Best Mahler 5th recording?
Daniel Kolle
What do you say is the best Mahler 5th? I have the Sony Essential
Classic one (the remastered copy), but I hear it is not that good. Or
did I hear wrong?
-Kolle; 15 A.A. #2035
Koji Kondo, Yo-Yo Ma, and Gustav Mahler are my Gods.
Sol L. Siegel
>What do you say is the best Mahler 5th? I have the Sony
>Essential Classic one (the remastered copy), but I hear it is
>not that good. Or did I hear wrong?
That's your decision. Really.
My own favorites are Levine (available cheap from mdt.co.uk),
the ancient Walter and either Bernstein, in about that order.
Wyn Morris (available even more cheaply from
cybermusicsurplus.com, and get his Knaben Wunderhorn
as well while you're at it) is another very credible option.
-Sol Siegel, Philadelphia, PA
--------------------
"I am sure of very little, and I shouldn't be surprised if those things were
wrong." - Clarence Darrow
--------------------
(Remove "dammspam" from the end of my e-mail address to respond.)
Matthew Silverstein
> What do you say is the best Mahler 5th? I have the Sony Essential
> Classic one (the remastered copy), but I hear it is not that good. Or
> did I hear wrong?
There is no "best" recording. My favorites are probably Bernstein/VPO on
Deutsche Gramophon, Abbado/BPO on Deutsche Gramophon, and Gatti/RPO on . . . I
can't remember the label. If I could keep only one, it would probably be
Bernstein.
Matty
sch...@gefen.cc.biu.ac.il
: Daniel Kolle DKo...@hotmail.com writes:
:>What do you say is the best Mahler 5th? I have the Sony
:>Essential Classic one (the remastered copy), but I hear it is
:>not that good. Or did I hear wrong?
:
: That's your decision. Really.
:
: My own favorites are Levine (available cheap from mdt.co.uk),
: the ancient Walter and either Bernstein, in about that order.
My two favorite performances are the 1947 Walter and the Kubelik/BRSO.
Two very different interpretations, but both are classics.
To the original poster: many people are probably going to tell you that
the "best" Mahler 5th is Barbirolli's. Do not believe them.
-----
Richard Schultz sch...@mail.biu.ac.il
Department of Chemistry, Bar-Ilan University, Ramat-Gan, Israel
Opinions expressed are mine alone, and not those of Bar-Ilan University
-----
"We cannot see how any of his music can long survive him."
-- From the New York Daily Tribune obituary of Gustav Mahler
ulvi
news:olleavsi600mfojqr...@4ax.com:
>
> What do you say is the best Mahler 5th? I have the Sony Essential
> Classic one (the remastered copy), but I hear it is not that good. Or
> did I hear wrong?
Some great recordings: Sinopoli/DG, Bernstein/VPO, Shipway/(Royal
Classics?), Bertini/EMI, and Walter/Sony (mono). Scherchen/(Harmonia
Mundi?) for eccentric.
Ulvi
Ray Hall
news:olleavsi600mfojqr...@4ax.com...
|
| What do you say is the best Mahler 5th? I have the Sony Essential
| Classic one (the remastered copy), but I hear it is not that good. Or
| did I hear wrong?
A very good, if not superb, cheap as chips M5 is the Shipway/RPO performance
which is now on Rajon in Australia, and was on the RPO series that has now
disappeared? There is never really a *best* btw.
Bernstein/DG is very good, and the VPO actually manage to play this rather
well (surprising really), but for a more expansive view, then Barbirolli on
an EMI GROC series is excellent, and this performance often manages to
divide critical opinion. I think it to be very good, and a good choice
especially if one is a Barbirolli fan, and intend to pursue his other Mahler
recordings.
Regards,
# http://www.users.bigpond.com/hallraylily/index.html
See You Tamara (Ozzy Osbourne)
Ray, Taree, NSW
Eddie LeBaron
>
> What do you say is the best Mahler 5th? I have the Sony Essential
> Classic one (the remastered copy), but I hear it is not that good. Or
> did I hear wrong?
>
>
> -Kolle; 15 A.A. #2035
If you like your Mahler dramatic with spectacular playing, you can hardly
do better than Solti's first recording with the CSO. A good mainstream
recording is Abaddo's BPO recording. For an expansive, slow-tempos
version, Barbarroli's.
Etty Tamir
RCA release). He is the king of balance and detail. Very impressive.
I also like Gatti (it's on Conifer, RCA), Sinopoli and Chailly, but based on
recent comparison, Levine wins.
Yoram
"Daniel Kolle" <DKo...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:olleavsi600mfojqr...@4ax.com...
>
Tony Duggan
> Classic one (the remastered copy), but I hear it is not that good. Or
> did I hear wrong?
Try my Mahler Recordings Survey for this symphony:
http://www.musicweb.uk.net/Mahler/Mahler5.htm
Rudolf Barshai comes out on top with Rudolf Schwarz, Frank Shipway, John
Barbirolli and Bruno walter not far behind.
--
Tony Duggan, England.
dug...@scribble.freeserve.co.uk
Mahler CD recordings survey is at:
http://www.musicweb.uk.net/Mahler/index.html
sch...@gefen.cc.biu.ac.il
: Try my Mahler Recordings Survey for this symphony:
:
: http://www.musicweb.uk.net/Mahler/Mahler5.htm
:
: Rudolf Barshai comes out on top with Rudolf Schwarz, Frank Shipway, John
: Barbirolli and Bruno walter not far behind.
Which shows why one shouldn't believe everything that one reads.
nico assinck
> What do you say is the best Mahler 5th? I have the Sony Essential
> Classic one (the remastered copy), but I hear it is not that good. Or
> did I hear wrong?
personally, i especially like:
- Abbado (with the Chicago Symphony Orchestra)
- Rudolf Barshai, who got me to understand the last movement a lot
better.
I once heard the Barbirolli, and I don't understand that one at all. God
knows what he was up to, but this is definitely not my Mahler.
greetings,
Nico Assinck
Thomas Heilman
It's good to see Scherchen mentioned here. I agree, and the Shipway.
And permit me to add Inoue/RPO. Superb.
However, if I may steer you into pirated waters briefly, my favorite
performance of the work is a Jansons\Pittsburgh Symphony performance,
this at a Berlin Festival, I believe, though I may be mistaken. The
level of sustained tenstion in the first movement is most impressive.
Best,
Tom Heilman
Michael Weston
thei...@aol.com (Thomas Heilman) wrote:
> It's good to see Scherchen mentioned here. I agree, and the Shipway.
> And permit me to add Inoue/RPO. Superb.
> However, if I may steer you into pirated waters briefly, my favorite
> performance of the work is a Jansons\Pittsburgh Symphony performance,
> this at a Berlin Festival, I believe, though I may be mistaken. The
> level of sustained tenstion in the first movement is most impressive.
>
> Best,
>
> Tom Heilman
I'm not listening to a mislabeled performance, I hope. Maybe I should
pull out some timings for the cracked notes in the horns..
Michael Weston
wrote:
Richard, I have just diagnosed you with Obsessive-Hurwitzian Disorder,
previously known as WASDS- Wake All Sleeping Dogs Syndrome. Studies
show that it can be dealt with through a long vacation or, surprisingly,
a drink a day. Best wishes.
As for myself, Shipway is an ungeatable bargain, Gatti sounds good, too.
I've been listening to a live Jansons/BPO performance that really
crackles.
Michael
HPLeft
"Daniel Kolle" <DKo...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:olleavsi600mfojqr...@4ax.com...
>
> What do you say is the best Mahler 5th? I have the Sony Essential
> Classic one (the remastered copy), but I hear it is not that good. Or
> did I hear wrong?
Well, since we're all going on the record here, I like the Barbirolli as a
solid alternative -- a very 'British' Mahler 5, idiosyncratic to be sure,
but quite enjoyable as a performance. I also like the completely dissimilar
Barshai and Tennstedt (my dual references). Haven't heard Lenny DG in quite
a while (although I own it), but I remember thinking it was a fine
performance right up to the Rondo finale, and liking his VPO performance for
Unitel (on video, from the 70s) a bit more. I also thought the CBS/NYP
Bernstein was rather hair raising, but didn't quite hold together (at least
for me). The very first Mahler 5 I owned was Schwarz/LSO, which struck me
then (and would probably now) as too unyielding -- and would probably strike
several other contributors to this list as being better. The Schwarz was
the only Mahler 5 available on a single LP for many years, well into the mid
80s (and the end of the LP era). But I typically prefer my Mahler to be a
bit more expansive, and conductors who allow the music to breathe a bit
more. For instance, I remember not liking the original Solti performance
much for that reason, and prefer his CSO remake to the LSO original.
Haven't heard the Shipway yet, but at that price (and since he apparently
does allow the Adagietto to breathe...), it might an ideal blend of both the
expansive and more metronomically correct approaches. I will have to find a
copy and give it a listen.
Matt C
Tony Movshon
> "Daniel Kolle" <DKo...@hotmail.com> wrote
>>Classic one (the remastered copy), but I hear it is not that good. Or
>>did I hear wrong?
>
> Well, since we're all going on the record here, I like the Barbirolli as a
> solid alternative -- a very 'British' Mahler 5
I read that several times, and then gave up. What is "British" about the
Barbirolli M5?
Tony Movshon
mov...@nyu.edu
Simon Roberts
>
>
>What do you say is the best Mahler 5th? I have the Sony Essential
>Classic one (the remastered copy), but I hear it is not that good. Or
>did I hear wrong?
I don't know which performance that is. Maazel? If so, I've not heard it. But
you presumably have, and all that should matter to you is whether you like
it....
My vote among recent recordings would go to Gatti's (not Barshai's; would so
much be made of it were it not a remarkably good youth orchestra?), though I
suspect my first choice would still be Morris (in part, but not solely, because
to these ears his is the most passionate fast adagietto in good sound). I also
wouldn't want to be without Solti I for the second movement, Scherchen/Harmonia
Mundi for the most affecting slow performance of the adagietto I've encountered,
and one or two others. I continue to be relieved to see I'm not alone in not
"getting" Barbirolli's.
Simon
sch...@gefen.cc.biu.ac.il
: I read that several times, and then gave up. What is "British" about the
: Barbirolli M5?
It is stodgy, boring, and fundamentally wrong-headed?
HPLeft
"Tony Movshon" <mov...@nyu.edu> wrote in message
news:3EA7DBE4...@nyu.edu...
It's not hyper-dramatic Mahler, or hyper-neurotic Mahler, but measured, ripe
and relaxed. It is the kind of performance that I often mentally associate
British conductors (like Boult or Goodall) giving with other composers, and
British critics enjoying. Hence, my use of the word. It is eminently
centrist and warm, and not extreme in any way. Are those characteristics
specifically British? Well, they strike me as being more stylistically
British than prototypically American or German, for instance.
Matt C
Heck51
"What do you say is the best Mahler 5th? "
either Solti/CSO ['70,'90] is superb. the Abbado/CSO on DG is great
also - great sound and spectacular playing - it may be OOP.
for historical interest - Walter/NYPO from 1947 is a classic.
Tony Movshon
> "Tony Movshon" <mov...@nyu.edu> wrote
>
> It's not hyper-dramatic Mahler, or hyper-neurotic Mahler, but measured, ripe
> and relaxed. It is the kind of performance that I often mentally associate
> British conductors (like Boult or Goodall) giving with other composers, and
> British critics enjoying. Hence, my use of the word. It is eminently
> centrist and warm, and not extreme in any way.
I see. I have to differ -- I find it extreme in its slowness (which need not
matter) and its massiveness and (if you don't care for it) stodginess. It's
also pretty sloppy. Perhaps it is British in a quasi-culinary sense?
I still keep it and quite like it, but I think it's hardly "central" and I
understand the opinion of those who loathe it. I can't agree that it belongs
on any recommended list, except in the "eccentric" category (British again, I
guess?).
Tony Movshon
mov...@nyu.edu
tiger_131074
HPLeft
> > It's not hyper-dramatic Mahler, or hyper-neurotic Mahler, but measured,
ripe
> > and relaxed. It is the kind of performance that I often mentally
associate
> > British conductors (like Boult or Goodall) giving with other composers,
and
> > British critics enjoying. Hence, my use of the word. It is eminently
> > centrist and warm, and not extreme in any way.
>
> I see. I have to differ -- I find it extreme in its slowness (which need
not
> matter) and its massiveness and (if you don't care for it) stodginess.
It's
> also pretty sloppy. Perhaps it is British in a quasi-culinary sense?
For me, after you've heard Ugorski's Op. 111, the concept of extreme
slowness will never be the same again. That, for instance, strikes me as
truly extreme. But, I take your point. Of course, I like 60s Klemperer
performances, which some people describe as too slow, and I take as
measured, and often fine (depending on the specific performance, of course).
> I still keep it and quite like it, but I think it's hardly "central" and I
> understand the opinion of those who loathe it. I can't agree that it
belongs
> on any recommended list, except in the "eccentric" category (British
again, I
> guess?).
Well, it is eccentric. I haven't done any kind of a survey of this, but I'm
curious if critical reaction to the performance has been radically different
among critics in different countries. Edward Greenfield has always
championed this performance, and now Tony (who strikes me as intellectually
honest, and not a "homer" in any way). Even Dave Hurwitz likes this
performance. It's certainly not the one I immediately reach for when I want
to hear Mahler 5 (that would be Tennstedt).
Matt C
Tom Daish
favourite interpretation to date, although the Abbado/BPO performance is
excellent too, although I found it to have less, well, soul, than the Rattle.
Technically brilliant, just lacking warmth at times. I'm sure I found the
Barbirolli rather dull, maybe I'm just not British enough?!
--
Tom
Soundtrack Express, nice...
www.soundtrack-express.com
--
ajb723
> Daniel wrote:
>
>> What do you say is the best Mahler 5th? I have the Sony Essential
>> Classic one (the remastered copy), but I hear it is not that good. Or
>> did I hear wrong?
>
My favorite remains in memory- Solti/CSO Carnegie Hall c. 1975. Excitement
and unbelievable playing regrettably not captured in either of his 2
recordings.
--
Alan
Kalman Rubinson
Agreed. An unforgetable experience.
Kal
Peter Allen
>> What is "British" about the
>> Barbirolli M5?
>
>It's not hyper-dramatic Mahler, or hyper-neurotic Mahler, but measured, ripe
>and relaxed. It is the kind of performance that I often mentally associate
>British conductors (like Boult
>
>Matt C
Fascinating. The last description I would think of for Barbirolli's
daringly slow but gut-wrenching first movement is "ripe and relaxed".
And I could never imagine Boult giving a performance like that.
How perceptions differ!
Peter
____________________________________________
Dr Peter Allen (p...@melbpc.org.au)
Melbourne PC User Group
____________________________________________
Vincent Ventrone
>Scherchen/(Harmonia Mundi?) for eccentric.
>
It is HM. Despite the massive cuts this is the recording I turn to most
often -- it is, to my ears, uniquely intense & compelling. No other
recording or live performance that I have heard is as involving as this one.
HPLeft
"Peter Allen" <p...@melbpc.org.au> wrote in message
news:m5agavs623nh9m31h...@4ax.com...
> On Thu, 24 Apr 2003 13:11:59 GMT, "HPLeft" <ma...@hpleft.com> wrote:
>
> >> What is "British" about the
> >> Barbirolli M5?
> >
> >It's not hyper-dramatic Mahler, or hyper-neurotic Mahler, but measured,
ripe
> >and relaxed. It is the kind of performance that I often mentally
associate
> >British conductors (like Boult
> >
> >Matt C
>
> Fascinating. The last description I would think of for Barbirolli's
> daringly slow but gut-wrenching first movement is "ripe and relaxed".
> And I could never imagine Boult giving a performance like that.
>
> How perceptions differ!
Indeed. But I would probably never describe that first movement as
gut-wrenching (especially in comparison to some of the more overtly dramatic
versions) - and its the last two movements where the ripe and relaxed
adjective really comes into play, with an almost bucolic quality in the
Rondo. But I'm done with defending this performance. Your turn to do it...
Matt C
Simon Roberts
>
>On Thu, 24 Apr 2003 13:11:59 GMT, "HPLeft" <ma...@hpleft.com> wrote:
>
>>> What is "British" about the
>>> Barbirolli M5?
>>
>>It's not hyper-dramatic Mahler, or hyper-neurotic Mahler, but measured, ripe
>>and relaxed. It is the kind of performance that I often mentally associate
>>British conductors (like Boult
>>
>>Matt C
>
>Fascinating. The last description I would think of for Barbirolli's
>daringly slow but gut-wrenching first movement is "ripe and relaxed".
>And I could never imagine Boult giving a performance like that.
Perhaps Sir Neville or Sir Andrew will one day oblige....
Simon
Matthew B. Tepper (posts from uswest.net are forged)
letters to be typed in news:b89b7...@drn.newsguy.com:
I've seen Marriner conduct Mahler (the 1st). Don't wait up.
--
Matthew B. Tepper: WWW, science fiction, classical music, ducks!
My personal home page -- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/index.html
My main music page --- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/berlioz.html
To write to me, do for my address what Androcles did for the lion
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RMCR's most pointless, dumb and laughable chowderhead: Mark Coy.
Paul Goldstein
I wasn't there, but their contemporaneous recording is still one of the best,
probably the one I'd want if I could only have one.
Paul Goldstein
Roland van Gaalen
deserves an honorable mention, for the reasons usually given in support of
favorite historical recordings. It's one of my favorites, despite relatively
poor sound. The scherzo is especially wonderful here. Ref.: Tahra 419,
released 2002.
--
Roland van Gaalen
Amsterdam
E-mail: R.P.vanGaalenATchello.nl (replace AT by @)
Tony Duggan
HPLeft <ma...@hpleft.com> wrote in message
news:zoRpa.110169$MB4.38...@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net...
The irony in all this is, of course, that Barbirolli's father was Italian
and his mother was French. He was only British in being born and brought up
here.
Paul Kintzele
Simon Roberts wrote:
>
> My vote among recent recordings would go to Gatti's (not Barshai's; would so
> much be made of it were it not a remarkably good youth orchestra?),
Speaking of youth orchestras, I recently heard the Curtis Orchestra and
David Zinman do Mahler 5 at the Kimmel Center, and I don't think I'll
hear a better performance for quite some time. This orchestra is
astoundingly virtuosic.
Also, I sat in the first row at the end of the "conductor's circle,"
right behind the first violins. It was delightfully LOUD.
On cd: Bernstein/DG, Gatti/RPO. I've heard the new Rattle in the
stores and thought it a strong performance. The acoustic is flatter and
drier than in the Abbado/Berlin recording of a decade ago (which is also
a very fine performance), but Rattle's woodwinds are perkier.
Paul
Heck51
"It's good to see Scherchen mentioned here. "
aaaarrgh!! Scherchen?? and VSOO?? that one is horrible, really awful.
dreadful playing - awful opening trumpet solo (mashed-potato-mouth).
and things don't improve.
this and Leinsdorf are the two worst I've ever heard.
Barry Zukerman
> knows what he was up to, but this is definitely not my Mahler.
>
> greetings,
> Nico Assinck
I couldn't agree more. The Barbirolli makes my list of most overrated
recordings. Conversely, his recording of six and nine are both among
my favorites.
For the fifth, Bernstein/VPO on DG is my personal favorite by a fairly
wide margin.
Barry
Roland van Gaalen
news:5705a4cf.03042...@posting.google.com...
> > I once heard the Barbirolli, and I don't understand that one at all. God
> > knows what he was up to, but this is definitely not my Mahler.
> >
> > greetings,
> > Nico Assinck
>
> I couldn't agree more. The Barbirolli makes my list of most overrated
I vaguely remember reading somewhere that the conductor was totally
clueless!
Thomas Heilman
> In article <908bfc0.03042...@posting.google.com>,
> thei...@aol.com (Thomas Heilman) wrote:
>
> > It's good to see Scherchen mentioned here. I agree, and the Shipway.
> > And permit me to add Inoue/RPO. Superb.
> > However, if I may steer you into pirated waters briefly, my favorite
> > performance of the work is a Jansons\Pittsburgh Symphony performance,
> > this at a Berlin Festival, I believe, though I may be mistaken. The
> > level of sustained tenstion in the first movement is most impressive.
> >
> > Best,
> >
> > Tom Heilman
>
> I'm not listening to a mislabeled performance, I hope. Maybe I should
> pull out some timings for the cracked notes in the horns..
I fail to understand how a few cracked notes could ruin a performance,
so pull out the timings as you like....
David7Gable
>Two very different interpretations, but both are classics.
Agree on both counts but would probably add Bernstein's first recording to the
list. (Can't recall if I've heard Bernstein's second.) I also like Solti's
extremely well played first recording with the CSO, although the Adagietto is
not nearly "expressionist" or distinctive enough for me. Still, I used to live
in Chicago, so a good performance with that magnificent ensemble is something I
value. Abbado's first CSO 5th is even better played and with a better
Adagietto than Solti's but the Adagietto is still not quite as good as it
should be. (This is one of Abbado's few Mahler recordings to come somewhere
near being as good as his best live performances with the CSO in the 80's.)
There are two very good live recordings with Boulez and the BBC SO. His
Adagietto performances from the olden days are extremely interesting. Not
Scherchen-ian, Rosbaud-ian, Mitropolous-ian, or early Bernstein-ian
"expressionist," quite, but he's intensely wrapped up in the unfolding. In
fact, it's very interesting to see him regard each sustained note in the
Adagietto as a vast expanse that needs growth and individual shaping, and he
keeps up a steady pressure throughout the movement. Hard to explain exactly
what I mean, although I did once try here with respect to a live Boulez Mahler
6 scherzo. Maderna's live performance IS Scherchen-ian, Rosbaud-ian,
Mitropolous-ian but his orchestra is not very good and the performance is not
all that well recorded. (Whose performance is included in that Philadelphia
Orchestra box along with Stokowski's Beethoven 5th? Scherchen's? I seem to
recall a very slow Adagietto.)
-david gable
David7Gable
>> Mundi?) for eccentric.
>>
>> Ulvi
>
>It's good to see Scherchen mentioned here.
Describe please.
-david gable
David7Gable
>"getting" Barbirolli's.
>
I don't get it.
-david gable
Eric Nagamine
>
> "Daniel Kolle" <DKo...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:olleavsi600mfojqr...@4ax.com...
> >
> > What do you say is the best Mahler 5th? I have the Sony Essential
> > Classic one (the remastered copy), but I hear it is not that good. Or
> > did I hear wrong?
>
> then (and would probably now) as too unyielding -- and would probably strike
> several other contributors to this list as being better. The Schwarz was
> the only Mahler 5 available on a single LP for many years, well into the mid
> 80s (and the end of the LP era).
The original Everest issue of the Schwarz was on 2 discs, it only came
onto 1 disc well after the company's catalog was sold off a few times.
Towards the end of the LP era, the Mehta/LA phil was recut onto one
disc.
> But I typically prefer my Mahler to be a
> bit more expansive, and conductors who allow the music to breathe a bit
> more. For instance, I remember not liking the original Solti performance
> much for that reason, and prefer his CSO remake to the LSO original.
Both of Solti's 5th's were with the CSO.
-----------
Aloha and Mahalo,
Eric Nagamine
Eric Nagamine
>
> The 1951 recording by the Concertgebouw Orchestra under Kubelik surely
> deserves an honorable mention, for the reasons usually given in support of
> favorite historical recordings. It's one of my favorites, despite relatively
> poor sound. The scherzo is especially wonderful here. Ref.: Tahra 419,
> released 2002.
It's a wonderful interpretation, but somewhat let down by some darn
sloppy playing by the orchestra. Sounds underrehearsed to my ears.
--
Eric Nagamine
>
> What do you say is the best Mahler 5th? I have the Sony Essential
> Classic one (the remastered copy), but I hear it is not that good. Or
> did I hear wrong?
The Maazel/VPO is well played, but as an interpretation, I'd say the
Boulez/VPO is worth listening to first. The special qualities of the
orchestra's instruments come out better with Boulez. The Bernstein/VPO
is excellent, but as a long time fan of the music, I'd recommend it as
an alternative reading of the work. His darker/heavier view of the work
is somewhat different. One of the better sounding recordings though in
his DG cycle.
If you're new to the music, I'd strongly recommend the Mehta/NY Phil
recording on Teldec. Well played and recorded, Mehta give a very solid
reading.
Barbirolli's EMI recording is let down by some lax playing, poor
editing, and too leisurely a look at the work.
Kubelik and Haitink are also worth a listen. Kubelik's Live recording
with the BRSO on Audite & Haitink's 1970(studio) & 1986 (live) with the
Concertgebouw O have a freewheeling quality that I like in the work.
Simon Rattle's recent EMI recording is disappointing in relation to his
Verizon Hall performances with the Philadelphia O. The Berlin Phil
sounds like it's going through the motions.
Ben Zander's Telarc recording has the bonus disc of lectures that might
be of interest, but I didn't think his reading was anything special.
Similarly, i found the Shipway/RPO performance to be okay, but nothing
of note.
The Chailly/Concertgebouw O recording for Decca has the gimmick of
placing the horn soloist up front for the Scherzo (as done by
Mengelberg). A solid, if not especially interesting reading.
Neumann's Supraphon Czech phil 5th is a real snoozer except for the
scherzo in which everyone woke up and decided to put out an especially
charming performance.
Inbal's Denon recording is well played & recorded, but little else.
Levine's Philly recording suffers from some irritating trumpet playing
to my ears. Hopefully, the orchestra's media institute will see fit to
record & issue Eschenbach's planned Mahler cycle over the next few
years.
Mehta's & Solti's analog recordings with the LA Phil & CSO are solid
performances, that feature somewhat aggressive playing & recordings by
Decca.
Avoid the Ancerl/Toronto SO recording like SARS. Very poorly played.
Tahra should have never issued this. A poor tribute to a great
conductor.
Scherchen's Philly recording has some whopping cuts & strange tempi.
Avoid. His VSOO recording on MCA is more conventional.
Bernstein's NYP recording has mediocre sound, lackluster playing, &
lacks the cohesiveness that make the VPO remake worth listening to.
Scharwz's LSO recording on Everest has the LSO sleep walking it's way
through the music. Surprising with the stellar musicians at the time of
the recording.
The Walter/NYP still remains a recommendation for a monophonic or stereo
recording of the work. One the few recording with an Adagietto that
comes close to Mahler's own timings.
By the way there is no Matthew Best recording of the 5th ;)
Paul E
best, and best recorded.
Paul E
"Daniel Kolle" <DKo...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:olleavsi600mfojqr...@4ax.com...
>
> What do you say is the best Mahler 5th? I have the Sony Essential
> Classic one (the remastered copy), but I hear it is not that good. Or
> did I hear wrong?
>
>
> -Kolle; 15 A.A. #2035
> Koji Kondo, Yo-Yo Ma, and Gustav Mahler are my Gods.
Vincent Ventrone
> all that well recorded. (Whose performance is included in that
Philadelphia
> Orchestra box along with Stokowski's Beethoven 5th? Scherchen's? I seem
to
> recall a very slow Adagietto.)
It was Scherchen's Mahler 5, based on reviews I have read. I bought this
same recording from Tahra -- to my ears it is similar to the cut version on
Harmonia Mundi but not nearly as well recorded (sounds very distant to me --
as if the mic was placed way back in a balcony somewhere). So if you want
this particular interpretation I would go with the HM cd.
Vincent Ventrone
> dreadful playing - awful opening trumpet solo (mashed-potato-mouth).
> and things don't improve.
All a matter of opinion I'd say -- I love it...But then maybe I like "mashed
potatoe-mouthed playing" & didn't know it!..
Vincent Ventrone
> I couldn't agree more. The Barbirolli makes my list of most overrated
> recordings. Conversely, his recording of six and nine are both among
> my favorites.
>
tooo sloooowwww...But his 9th is my favorite -- seems to breath in every
bar...go figure.
Vincent Ventrone
> The irony in all this is, of course, that Barbirolli's father was Italian
> and his mother was French. He was only British in being born and brought
up
> here.
>
Sounds like a candidate for a variation on the old "nature versus nurture"
debate!
David7Gable
>this particular interpretation [Scherchen/Philadelphia live] I would go with
the HM cd.
Well, it was certainly interesting to hear it once.
-david gable
Tony Duggan
Vincent Ventrone <gr...@byu.edu> wrote in message
news:b8bqiq$39q$1...@courier.brandeis.edu...
It will be interesting to watch how Antonio Pappano (MD at Covent Garden)
develops. Italian parents but born in London.
Matthew B. Tepper (posts from uswest.net are forged)
letters to be typed in news:b8bqao$38j$1...@courier.brandeis.edu:
How does it compare with Tennstedt in the New York Philharmonic Mahler
broadcast box?
Heck51
"All a matter of opinion I'd say -- I love it"
The Scherchen/VSOO travesty was my first exposure to Mahler #5!!
I was familiar with Syms#2 and 1 by the Walter recordings, and was
developing a real passion for his music -
then I heard this scherchen disaster, and couldn't believe it!! how
could the composer of such wonderful music as syms 1 and 2 produce
such a lemon??
of course, soon enough I had a chance to hear the Walter, Bernstein
and ultimately, Solti/CSO live at Carngie Hall in 1970. Mahler #5
became and has remained one of my favorites since then.
Lawrence Chalmers
venue?
Dan Koren
>
> What do you say is the best Mahler 5th? I have the Sony Essential
> Classic one (the remastered copy), but I hear it is not that good. Or
> did I hear wrong?
>
Barbirolli. Barbirolli. Barbirolli.
Very distant second honors to Bernstein/DG.
dk
Dan Koren
> In article <20030423234527...@mb-m28.aol.com>, Sol L. Siegel <vod...@aol.comdammspam> wrote:
> : Daniel Kolle DKo...@hotmail.com writes:
>
> :>What do you say is the best Mahler 5th? I have the Sony
> :>not that good. Or did I hear wrong?
> : That's your decision. Really.
> :
> : My own favorites are Levine (available cheap from mdt.co.uk),
> : the ancient Walter and either Bernstein, in about that order.
> My two favorite performances are the 1947 Walter and the Kubelik/BRSO.
> Two very different interpretations, but both are classics.
>
> the "best" Mahler 5th is Barbirolli's. Do not believe them.
>
Why should anyone believe *you* ?!?
dk
Steve Hehr
At the Musikverein, Vienna, Nov. 30, 1990, according to the notes
accompanying the disk.
Solti's recordings are my favorites, though I haven't heard the
variety of performances that many on this group have.
--
Steve Hehr
To send me email, replace the "out" in my address with its opposite.
Heck51
"Is the second Solti/CSO/Decca in concert at Carnegie or a different
venue?"
Solti/CSO II - from 11/90, was recorded "live" in the Musikverein, Vienna.
It is really excellent.
Michael Weston
"Tony Duggan" <dug...@scribble.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
> It will be interesting to watch how Antonio Pappano (MD at Covent Garden)
> develops. Italian parents but born in London.
>
>
> --
> Tony Duggan, England.
He'll have to learn to control his breathing before I ever see him
again. His recent performance of Fantasia on a Theme of T.T. with the
CSO turned into Concerto for Sucking Sounds. Everyone reasonable close
to the stage was left shaking their heads after that one. He put a cork
in it for the concerto with Shaham, but I wouldn't want to trust him a
second time. IMHO, his control of the otchestra was nothing special,
despite the dramatic swooping of his baton. It may be unfair to compare
him to established conductors, but he wasn't near Gielen, Dohnanyi,
Welser-Most or Salonen's level. Not bad, really, but certainly not a
standout.
Michael
shre...@sbcglobal.net
>Daniel Kolle <DKo...@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<olleavsi600mfojqr...@4ax.com>...
>>
>> What do you say is the best Mahler 5th? I have the Sony Essential
>> Classic one (the remastered copy), but I hear it is not that good. Or
>> did I hear wrong?
>>
There is no "BEST" recording of any piece--come on, it's far too
subjective. Some Mahler 5th's that I have *enjoyed* are by Karajan,
Bernstein and Sinopoli--all on DG.
Peter Greenstein
"Tony Movshon" <mov...@nyu.edu> wrote in message
news:3EA7E59D...@nyu.edu...
> HPLeft wrote:
> > "Tony Movshon" <mov...@nyu.edu> wrote
> >> What is "British" about the Barbirolli M5?
> > I still keep it and quite like it, but I think it's hardly "central" and
I
> understand the opinion of those who loathe it. I can't agree that it
belongs
> on any recommended list, except in the "eccentric" category (British
again, I
> guess?).
>
>
"Eccentric" as in Klemperer's M.7?
David M. Cook
> What do you say is the best Mahler 5th? I have the Sony Essential
> Classic one (the remastered copy), but I hear it is not that good. Or
> did I hear wrong?
American Record Guide was very enthusiastic about Saraste in their Mahler
overview. This is a fairly straightforward, unneurotic (almost sunny)
interpretation. Saraste really keeps this moving along (68:39; the Adagietto
is 9:22). This is with the Finnish RSO, and while the brass don't have the
authority of the top orchestras, they play very well. While ideally I
prefer a richer string sound, the lower strings are very well captured. The
recording is excellent, very well balanced. Recommended to anyone who wants
an alternative to Bernstein or Sinopoli.
Dave Cook
Sacqueboutier
Michael Weston at m.we...@mindspring.com wrote on 4/26/03 11:22 AM:
> In article <b8bvs2$7r6$1...@news7.svr.pol.co.uk>,
> "Tony Duggan" <dug...@scribble.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> It will be interesting to watch how Antonio Pappano (MD at Covent Garden)
>> develops. Italian parents but born in London.
It would surely help if he were to cultivate a phony East European accent.
--
Don Patterson
Trombonist
Arranger/Copyist
"The President's Own"
United States Marine Band
Matthew B. Tepper (posts from uswest.net are forged)
letters to be typed in news:BAD17309.9069%don...@olg.com:
> in article m.weston-F48E9A...@newssvr26.news.prodigy.com,
> Michael Weston at m.we...@mindspring.com wrote on 4/26/03 11:22 AM:
>
>> In article <b8bvs2$7r6$1...@news7.svr.pol.co.uk>,
>> "Tony Duggan" <dug...@scribble.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>>> It will be interesting to watch how Antonio Pappano (MD at Covent
>>> Garden) develops. Italian parents but born in London.
>
> It would surely help if he were to cultivate a phony East European
> accent.
A good hair stylist and a manicurist would also be a good idea.
Kalman Rubinson
the Concertgebouw that's worth hearing. Playing and balance is
excellent with great weight in the sound. Performance is a little
swift but not too much so.
Pentatone SACD 5186 004.
Kal
Tony Duggan
Peter Greenstein <pgre...@attbi.com> wrote in message
news:SfEqa.631074$3D1.349293@sccrnsc01...
Klemperer's Mahler 7 is just *slow*. The timings for Barbirolli's Mahler 5
are pretty mainstream in all except the last movement. Compare with
Bernstein on DG:
First movement: Bernstein 14:32 - Barbirolli 13:48
Second movement: Bernstein 14:59 - Barbirolli 15:14
Third movement: Bernstein 19:02 - Barbirolli 18:04
Fourth movement: Bernstein 11:13 - Barbirolli 9:52
Fifth movement: Bernstein 15:00 - Barbirolli 17:27
I would hardly call Barbirolli's speeds "eccentric" and certainly not in the
same class as Klemperer in the Seventh.
David7Gable
Like Stokowski's?
-david gable
Matthew B. Tepper (posts from uswest.net are forged)
letters to be typed in news:20030427151337...@mb-m29.aol.com:
>> It would surely help if he were to cultivate a phony East European
>> accent.
>
> Like Stokowski's?
I would say that's the obvious reference (hence my reply about a hair
stylist and a manicurist).
Donald C. Patterson
david...@aol.com wrote on 4/27/03 3:13 PM:
>> It would surely help if he were to cultivate a phony East European accent.
>
> Like Stokowski's?
>
That was my inference, yes.
Matthew B. Tepper (posts from uswest.net are forged)
following letters to be typed in news:BAD20807.9106%don...@olg.com:
> in article 20030427151337...@mb-m29.aol.com, David7Gable at
> david...@aol.com wrote on 4/27/03 3:13 PM:
>
>>> It would surely help if he were to cultivate a phony East European
>>> accent.
>>
>> Like Stokowski's?
>>
>
> That was my inference, yes.
Well, I got it, guh-hyilk.
Peter Allen
>
>"Peter Allen" <p...@melbpc.org.au> wrote in message
>news:m5agavs623nh9m31h...@4ax.com...
>> On Thu, 24 Apr 2003 13:11:59 GMT, "HPLeft" <ma...@hpleft.com> wrote:
>>
>> >> What is "British" about the
>> >> Barbirolli M5?
>> >
>> >It's not hyper-dramatic Mahler, or hyper-neurotic Mahler, but measured,
>ripe
>> >and relaxed. It is the kind of performance that I often mentally
>associate
>> >British conductors (like Boult
>> >
>> >Matt C
>>
>> Fascinating. The last description I would think of for Barbirolli's
>> daringly slow but gut-wrenching first movement is "ripe and relaxed".
>> And I could never imagine Boult giving a performance like that.
>>
>> How perceptions differ!
>
>Indeed. But I would probably never describe that first movement as
>gut-wrenching (especially in comparison to some of the more overtly dramatic
>versions) - and its the last two movements where the ripe and relaxed
>adjective really comes into play, with an almost bucolic quality in the
>Rondo. But I'm done with defending this performance. Your turn to do it...
>
A simple matter of my vague terminology, I think.
By "gut-wrenching", I was referring to the emotional intensity of the
performance as I hear it . Granted, many others here obviously
disagree :-)
"Emotional intensity" can be quite a different, indeed in some cases
contradictory, quality to "overtly dramatic".
Cheers,
Peter
____________________________________________
Dr Peter Allen (p...@melbpc.org.au)
Melbourne PC User Group
____________________________________________
E. K. Lyotard
far an away better than the EMI LPO performance. The adagietto is
heavy, not in an emotive way, but in a dark, sombre, macabre, eerie
way emphasized by the cellos and violas. There are of course mistakes,
such as Eng horn at mintue 6 in the rondo, and the scherzo has a hefty
(some would say boring) weight to it. Still
if it is possible , I dont think this cd should be overlooked or
missed.
MIFrost
> Daniel Kolle DKo...@hotmail.com writes:
>
> >Essential Classic one (the remastered copy), but I hear it is
> >not that good. Or did I hear wrong?
It's available very cheaply and I just ordered it from Arkivmusic. Looking forward to hearing it. I currently have Bernstein (DG) and Barshai. Love the former but don't see what all the fuss is about the latter.
MIFrost
MIFrost
Orchman
>> It's good to see Scherchen mentioned here.>>
not the VSOO one, I hope?? that one is awful. it was my first exposure to M5...couldn't believe how the composer of Syms 1 and 2 could have produced such a dud...then I heard Walter/NYPO, and it quickly made sense....
Heard the live Solti/CSO @ Carnegie Hall in 3/70....unforgettable experience,,, incredible concert...the '70 recording is great, but still doesn't come close to the live performance.
O
http://www.musicweb-international.com/Mahler/Mahler5.htm
and then consider all the later ones.
-Owen
jrsnfld
> A recent issue of American Record Guide had this to say about this symphony: The Saraste is richly expressive and full of personality: all the emotional range (and dynamic range) of the work is here. It's nostalgic, joyful, full of longing, uplifting. The brass are especially thrilling. The sound is gorgeous, with real depth. The Finnish orchestra is superb.
But what about Saraste's newer recording on Profil? Is it significantly different or better?
--Jeff
jrsnfld
> MIFrost wrote:
> > A recent issue of American Record Guide had this to say about this symphony:
> > The Saraste is richly expressive and full of personality: all the emotional
> > range (and dynamic range) of the work is here. It's nostalgic, joyful, full
> > of longing, uplifting. The brass are especially thrilling. The sound is
> > gorgeous, with real depth. The Finnish orchestra is superb.
> >
>
> http://www.musicweb-international.com/Mahler/Mahler5.htm
>
> and then consider all the later ones.
>
> -Owen
The most significant must-hear "new" recordings may actually be old ones that finally have been circulating widely--by Horenstein, and Rosbaud. They are worth tracking down no matter what other recordings you have.
--Jeff
Ray Hall
> On Saturday, March 28, 2015 at 8:24:02 PM UTC-7, O wrote:
>
>>
>> http://www.musicweb-international.com/Mahler/Mahler5.htm
>>
>> and then consider all the later ones.
>>
>> -Owen
recordings. Both are exceptionally good.
Ray Hall, Taree
boombox
>
> --Jeff
Alan Dawes
on Tring TRP096 steeo CD and more recently was remastered by Membran on
SACD 222845-203. Some of the RPO recordings from the Watford Colosseum in
the 1990s were recorded in surround sound at a high sample rate and this
SACD contains 5.1 DSD, 2 channel DSD and 2 channel CD tracks. The SACD is
very effective but be warned that it has a very wide dynamic range.
Alan
--
alan....@argonet.co.uk
alan....@riscos.org
Using an Acorn RiscPC
jrsnfld
> > I am assuming that many here know the Shipway, and the Barshai
> > recordings. Both are exceptionally good.
>
> I was also going to recommend the RPO Shipway version. It was originally
> on Tring TRP096 steeo CD and more recently was remastered by Membran on
> SACD 222845-203. Some of the RPO recordings from the Watford Colosseum in
> the 1990s were recorded in surround sound at a high sample rate and this
> SACD contains 5.1 DSD, 2 channel DSD and 2 channel CD tracks. The SACD is
> very effective but be warned that it has a very wide dynamic range.
>
> Alan
He's a bit on the slow side, especially in the Adagietto. The acoustic is a bit too spacious, tubby bass too, and more often than I'd like important and motoric lines in the "inner" voices get de-emphasized, swamped out by the melody, or by the brass. Not always, but too often. Some significant color is lost there although the overall sheen and warmth therefore make a nice Brahmsian impression. Very pretty.
Furthermore--and this really gets me--Shipway leads a beautiful realization of an interpretation that downplays so many essential characteristics of Mahler's style. Take that Adagietto, right in the second measure when the first violins come in with their ascending triplets. It's marked pp with an expressivo crescendo into a sudden pianissimo again in the second bar. The crescendo is barely there, and if there's any at all it peaks far too late--where it should be subito pp you get the strings leaning into the note. Countless conductors get the shape of this significant moment just right (then they get lambasted incorrectly for "exaggerating"--as if that's even possible in Mahler's extremely detailed and unusually emphatic dynamics and articulation.
One could go from there and see that many markings are observed just fine, and the playing, indeed the overarching expressiveness, is wonderful. Yet every so often you're reminded that this Mahler is squelched--a lot of those gracenotes and traditional portamenti are barely audible--just when you need them to scream out "Mahler!"
So...a nice recording and I have no plans to get rid of it, but not a prime recommendation.
--Jeff
jrsnfld
> Furthermore--and this really gets me--Shipway leads a beautiful realization of an interpretation that downplays so many essential characteristics of Mahler's style. Take that Adagietto, right in the second measure when the first violins come in with their ascending triplets.
sorry...that's a trio of eighths starting on an upbeat, pick-ups to the next measure. Not a triplet. Anyway, it's also marked with a molto ritard of course, which is another element that should help this moment feel like a collective gulp before the hushed confession--a trepidation that Shipway doesn't register because has another (admittedly pretty) way to do it.
----
>It's marked pp with an expressivo crescendo into a sudden pianissimo again in the second bar. The crescendo is barely there, and if there's any at all it peaks far too late-....
>
--Jeff
gggg...@gmail.com
> What do you say is the best Mahler 5th? I have the Sony Essential
> Classic one (the remastered copy), but I hear it is not that good. Or
> did I hear wrong?
>
>
> Koji Kondo, Yo-Yo Ma, and Gustav Mahler are my Gods.
Have you ever heard Horenstein's recording?:
https://beta.prx.org/stories/168011
Terry
Raymond Hall
Tennstedt LPO (live and studio) EMI
Shipway RPO Tring
Bernstein VPO DG, and Bernstein NYPO Sony
and on YouTube a terrific video and good sound by :-
Eiji Oue Barcelona SO.
There are so many others that may be mentioned, (Barbirolli was an earlier favourite of mine and also Kubelik), but the ones above are what I reach for now.
And Eiji Oue is really terrific on YT. You will learn a lot from watching this.
Ray Hall, Taree
Randy Lane
Nicholas G
Box Set: Mahler Symphonies - Live in Concert
THE KLAUS TENNSTEDT RECORDINGS
Mahler
Lieder eines fahrenden Gesellen (Songs of a Wayfarer) (Recorded 1991)
Symphony No. 1 in D major (Recorded 1985)
Symphony No. 2 in C minor 'Resurrection' (Recorded 1989)
Symphony No. 2 in C minor 'Resurrection' (Recorded 1981)
Symphony No. 6 in A minor (Recorded 1983)
Symphony No. 8 in E flat major (Recorded 1991)
Klaus Tennstedt conductor
London Philharmonic Orchestra
David Nolan leader
O
Raymond Hall
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Klaus-Tennstedt-Complete-Mahler-Recordings/dp/B004OGDW4M/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1451922788&sr=8-3&keywords=tennstedt
Ray Hall, Taree
Alan Dawes
> On Monday, 4 January 2016 20:49:24 UTC+11, gggg...@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Wednesday, April 23, 2003 at 5:17:05 PM UTC-10, Daniel Kolle wrote:
> > > What do you say is the best Mahler 5th? I have the Sony Essential
> > > Classic one (the remastered copy), but I hear it is not that good. Or
> > > did I hear wrong?
> > >
> > >
> > > -Kolle; 15 A.A. #2035
> > > Koji Kondo, Yo-Yo Ma, and Gustav Mahler are my Gods.
> >
> > Have you ever heard Horenstein's recording?:
> >
> > https://beta.prx.org/stories/168011
> No. But I can vouch for :-
> Tennstedt LPO (live and studio) EMI
> Shipway RPO Tring
is very fine). Sadly he died in an accident on Aug 6th 2014. Membran have
remastered the original RPO recordings (I believe the masters were
surround sound) that were on Tring and reissued them as SACDs. I can vouch
for the sound on the Mahler 5 SACD being clearer with a more solid base
and higher dynamic range than on the original Tring CD that I have.
http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B000AAVCY8
Tony Duggan's review from 1999 is at:
http://www.classical.net/music/recs/reviews/t/tri00096a.php
Alan
--
alan....@argonet.co.uk
alan....@riscos.org
Using an ARMX6
Alex Brown
Or, for modern sound, Bertini/Cologne.
--
- Alex Brown
Gerard
news:frmdnbmHjeoATA3L...@giganews.com...
So what happened to the recording by Barshai and the Junge Deutsche
Philharmonie?
That one was praised to the sky when it came out.
E.g. by Tony Duggan:
"It is the finest recording of the Fifth Symphony currently available.".
http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2002/May02/Mahler5_Barshai.htm
See also:
http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2004/Mar04/Mahler105Barshai.htm
http://www.musicweb-international.com/Mahler/Mahler5.htm
Also praised to the sky on:
http://www.classicstoday.com/review/review-3372/
""I have no hesitation in recommending it as one of the half dozen or so
best recordings of the work currently available, right up there with
Bernstein (DG), Karajan (DG), Barbirolli (EMI), and Tennstedt (NY
Philharmonic Special Editions), and that goes for both the interpretation
and the playing.""
Sol L. Siegel
news:d6757$5690de7b$546845b9$32...@news.ziggo.nl:
> So what happened to the recording by Barshai and the Junge Deutsche
> Philharmonie?
> That one was praised to the sky when it came out.
- Sol L. Siegel, Philadelphia, PA USA
Raymond Hall
>
> > So what happened to the recording by Barshai and the Junge Deutsche
> > Philharmonie?
> > That one was praised to the sky when it came out.
>
> Still around, and still good.
>
> - Sol L. Siegel, Philadelphia, PA USA
Ray Hall, Taree
gggg...@gmail.com
> What do you say is the best Mahler 5th? I have the Sony Essential
> Classic one (the remastered copy), but I hear it is not that good. Or
> did I hear wrong?
>
>
> -Kolle; 15 A.A. #2035
> Koji Kondo, Yo-Yo Ma, and Gustav Mahler are my Gods.