > I did not see Sokolov in A'dam while I was there. His rise to
> > > prominence happened in the 1990s. And yes, he is a great pianist.
>
> > So Sokolov is the only name you can come up with?
>
> I am waiting for a complete list of all the "meesterpianisten" who
> have appeared in this series since its inception.
>
> You really can't think that I would remember all those names, can you,
> most of whom few had heard of before or since?
>
> Didn't Wibi play for him? Has Lang Lang played for him?
>
You can see the list of all pianists who played since the first season
on www.meesterpianisten.nl
No, Wibi didn't play in this series, Lang Lang did and it was awful.
W.
M. A.
>
> (1) Either you can name a few pianists that you deem
> "meesterpianisten" who in fact never played in Amsterdam. Then I'm
> curious who they are.
>
> (2) Or all pianists that you deem "meesterpianisten" actually did
> play in Amsterdam at some point. Then you got your facts wrong.
Just saw your other post elsewhere in this thread.
You found no less than 33 pianists who you call "meesterpianisten" and who
actually did play in Amsterdam.
As for "meesterpianisten" who haven't performed there, so far you only
named Hamelin.
Any others?
M. A.
M. A.
> On Apr 6, 12:27 am, td <tomdedea...@mac.com> wrote:
> >
> > Didn't Wibi play for him? Has Lang Lang played for him?
>
Help me, Willem, who is Wibi? I have never heard of this name.
M. A.
wimpie
>
> - Show quoted text -
Rabinovich only played in the series because he was a package deal
with Argerich of course!
You haven't heard Barenboim's last (all Chopin) recital (last year),
otherwise that would have been beyond you too! I think it was the
worst recital I have ever heard and definitely not worth being
included in a series called "Meesterpianisten".
W,.
wimpie
> in such a series who are ready-made, so to speak. Off the rack. Here
> in Canada some do precisely the same thing. The musical mafia at work.
>
>
Nonsense. MR leaves the floor every year to young pianists who are no
household names yet; e,.g Jonathan Gilad played in the series when he
was only 21 and hardly an established pianist. At least MR also asks
young unknown pianists, I can't recall Furno does the same thing in
Paris for piano ****
W.
wimpie
Wibi Soerjadi, a Dutch pianists who won 3rd prize at the 1989 Liszt
Festival in Utrecht. Then he made a number of records for the late
Philips Classics label (Saint Seans concertos, Rachmaninov Concertos,
Liszt/Chopin recitals). He is sort of "hors concours" and even rents
concert halls himself since he is not regularly engaged by orchestras.
The other day, I saw a programme about him on television where it was
mentioned that he rented.......... Carnegie Hall!!!
W.
wimpie
Kovacevich, Arnaldo Cohen, Louis Fernando Perez, Jean Efflam Bavouzet,
Alexandre Tharaud, to name just a few pianists whom I would think
worthy of playing in this series...
W.
graham
-------------------------------------------
Yes! She did, after all, train as a ballerina until her teens{:-)
-------------------------------------------
But it is an utter disgrace that Marc-Andre Hamelin has never appeared
in this series. And Alexander Rabinovich is a "meesterpianisten"? LOL.
Indeed, the decision not to include MAH makes the whole thing seem a
little like a record company/competition/management marketing concept.
Even Nelson Freire ONLY appeared after he had been signed by Decca,
although he had appeared in Amsterdam for years under Samama, who died
suddenly leaving the field to Riaskoff. I once met Samama in Fort
Worth at the Van Cliburn Competition. A fascinating man brimming with
imagination and enthusiasm.
It has to be said that MR is not the only impresario to take musicians
in such a series who are ready-made, so to speak. Off the rack. Here
in Canada some do precisely the same thing. The musical mafia at work.
-----------------------------------------------------
So MR is possibly unable to recognize talent, playing it safe with "names"
to fill the seats
pianomaven
But he's a "meesterpianist"! How could it be awful?
Perhaps the title should be amateurpianisten?
TD
pianomaven
Scads.
But this should be obvious to anyone who knows the piano world.
Here are a few names to conjur with. Hardly exhaustive, but
indicative.
Argerich(solo), Watts, Fleisher, Collard, Beroff, LeSage, Pedroni,
Buchbinder, Petrov, Gavrilov, Bunin, Fou Ts'ong, Schuch, Badura-
Skoda, etc.
The list is considerable, in my opinion. Note that I am not suggesting
that all those overlooked are "great" pianists, but they do fit the
title of the series. But frankly it is not my obligation to do
Riaskoff's work for him.
Similarly, I will also not do that for Andrew Rose of Pristine, who
has posed a similar question.
TD
pianomaven
And what is the excuse for all the others? Thibaudet? Castro? Roma?
Yundi?
> You haven't heard Barenboim's last (all Chopin) recital (last year),
> otherwise that would have been beyond you too! I think it was the
> worst recital I have ever heard and definitely not worth being
> included in a series called "Meesterpianisten".
I heard him three years ago. One of the greatest piano recital in
recent years, in my opinion. Perhaps he was ill?
TD
pianomaven
I have nothing against young pianists. Indeed, it is my current focus.
They should, however, not be named master pianists. They're
beginners!!!!
TD
pianomaven
True.
And so did Alfred Brendel for about 20 years.
It's available.
As is the Concertgebouw.
TD
pianomaven
Kovacevich, clearly. Too soon for Perez. Tharaud and Bavouzet join a
raft of French pianists overlooked by MR.
TD
pianomaven
> > Evgeny Koroliov
> > Anton Kuerti
> > Alicia de Larrocha
> > Radu Lupu
> > Ivan Moravec
> > Murray Perahia
> > Mikhail Pletnev
> > Ivo Pogorelich
> > Maurizio Pollini
> > Jorge Luis Prats
> > Grigory Sokolov ;
> > Maria Tipo
> > Mitsuko Uchida
> > Eliso Virsaladze
> > Earl Wild
> > Christian Zacharias
> > Krystian Zimerman
>
> > My list would not include the following 47 names:
>
> > Piotr Anderszewski
> > Leif Ove Andsnes
> > Emanuel Ax
> > Jonathan Biss
> > Rafal Blechacz
> > Ronald Brautigam
> > Yefim Bronfman
> > Gianluca Cascioli
> > Aldo Ciccolini
> > Bella Davidovich
> > Severin von Eckardstein
> > Till Fellner
> > David Fray
> > Alexander Gavrylyuk
> > Jonathan Gilad
> > Richard Goode
> > Horacio Gutierrez ;
> > Michael Kieran Harvey
> > Stephen Hough
> > Anna Kravtchenko
> > Katia & Marielle Labeque
> > Marc Laforet
> > Lang Lang
> > Yundi Li
> > Louis Lortie
> > Andrea Lucchesini
> > Nikolai Lugansky
> > Olli Mustonen
> > Enrico Pace
> > Igor Roma
> > Ricardo Castro
> > Jean-Bernard Pommier
> > A. Rabinovich
> > Igor Roma
> > Alexander Romanovsky
> > Gy rgy S ndor
He "recognized" the talent of Anton Kuerti only when he filled in for
a cancellation. Anton has been a significant pianist for decades. He's
in his 70s. A bit late, I would say. But better late than never.
TD
wimpie
So a young pianist can't be a master pianist? A lot of people agreed
that probably Kissin's best disc was his first one: the Chopin
concertos (I tend to agree, I like much less what he does nowadays,
something happened to his tone which is often loud and even ugly now).
Why can't someone's first disc be a master work according to you?
There are more exemples of this: one of Ashkenazy's first discs were
the Chopin Etudes in 1958 (when he was only 21 years old) and I have
seldom heard them better played, Argerich's first disc is legendary, I
heard a recording of Pollini in the Chopin Etudes at age 14 that was
flawless, Menuhin played probably better than ever at age 12, Hillary
Hahn made her debuts with Bach Partitas that were unanimously praised,
Lise de la Salle showed a lot of maturity in Bach at 18.....
Should I go on?
W.
pianomaven
> On Apr 7, 12:10 pm, pianomaven <1pianoma...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Apr 6, 6:17 pm, wimpie <willembo...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > On Apr 6, 11:34 pm, td <tomdedea...@mac.com> wrote:
>
> > > > It has to be said that MR is not the only impresario to take musicians
> > > > in such a series who are ready-made, so to speak. Off the rack. Here
> > > > in Canada some do precisely the same thing. The musical mafia at work.
>
> > > > TD- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > Nonsense. MR leaves the floor every year to young pianists who are no
> > > household names yet; e,.g Jonathan Gilad played in the series when he
> > > was only 21 and hardly an established pianist. At least MR also asks
> > > young unknown pianists, I can't recall Furno does the same thing in
> > > Paris for piano ****
>
> > I have nothing against young pianists. Indeed, it is my current focus.
> > They should, however, not be named master pianists. They're
> > beginners!!!!
>
> > TD
>
> So a young pianist can't be a master pianist? A lot of people agreed
> that probably Kissin's best disc was his first one: the Chopin
> concertos (I tend to agree, I like much less what he does nowadays,
> something happened to his tone which is often loud and even ugly now).
There are exceptions to every rule. The young Menuhin, Heifetz,
Kissin, Wang, Grosvenor (perhaps), Argerich, etc.
> Why can't someone's first disc be a master work according to you?
Please don't put words in my mouth.
TD
Kip Williams
> There are more exemples of this: one of Ashkenazy's first discs were
> the Chopin Etudes in 1958 (when he was only 21 years old) and I have
> seldom heard them better played,
That can't be the same as the Everest LP I bought in the 70s then. He
plays them fast, but never gets more than one sixteenth of an inch into
the keys. He sounds like he's anxious to clock out and get somewhere.
That was when I realized that I didn't enjoy many of the Ashkenazy disks
I had, and I started looking for other artists.
An exception was his Schumann Symphonic Etudes. I continued listening
happily to that recording for years, until I upgraded for technical
reasons to Schiff's CD of them.
Normally, if a pianist turns conductor, I account it as a loss. With
Ashkenazy, I wished him well.
Kip W
JohnGavin
> wimpie wrote:
> > There are more exemples of this: one of Ashkenazy's first discs were
> > the Chopin Etudes in 1958 (when he was only 21 years old) and I have
> > seldom heard them better played,
>
> That can't be the same as the Everest LP I bought in the 70s then. He
> plays them fast, but never gets more than one sixteenth of an inch into
> the keys. He sounds like he's anxious to clock out and get somewhere.
> That was when I realized that I didn't enjoy many of the Ashkenazy disks
> I had, and I started looking for other artists.
>
He's an unbelievably huge talent, but this always remained a problem
for me. I think it got worse as time went on.
The best complete Chopin Etudes for me remains Pollini's recording.
>
Kip Williams
> There are more exemples of this: one of Ashkenazy's first discs were
> the Chopin Etudes in 1958 (when he was only 21 years old) and I have
> seldom heard them better played,
That can't be the same as the Everest LP I bought in the 70s then. He
plays them fast, but never gets more than one sixteenth of an inch into
the keys. He sounds like he's anxious to clock out and get somewhere.
That was when I realized that I didn't enjoy many of the Ashkenazy disks
I had, and I started looking for other artists.
An exception was his Schumann Symphonic Etudes. I continued listening
Dufus
I must say that of all the recordings of my fav Beethoven piano
sonata, Op.109, Ashkenazy's on Decca London ( 1981 ?) remains my first
choice.
Kip Williams
Okay, if I'm faced with the choice of selecting it one day, I hope I'll
remember what you said. ("Was that 106 or 110?")
Seriously, I mostly found him deficient in that Chopin and some
Prokofiev piano concertos, but that was enough to make me wary. I
welcome information about his good performances.
Kip W
pianomaven
> wimpie wrote:
> > There are more exemples of this: one of Ashkenazy's first discs were
> > the Chopin Etudes in 1958 (when he was only 21 years old) and I have
> > seldom heard them better played,
>
> That can't be the same as the Everest LP I bought in the 70s then. He
> plays them fast, but never gets more than one sixteenth of an inch into
> the keys. He sounds like he's anxious to clock out and get somewhere.
> That was when I realized that I didn't enjoy many of the Ashkenazy disks
> I had, and I started looking for other artists.
>
> An exception was his Schumann Symphonic Etudes. I continued listening
> happily to that recording for years, until I upgraded for technical
> reasons to Schiff's CD of them.
But downgraded musically.
TD
Alan Cooper
news:KZHnp.9847$zn....@newsfe19.iad:
Aside from the first set of Chopin Etudes, do you know the two "Young Ashkanazy"
volumes on Testament? If you can listen to "Feux Follets" in vol. 2 without being
wowed, you're a tough person to impress :-) Among his Deccas, I recommend the Mozart
Concerti ## 8 and 9 and Sonatas K.310 and K.576--the latter especially.
AC
SPAM- @xs4all.nl HvT
Young Ashkenazy was a phenomenal performer, as the Testament volumes prove -
IMHO, of course.
Henk
wimpie
>
> - Show quoted text -
I heard the "old" Ashkenazy perform Gaspard de la nuit in 2001, well
show me any conductor (because that's what he was mainly doing at the
time!) who can pull off a difficult piece like this! It was simply
stunning.
W.
pianomaven
> Kip Williams <k...@rochester.rr.com> wrote innews:KZHnp.9847$zn....@newsfe19.iad:
>
> > Dufus wrote:
> >> On Apr 8, 9:21 am, Kip Williams<k...@rochester.rr.com> wrote:
>
> >> I must say that of all the recordings of my fav Beethoven piano
> >> sonata, Op.109, Ashkenazy's on Decca London ( 1981 ?) remains
> >> my first choice.
>
> > Okay, if I'm faced with the choice of selecting it one day, I
> > hope I'll remember what you said. ("Was that 106 or 110?")
>
> > Seriously, I mostly found him deficient in that Chopin and some
> > Prokofiev piano concertos, but that was enough to make me wary.
> > I welcome information about his good performances.
>
> Aside from the first set of Chopin Etudes, do you know the two "Young Ashkanazy"
> volumes on Testament? If you can listen to "Feux Follets" in vol. 2 without being
> wowed, you're a tough person to impress
Agreed.
TD
pianomaven
Yes. Barenboim.
His recital in Toronto three years ago was one of the greatest
recitals I have ever heard.
TD
Kip Williams
> Aside from the first set of Chopin Etudes, do you know the two "Young Ashkanazy"
> volumes on Testament? If you can listen to "Feux Follets" in vol. 2 without being
> wowed, you're a tough person to impress :-) Among his Deccas, I recommend the Mozart
> Concerti ## 8 and 9 and Sonatas K.310 and K.576--the latter especially.
I confess my ignorance. So many records, and I haven't even listened to
all the ones I have.
K576 is my favorite Mozart, just about. I might have to see if I can
find that. I'm happy with the recording I have, but that doesn't mean I
couldn't push it off the iPod for a really great recording.
Kip W
td
Landowska.
TD
wimpie
>
> - Show quoted text -
Did Barenboim ever play Gaspard de la nuit? Don't think so! Based on
his very shaky technical performance of February last year (when I
heard him) I would say that he hasn't the technique to play Gaspard!!
W.
pianomaven
Not thinking so doesn't make it so, unfortunately.
Like Arrau Barenboim plays or has played the entire repertoire for
piano. He may not choose to play a lot of that repertoire in public,
but I don't blame him.
Gaspard is only as good as it can be played.
Based on
> his very shaky technical performance of February last year (when I
> heard him) I would say that he hasn't the technique to play Gaspard!!
This is a joke, of course.
The problem is that you cannot "base" your opinion on one concert.
Moreover, he plays all the Bartok Concertos, which are more difficult
than anything Ravel ever wrote.
TD