BWV 1079...

MELMOTH

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Feb 20, 2021, 2:32:36 PM2/20/21

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What is your favorite version of the Musical Offering?...
Personally, I have five:

- Leonhadt Consort (RCA)...Perfection ?..Maybe...Balance, inner light,
variety of climates...

- Scherchen I (stereo 1960, with Viennese soloists ;
Tahra)...bewitchingly slow tempos that distil the slightest polyphony,
the slightest harmonic mirror...Finely chiselled decorative figures,
especially in the trio sonata...

But I still prefer the

- Scherchen II...(mono 1951) English Soloists (English Baroque
Orchestra)...Livelier tempos, full of alacrity, respecting in my
opinion perhaps more the "spirit" of Bach's "Music"...

- Contentus Musicus (Teldec)...Beautiful poetic invention, very
expressive phrasing...

- Musica Antiqua Koln (Archiv)...More severe...More "Art of
Fugue"...Ambiguous but nevertheless fascinating...

There is also the Linde Copnsort...Alma Musica...N.Marriner (not
bad)...Menuhin (made by himself)...Same for Markevitch...Casals...And
others Munchinger...Dâhler...Richter...Redel...etc...

Chris from Lafayette

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Feb 20, 2021, 3:29:53 PM2/20/21

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Markevitch, no doubt! Made in the days of yore, before the HIP pestilence had spread! I haven't heard the Menuhin recording, but I suspect I'd like it too.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ew4DllGeWHc

Frank Berger

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Feb 20, 2021, 8:05:53 PM2/20/21

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I think the one you call here Scherchen I was recorded in 1950 not 1960. There was actually an early Scherchen recording. 1948 or 1949. Not sure how or if it was actually released.

The one you call Scherchen II with English Soloists...... I can't find that any discography. Do you have a reference?

There was also a 1964 Scherchen recordings released on Westminster. I have transfer on Rediscovery.

MELMOTH

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Feb 21, 2021, 4:54:07 AM2/21/21

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Frank Berger a émis l'idée suivante :

> There was also a 1964 Scherchen recordings released on Westminster. I have
> transfer on Rediscovery.

a) - Vienna Symphony Orchestra (Vuataz Orchestration) - LP WL 5070,
NIXA WLP 5070,XWN18375 - CD : Universal MVCW 18015 (Japon).

b) - Members of Vienna Wind Group ; 6/1964 (Schechen
orchestration...The slowest verion of the four) CD Tahra 3003/4 (with 4
suites for orchestra)
LP : XWN 18089, WST 17089, ABC MS 840, Warner-Pionner 25PI2169 (Japon)

c) - Soloists of Berlin Radio Orchestra (30/01/1949 - Orchestration
Vuataz) ; CD RZ 60001

c) - Members of the Vienna Symphony Orchestra - 23/06/1950 (Vuataz) CD
Tahra 185 Vanausek (Flute) - Wâchter (Oboe) - Noblinger (English Horn)
- Killinger (Basson) - G.Swoboda (1rst violon) - -Bog (2nd violon) -
Kreiner (Cello) - Rapf (Harpsichord). In Sherchen Scribendum set.

MELMOTH

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Feb 21, 2021, 4:59:57 AM2/21/21

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(supersedes <60322dbc$0$3249$426a...@news.free.fr>)

Frank Berger a émis l'idée suivante :

> There was also a 1964 Scherchen recordings released on Westminster. I have
> transfer on Rediscovery.

a) - Vienna Symphony Orchestra (Vuataz Orchestration) - LP WL 5070,
NIXA WLP 5070,XWN18375 - CD : Universal MVCW 18015 (Japon).

b) - Members of Vienna Wind Group ; 6/1964 (Schechen
orchestration...The slowest verion of the four) CD Tahra 3003/4 (with 4
suites for orchestra)
LP : XWN 18089, WST 17089, ABC MS 840, Warner-Pionner 25PI2169 (Japon)

c) - Soloists of Berlin Radio Orchestra (30/01/1949 - Orchestration
Vuataz) ; CD RZ 60001

d) - Members of the Vienna Symphony Orchestra - 23/06/1950 (Vuataz) CD

Tahra 185 Vanausek (Flute) - Wâchter (Oboe) - Noblinger (English Horn)
- Killinger (Basson) - G.Swoboda (1rst violon) - -Bog (2nd violon) -
Kreiner (Cello) - Rapf (Harpsichord). In Sherchen Scribendum set.

NB : there is NOT verion whith english soloists (who play Suites for
orchestra) !...Error on my part !...

Chris J.

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Feb 21, 2021, 5:06:46 AM2/21/21

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On 20 Feb 2021 Frank Berger wrote:

> I think the one you call here Scherchen I was recorded in 1950 not 1960.
> There was actually an early Scherchen recording. 1948 or 1949. Not
> sure how or if it was actually released.
>
> The one you call Scherchen II with English Soloists...... I can't find
> that any discography. Do you have a reference?
>
> There was also a 1964 Scherchen recordings released on Westminster. I
> have transfer on Rediscovery

I. Musical Offering BWV 1079, arranged by Roger Vuataz
Hermann Scherchen / Rundfunk-Sinfonieorchesters Berlin Orchestra
Edition RZ
Jan 30, 1949
1st recording of Musical Offering BWV 1079 by H. Scherchen. Recorded in
Berlin, Germany.

https://www.bach-cantatas.com/NVP/Scherchen.htm

http://math.uni.lodz.pl/~frydrych/www.jsbach.org/
scherchenmusicaloffering.htmlediscovery.

II. The 1950/51 recording was released on Westminster:
Manufactured By - MCA Victor, Inc.
Recorded At - Mozartsaal Des Wiener Konzerthauses
9 soloists / Hermann Scherchen

Bassoon – Franz Killinger
(cut)
Violin [2nd] – Alois Bog

* R. Vuataz Version For Flute, 2 Violins, Oboe, English Horn, Bassoon,
Viola, Cello, And Cembalo
* Recorded: 1951, Mozartsaal, Konzerthaus, Wien
* same to No.35 of Westminster Legacy.
* First LP issues; Westminster WL-5070

https://www.discogs.com/JSBach-Scherchen-Das-Musikalisches-OpferThe-
Musical-Offering-BWV1079/release/14797208

https://www.discogs.com/Johann-Sebastian-Bach-Hermann-Scherchen-Das-
Musikalisches-Opfer-The-Musical-Offering-Vuataz-Version-/release/12199467
("Recorded: 1950/1951.")

(Also released on Archipel)

III. Orchestra of the Vienna State Opera/Hermann Scherchen
Recorded Vienna 1962 (Suites) and 1964 (Musical Offering)
TAHRA TAH WEST 3003-3004

"The Musical Offering is heard in Scherchen’s own edition and reprises
the same kind of tempi heard in the companion Suites. He’d premiered
Roger Vuataz’s nine-instrument chamber version back in 1936, a version he
recorded fourteen years later. For this recording, made in 1964,
Scherchen orchestrated it anew bringing some remarkable sonorities and
characteristic individuality of utterance. It’s by no means as outrageous
an approach as his Art of Fugue orchestration, which he premiered in
1965."

http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2006/Feb06/
Bach_suites_TAH3003-4.htm

Chris

MELMOTH

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Feb 21, 2021, 6:17:51 AM2/21/21

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MELMOTH avait écrit le 21/02/2021 :
> NB : there is NOT verion whith english soloists (who play Suites for
> orchestra) !...Error on my part !...

My bibliographical sources are the catalog (of 64 pages) published by
Tahra, about thirty years ago, under the supervision of Myriam
Sherchen, one of the daughters of the Genius...
No doubt it would need to be updated... Unfortunately, Tahra has not
existed for a few years...

Mandryka

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Feb 21, 2021, 4:23:52 PM2/21/21

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One you may want to seek out for a very expressive trio sonata is The Bach Players. If you like flute, Kiyomi Suga on Suzuki’s recording is gorgeous. Savall has a good keyboard player with Hantai. The recording from Aston Magna is interesting not least for the fortepiano. Konstantin Lifschitz recorded the whole lot on a piano, using dubbing for the trio sonata!

Martin Cohn

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Feb 22, 2021, 1:47:45 AM2/22/21

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On Saturday, February 20, 2021 at 11:32:36 AM UTC-8, MELMOTH wrote:

I have Scherchen II and also Savall. Both are really excellent. Strangely enough my favorite recording is the one done by Konstantin Lifschitz on modern piano. It's some of the best Bach playing I've ever heard.

Martin