Festetics or Mosaiques Haydn?
lord_e...@my-deja.com
I'm looking for good HIP versions of Haydn's quartets. Currently it
looks like Festetics or Mosaiques... (I already have some nonHIP ones.)
I've tried the Festetics' Haydn in the Op. 9 quartets and really like
them. The sound is marvelous. On the negative side, they end up
sounding kind of uniform over longer stretches. They're also
slowish, as has been pointed out here, though in itself that's not
necessarily a problem for me.
The competition is Mosaiques, whom I haven't heard, but who apparently
are pretty similar. Which should I pick...? Is there a recommended
Mosaiques CD so I can try them out?
I scanned dejanews and found out that some of the Festetics discs used
to be at Berkshire ages ago. If these were still there the choice
might be rather simple. Currently I see the following available at
Amazon:
Op. 17 (new)
Op. 71+74
Op. 76+77+103
The Mosaiques has I think Op. 33, Op. 20, Op. 76. Any comments on
any of the above would be great.
(Has any HIP quartet done any of the quartets between Op. 33 and
Op. 71?)
Finally, if some unnamed person here wants to do a Haydn quartet (HIP
and nonHIP) evaluation, I wouldn't be unhappy. :)
(If a survey has been done and my deja-search missed it, please let me
know!)
Of course, all answers or comments will be appreciated...
Lena
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Steve Emerson
> The Mosaiques has I think Op. 33, Op. 20, Op. 76. Any comments on
> any of the above would be great.
And some (or all) of the last quartets.
This may make it a little easier: the Mosaiques' Op 33 and Op 20 are now
offered as budget-priced twofers, despite higher-priced incarnations
remaining in the pipeline. So you can easily hear for yourself. The Op
76, in a twofer released simultaneously, are higher-priced for some
reason. Of the Op 20 and 33, I guess I'd give the nod to the 20, though
I like both.
SE.
Simon Roberts
: I'm looking for good HIP versions of Haydn's quartets. Currently it
: looks like Festetics or Mosaiques... (I already have some nonHIP ones.)
It's not quite that simple (depending on what's in print). There is also
a set of op. 33 by the Apponyi Qt on Ars Musici which gets my vote for
best HIP (or, frankly, any other) recording of a Classical Period string
quartet - perhaps even better than the Quatuor Turner's Beethoven op. 18
and the Schuppanzigh's Beethoven disc; think MAK as string quartet....
There's also a good disc containing (maddeningly) only two of op. 54 on
Deutsche HM by the Smithson Qt, a good op. 77 by them on the same label
(not as good as the Mosaiques, I think), a fairly good but a bit dour and
plain op. 76 by the Kuijken Qt on Denon and - well, that may be it.
: I've tried the Festetics' Haydn in the Op. 9 quartets and really like
: them. The sound is marvelous. On the negative side, they end up
: sounding kind of uniform over longer stretches. They're also
: slowish, as has been pointed out here, though in itself that's not
: necessarily a problem for me.
Since you've commented favorably on the sound, I assume you refer to their
remake on Arcana, for whom they're recording all the "real" quartets.
They previously recorded opp. 9, 17 (?), 33, 64 and 77 for Quintana - good
performances but undermined for my taste by the rather distant, blurry
sound which blunts attacks and dulls the tone of their instruments,
resulting in a generally bland effect.
: The competition is Mosaiques, whom I haven't heard, but who apparently
: are pretty similar. Which should I pick...? Is there a recommended
: Mosaiques CD so I can try them out?
Their op. 20 has recently been reissued as a twofer; try that, perhaps.
Their op. 77 may also have been reissued at reduced price - can't
remember. I usually prefer the Mosaiques where there's the choice, though
sometimes there's not much in it and at least once (Schubert 804; the
Mosaiques threaten to doze off in i) I prefer the Festetics. Where the
differences are most pronounced, the Festetics can seem too slow and
square and stiff - at similar tempi the Mosaiques usually manage to
sustain a sense of forward movement; they're also tonally more varied and
more imaginative in their phrasing and even better recorded. I should
note that the Mosaiques aren't always slow: much of op. 20 isn't, while
their op. 33 only seem a bit sedate compared to the Apponyi - but then
just about anything would.
: I scanned dejanews and found out that some of the Festetics discs used
: to be at Berkshire ages ago. If these were still there the choice
: might be rather simple. Currently I see the following available at
: Amazon:
: Op. 17 (new)
: Op. 71+74
: Op. 76+77+103
These are all good, though I marginally prefer the Mosaiques in 76-103.
Mosaiques haven't done opp. 17 or 71/4 yet.
: (Has any HIP quartet done any of the quartets between Op. 33 and
: Op. 71?)
See above. There's also a group called the Nomos Qt who have recorded
op. 50 on cpo. I think they use modern instruments but are obviously
HIP-influenced. Whatever their game is, this is probably the best op. 50
I've encountered (not that the competition is stiff, but even if it were
stronger they would fare well, I think).
: Finally, if some unnamed person here wants to do a Haydn quartet (HIP
: and nonHIP) evaluation, I wouldn't be unhappy. :)
: (If a survey has been done and my deja-search missed it, please let me
: know!)
I won't do that but will mention a few others to consider. Much of the
Griller quartet's opp. 71/74 is superb (if you don't mind lack of
repeats); theirs is still the only op. 74/3 I've heard whose outer
movements don't suggest that the Rider in question (or the horse) is
vastly overweight. The best op. 64 on CD may still be the ludicrously
cheap Pilz effort that's been the subject of recent threads. Competition
is stiffer in op. 76; the Berg and Carmina qts are pretty good here. If
you're interested in a non-HIP op. 20, the Hagen are lively and very well
played.
I suppose something should be said about the Lindsay Qt, partly because in
some quarters they are IT for Haydn (and, it seems, whatever else they
do). I must confess I quite like their opp. 54/55, but that's partly
because the competition is so weak (Panocha are better, though). What
they have in their favour is a degree of verve that most others shun in
this music. The problem (aside from their usual technical flaws) is that
it often seems pretty careless or even mindless. Take their live op.
20/4, for instance (a particular favorite of mine; I wish DG would reissue
the Tokyo Qt recording - excellent finale); in the finale one initially
thinks "wow! such speed and flair!" But pretty soon one thinks "Hmmm.
Can't they do anything aside from mere speed?" They're so fast that they
can't do anything with it (or perhaps it would be more accurate to say
that they don't know what to do with it so they just play it really
fast). I can't comment on all their Haydn qt recordings because I've not
heard them. Hurwitz's extremely negative review of their op. 76 looks
quite plausible, given my reaction to the rest of their recordings that I
know.
Finally, the Kodaly Qt on Naxos. These often get fairly high praise (I
think Penguin gives their op. 76 a rosette). To these ears they're no
more than dull.
Really finally: a set of the whole lot will be released by Philips in the
next month or so (or is it already out?). I look forward to reading
reviews....
Simon
lord_e...@my-deja.com
seme...@dnai.com wrote:
> lord_e...@my-deja.com wrote:
> > The Mosaiques has I think Op. 33, Op. 20, Op. 76. Any comments on
> > any of the above would be great.
> the Mosaiques' Op 33 and Op 20 are now
> offered as budget-priced twofers, despite higher-priced incarnations
> remaining in the pipeline. So you can easily hear for yourself.
Thanks very much, Steve! That helps.
lord_e...@my-deja.com
si...@dept.english.upenn.edu (Simon Roberts) wrote:
> lord_e...@my-deja.com wrote:
>
> : I'm looking for good HIP versions of Haydn's quartets. Currently it
> : looks like Festetics or Mosaiques... (I already have some nonHIP
ones.)
>
> It's not quite that simple
It never is... :)
[...]
Thanks very much for the answer, it's extremely helpful. I'll try out
the Mosaiques in Op. 20 or Op. 33, and go from there. Also Nomos in
Op. 50, and Lindsay in 54/55.
Just a few comments: I don't think Apponyi 33 is around anymore? I
have the Griller 71/4, and have heard the Kodaly 76, and agree with
you. (I don't think most of my current versions of the quartets are
mindblowing, so I'm pretty gratified to get pointers to nonHIP CDs
too! Thanks...)
>The best op. 64 on CD may still be the ludicrously cheap Pilz effort
>that's been the subject of recent threads.
I'd be pretty interested, but this has now become a unique collectors'
item? (Or at least I can't find it anywhere, cheap or not.)
>Really finally: a set of the whole lot will be released by Philips in
the
>next month or so (or is it already out?).
I think I missed who plays on this?
Simon Roberts
: >Really finally: a set of the whole lot will be released by Philips in
: the
: >next month or so (or is it already out?).
: I think I missed who plays on this?
I forget, which is why I maintained a tactful silence.... It's on the MDT
new release list, though.
Simon
lord_e...@my-deja.com
in
> : the
> : >next month or so (or is it already out?).
>
>
> I forget, which is why I maintained a tactful silence.... It's on the
> MDT new release list, though.
Got this from crotchet.co.uk (via a brief unintentional detour through
crochet.co.uk...)
CATALOGUE NR. 4646502 from Philips on a 21CD Set
PRICE: £ 119.99 including VAT or £ 102.12 excluding VAT
RELEASE DATE: 20-Nov-2000
COMPOSER: Joseph Haydn TITLE: Complete String Quartets
ARTISTS: Angeles String Qt
(Price is also tactfully in pounds. :) )
lord_e...@my-deja.com
lord_e...@my-deja.com wrote:
> Got this from crotchet.co.uk (via a brief unintentional detour through
> crochet.co.uk...)
And this as well:
CATALOGUE NR. LYR196 from Lyrinx on a CD
PRICE: £ 12.95 including VAT or £ 11.02 excluding VAT
RELEASE DATE: 25-Sep-2000
COMPOSER: Joseph Haydn TRACKS: String Quartet 'Lobkowitz' op.77
HobIII/81-82.
ARTISTS: Fine Arts Qt
I usually like the Fine Arts Quartet and was wondering if anyone has
heard this?
Simon Roberts
: Got this from crotchet.co.uk (via a brief unintentional detour through
: crochet.co.uk...)
: CATALOGUE NR. 4646502 from Philips on a 21CD Set
: PRICE: £ 119.99 including VAT or £ 102.12 excluding VAT
: RELEASE DATE: 20-Nov-2000
: COMPOSER: Joseph Haydn TITLE: Complete String Quartets
: ARTISTS: Angeles String Qt
The MDT VAT-Free price is much lower than that - though of course it might
prove overpriced at any price....
Here's another HIP disc I forgot and would recommend: L'Archibudelli's
opp. 77/103 - though I wouldn't recommend it ahead of the Mosaiques. How
tiresome that there should be so many good HIP op. 77s in print and
readily available but no recommendable HIP op. 64....
Talking of op. 64, the Orlando Qt recorded half of them (4-6) for Emergo;
these keep showing up in cut-out stores in the U.S. and, I dare say,
elsewhere (Berkshire too?). This disc is first rate; too bad they didn't
do the rest of op. 64 (or did they? if so, I've never seen it).
Platz seems to have vanished, but if ever you find a used copy of the
Musikverein's op. 76 3/4/5, I would recommend that.
Last (for now, anyway), one of my favorite traditional quartets, the
Petersen, have recorded op. 1 for Capriccio. Too bad they haven't
recorded some of the better ones. I might have hoped that they would
eventually do the rest; the release of their Seven Last Words on a
different label, Claves, suggests that they probably won't (or, if they
will, not for Capriccio) anyone know?
Which reminds me (I really will stop soon), I neglected to mention the
Seven Last Words qts. Mosaiques probably win here too, though the
Kuijken's sobriety works well here. The Festetics' on Quintana is now out
of print; it was rather different from what one might expect, relatively
quick - but still plagued by standard Quintana veiled sound; presumably
they will rerecord it too.
Simon
Rick Cavalla
>lord_e...@my-deja.com wrote:
>
>: Got this from crotchet.co.uk (via a brief unintentional detour through
>: crochet.co.uk...)
>
>
>: CATALOGUE NR. 4646502 from Philips on a 21CD Set
>: PRICE: £ 119.99 including VAT or £ 102.12 excluding VAT
>: RELEASE DATE: 20-Nov-2000
>: COMPOSER: Joseph Haydn TITLE: Complete String Quartets
>: ARTISTS: Angeles String Qt
>
>The MDT VAT-Free price is much lower than that - though of course it might
>prove overpriced at any price....
MDT's shipping to the USA will, I believe, be 0.75 * 21 = 15.75 UK#.
Crotchet treat box sets as one item, so you would only pay 2.00 UK# for
shipping. Might make a difference to those interested in this set.
Rick Cavalla
ra...@NO.erols.SPAM.com
==============
Currently listening to: (nothing)
==============
lord_e...@my-deja.com
si...@dept.english.upenn.edu (Simon Roberts) wrote:
>How tiresome that there should be so many good HIP op. 77s in print
>and readily available but no recommendable HIP op. 64....
Or a lot of Op. 50-55 either... I really like some of those quartets!
>Talking of op. 64, the Orlando Qt recorded half of them (4-6) for
Emergo;
>these keep showing up in cut-out stores in the U.S. and, I dare say,
>elsewhere (Berkshire too?). This disc is first rate; too bad they
didn't
>do the rest of op. 64 (or did they? if so, I've never seen it).
I've checked Berkshire but couldn't recognize any of the quartets'
names, so I did the only sensible thing and ignored them... I'll go
back and see if the Orlando was one of them.
>Which reminds me (I really will stop soon)
No need to stop on my account... Thanks!!
ESH Tooter
with their Op. 33. On the other hand, I really liked their Op. 77. On LP and
long gone there were good performances of Op. 54 and 55 by both the Dekany (on
Vox) and the Allegri (on Westminster). For Op. 64 I mostly go to the Tatrai,
but would love to find others. Tatrai's Op. 20 and 76 are their best sets (and
their first).
The Apponyi's Op. 33 is incredible!!!
Tooter
Alain Dagher
their live recordings on Denon, including the greatest Lark ever. I think
they are hard to find though.
Alain
Philip Peters
Alain Dagher wrote:
And while we're at it, I never heard a better *Quinten* than the Hungarians'.
I don't think the Hungarians' Haydn quartets were ever reissued, were they?
Philip
oppont
preferable to the Kodaly.
Bogdan Tudose
> I was very disappointed with the Mosaiques of Op. 76 and not overly pleased
> with their Op. 33
I have one of their Op. 33 discs; they sound like they had too much coffee
before the recording session.
Bogdan
wk...@my-deja.com
si...@dept.english.upenn.edu (Simon Roberts) wrote:
>It's not quite that simple (depending on what's in print). There is
>also a set of op. 33 by the Apponyi Qt on Ars Musici which gets my
>vote for best HIP (or, frankly, any other) recording of a Classical
>Period string quartet
And of course, it appears to be out of print. It's still listed on
Qualiton's website, but now that it's been two months since I ordered
it, I'm not optimistic.
>Hurwitz's extremely negative review of their op. 76 looks
>quite plausible, given my reaction to the rest of their recordings
>that I know.
While I've disliked what Lindsays I've heard before (mostly Beethoven),
I liked what I heard of the new 76/4-6. Nothing elegant about it, but
it's consistently interesting and exciting.
>Finally, the Kodaly Qt on Naxos. These often get fairly high praise (I
>think Penguin gives their op. 76 a rosette). To these ears they're no
>more than dull.
I picked up one of their Op. 50 CD's. Deadly.
Bill
--
William D. Kasimer
wk...@juno.com
Never argue with idiots. They bring you down to their level, and then
beat you with experience.
lord_e...@my-deja.com
wk...@my-deja.com wrote:
> In article <8v1eu5$ou1$1...@netnews.upenn.edu>,
> si...@dept.english.upenn.edu (Simon Roberts) wrote:
>
> >It's not quite that simple (depending on what's in print). There is
> >also a set of op. 33 by the Apponyi Qt on Ars Musici which gets my
> >vote for best HIP (or, frankly, any other) recording of a Classical
> >Period string quartet
>
> And of course, it appears to be out of print. It's still listed on
> Qualiton's website, but now that it's been two months since I ordered
> it, I'm not optimistic.
I just saw it at Alapage... I hope it's not another Mengelberg set
(i.e. listed but for all practical purposes not there).
Lena
ESH Tooter
TD
"Alain Dagher" <al...@bic.mni.mcgill.ca> wrote in message
news:3A1487A5...@bic.mni.mcgill.ca...
> I'd just like to add the Smetana quartet to Simon's list. I have some of
> their live recordings on Denon, including the greatest Lark ever. I think
> they are hard to find though.
I haven't heard that Lark, but does it really surpass the Riele Queling Qt
on Shinseido (another that's great but hard to find)?
ESH Tooter
Smetana Quartet didn't record much Haydn, but they recorded the "Lark" at least
twice. The earlier performance was made before violist, Milan Skampa, had
joined the group. The later performance was made for Denon in digital. it's
hardly fair to compare its crystal, audiophile clarity with the fifties era
Supraphon LP or the even earlier Riele Queling on 78s.
I should add, as much as I like the Smetana quartet, I've never been too
enthusiastic about their Haydn. Well, I'm not sure that the Riele Queling
stands out were as pantheon quality Haydn either. It is interesting, however,
to hear a Haydn Quartet from an era when few were recorded. Has it really been
reissued??? My copy is on casette from original 78s.
wk...@my-deja.com
wk...@my-deja.com wrote:
> >It's not quite that simple (depending on what's in print). There is
> >also a set of op. 33 by the Apponyi Qt on Ars Musici which gets my
> >vote for best HIP (or, frankly, any other) recording of a Classical
> >Period string quartet
>
> And of course, it appears to be out of print. It's still listed on
> Qualiton's website, but now that it's been two months since I ordered
> it, I'm not optimistic.
It showed up in my mailbox today, and it is indeed superlative. Thanks
to all who recommended it.