Wilhelm Kempff -- Please recommend recordings
Matthew B. Tepper
recordings of Beethoven piano sonatas. What are some other recordings
by this pianist which might be particularly worth investigating?
(Persons who answer "all of them!" will be beating about the head and
shoulders with a herring.)
--
"Opera is when a guy gets stabbed in the back and instead of bleeding
he sings." -- Ed Gardner
Matthew B. Tepper du...@deltanet.com CIS: 71031,2415
Visit my Berlioz page! http://www.deltanet.com/users/ducky/index.htm
Dan Koren
>I remember years ago listening to, and enjoying, Wilhelm Kempff's
>recordings of Beethoven piano sonatas. What are some other recordings
>by this pianist which might be particularly worth investigating?
>(Persons who answer "all of them!" will be beating about the head and
>shoulders with a herring.)
In my opinion the *only* Kempff recordings worth listening to are
the pre-war Bach WTC and LvB Sonatas on Polydor if you can find
them - and you will also need a 78 rpm turntable! :-)
There is also a 1957 performance of the Brahms 1st with Franz
Konwitschny conducting one of the East German orchestras (either
Leipzig or Dresden) recorded by Eterna and recently reissued on
Berlin Classics. I am very fond of this performance since it is
the one I used in my youth to learn the piece. The only problem
with it is that is waaaay too slow. I used to play it at 45 rpm
instead of 33 rpm, which turned it into a great performance!
But I don't know how one could do that with a CD :-)
dk
Justin C. Urcis
>
> The pre-war WTC is awesome! But then it was all downhill from there. And
> if you want a good laugh at what could pass for a pianist in Europe just
> after the war, listen to Kempff's Chopin and Liszt performances on Decca.
> With that kind of performance one would not pass admission to the Moscow
> Conservatory, let alone graduate.
> dk
>
Just to clarify my position. The WTC recordings i was refering to are
the ones on DG that he did in his 80's. I agree with Koren that those
are awful. I do not dispute Kempff's earlier work.
In terms of Kempff's Chopin and Liszt, I don't think Dan's comment is
fair. His comment implicity assumes that Kempff passed in Europe
because of his Chopin
and LIszt playing. I don't know of Kempff's programming, but do know he
is known more as a player of the Austro-German repertoire(i.e. Beethoven,
Schubert, Brahms) rather than Chopin and Liszt. I don't think I would be
too crazy about Kempff's Chopin. But the point is that just because he
wasn't a good Chopin player doesn't mean that European audiences are
clueless. (This is another issue) But rather, some musicians aren't
great at everything. I don't think Vladimir Horowitz was famous for his
Mozart, and I don't think that Glenn Gould was famous for his Chopin. Is
that to say that people who like Horowitz and Gould are
nuts....doubtful...rather Horowitz's RRachmaninoff and LIszt and
Scriabin(as well as many other things) are awesome and Gould's Bach is
imilarly great.
There are a few exceptions in the world: I don't think I've ever heard
something by Michaelangeli which is not interesting. Except maybe that
EMI studio Carnaval(YUCK!!!) BUt I think you get my point.
Justin
Farhan Malik
>In my opinion the *only* Kempff recordings worth listening to are
>the pre-war Bach WTC and LvB Sonatas on Polydor if you can find
>them - and you will also need a 78 rpm turntable! :-)
>There is also a 1957 performance of the Brahms 1st with Franz
>Konwitschny conducting one of the East German orchestras (either
>Leipzig or Dresden) recorded by Eterna and recently reissued on
>Berlin Classics. I am very fond of this performance since it is
>the one I used in my youth to learn the piece. The only problem
>with it is that is waaaay too slow. I used to play it at 45 rpm
>instead of 33 rpm, which turned it into a great performance!
Doth my eyes deceive me? In one thread Mr. Koren bashes
William Kapell, one of the greatest pianist of the century, and in
this thread he recommends the recordings of Guglielmo. Alas, I fear
the worst. My deepest sympathies dk. Get well soon.
Farhan
Justin C. Urcis
>
> In my opinion the *only* Kempff recordings worth listening to are
> the pre-war Bach WTC and LvB Sonatas on Polydor if you can find
> them - and you will also need a 78 rpm turntable! :-)
>
> There is also a 1957 performance of the Brahms 1st with Franz
> Konwitschny conducting one of the East German orchestras (either
> Leipzig or Dresden) recorded by Eterna and recently reissued on
> Berlin Classics. I am very fond of this performance since it is
> the one I used in my youth to learn the piece. The only problem
> with it is that is waaaay too slow. I used to play it at 45 rpm
> instead of 33 rpm, which turned it into a great performance!
>
>
Koren thinks that the ONLY performances worth listening to are those
pre-war issues, but I must disagree. (By the way, I think Dante or
Arlechinno is beginning to release those. I saw a disc with the 1937(?)
Hammerklavier.)
AS far as the Brahms goes, there is some good playing but the orchestra
is horrid. With other good Brahms 1st...i wouldn't recommend it.
Dan is right in suggesting that Kempff's earlier recordings are better
than his late. As Kempff got old, his playing got less precise and his
sound wasn't as good. So the general guideling is if it's recorded after
1970, stay pretty far away. Some people like the late 2disc set of the
Bach transcriptions but this isn't that good. The WTC playing is
interesting but the Bach to get is the transscriptions done in the early
50's on Japanese Decca.
Other good performances are the schumann Concerto on London HIstorical
with a great Papillions and Arabeske(Sofronitzky's papillions is pretty
bad) Also, a newly released Schumann Fantasie and Symphonic Etudes on DG
for Kempff's 100th birthday is good. This was previously unreleased but
it is great playing. Stay away from the Schumann box set as the playing
isn't so great.
As far as Schub ert goes, Kempff does lots of interesting things. Kempff
is essentially a minituarist, so he works better in smaller things. I
recommend his Schubert Impromptus, but again these are only available in
Japan. Stick with Schnabel and Fischer for these. The Sonatas are a
mixed bag, lots of good playing but it's an expensive set which you can
hold off on.
One more disc to reccomnd is the Brahms on Galleria...it's 10.00 and well
worth it. Since there are relatively few *decent* recordings of these
works(Helen Grimaud should be avoided) this is one of the few truly good
sets. Very intimate playing. It ain't loud and "exciting" per say but
it's great music making and it grows on you.
Also the Beethoven concertos with Van Kempen are good...don't get the
ones with Leitner as they are not as good as the early ones. And STAY
away from the newly released Beethoven 3rd from the 40's. THis is way
too slow and pretty dull and the transfers SUCK!!
Good luck,
Justin
Dan Koren
>d...@netcom.com (Dan Koren) write:
>
>>In my opinion the *only* Kempff recordings worth listening to are
>>the pre-war Bach WTC and LvB Sonatas on Polydor if you can find
>>them - and you will also need a 78 rpm turntable! :-)
>
>>There is also a 1957 performance of the Brahms 1st with Franz
>>Konwitschny conducting one of the East German orchestras (either
>>Leipzig or Dresden) recorded by Eterna and recently reissued on
>>Berlin Classics. I am very fond of this performance since it is
>>the one I used in my youth to learn the piece. The only problem
>>with it is that is waaaay too slow. I used to play it at 45 rpm
>>instead of 33 rpm, which turned it into a great performance!
>
>William Kapell, one of the greatest pianist of the century, and in
>this thread he recommends the recordings of Guglielmo. Alas, I fear
>the worst. My deepest sympathies dk. Get well soon.
Looks like Farhan too has become humor impaired :-) I recommended
Guglielmo's Brahms 1 performance only if played at 45 rpm instead
of 33 rpm!
As to Kapell, with all due respect for his phenomenal pianistic
mechanism, I must say I do not find anything interesting in his
interpretations. Kapell may have been a great pianist, but that
does not necessarily imply he was also a great interpreter. I
find rather amazing that this distinction seems to be lost on
so many of the readers and contributors to this group. I do not
much care how well Kapell played as long as he did not have much
to say about the music that was new, insightful and original. I
must also say that I strongly object to your use of a derogatory
term such as "bashing". I am not bashing anyone. I simply have a
different scale of values than most other classical listeners,
and I have been quite forthright in stating and explaining it.
I consider music to be a performing art no less than acting is,
and I expect a top pianist that he is *living* the music rather
than he has only *learned* it and *plays* it well. I do not get
such an impression from Kapell's playing as I do from Richter,
Horowitz, Rubinstein or Michelangeli. The impression I get is
that of a phenomenal pianistic mechanism fueled by very high
energy and a desire to play the music to the hilt without
leaving anything to the imagination and without any sense of
real intimacy with the music.
I realize that my opinions on Kapell are not politically
correct, and I suspect the reason Kapell seems to be
above criticism for most readers of r.m.c. is his
tragic early death. This same reason also seems to be
at work for Lipatti and Solomon, and every time one
tries to express some reservations or disapproval of
their performances we immediately hear a loud outcry
of indignation.
Just my $.02.
dk
PS. And no, I do not rank Kapell among the greatest pianists
of this century (or any other), although I will certainly
grant you that he was a hell of a lot better than Kempff :-)
Michael Glover
>On Mon, 5 Feb 1996, Dan Koren wrote:
>
>>
>> The pre-war WTC is awesome! But then it was all downhill from there. And
>> if you want a good laugh at what could pass for a pianist in Europe just
>> after the war, listen to Kempff's Chopin and Liszt performances on Decca.
>> With that kind of performance one would not pass admission to the Moscow
>> Conservatory, let alone graduate.
>> dk
>>
>
>Just to clarify my position. The WTC recordings i was refering to are
>the ones on DG that he did in his 80's. I agree with Koren that those
>are awful. I do not dispute Kempff's earlier work.
>In terms of Kempff's Chopin and Liszt, I don't think Dan's comment is
>fair. His comment implicity assumes that Kempff passed in Europe
>because of his Chopin
>and LIszt playing. I don't know of Kempff's programming, but do know he
>is known more as a player of the Austro-German repertoire(i.e. Beethoven,
>Schubert, Brahms) rather than Chopin and Liszt. I don't think I would be
>too crazy about Kempff's Chopin. But the point is that just because he
>wasn't a good Chopin player doesn't mean that European audiences are
>clueless.
[edit]
>Justin
A couple of reviewers who recently wrote on the Kempff box set mentioned
that the greatness of Kempff derived from his inspiration in live
performance, a characteristic which was rarely caught in recordings. I
have heard virually nothing from Kempff that impresses me - and much that
sounds remarkably close to the work of a diligent amateur - but my
impression from the seasoned views of these writers was that Kempff's
abilities as a concert artist could not be judged fairly from his studio
work.
This does not explain the laudatory comments which so often greet reissues
of Kempff's later Beethoven recordings; I can only conclude that many
critics are unable to see that their emperor is severely under-dressed and
so interpolate an imaginary regal costume with which to cover his
embarrassment. Such critical inventions are certainly not limited to
Kempff, although they do tend to be reserved for pianists who have been
assigned the cliche of "worthy, classical, a real musician" rather than,
God forbid, those regarded as "Romantic virtuosi". I remember two Pollini
concerto performances in London - the Brahms 2 and Beethoven 4 - which
were outlandishly boring and, on both occasions, I read afterwards of
Pollini's "intellectual ruggedness" and "refusal to sacrifice the musical
line".....
MG
John Blair
>I remember years ago listening to, and enjoying, Wilhelm Kempff's
>recordings of Beethoven piano sonatas. What are some other recordings
>by this pianist which might be particularly worth investigating?
>(Persons who answer "all of them!" will be beating about the head and
>shoulders with a herring.)
I may get flamed for this, but I found his Bach (the DG Double set) to
be irresistable. Clearly, not Gould by a mile. Rather "heavy" and
romantic, but I like his take the Jesu and Sleeper's Awake
transcriptions. I think he was near 80 when these were recorded.
John Blair
Alfredo Enrique Rivas
: John Blair
John:
I agree with you. Kempff was a very special pianist, as a collector of
his work I disagree with almost every commentary that I've read
following the original posting. But I might be just a fan and that
doesn't necessarily is a good argument in Kempff's favor.
Neil Tingley
<glo...@etgate.co.uk> writes
>
>
>A couple of reviewers who recently wrote on the Kempff box set mentioned
>that the greatness of Kempff derived from his inspiration in live
>performance, a characteristic which was rarely caught in recordings. I
>have heard virually nothing from Kempff that impresses me - and much that
>sounds remarkably close to the work of a diligent amateur - but my
>impression from the seasoned views of these writers was that Kempff's
>abilities as a concert artist could not be judged fairly from his studio
>work.
>
>This does not explain the laudatory comments which so often greet reissues
>of Kempff's later Beethoven recordings; I can only conclude that many
>critics are unable to see that their emperor is severely under-dressed and
>so interpolate an imaginary regal costume with which to cover his
>embarrassment. Such critical inventions are certainly not limited to
>Kempff, although they do tend to be reserved for pianists who have been
>assigned the cliche of "worthy, classical, a real musician" rather than,
>God forbid, those regarded as "Romantic virtuosi". I remember two Pollini
>concerto performances in London - the Brahms 2 and Beethoven 4 - which
>were outlandishly boring and, on both occasions, I read afterwards of
>Pollini's "intellectual ruggedness" and "refusal to sacrifice the musical
>line".....
>
I've just spent 2 hours in the music library reading some of David
Dubal's book about pianists - not the conversation one, but more of a
biographical dictionary (which BTW does NOT mention Sokolov, but does
mention so many lightweights I git lost !). He says he goes to Pollini
recitals in NY not to be moved spiritually but just to hear the mind and
the technique of the man. He suggests Pollini's "magic" is intellectual
and emotional austerity ! I must say I was transfixed by a radio relay
of a London performance he gave of a Mozart concerto for many of the
same reasons.
Back to DK's point. He's given a good clue into helping me understand
some of the criteria by which he judges a performance. I personally am
not too swayed towards the Theatrical side of music making which is
perhaps why I'm so sympathetic to Gould and Solomon; both pianists whose
music making is decidedly not intimate and personal.
Michael is a little unfair to Kempff I think. When I was younger, at
school, my favourtite Beethoven recordings were his. I remember a friend
lending me the complete stereo DGG sonata cycle and listening to them
was a rare and spiritual experience. My judgement was not mature as it
is now (?), but I do remember loathing Ashkenazy's concerto cycle and
much prefer Kempff's then. Is this the Damien Hurst thing again ? Where
two camps are completely unable to fathom each other's judgement of an
artist ?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Neil Tingley Furtwaengler FAQ from r.m.c.r contributers at:
ne...@music.demon.co.uk http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/music/furt.html
Edinburgh, SCOTLAND * GG mailing list: f_m...@gandalf.rutgers.edu *
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Matthew B. Tepper
Ian Bell
John Blair <Brth...@kincyb.com> wrote:
>
>I may get flamed for this, but I found his Bach (the DG Double set) to
>be irresistable.
>
(hard to find in North America) the DG Classikon disc of the
Schubert D. 960 sonata (from a complete set).
That's in addition to the Beethoven, of course.
--
Ian Bell
ib...@epas.utoronto.ca
David Emery
Brahms Piano Pieces Op 116-119 DG
4 Mozart Piano Concertos DG 2CDs
frank forman
on this Newsgroup and can post it again. Dan Koren prasied the pre-war
recordings, but I have only a few of them in my collection. Would anyone
who has any of these like to swap tape copies? I can supply tapes of all
of his LPs. I also have the first and only acoustic recording of the
Beethoven first Piano Concerto, with Anon E. Mouse conducting the Berlin
Stae Opera Orchestra. Quite a vigorous reading and definitely worth
comparing to his mono LP and stereo LP remakes.
Frank
Jeffrey Swartwout
> I'm sorry now that I asked.
Well, don't be. Wilhelm Kempff was one of the greatest pianistic geniuses
of the twentieth century. His traversals of the complete Beethoven--both
of them (mono and stereo)--are the most inspired and spiritually
satisfying we shall get for a long while. He wasn't interested in romantic
excess or self-aggrandizement. His was a quieter muse--thoughtful,
spiritual and, consequently, profoundly moving. As for his Bach (yes, the
version made in his 80's) we can only regret that he didn't venture more
often into this repertoire. There is an affinity between Bach's aesthetic
aims and Kempff's--a desire to achieve much through an economy of means.
Apparently for the Kempff-bashers, Wilhelm doesn't seem to rumble and roar
enough for their tastes. Alas.
Flame away.
Bernard S. Greenberg
: Beethoven first Piano Concerto, with Anon E. Mouse conducting the Berlin
: Stae Opera Orchestra.
His brother conducted Stokowski's transcription of Bach's D Minor
Toccata and Fugue in a famous film by Disney.
Bernie
b...@basistech.com
Max Schmeder
jsw...@teleport.com (Jeffrey Swartwout) wrote:
Well said!
Kempff was also an interesting composer, although his piano music is
butchered by a very cold-sounding Idil Biret (she had studied with him).
Max Schmeder
UC Santa Cruz
Martin Weatherston
Distribution: world
Kempff does have a 4-disc set on DG (did you mean this one?) that
is far from a sleeping pill. Kempff's exquisitely nuanced playing is
perfect in Schumann.
Martin
Yoel Lax (la...@futures.wharton.upenn.edu) wrote:
: I agree about his Beethoven recordings, but his 2CD set on DGF with
: Schumann piano music (incl. Carnaval) is a sleeping pill. The same is
: true about his Chopin. I guess the classic repertoire was more suitable
: for him...
: --
: Yoel :)
: ______________________________________________________
: Yoel Lax
: The Wharton School of the University of Pennsylvania
: e-mail: La...@wharton.upenn.edu
: phone : 215-417-5031
: ______________________________________________________
--
Martin Weatherston,
Philosophy & Religious Studies Dept.,
East Stroudsburg University,
East Stroudsburg, PA 18301.
Dan Koren
>
> Kempff does have a 4-disc set on DG (did you mean this one?) that
>is far from a sleeping pill. Kempff's exquisitely nuanced playing is
>perfect in Schumann.
>
>: I agree about his Beethoven recordings, but his 2CD set on DGF with
>: Schumann piano music (incl. Carnaval) is a sleeping pill. The same is
>: true about his Chopin. I guess the classic repertoire was more suitable
>: for him...
Martin,
You are right in that the Kempff Schumann set is not a sleeping pill.
It is a gallon of barbiturate. And so conveniently packaged one can
even take it a quart at a time.
:-)
dk