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I know Brunhilde is Siegfried's (half-) aunt...
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William Sommerwerck
Apr 21, 2012, 4:13:42 PM4/21/12
to
...but must she sound like his grandmother?
I'm listening to the Met "Siegfried" (a lively performance guaranteed not to
put anyone to sleep), and am having trouble with the Brunhilde. She sounds
about 70, and has a tremolo that could be marketed as a guitar accessory.
Anyone care to lay into my ignorance of singing?
--
"We already know the answers -- we just haven't asked the right
questions." -- Edwin Land
I'm listening to the Met "Siegfried" (a lively performance guaranteed not to
put anyone to sleep), and am having trouble with the Brunhilde. She sounds
about 70, and has a tremolo that could be marketed as a guitar accessory.
Anyone care to lay into my ignorance of singing?
--
"We already know the answers -- we just haven't asked the right
questions." -- Edwin Land
basnperson
Apr 21, 2012, 6:27:31 PM4/21/12
to
On Apr 21, 4:13 pm, "William Sommerwerck" <grizzledgee...@comcast.net>
wrote:
agree......... musically and tonally awful. And the tenor is no
better........... the orchestral playing is terrific. There are just
too few singers around who can do justice to these very difficult
parts.
AB
wrote:
better........... the orchestral playing is terrific. There are just
too few singers around who can do justice to these very difficult
parts.
AB
td
Apr 21, 2012, 6:40:01 PM4/21/12
to
kind of warble that most normal people laugh at. Archetypal opera
singer. You can barely tell what note she is singing.
But frankly 10 minutes of this shit is about all I can take. What
unadulterated crap Wagner wrote. The libretto is ludicrous, the music
meandering and pompously inflated if not simpering. Really! How this
stuff acquired its reputation is simply beyond me.
I will need a night of Satie to get rid of the hateful memory of those
ten minutes of mucus.
TD
wagnerfan
Apr 21, 2012, 11:31:42 PM4/21/12
to
On Sat, 21 Apr 2012 13:13:42 -0700, "William Sommerwerck"
<grizzle...@comcast.net> wrote:
>...but must she sound like his grandmother?
>
>I'm listening to the Met "Siegfried" (a lively performance guaranteed not to
>put anyone to sleep), and am having trouble with the Brunhilde. She sounds
>about 70, and has a tremolo that could be marketed as a guitar accessory.
>
>Anyone care to lay into my ignorance of singing?
Not at all - I was in the house. When Voigt dropped half her weight
<grizzle...@comcast.net> wrote:
>...but must she sound like his grandmother?
>
>I'm listening to the Met "Siegfried" (a lively performance guaranteed not to
>put anyone to sleep), and am having trouble with the Brunhilde. She sounds
>about 70, and has a tremolo that could be marketed as a guitar accessory.
>
>Anyone care to lay into my ignorance of singing?
AND started taking on parts too heavy for her, the bottom half of the
voice vanished.Old and porous sounding. And she looks awful to
boot!!!! Way too skinny. Wagner fan
td
Apr 22, 2012, 2:54:37 PM4/22/12
to
Of course you were. Every opera queen was "there".
> When Voigt dropped half her weight AND started taking on parts too heavy for > her, the bottom half of the voice vanished.Old and porous sounding. And she
> looks awful to boot!!!! Way too skinny.
It is so typical of your average opera queen to discuss the soprano's
weight, or loss of weight. Really this bunch of bitchy sour-pusses
must be the bane of singers around the world.
I guess that Dickey really wanted to be Callas!
TD
> When Voigt dropped half her weight AND started taking on parts too heavy for > her, the bottom half of the voice vanished.Old and porous sounding. And she
> looks awful to boot!!!! Way too skinny.
weight, or loss of weight. Really this bunch of bitchy sour-pusses
must be the bane of singers around the world.
I guess that Dickey really wanted to be Callas!
TD
Charles H. Sampson
Apr 23, 2012, 11:51:45 AM4/23/12
to
> ...
I saw a performance of this Ring's Götterdämmerung at my local
movie house. I highly reccommend it for anyone not living near one of
the few major opera centers.
The enthusiasm for Wagner's operas has always been pretty much a
mystery to me, too, particularly so having two entire Rings under my
belt along with scattered one-offs of his other operas. Someone (I know
not who) said it best, which I try to reproduce with: Long passages of
boredom punctuated by occasional bursts of breathtaking music.
Charlie
--
Nobody in this country got rich on his own. You built a factory--good.
But you moved your goods on roads we all paid for. You hired workers we
all paid to educate. So keep a big hunk of the money from your factory.
But take a hunk and pay it forward. Elizabeth Warren (paraphrased)
> unadulterated crap Wagner wrote. The libretto is ludicrous, the music
> meandering and pompously inflated if not simpering. Really! How this
> stuff acquired its reputation is simply beyond me.
>
> ...
> meandering and pompously inflated if not simpering. Really! How this
> stuff acquired its reputation is simply beyond me.
>
I saw a performance of this Ring's Götterdämmerung at my local
movie house. I highly reccommend it for anyone not living near one of
the few major opera centers.
The enthusiasm for Wagner's operas has always been pretty much a
mystery to me, too, particularly so having two entire Rings under my
belt along with scattered one-offs of his other operas. Someone (I know
not who) said it best, which I try to reproduce with: Long passages of
boredom punctuated by occasional bursts of breathtaking music.
Charlie
--
Nobody in this country got rich on his own. You built a factory--good.
But you moved your goods on roads we all paid for. You hired workers we
all paid to educate. So keep a big hunk of the money from your factory.
But take a hunk and pay it forward. Elizabeth Warren (paraphrased)
William Sommerwerck
Apr 23, 2012, 12:04:04 PM4/23/12
to
> The enthusiasm for Wagner's operas has always been pretty
> much a mystery to me, too, particularly so having two entire
> Rings under my belt along with scattered one-offs of his other
> operas. Someone (I know not who) said it best, which I try to
> reproduce with: Long passages of boredom punctuated by
> occasional bursts of breathtaking music.
I think one's reaction is largely dependent on the performance. Say what you
> much a mystery to me, too, particularly so having two entire
> Rings under my belt along with scattered one-offs of his other
> operas. Someone (I know not who) said it best, which I try to
> reproduce with: Long passages of boredom punctuated by
> occasional bursts of breathtaking music.
will about Deborah Voigt's singing, the Met's Saturday "Siegfried" was the
liveliest performance I've ever heard. It was anything but boring,
especially for an opera that's generally considered boring until "das wurm"
appears. (Dragons are neuter-gender, right?)
Dufus
Apr 23, 2012, 12:23:13 PM4/23/12
to
>On Apr 23, 10:51 am, csamp...@inetworld.net (Charles H. Sampson) wrote:
> Someone (I know
> not who) said it best, which I try to reproduce with: Long passages of
> boredom punctuated by occasional bursts of breathtaking music.
Or was that about Bruckner ?
> Someone (I know
> not who) said it best, which I try to reproduce with: Long passages of
> boredom punctuated by occasional bursts of breathtaking music.
Last time I "heard" ( ie , PBS TV ) Voigt was in the Met's "Fanciulla
del West " . Now that is a great opera !
Dufus
jrsnfld
Apr 23, 2012, 12:26:19 PM4/23/12
to
On Apr 23, 9:04 am, "William Sommerwerck" <grizzledgee...@comcast.net>
wrote:
I felt Siegfried was the most boring of the Ring dramas until I
actually saw it performed. Later, playing it in the pit reinforced my
opinion. There's comedy and high spirits in Act 1, some of Wagner's
best and best-sustained music in Act 2, as well as all the high drama
and emotion one gets with Act 3--basically I now consider it,
musically and dramatically, a great high point of a cycle that
basically no low points.
--Jeff
wrote:
actually saw it performed. Later, playing it in the pit reinforced my
opinion. There's comedy and high spirits in Act 1, some of Wagner's
best and best-sustained music in Act 2, as well as all the high drama
and emotion one gets with Act 3--basically I now consider it,
musically and dramatically, a great high point of a cycle that
basically no low points.
--Jeff
O
Apr 23, 2012, 1:07:41 PM4/23/12
to
In article <1kizx9a.fsoqf818r2gwwN%csam...@inetworld.net>, Charles H.
³Wagner is a composer who has beautiful moments but awful quarter hours²
-Owen
Sampson <csam...@inetworld.net> wrote:
>
> The enthusiasm for Wagner's operas has always been pretty much a
> mystery to me, too, particularly so having two entire Rings under my
> belt along with scattered one-offs of his other operas. Someone (I know
> not who) said it best, which I try to reproduce with: Long passages of
> boredom punctuated by occasional bursts of breathtaking music.
That would be none other than Gioacchino Rossini:
>
> The enthusiasm for Wagner's operas has always been pretty much a
> mystery to me, too, particularly so having two entire Rings under my
> belt along with scattered one-offs of his other operas. Someone (I know
> not who) said it best, which I try to reproduce with: Long passages of
> boredom punctuated by occasional bursts of breathtaking music.
³Wagner is a composer who has beautiful moments but awful quarter hours²
-Owen
Gerard
Apr 23, 2012, 1:19:24 PM4/23/12
to
William Sommerwerck <grizzle...@comcast.net> typed:
> > The enthusiasm for Wagner's operas has always been pretty
> > much a mystery to me, too, particularly so having two entire
> > Rings under my belt along with scattered one-offs of his other
> > operas. Someone (I know not who) said it best, which I try to
> > reproduce with: Long passages of boredom punctuated by
> > occasional bursts of breathtaking music.
>
> I think one's reaction is largely dependent on the performance.
I don't think so. Beautifully performed boredom causes the same reaction.
> > much a mystery to me, too, particularly so having two entire
> > Rings under my belt along with scattered one-offs of his other
> > operas. Someone (I know not who) said it best, which I try to
> > reproduce with: Long passages of boredom punctuated by
> > occasional bursts of breathtaking music.
>
> I think one's reaction is largely dependent on the performance.
William Sommerwerck
Apr 23, 2012, 3:25:40 PM4/23/12
to
"Gerard" <ghend-nos...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:3a460$4f958f23$5356543a$14...@cache80.multikabel.net...
Gerard, sometimes you argue for the sake of arguing. If Wagner is sometimes
boring, it might not be because the music itself is boring.
news:3a460$4f958f23$5356543a$14...@cache80.multikabel.net...
boring, it might not be because the music itself is boring.
Gerard
Apr 23, 2012, 3:51:27 PM4/23/12
to
William Sommerwerck <grizzle...@comcast.net> typed:
> If Wagner is
> sometimes boring, it might not be because the music itself is boring.
Consider the possibility that he is boring, most of the time, because of his
music.
How else could he be boring??
> "Gerard" <ghend-nos...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:3a460$4f958f23$5356543a$14...@cache80.multikabel.net...
> > William Sommerwerck <grizzle...@comcast.net> typed:
>
> > > > The enthusiasm for Wagner's operas has always been pretty
> > > > much a mystery to me, too, particularly so having two entire
> > > > Rings under my belt along with scattered one-offs of his other
> > > > operas. Someone (I know not who) said it best, which I try to
> > > > reproduce with: Long passages of boredom punctuated by
> > > > occasional bursts of breathtaking music.
>
> > > I think one's reaction is largely dependent on the performance.
>
> > I don't think so. Beautifully performed boredom causes the same
> > reaction.
>
> Gerard, sometimes you argue for the sake of arguing.
Nope.
> news:3a460$4f958f23$5356543a$14...@cache80.multikabel.net...
> > William Sommerwerck <grizzle...@comcast.net> typed:
>
> > > > The enthusiasm for Wagner's operas has always been pretty
> > > > much a mystery to me, too, particularly so having two entire
> > > > Rings under my belt along with scattered one-offs of his other
> > > > operas. Someone (I know not who) said it best, which I try to
> > > > reproduce with: Long passages of boredom punctuated by
> > > > occasional bursts of breathtaking music.
>
> > > I think one's reaction is largely dependent on the performance.
>
> > I don't think so. Beautifully performed boredom causes the same
> > reaction.
>
> Gerard, sometimes you argue for the sake of arguing.
> If Wagner is
> sometimes boring, it might not be because the music itself is boring.
music.
How else could he be boring??
wagnerfan
Apr 23, 2012, 3:58:27 PM4/23/12
to
On Mon, 23 Apr 2012 08:51:45 -0700, csam...@inetworld.net (Charles H.
Sampson) wrote:
>td <tomde...@mac.com> wrote:
>
>> singer. You can barely tell what note she is singing.
>>
>> ...
>> unadulterated crap Wagner wrote. The libretto is ludicrous, the music
>> meandering and pompously inflated if not simpering. Really! How this
>> stuff acquired its reputation is simply beyond me.
>>
>> ...
>
> I saw a performance of this Ring's Götterdämmerung at my local
>movie house. I highly reccommend it for anyone not living near one of
>the few major opera centers.
>
> The enthusiasm for Wagner's operas has always been pretty much a
>mystery to me, too, particularly so having two entire Rings under my
>belt along with scattered one-offs of his other operas. Someone (I know
>not who) said it best, which I try to reproduce with: Long passages of
>boredom punctuated by occasional bursts of breathtaking music.
>
> Charlie
Either you get it or you don't - and that is that!!! Of course
Sampson) wrote:
>td <tomde...@mac.com> wrote:
>
>> singer. You can barely tell what note she is singing.
>>
>> ...
>> unadulterated crap Wagner wrote. The libretto is ludicrous, the music
>> meandering and pompously inflated if not simpering. Really! How this
>> stuff acquired its reputation is simply beyond me.
>>
>> ...
>
> I saw a performance of this Ring's Götterdämmerung at my local
>movie house. I highly reccommend it for anyone not living near one of
>the few major opera centers.
>
> The enthusiasm for Wagner's operas has always been pretty much a
>mystery to me, too, particularly so having two entire Rings under my
>belt along with scattered one-offs of his other operas. Someone (I know
>not who) said it best, which I try to reproduce with: Long passages of
>boredom punctuated by occasional bursts of breathtaking music.
>
> Charlie
there is so much leakin' Deacon either doesn't get at all or gets it
wrong it just more culture added to the pile that is beyond his
understanding and appreciation. Wagner fan
wagnerfan
Apr 23, 2012, 3:59:12 PM4/23/12
to
On Mon, 23 Apr 2012 09:26:19 -0700 (PDT), jrsnfld <jrs...@aol.com>
wrote:
Siegfried is actually my favorite Ring opera. Wagner fan
wrote:
jrsnfld
Apr 23, 2012, 5:11:15 PM4/23/12
to
On Apr 23, 12:51 pm, "Gerard" <ghend-nospam_rik...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> William Sommerwerck <grizzledgee...@comcast.net> typed:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > "Gerard" <ghend-nospam_rik...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> >news:3a460$4f958f23$5356543a$14...@cache80.multikabel.net...
> > > William Sommerwerck <grizzledgee...@comcast.net> typed:
story, the performance, the ideas, the art form? There are a lot of
answers, and most of them involve the bored making the experience
boring for themselves.
--Jeff
> William Sommerwerck <grizzledgee...@comcast.net> typed:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > "Gerard" <ghend-nospam_rik...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> >news:3a460$4f958f23$5356543a$14...@cache80.multikabel.net...
> > > William Sommerwerck <grizzledgee...@comcast.net> typed:
>
> > > > > The enthusiasm for Wagner's operas has always been pretty
> > > > > much a mystery to me, too, particularly so having two entire
> > > > > Rings under my belt along with scattered one-offs of his other
> > > > > operas. Someone (I know not who) said it best, which I try to
> > > > > reproduce with: Long passages of boredom punctuated by
> > > > > occasional bursts of breathtaking music.
>
> > > > I think one's reaction is largely dependent on the performance.
>
> > > I don't think so. Beautifully performed boredom causes the same
> > > reaction.
>
> > Gerard, sometimes you argue for the sake of arguing.
>
> Nope.
>
> > If Wagner is
> > sometimes boring, it might not be because the music itself is boring.
>
> Consider the possibility that he is boring, most of the time, because of his
> music.
> How else could he be boring??
Um, let's see...because the listener isn't attuned to the music, the
> > > > > The enthusiasm for Wagner's operas has always been pretty
> > > > > much a mystery to me, too, particularly so having two entire
> > > > > Rings under my belt along with scattered one-offs of his other
> > > > > operas. Someone (I know not who) said it best, which I try to
> > > > > reproduce with: Long passages of boredom punctuated by
> > > > > occasional bursts of breathtaking music.
>
> > > > I think one's reaction is largely dependent on the performance.
>
> > > I don't think so. Beautifully performed boredom causes the same
> > > reaction.
>
> > Gerard, sometimes you argue for the sake of arguing.
>
> Nope.
>
> > If Wagner is
> > sometimes boring, it might not be because the music itself is boring.
>
> Consider the possibility that he is boring, most of the time, because of his
> music.
> How else could he be boring??
story, the performance, the ideas, the art form? There are a lot of
answers, and most of them involve the bored making the experience
boring for themselves.
--Jeff
William Sommerwerck
Apr 23, 2012, 5:32:08 PM4/23/12
to
> Um, let's see... because the listener isn't attuned to the music,
do -- present an engaging performance.
> the story, the performance, the ideas, the art form? There are
> a lot of answers, and most of them involve the bored making
> the experience boring for themselves.
And then, of course, the conductor might not be doing what he was hired to
> a lot of answers, and most of them involve the bored making
> the experience boring for themselves.
do -- present an engaging performance.
Gerard
Apr 23, 2012, 5:55:51 PM4/23/12
to
William Sommerwerck <grizzle...@comcast.net> typed:
Yet consider the possibility that the music itself is boring.
William Sommerwerck
Apr 23, 2012, 7:30:19 PM4/23/12
to
"Gerard" <ghend-nos...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:bbe1e$4f95cfc9$5356543a$29...@cache50.multikabel.net...
to the conclusion that, broadly speaking, there isn't much truly boring
music out there. Either the listener is incapable of grasping it, or the
conductor is unable to find a way to communicate the music's
essence/character/nature.
Gerard
Apr 24, 2012, 4:10:06 AM4/24/12
to
William Sommerwerck <grizzle...@comcast.net> typed:
I disagree. There's a lot of music that's boring. Specially when compared to a
lot of other music.
> Either the listener is incapable of
> grasping it, or the conductor is unable to find a way to communicate
> the music's essence/character/nature.
So a composer is never to "blame"?
> "Gerard" <ghend-nos...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:bbe1e$4f95cfc9$5356543a$29...@cache50.multikabel.net...
> > William Sommerwerck <grizzle...@comcast.net> typed:
>
> > > > Um, let's see... because the listener isn't attuned to the
> > > > music, the story, the performance, the ideas, the art form?
> > > > There are
> > > > a lot of answers, and most of them involve the bored making
> > > > the experience boring for themselves.
>
> > > And then, of course, the conductor might not be doing what
> > > he was hired to do -- present an engaging performance.
>
> > Yet consider the possibility that the music itself is boring.
>
> I've considered that many times. Over almost 50 years' listening,
> I've come to the conclusion that, broadly speaking, there isn't much
> truly boring music out there.
Do you mean this in general?
> news:bbe1e$4f95cfc9$5356543a$29...@cache50.multikabel.net...
> > William Sommerwerck <grizzle...@comcast.net> typed:
>
> > > > Um, let's see... because the listener isn't attuned to the
> > > > music, the story, the performance, the ideas, the art form?
> > > > There are
> > > > a lot of answers, and most of them involve the bored making
> > > > the experience boring for themselves.
>
> > > And then, of course, the conductor might not be doing what
> > > he was hired to do -- present an engaging performance.
>
> > Yet consider the possibility that the music itself is boring.
>
> I've considered that many times. Over almost 50 years' listening,
> I've come to the conclusion that, broadly speaking, there isn't much
> truly boring music out there.
I disagree. There's a lot of music that's boring. Specially when compared to a
lot of other music.
> Either the listener is incapable of
> grasping it, or the conductor is unable to find a way to communicate
> the music's essence/character/nature.
herman
Apr 24, 2012, 5:06:09 AM4/24/12
to
On 24 avr, 10:10, "Gerard" <ghend-nospam_rik...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> So a composer is never to "blame"?
Lots of crap gets produced every day, but do consider the possibility
>
> So a composer is never to "blame"?
that a composer whose music is still performed after a century or more
is less boring than you are.
Never mind Deacon or Dufus; they have piano encore attention spans.
To be honest I rarely ever listen to Wagner, but that's not Wagner's
fault.
William Sommerwerck
Apr 24, 2012, 5:13:38 AM4/24/12
to
"Gerard" <ghend-nos...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:ddb6b$4f965fc0$5356543a$10...@cache90.multikabel.net...
> So a composer is never to "blame"?
responses are too-often reflexive gainsayings.
Johannes Roehl
Apr 24, 2012, 5:31:42 AM4/24/12
to
alte Drache (i.e. the devil) brennt vor Neid" in some Bach cantata) and
"der Wurm". It's "das Ungeheuer" (the monster), though. And the
dragon-like creature in the first scene of Die Zauberflöte is called a
snake (listige Schlange) which is feminine. For more frustration see
Mark Twain on German grammar.
William Sommerwerck
Apr 24, 2012, 6:15:05 AM4/24/12
to
"Johannes Roehl" <parr...@web.de> wrote in message
news:9vna7s...@mid.individual.net...
German is an appallingly inflected language.
news:9vna7s...@mid.individual.net...
> Am 23.04.2012 18:04, schrieb William Sommerwerck:
>> I think one's reaction is largely dependent on the performance. Say
>> what you will about Deborah Voigt's singing, the Met's Saturday
>> "Siegfried" was the liveliest performance I've ever heard. It was
>> anything but boring, especially for an opera that's generally
>> considered boring until "das wurm" appears. (Dragons are
>> neuter-gender, right?)
> Not in German grammar, they are masculine, it's both "der Drache"
> ("der alte Drache (ie, the devil) brennt vor Neid" in some Bach cantata)
>> I think one's reaction is largely dependent on the performance. Say
>> what you will about Deborah Voigt's singing, the Met's Saturday
>> "Siegfried" was the liveliest performance I've ever heard. It was
>> anything but boring, especially for an opera that's generally
>> considered boring until "das wurm" appears. (Dragons are
>> neuter-gender, right?)
> Not in German grammar, they are masculine, it's both "der Drache"
> and "der Wurm". It's "das Ungeheuer" (the monster), though. And the
> dragon-like creature in the first scene of "Die Zauberflöte" is called a
> snake (listige Schlange), which is feminine. For more frustration, see
> dragon-like creature in the first scene of "Die Zauberflöte" is called a
> Mark Twain on German grammar.
For those unfamiliar with the work, it's "The Horrible German Language".
German is an appallingly inflected language.
Dufus
Apr 24, 2012, 6:28:07 AM4/24/12
to
>On Apr 24, 4:06 am, herman <her...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Never mind Deacon or Dufus; they have piano encore attention spans.
>
Like Rossini and Brahms.
> Never mind Deacon or Dufus; they have piano encore attention spans.
>
herman
Apr 24, 2012, 6:18:37 AM4/24/12
to
On 24 avr, 12:15, "William Sommerwerck" <grizzledgee...@comcast.net>
wrote:
>
> German is an appallingly inflected language.
"German is a language" would be more correct.
That you find gender and cases appalling reflects on you; not the
language.
It's really the same as with "Wagner is boring".
wrote:
>
> German is an appallingly inflected language.
That you find gender and cases appalling reflects on you; not the
language.
It's really the same as with "Wagner is boring".
Gerard
Apr 24, 2012, 8:09:32 AM4/24/12
to
William Sommerwerck <grizzle...@comcast.net> typed:
Hm, then let's not discuss what your posts too-often are.
William Sommerwerck
Apr 24, 2012, 8:21:57 AM4/24/12
to
>> German is an appallingly inflected language.
> "German is a language" would be more correct.
> That you find gender and cases appalling reflects on you;
> not the language.
> It's really the same as with "Wagner is boring".
One of the great things about English is that it's a relatively uninflected
> "German is a language" would be more correct.
> That you find gender and cases appalling reflects on you;
> not the language.
> It's really the same as with "Wagner is boring".
language. To someone who grew up with English, German's heavy inflection --
which is worse than any modern Romance language's -- is an annoying barrier
to learning it.
William Sommerwerck
Apr 24, 2012, 8:23:36 AM4/24/12
to
>>> So a composer is never to "blame"?
>> Gerard, do you understand what "arguing for the sake of arguing"
>> means? Your responses are too-often reflexive gainsayings.
> Hm, then let's not discuss what your posts too-often are.
The next time I post such a post, please point it out to me. I want to see
>> Gerard, do you understand what "arguing for the sake of arguing"
>> means? Your responses are too-often reflexive gainsayings.
> Hm, then let's not discuss what your posts too-often are.
that I'm actually doing this -- which I don't believe I am.
Johannes Roehl
Apr 24, 2012, 9:49:35 AM4/24/12
to
far as I know) all the slavic languages. So study Latin and Russian or
Polish for a few years and you will turn to German with relief
afterwards... ;)
And despite Twains complaints usually grammatical gender corresponds
quite well to natural gender and there are rules for abstracta and
diminutives. Diminutive forms are neutral, thus the grammatical
neutrality of "Mädchen" (girl), this also holds for proper names, so
Gretchen (as in Faust) is grammatically neutral as well! (But don't ask
me, why "Weib" (somewhat old-fashioned for woman) is neutral...)
But it sure helps to have it as a mother tongue...
Johannes
herman
Apr 24, 2012, 1:28:25 PM4/24/12
to
On 24 avr, 14:21, "William Sommerwerck" <grizzledgee...@comcast.net>
wrote:
heat - sweat - heart
pan - lawn - hat - had
You figure it out
There is very little correspondence between the characters on paper
(screen, whatever) and the pronunciation.
Unless you watch a lot of tv.
wrote:
> >> German is an appallingly inflected language.
> > "German is a language" would be more correct.
> > That you find gender and cases appalling reflects on you;
> > not the language.
> > It's really the same as with "Wagner is boring".
>
> One of the great things about English is that it's a relatively uninflected
> language.
The downside is there is no way of knowing how to pronounce it.
> > "German is a language" would be more correct.
> > That you find gender and cases appalling reflects on you;
> > not the language.
> > It's really the same as with "Wagner is boring".
>
> One of the great things about English is that it's a relatively uninflected
> language.
heat - sweat - heart
pan - lawn - hat - had
You figure it out
There is very little correspondence between the characters on paper
(screen, whatever) and the pronunciation.
Unless you watch a lot of tv.
Edward Cowan
Apr 24, 2012, 5:48:10 PM4/24/12
to
The Bach cantata is BWV 130, "Herr Gott, dich loben alle wir". Bach
includes a lot of timpani beats in that aria, suggesting to me the old
dragon (Satan) stamping with his (cloven) feet. The entire cantata is
splendid, and that aria is one of my favorites. DFD sings it very well
in the Richter recording. --E.A.C.
Johannes Roehl <parr...@web.de> wrote:
>
> Not in German grammar, they are masculine, it's both "der Drache" ("der
> alte Drache (i.e. the devil) brennt vor Neid" in some Bach cantata) and
> "der Wurm". It's "das Ungeheuer" (the monster), though. And the
> dragon-like creature in the first scene of Die Zauberflöte is called a
> snake (listige Schlange) which is feminine. For more frustration see
> Mark Twain on German grammar.
--
hrabanus
includes a lot of timpani beats in that aria, suggesting to me the old
dragon (Satan) stamping with his (cloven) feet. The entire cantata is
splendid, and that aria is one of my favorites. DFD sings it very well
in the Richter recording. --E.A.C.
Johannes Roehl <parr...@web.de> wrote:
>
> Not in German grammar, they are masculine, it's both "der Drache" ("der
> alte Drache (i.e. the devil) brennt vor Neid" in some Bach cantata) and
> "der Wurm". It's "das Ungeheuer" (the monster), though. And the
> dragon-like creature in the first scene of Die Zauberflöte is called a
> snake (listige Schlange) which is feminine. For more frustration see
> Mark Twain on German grammar.
hrabanus
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