EMI's Great Recordings
frank.d...@dal.frb.org
Great Recordings of the Century series. The packaging reports
re-mastering done at Abbey Road Studios from the original masters and
"noise-shaped via the Prism SNS system for optimum sound quality." Hype
or a significant improvement over previous releases? Obviously, serious
collectors have many of these performances already and it would be nice
to get some idea of which, if any, are improved.
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Frank Berger
Atoddk
[snip]
>Obviously, serious
>collectors have many of these performances already and it would be nice
>to get some idea of which, if any, are improved.
Yes; I'd be particularly interested in the comments of anyone who has heard the
new Klemperer/et al German Requiem.
Todd K
samir ghiocel golescu
On Mon, 18 Jan 1999 wk...@juno.com wrote:
> I don't know about the others, but I picked up the Ludwig/Wunderlich/Klempere
> DAS LIED VON DER ERDE, and despite the new remastering it sounds identical to
> the first CD issue.
Are you sure there are the same singers? (-:
Regards,
S.G.
wk...@juno.com
frank.d...@dal.frb.org wrote:
> Wondering whether anyone can comment on the sound quality of EMI's new
> Great Recordings of the Century series. The packaging reports
> re-mastering done at Abbey Road Studios from the original masters and
> "noise-shaped via the Prism SNS system for optimum sound quality." Hype
> or a significant improvement over previous releases? Obviously, serious
> collectors have many of these performances already and it would be nice
> to get some idea of which, if any, are improved.
I don't know about the others, but I picked up the Ludwig/Wunderlich/Klempere
DAS LIED VON DER ERDE, and despite the new remastering it sounds identical to
the first CD issue.
Bill
William D. Kasimer
wk...@juno.com
Marc Perman
>Wondering whether anyone can comment on the sound quality of EMI's new
>Great Recordings of the Century series. The packaging reports
>re-mastering done at Abbey Road Studios from the original masters and
>"noise-shaped via the Prism SNS system for optimum sound quality." Hype
>or a significant improvement over previous releases? Obviously, serious
>collectors have many of these performances already and it would be nice
>to get some idea of which, if any, are improved.
Klemperer's German Requiem and Das Lied, as well as Barbirolli's
Mahler 5, are virtually indistinquishable from earlier CD transfers.
Upon listening very, very closely with another colleague on this
group, we noticed a barely perceptable noise reduction on the new
issues that perhaps wasn't there before.
Save your money.
Marc Perman
Enigma NimrodŠ
|re-mastering done at Abbey Road Studios from the original
masters and
|"noise-shaped via the Prism SNS system for optimum sound
quality." Hype
|or a significant improvement over previous releases?
Obviously, serious
|collectors have many of these performances already and it
would be nice
|to get some idea of which, if any, are improved.
Months before, I wrote here a message that there is problem
when the "EMI art" remastering to be used on DDD recordings,
but there are people here who expressed I was wrong. They
emphasized that the new remastering has its own improvement
instead. Even though they have written their words, but I
still think I am right!!!
For my comment, the "EMI art" on analog recordings has shown
its merit, the tape noise is suppressed smartly and
naturally; but on DDD, the sound will be strange. The good
example is the disc containing the Quintet of Schubert.
Regards,
Enigma NimrodŠ
http://mehp.findhere.com
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Sacqueboutier
>
> Frank D. Berger wrote:
>
> [snip]
> >collectors have many of these performances already and it would be nice
> >to get some idea of which, if any, are improved.
>
> new Klemperer/et al German Requiem.
>
> Todd K
It's a classic.
--
Don Patterson
* DCP Music Printing
* Professional Computer Music Typeset
* Music Arrangements
* don...@erols.com
* Asst. Principal Trombonist
* "The President's Own"
* United States Marine Band
http://www.marineband.hqmc.usmc.mil
The views expressed are my own and in no way
reflect those of "The President's Own" United
States Marine Band or the United States Marine Corps.
Simon Roberts
: Klemperer's German Requiem and Das Lied, as well as Barbirolli's
: Mahler 5, are virtually indistinquishable from earlier CD transfers.
: Upon listening very, very closely with another colleague on this
: group, we noticed a barely perceptable noise reduction on the new
: issues that perhaps wasn't there before.
I'm not at all surprised; the last time they remastered that Requiem (only
about a year ago) that sounded virtually identical to the first CD issue;
only once have I noticed a significant improvement on an EMI remastering,
and that was Klemperer's Fidelio. By the way, does anyone like the look
of EMI's new series? A trivial point, perhaps, but I find them quite
ugly and suspect they won't encourage sales.
Simon
John Wilson
<gol...@students.uiuc.edu> wrote:
>
>
>On Mon, 18 Jan 1999 wk...@juno.com wrote:
>
>> I don't know about the others, but I picked up the Ludwig/Wunderlich/Klempere
>> DAS LIED VON DER ERDE, and despite the new remastering it sounds identical to
>> the first CD issue.
>
>Are you sure there are the same singers? (-:
>
yes, they are the same singer that performed on the original LP
release. Wunderlich has not recorded anything for some time since he
has been dead for 30 years or so.
John
Frank Berger
I must say the arguments brought to bear against your point of view seem
quite compelling. I see you have back-tracked from your sweeping
condemnation of ART and now restrict it to DD recordings. Yet the other
posters point out that the poor quality of the original recording of the
Schubert quintet is probably responsible. Are there any other DDD
recordings remastered with ART? What about them?
>
Marc Perman
I like the use of the original cover art, but I wish EMI had used the
entire booklet cover for the originals instead of the slightly tacky
"gift-packaging" look. The DG's Originals' design, reproducing the
original covers at an angle, is much more clever.
Common to both of these reissue series, however, is the rather
fraudulent implication of improved sound over earlier CD incarnations.
Marc Perman
Nicolas Hodges
<si...@dept.english.upenn.edu> writes
>Marc Perman (per...@mindspring.com) wrote:
>
>: Klemperer's German Requiem and Das Lied, as well as Barbirolli's
>: Mahler 5, are virtually indistinquishable from earlier CD transfers.
>: Upon listening very, very closely with another colleague on this
>: group, we noticed a barely perceptable noise reduction on the new
>: issues that perhaps wasn't there before.
>
>I'm not at all surprised; the last time they remastered that Requiem (only
>about a year ago) that sounded virtually identical to the first CD issue;
>only once have I noticed a significant improvement on an EMI remastering,
>and that was Klemperer's Fidelio.
Which is the remastered issue of Fidelio? I have CMS 769 324 2, dated
1989. Has there been an improvement since then?
>By the way, does anyone like the look
>of EMI's new series? A trivial point, perhaps, but I find them quite
>ugly and suspect they won't encourage sales.
I think you're probably right, especially compared to, say, the BBC
series.
--
Nic
Richard L
>of EMI's new series? A trivial point, perhaps, but I find them quite
>ugly and suspect they won't encourage sales.
'Nipper' back, both on the cover and on the 'label'. The design of the
label itself is as elegant as those of the old HMV LPs - even better
perhaps: there is clearly readable white text on the jet-black
background that surrounds the central figure of Nipper. The label
designs of Decca and DG (and most other companies for that matter) are
invariably utterly undistinguished by comparison.
I have the Klemperer 'Das Lied von der Erde' disc and consider it to be
an astonishing improvement over the earlier incarnation. The totally
silent background (without any sense of no-noise doctoring) and an
almost palpable orchestral and vocal presence do great credit to the
responsible EMI engineers.
One of the big bug-bears of the CD age has been the near-illegibility of
much of the printed matter. All EMI need to do now is emulate the
wonderful design quality of the very legible SONY Heritage series
booklets and they will have redeemed themselves in my book.
-------
Richard Landau (London, UK)
Ric...@atelier48.demon.co.uk
Neil
>
>Yes; I'd be particularly interested in the comments of anyone who has heard the
>new Klemperer/et al German Requiem.
I got it the other day. The sound seems very clear, rich with good separation
between the choir and the orchestra. One thing I've never heard before came
through on this recording - the philharmonia basses (strings not singers) -
there's a rich warm pedal line. I only had the LP set previously but the sound
did make a distinct impression. (I have loads of Klemp/EMI recordings BTW).
Am I alone in finding this a very gloomy requiem ? Has anyone cheered it up more
?
Neil
------------------------------------------------------------
Neil (at home) |http://www.thump.org
ICQ# - 11875525 |AOL IM - "imheifetz"
Simon Roberts
: Which is the remastered issue of Fidelio? I have CMS 769 324 2, dated
: 1989. Has there been an improvement since then?
For 5 55170 2, done in 1994, they managed to find the high frequency
information the removed/lost in the earlier one; it's not a huge
difference, I suppose, but enough to make the performance seem more
incisive, which is important for me at least.
Simon
Matthew B. Tepper
>
> One of the big bug-bears of the CD age has been the near-illegibility
> of much of the printed matter. All EMI need to do now is emulate the
> wonderful design quality of the very legible SONY Heritage series
> booklets and they will have redeemed themselves in my book.
You mean with the weird fonts on oddly-designed pages in various
colors? And *with* a libretto for such rarities as Puccini's _La
Boheme_, but *without* texts for stuff that everybody already has, such
as Brazilian folksongs sung by Bidu Sayao.... ;--)
--
Matthew B. Tepper: WWW, science fiction, classical music, ducks!
My personal home page -- http://www.deltanet.com/~ducky/index.htm
My main music page --- http://www.deltanet.com/~ducky/berlioz.htm
And my science fiction club's home page --- http://www.lasfs.org/
To write to me, do for my address what Androcles did for the lion
Peter
how different the "re-remastered" CD recording of "Don Giovanni"
conducted by Giulini is over its first CD release?
I would be most grateful for comments from those who have compared these
two releases.
Dick Smith
wk...@juno.com (you) wrote:
] In article <77tdlu$vus$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>,
] frank.d...@dal.frb.org wrote:
]
] > Wondering whether anyone can comment on the sound quality of EMI's new
] > Great Recordings of the Century series. The packaging reports
] > re-mastering done at Abbey Road Studios from the original masters and
] > "noise-shaped via the Prism SNS system for optimum sound quality." Hype
] > or a significant improvement over previous releases? Obviously, serious
] > collectors have many of these performances already and it would be nice
] > to get some idea of which, if any, are improved.
]
] I don't know about the others, but I picked up the Ludwig/Wunderlich/Klempere
] DAS LIED VON DER ERDE, and despite the new remastering it sounds identical to
] the first CD issue.
That's interesting; I picked this CD up on Friday and compared to the
original EMI Angel series LP (which I still have in mint condition) the
improvement in sound quality is enormous---I can't stop playing it, but then
I adore Christa Ludwig's singing.
I've not heard previous CD issues, but this new one does differ in one
respect; price. It's now at mid-price, whereas I'm sure I saw it on CD at
full price some years ago, and left it on the shelf...
Regards,
Dick
--
=============================================================================
Dick Smith di...@risctex.demon.co.uk
Acorn Risc PC http://www.risctex.demon.co.uk
=============================================================================
paulb
Marc Perman wrote:
> Richard L <Ric...@atelier48.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> {snip}
> >
> >I have the Klemperer 'Das Lied von der Erde' disc and consider it to be
> >an astonishing improvement over the earlier incarnation. The totally
> >silent background (without any sense of no-noise doctoring) and an
> >almost palpable orchestral and vocal presence do great credit to the
> >responsible EMI engineers.
> >
> Interesting - my impression, far from "an astonishing improvement," is
> that the new Das Lied is virtually identical to the last CD version,
> perhaps de-noised a little.
>
I purchased the “Great Recordings” issue of the Strauss songs sung by
Schwarzkopf w/Szell conducting to replace a copy of EMI CDC 7472762 that got
caught closing in the CD drawer several years ago and caused a loud clicking
sound to emit from the speakers when playing the last three tracks.
Focusing primarily on the “Four Last Songs”, the first three songs sound
somewhat clearer on headphones than on the earlier CD issue. The tape hiss
is still present though marginally not quite as prominent. On speakers,
Schwarzkopf’s voice is noticeably more specifically placed in the stereo
layout though it is difficult on A/B comparisons to tell if it is because
all strands of the music are clarified or if her voice has been brought
forward in the mix; but her voice level does not sound louder. The
surprise for me, after an initial… wow,…this is a bit of an improvement, was
in the fourth song, Im Abendrot. It, in my opinion, sounds more musical in
the above referenced earlier CD release. I hadn’t noticed it in the first
three songs, and still don’t, but the instrumental introduction just sounds
more natural. And so it goes throughout the rest of the disk. Some songs
will sound marginally better on one disk than the other, the new release
because they “seem” cleaner and delineate the background instrumentation
clearer, the older release because it is a more natural sound. Perhaps it
is because the earlier release is AAD. The differences are EXTREMELY small,
and for most listeners, myself included as I am not usually as analytical
when listening on speakers, inconsequential. I went through the trouble of
detailed and headphone comparisons because I thought I would also like to
replace the Villa-Lobos CD which I noticed was also issued in this series as
I’ve never been thrilled with the sound on that disc. Based upon the
evidence of this release I wouldn’t replace it, nor would I advise anyone to
replace the earlier version of the Strauss Songs release. But I would
recommend the purchase if you don’t have the recording. They basically
sound the same, neither sounds “bad”.
More surprising than any difference between the current release and earlier
incarnations is what EMI considers its Great Recordings. The CD booklet
lists their first 25 releases of Great Recordings of the Century which in
some cases, the Perlman/Giulini Beethoven Violin Concerto for one, I don’t
consider the greatest; but wouldn’t argue someone else who did. But some
selections are mysterious to me. The Mozart Clarinet Concerto with Sabine
Meyer and the Dresden Staatskapelle conducted by Hans Vonk??? Doesn’t EMI
own the Jack Brymer/Beecham version? The Meyer/Vonk version is better??
And, how about Samson Francois in the Ravel Piano Concerto? Doesn’t EMI own
the Michelangeli performance? Weird. I wonder who made these decisions,
and why?
> Marc Perman
Marc Perman
{snip}
>
>I have the Klemperer 'Das Lied von der Erde' disc and consider it to be
>an astonishing improvement over the earlier incarnation. The totally
>silent background (without any sense of no-noise doctoring) and an
>almost palpable orchestral and vocal presence do great credit to the
>responsible EMI engineers.
>
Interesting - my impression, far from "an astonishing improvement," is
that the new Das Lied is virtually identical to the last CD version,
perhaps de-noised a little.
Marc Perman
Len Mullenger
http://www.musicweb.force9.co.uk/groc/groc1.html knowing they would be
unavailable in the States for some time. There are some reviews on this site
to. Whatever may be said about the improvement in sound quality the major
factor here is that they were at mid-price and for many of these recordings
they had only previously been available at full price.
Are EMI releasing the full set in the States? Is it competitive to buy them
from my site through Crotchet or should I now try to link through Amazon or
CD now?
Could you please reply privately as well as to the newsgroup.
Regards
Len Mullenger
http://come.to/musicweb http://surf.to/FilmMusic
Simon Roberts
: Since we're talking about new incarnations of EMI CD releases, I wonder
: how different the "re-remastered" CD recording of "Don Giovanni"
: conducted by Giulini is over its first CD release?
I was disappointed by it, as I have been by most of the EMI remasterings.
Some tracks sound identical to the first mastering, while others sound
very sightly different -- sometimes a matter of stereo imaging, sometimes
tonally. I did my comparisons through headphones only and doubt whether
these differences would be more noticeable through speakers. I also only
compared the first disc of each, assuming -- perhaps wrongly -- that the
others would sound similar. I would spend the money on something else
(and wish I had).
Simon
wk...@juno.com
di...@risctex.demon.co.uk (Dick Smith) wrote:
> ] I don't know about the others, but I picked up the
> ] Ludwig/Wunderlich/Klempere
> ] DAS LIED VON DER ERDE, and despite the new remastering it sounds identical
> ] to the first CD issue.
>
> That's interesting; I picked this CD up on Friday and compared to the
> original EMI Angel series LP (which I still have in mint condition) the
> improvement in sound quality is enormous---
Not surprising at all; the first CD issue was also a vast improvement on any
of the LP issues.
> I've not heard previous CD issues, but this new one does differ in one
> respect; price. It's now at mid-price, whereas I'm sure I saw it on CD at
> full price some years ago, and left it on the shelf...
I didn't, so I've been able to play it for the past decade or so, dozens of
times. That was certainly worth the extra three bucks.
Bill
William D. Kasimer
wk...@juno.com
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
wk...@juno.com
si...@dept.english.upenn.edu (Simon Roberts) wrote:
> By the way, does anyone like the look
> of EMI's new series? A trivial point, perhaps, but I find them quite
> ugly
I agree. If they want to use the original cover art, then use the original
cover art (as EMI does with the FDS series), instead of including it as a
small box covering less than one-quarter of the cover.
pga...@my-dejanews.com
> That's interesting; I picked this CD [Klemperer conducting "Das Lied von der
Erde"] up on Friday and compared to the
> original EMI Angel series LP (which I still have in mint condition) the
> improvement in sound quality is enormous---I can't stop playing it, but then
> I adore Christa Ludwig's singing.
>
> I've not heard previous CD issues, but this new one does differ in one
> respect; price. It's now at mid-price, whereas I'm sure I saw it on CD at
> full price some years ago, and left it on the shelf...
>
> Regards,
>
> Dick
Forgetting about questionable claims of improved sonics, one of the most
welcome features of the EMI "Great Recordings" series is that several of the
CDs -- e.g., Klemperer's DLVDE and "German Requiem" performances, and the
Schwartzkopf/Szell Strauss vocal recital -- are now being offered for the
first time as mid-priced CDs (at least in the U.S.).
Phil
>
> --
> =============================================================================
> Dick Smith di...@risctex.demon.co.uk
> Acorn Risc PC http://www.risctex.demon.co.uk
> =============================================================================
>
>
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
Enigma NimrodŠ
|posters point out that the poor quality of the original
recording of the
|Schubert quintet is probably responsible.
I must say that the Alban Berg Quartett recording sessions
in early 80's, including Schubert Quintet and LvB late
quartet are not in satisfy audiophile standard nowadays. But
in my standard, as music enjoyment, they are "acceptable".
My point is putting "EMI ART" on those early digital
recording makes "acceptable" to be "unacceptable". This
process makes the sound just like the worst early Dolby
Cassette tape, especially the "unnaturally surface
silence"....
It is not the question about the session tapes are good or
bad, but EMI art is not quite suitable for digital recording
I feel.
Frank Berger
SOUNDED BETTER (I feel I must shout here, sorry) so that those of us who already
own them on CD should "upgrade."
Frank Berger
Takashi Kikuchi
:
: I've not heard previous CD issues, but this new one does differ in one
: respect; price. It's now at mid-price, whereas I'm sure I saw it on CD at
: full price some years ago, and left it on the shelf...
That means another trip to Tower Clearence should be planned for me! :-)
(I saw a few of the first CD version C. Kleiber DG Brahms 4, in addition
to many with same fate -- pushed by supposedly "newly" remastered copies).
Takashi M. Kikuchi
Tony Movshon
My impression also (but not altogether independent of Marc's, since we
listened to them together). The additional denoising, if such it is,
also seems to take just a hair off the highs, so perhaps the old one
sounds a little brighter than the new. But any differences are close
to inaudible.
Tony Movshon mov...@nyu.edu
Center for Neural Science New York University
Serge Fourcade
:
>And, how about Samson Francois in the Ravel Piano Concerto? Doesn’t EMI own
>the Michelangeli performance?
What do you exactly reproach to the Ravel's Piano Concerti by Samson
François ?
For me, his version is one of the best ever (maybe even THE best ever
for the concerto for the left hand) .
Samson François is an excellent pianist, IMO comparable to
Michelangeli .
A+
Serge Fourcade
E-Mail : Serge.F...@wanadoo.fr
ICQ UIN : 22114954
MT
<<What do you exactly reproach to the Ravel's Piano Concerti by Samson
François ? For me, his version is one of the best ever (maybe even THE
best ever for the concerto for the left hand). Samson François is an
excellent pianist, IMO comparable to Michelangeli .>>
Serge: François, like Duchable, Planés, and other superb French
pianists, is not very well known in the United States - a sad case of
neglect. I have quite a few of his recordings on LP (fewer on CD, since
most have not been released here), and he is always very good. As to
comparing François to Michelangeli, the only thing that occurs to me is
that Samson is a warm pianist, not a perfectly jewelled refrigerator
like the late Arturo (jokes aside, Arturo did play Ravel brilliantly).
Regards,
mt
Enigma NimrodŠ
<36A4B4B6...@dal.frb.org>...
|I know, that's what you keep saying, but no one seems to
agree with you!
There are people who yelling "I don't agree!" but they
haven't got the Digital EMI art disc, have you gotten one?
Regards,
Enigma NimrodŠ
http://mehp.findhere.com
Site Under Construction
[End of Message]
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Frank Berger
evidence one way or the other.
Florestan
Simon Roberts <si...@dept.english.upenn.edu> wrote in article
(only
> about a year ago) that sounded virtually identical to the first CD issue;
> only once have I noticed a significant improvement on an EMI remastering,
> of EMI's new series? A trivial point, perhaps, but I find them quite
>
>
I agree with you, Simon. It seems as if EMI was desperately trying to cash
in on the same formula that worked wonders (commercially if not critically)
for DG and their "Originals" series. Unlike DG, most of the EMI releases
have been touched-up and released on CD multiple times already.
Furthermore, whereas DG dedicates more than 50% of the CD cover to
reproducing of the appropriate LP cover, EMI has relegated these covers to
a mere postage stamp sized icon. What's worse, they have made the
"spindle" rack that holds the CD out of that cheap, yet, trendy transparent
plastic which inevitably breaks during shipping (of the 3 I ordered, 2 were
broken). I would not advise anyone already in possession of an earlier
release of any one of these titles to bother investing in this new, and
sadly disappointing, incarnation.
Rick Fethers
the "adders"...the fringe works that are/become awesome in one's repertoire.
Am at the point many times, as we all are, of reviewing the symphonic works
of Mozart, Mahler, Beethoven, Bruckner, Brahms, Shostakovich, Peter T.,
Sibelius, etc.
Send me your thoughts of the rare gems...Ive's 4th is hardly recorded, Raff's
5th, etc. The Schwann catalog surprises many times in that a work you admire
is available only 2-3 ways...if that.
Regards, Rick
Thomas Deas
>and that was Klemperer's Fidelio.<
the Casals Bach cello suites were markedly improved. I found the 1988/9(?)
hard to listen to.
Donald Rice
more resonance? etc.
I have the vinyl versions that appeared on the "Great Recordings of The
Century" as well as the cd version that appeared in 1988.
Thanks.
Don
John L. Holubiak
>
>>
>> the Casals Bach cello suites were markedly improved. I found the
1988/9(?)
>> hard to listen to.
>
I was also disappointed by the first CD issue of Casals' Bach. The discs
credited the transfers to Keith Hardwick, but it would not surprise me if
these were actually derived from the same tapes that Angel used for the LP
issue of the mid 70s. I haven't heard the newest release, but your words are
encouraging.
John
Donald Rice
vinyls. I also found it disappointing and would love to hear a transfer from the
original 78s done by one of the contemporary wizards of transferring like Seth
Winner or TransfrGuy.
Don