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Handel Messiah?

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Kirk McElhearn

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Dec 6, 2006, 3:52:54 AM12/6/06
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Curiously, I only have two recordings of the Messiah, neither of which
really grab me. (Minkowski and someone else.) I have no history of
hearing this every holiday season, as many people in the UK do, so have
never really considered it special.

Any recommendations for a good one? How is Gardiner - it seems
interesting that instead of trying to fill Wembley, he uses a small
ensemble and choir...

Thanks,

Kirk
--
Read my blog, Kirkville
http://www.mcelhearn.com

Handel8

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Dec 6, 2006, 5:40:33 AM12/6/06
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Kirk McElhearn wrote:
> Curiously, I only have two recordings of the Messiah, neither of which
> really grab me. (Minkowski and someone else.) I have no history of
> hearing this every holiday season, as many people in the UK do, so have
> never really considered it special.
>
> Any recommendations for a good one? How is Gardiner - it seems
> interesting that instead of trying to fill Wembley, he uses a small
> ensemble and choir...
>
> Thanks,
>
> Kirk
>

I think this has been covered but it is funny you should ask as there
have been three new Messiah recordings this fall that are interesting.

I like the old Colin Davis recording that dates from the 1960s. He
presses a little at times, but it still has a lot of power for me. The
sequence of arias and choruses leading up to the Hallejuyah (sic)
chorus, which is side 5 in the LP set, is the one of the best I have
heard. It has a weak or at best just OK Amen chorus, but this is a
problem with other recordings as well.
I also like the Martin Perlman recording on Arabesque a great deal.
It is a live recording in Boston Symphony Hall of the Mozart
arrangement but sung in English. The soloists are all great IMO. Of
the new ones out:
I have heard the Higgenbottom on Naxos and the Rene Jacobs on Harmonia
Mundi. The Higgenbottom is good. Soloists are used from the chorus
for the soprano arias. A boy soprano sings the famous aria "I know
that my Redeemer liveth", for instance. Even better I thought is the
Jacobs recording. This has the most satisfying set of (5) soloists I
have heard in this work since the Perlman recording mentioned above.
Some of the arias are just outstandingly great IMO. The choir is also
very good. I like all the tempi that Jacobs chooses as well. You may
find the organ parts a bit much. Jacobs added these in, I believe.
The new Butt recording on Linn Records of the 1742 Dublin version
just got a rave review in Gramophone. I just got a copy and will be
listening to it today or tomorrow. He did not like the Jacobs so
much.I am sure you will get few other recomendations. There are many
good ones. They vary so much one to the other. There are a lot of
moving parts to get just right to make this work come off.

Alan Prichard

Richard Loeb

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Dec 6, 2006, 5:53:21 AM12/6/06
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"Handel8" <ala...@nycap.rr.com> wrote in message
news:1165401633.4...@16g2000cwy.googlegroups.com...

The Jacobs is my favorite among the HIP - great conducting and Scholl is
fabulous - among the non-HIP I agree with the Davis but be sure to get the
latest European remastering which has far better sound than the current one
available in the States Richard


Handel8

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Dec 6, 2006, 6:03:35 AM12/6/06
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Richard Loeb wrote:
> "Handel8" <ala...@nycap.rr.com> wrote in message
>

You refer to the 96k 24 bit blah blah blah remastered version in the
Philips series of 50 great recordings or whatever it was called, don't
you ? That is the best version I have. It may be a little hard to,
get nowadays.

Alan Prichard

Handel8

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Dec 6, 2006, 6:13:51 AM12/6/06
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Scholl isn't in the Jacobs Messiah. See here:
http://www.arkivmusic.com/classical/album.jsp?album_id=142139

You must be thinking of another Handel recording by Jacobs.

Alan Prichard

Richard Loeb

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Dec 6, 2006, 6:59:37 AM12/6/06
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>> The Jacobs is my favorite among the HIP - great conducting and Scholl is
>> fabulous - among the non-HIP I agree with the Davis but be sure to get
>> the
>> latest European remastering which has far better sound than the current
>> one
>> available in the States Richard
>
> You refer to the 96k 24 bit blah blah blah remastered version in the
> Philips series of 50 great recordings or whatever it was called, don't
> you ? That is the best version I have. It may be a little hard to,
> get nowadays.
>
> Alan Prichard

>Yes thats the one Richard


Richard Loeb

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Dec 6, 2006, 7:00:58 AM12/6/06
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"Handel8" <ala...@nycap.rr.com> wrote in message
news:1165403631.6...@j44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
You're right I was thinking of the Jacobs Christmas Oratorio - its the
Christie Messiah with Scholl that I really like Richard


William Sommerwerck

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Dec 6, 2006, 7:01:07 AM12/6/06
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> Any recommendations for a good one? How is Gardiner - it seems
> interesting that instead of trying to fill Wembley, he uses a small
> ensemble and choir...

Wonderful, my current favorite. And for once, the "Hallelujah Chorus" is not
the climax, because he doesn't overdo it.


William Sommerwerck

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Dec 6, 2006, 7:02:14 AM12/6/06
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There's a new René Jacobs recording, which I'd expect to be at least
"different". Bought it the other day; haven't heard it yet.


Kirk McElhearn

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Dec 6, 2006, 8:17:52 AM12/6/06
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On 2006-12-06 11:40:33 +0100, "Handel8" <ala...@nycap.rr.com> said:

> I think this has been covered but it is funny you should ask as there
> have been three new Messiah recordings this fall that are interesting.

That's part of why I asked - I saw the stuff in Gramophone about new
recordings (and different versions, just to confuse us consumers...)


>
> Of
> the new ones out:
> I have heard the Higgenbottom on Naxos and the Rene Jacobs on Harmonia
> Mundi. The Higgenbottom is good. Soloists are used from the chorus
> for the soprano arias. A boy soprano sings the famous aria "I know
> that my Redeemer liveth", for instance. Even better I thought is the
> Jacobs recording. This has the most satisfying set of (5) soloists I
> have heard in this work since the Perlman recording mentioned above.
> Some of the arias are just outstandingly great IMO. The choir is also
> very good. I like all the tempi that Jacobs chooses as well. You may
> find the organ parts a bit much. Jacobs added these in, I believe.
> The new Butt recording on Linn Records of the 1742 Dublin version
> just got a rave review in Gramophone. I just got a copy and will be
> listening to it today or tomorrow. He did not like the Jacobs so
> much.I am sure you will get few other recomendations. There are many
> good ones. They vary so much one to the other. There are a lot of
> moving parts to get just right to make this work come off.

Right, those three are, if I understand, three different versions. (I'm
sure there's not a lot of difference...) I also note that Naxos is no
longer a budget-price label, at least in dollars...

Kirk McElhearn

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Dec 6, 2006, 8:18:29 AM12/6/06
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On 2006-12-06 11:53:21 +0100, "Richard Loeb" <loe...@comcast.net> said:

> The Jacobs is my favorite among the HIP - great conducting and Scholl
> is fabulous

Yes, I'm a fan of Scholl. Is it a "big" recording, or less imposing
than the average Messiah?

Kirk McElhearn

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Dec 6, 2006, 8:21:22 AM12/6/06
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On 2006-12-06 13:00:58 +0100, "Richard Loeb" <loe...@comcast.net> said:

> You're right I was thinking of the Jacobs Christmas Oratorio - its the
> Christie Messiah with Scholl that I really like Richard

A nice cast in that one. However, both that and the Jacobs are pretty
expensive... Rats.

Sacqueboutier

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Dec 6, 2006, 8:22:27 AM12/6/06
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On 2006-12-06 03:52:54 -0500, Kirk McElhearn <kir...@gmail.com> said:

> Curiously, I only have two recordings of the Messiah, neither of which
> really grab me. (Minkowski and someone else.) I have no history of
> hearing this every holiday season, as many people in the UK do, so have
> never really considered it special.
>
> Any recommendations for a good one? How is Gardiner - it seems
> interesting that instead of trying to fill Wembley, he uses a small
> ensemble and choir...
>
> Thanks,
>
> Kirk

Gardiner is fine, but I much prefer Hogwood for the purity of
his approach and the beautiful sound of his chorus.

As much as I love the bombast of the classic Beecham set,
I always turn to Hogwood to bring me back to Baroque.

--
I'd give my right arm to be ambidextrous.

Richard Loeb

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Dec 6, 2006, 8:30:56 AM12/6/06
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cam"Kirk McElhearn" <kir...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:4576c3d2$0$5086$ba4a...@news.orange.fr...
>When the Christie first appeard, it was in slim line package and cost me
>about 15.00 Richard


jwthomas

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Dec 6, 2006, 9:35:56 AM12/6/06
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Yes, the Colin Davis is the one to get if you prefer a non-HIP
performance; Perlman and Christie (in that order) are my favorites
among HIP versions. McCreesh is also worth a listen. But this is the
first I've heard of the Rene Jacobs release; considering his excellent
track record I'll definitely want to hear that one, too.


-John Thomas

Andrew Rose

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Dec 6, 2006, 9:46:12 AM12/6/06
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Kirk McElhearn wrote:
> Curiously, I only have two recordings of the Messiah, neither of which
> really grab me. (Minkowski and someone else.) I have no history of
> hearing this every holiday season, as many people in the UK do, so have
> never really considered it special.
>
> Any recommendations for a good one? How is Gardiner - it seems
> interesting that instead of trying to fill Wembley, he uses a small
> ensemble and choir...
>

Funny you should ask this today, Kirk - I've been preparing Rilling's
1997 Hänssler recording today, together with other suitably
festive/religious recordings by Rilling, for download release within the
next couple of days. Samples online, though I can't say I've heard
enough of it to rate it against anyone else yet.

Performers: Oregon Bach Festival Orchestra & Choir
Soloists: Sibylla Rubens, Ingeborg Danz, James Taylor, Thomas Quasthoff


FWIW the other two releases will be Liszt's Christus (triple-CD) and
chorales by Martin Luther set by Bach and others (double-CD) and
released under the title "Gelobet seist du Jesus Christ".

--
Andrew Rose - Pristine Classical

The online home of Classical Music: www.pristineclassical.com

Handel8

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Dec 6, 2006, 10:03:16 AM12/6/06
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John,
Please be aware that there are two Perlman recordings. The one on
Telarc is the one you probably refer to. It is good, but not as good
as the one on Arabesque. )The soprano is the weak link there as I
recall.) Try and get it and compare. I think you may find the overall
pacing and singing better. Yes, it is Mozart in English, but .. You
will need to turn it up a bit as well to get the effect. I was very
impressed that it was all done live too and done in the great BSO Hall.
As I listened to it, I kept thinking: now if he had only done the
standard version this well in HIP and in English, it would have been
perfect !

Alan Prichard

Matthew B. Tepper

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Dec 6, 2006, 10:40:53 AM12/6/06
to
Somewhere in a box in the second bedroom, I have the cassettes of the John
Tobin-conducted recording, which were the ONLY way this was released in the
US if I remember correctly. When I find those, IT'S TRANSFERRIN' TIME!

--
Matthew B. Tepper: WWW, science fiction, classical music, ducks!
My personal home page -- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/index.html
My main music page --- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/berlioz.html
To write to me, do for my address what Androcles did for the lion
Harrington/Coy is a gay wrestler who won't come out of the closet

Ralph

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Dec 6, 2006, 11:04:15 AM12/6/06
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Kirk McElhearn wrote:
> Curiously, I only have two recordings of the Messiah, neither of which
> really grab me. (Minkowski and someone else.) I have no history of
> hearing this every holiday season, as many people in the UK do, so have
> never really considered it special.
>
> Any recommendations for a good one? How is Gardiner - it seems
> interesting that instead of trying to fill Wembley, he uses a small
> ensemble and choir...
>

In the Messiah, I did not feel that Gardiner was in top form. I enjoy
Pinnock and Pearlman in that order. I am not favorably disposed to
non-HIP Messiahs at this point, so if you want to get in that direction,
I will yield to other posters here for their preferences.

Ralph

Handel8

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Dec 6, 2006, 12:50:28 PM12/6/06
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This was oput on 4 LPs but only from England at the time. This is how I
first got a copy. This was some 20 years or more ago. I later got a
copy on cassette for some reason as I recall. I don't know why this
has not been issued on cd. Wasn't Roberts one of the soloists ? My
copies are not handy at the moment. The ornaments are just crazy
batshit way out there ! But a lot of fun !!

Alan Prichard

jwthomas

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Dec 6, 2006, 12:59:10 PM12/6/06
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Handel8 wrote:

> John,
> Please be aware that there are two Pearlman recordings. The one on


> Telarc is the one you probably refer to. It is good, but not as good
> as the one on Arabesque. )The soprano is the weak link there as I
> recall.) Try and get it and compare.


Thanks for the recommendation; I was thinking the Arabesque recording
was a reissue of the Telarc.


-John Thomas

Keith Baird

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Dec 6, 2006, 12:56:32 PM12/6/06
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Kirk McElhearn <kir...@gmail.com> wrote:
> That's part of why I asked - I saw the stuff in Gramophone about new
> recordings...

Then you'll have noticed they discuss the newer recordings as
descendants of the pioneering Hogwood 1980 perf, which is the one to get.

--/<eith

Matthew B. Tepper

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Dec 6, 2006, 3:47:19 PM12/6/06
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"Handel8" <ala...@nycap.rr.com> appears to have caused the following
letters to be typed in
news:1165427428.1...@f1g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:

> Matthew B. Tepper wrote:
>> Somewhere in a box in the second bedroom, I have the cassettes of the
>> John Tobin-conducted recording, which were the ONLY way this was
>> released in the US if I remember correctly. When I find those, IT'S
>> TRANSFERRIN' TIME!
>

> This was oput on 4 LPs but only from England at the time. This is how I
> first got a copy. This was some 20 years or more ago. I later got a
> copy on cassette for some reason as I recall. I don't know why this
> has not been issued on cd. Wasn't Roberts one of the soloists ? My
> copies are not handy at the moment. The ornaments are just crazy
> batshit way out there ! But a lot of fun !!

Yes, a CD transfer of this quirky but powerful (and most of all, fun!)
performance is urgently needed. I suspect the rights are in a bit of a
mess, which happens from time to time.

wkas...@comcast.net

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Dec 6, 2006, 4:33:58 PM12/6/06
to

Richard Loeb wrote:

> >When the Christie first appeard, it was in slim line package and cost me
> >about 15.00 Richard

I bought it then. It looked great on paper, but I found it dull as
dishwater. The new Jacobs is vastly more interesting.

Bill

Sacqueboutier

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Dec 6, 2006, 5:22:39 PM12/6/06
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On 2006-12-06 10:40:53 -0500, "Matthew B. Tepper" <oy兀earthlink.net> said:

> Somewhere in a box in the second bedroom, I have the cassettes of the
> John Tobin-conducted recording, which were the ONLY way this was
> released in the US if I remember correctly. When I find those, IT'S
> TRANSFERRIN' TIME!

...AAAAAAND, lossless posting time.

Handel8

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Dec 6, 2006, 5:35:23 PM12/6/06
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MY BAD:

There IS NO second Messiah with Pearlman. The recording on Arabesque
that I was thinking of is a second recording of Messiah by Andrew
Parrott. It is still available and is listed here:
http://www.arkivmusic.com/classical/album.jsp?album_id=10870

My apologies for my bad memory, but there are a ot of Messiah
recordings out there and in my collection ! I was right about the
recording location, however (Boston Symphony Hall-live !) I remind
readers that this recording is of the Mozart arrangement but sung in
English. Coming from Parrott, I was amazed how good it was. Not
mechanical and slick like a lot of HIP Handel these days. The soloists
sing the words like they really mean it.

Alan Prichard

Matthew B. Tepper

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Dec 6, 2006, 9:37:55 PM12/6/06
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Sacqueboutier <nos...@nocomspamcast.net> appears to have caused the following
letters to be typed in news:2006120617223916807-nospam@nocomspamcastnet:

> On 2006-12-06 10:40:53 -0500, "Matthew B. Tepper" <oy兀earthlink.net> said:
>
>> Somewhere in a box in the second bedroom, I have the cassettes of the
>> John Tobin-conducted recording, which were the ONLY way this was
>> released in the US if I remember correctly. When I find those, IT'S
>> TRANSFERRIN' TIME!
>
> ...AAAAAAND, lossless posting time.

Perhaps that could be arranged, particularly since I now have two computers
here at home.

James Kahn

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Dec 6, 2006, 11:20:35 PM12/6/06
to

For non-HIP I would go for the earlier Marriner recording on London
with Ameling et al.

--
Jim
New York, NY
(Please remove "nospam." to get my e-mail address)
http://www.panix.com/~kahn

A. Brain

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Dec 7, 2006, 12:31:40 AM12/7/06
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"Keith Baird" <keith...@mail.utexas.edu> wrote in message
news:keith.baird-A092...@geraldo.cc.utexas.edu...


Every time this subject comes up I reiterate my
recommendation for the Hogwood. In the mid-'80s,
I worked at the only store here that carried a full
selection of classical music.

I would play selections from other recordings,
mainly the choruses, then switch to the Hogwood.
Virtually everyone went with the Hogwood.

I haven't heard the Pearlman or the new
Higginbottom yet. Both are cheap,
less than $20.

Another good one that is cheap is the
Somary, where Margaret Price and
Justinio Diaz are especially good.
--
A. Brain

Remove NOSPAM for email.


---MIKE---

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Dec 7, 2006, 8:22:20 AM12/7/06
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Alan wrote:

>Please be aware that there are two
> Perlman recordings. The one on Telarc
> is the one you probably refer to. It is
> good, but not as good as the one on
> Arabesque.

I think you are confused. The Arabesque recording is by Parrott not
Perlman,

How is the sound on the Arabesque recording?


---MIKE---
>>In the White Mountains of New Hampshire
>> (44° 15' N - Elevation 1580')

Handel8

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Dec 7, 2006, 8:52:25 AM12/7/06
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---MIKE--- wrote:
> Alan wrote:
>
> >Please be aware that there are two
> > Perlman recordings. The one on Telarc
> > is the one you probably refer to. It is
> > good, but not as good as the one on
> > Arabesque.
>
> I think you are confused. The Arabesque recording is by Parrott not
> Perlman,
>
> How is the sound on the Arabesque recording?
>
>

Yes, thanks. I caught my mistake and posted so before you did. See
my post below. It is confusing. Two conductors with last names
starting with a P and using Boston based performing groups.
The sound is good, not great. I recall you need to turn it up a bit
compared to most other cds. You do get sense of the hall and a live
event. There are no significant audience noises that should bother
anyone. I thought the pacing, tempi and all the soloists were just
great. It would be my pick of all Messiahs if it was not the Mozart
version.

Alan Prichard

Handel8

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Dec 7, 2006, 9:36:33 AM12/7/06
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Some more comments about the Colin Davis Messiah recording(s):
His first recording of the work for Philips was in 1966 IIRC. This
is the one that is easy to get a copy of from many outlets. I think it
has never been out of print since it came out.
Later, Davis did another reecording of Messiah for Philips that was
not nearly as succesfull. I have a copy on LP, but have yet to hear to
it. AFAIK it has never been issued on cd, which tells you something
about either the sales and/or the quality of same. From all the
reports I have seen on this indicate it is not as good as the first
recording.
I see a note in the new issue of Gramophone that Davis is doing the
work again with the LSO and it will be out on cd next spring or summer.
I have mixed feelings about that as I don't know that any of the
recent Davis recordings have been all that great. And if the work is
done in the Barbicon hall as usual in the LSO Live series, then the
sound will be just OK at best. If Davis uses a small performing group
as he should, I don't know what type of sound will get to disc in this
hall. We will see.

There is an important factor in the success of the 1966 Davis Messiah
recording that has never been mentioned or noted much. That is the
simple pacing of the work on the discs. As owners of the various
versions of this recording (LP and cd) may have noted, the time between
arias and/or choruses is very consistent at about 2 or 3 seconds. ( I
am very convinced that this was a decision that was made by the
conductor and carefully follwed through upon in the first mastering to
LP. I am surprised and happy to see that all of the later issues of
this recording keep the same timing format.) About two beats of the
baton, I believe.
I had never noticed this myself until I saw a paper given on this
very issue (without mentioning the Davis Messiah, however) at a Handel
conference in Maryland some 15 years or more ago. This paper was more
applicable to live performances of Handel oratorios, not recordings,
but the same thing applies as I see it. The paper gave a lot of
examples of how this should be done depending on the tempi of the
closing prior movement and the on coming up next. I don't remember
what examples were given but the gist of the paper was that if the
pause was longer than this, then the overall effect of such a
performance of a Handel oratorio can drag and possibly be deadly to the
listener. I have seen this myself on many occasions. It most likely
occurs with amateur performances of Messiah, but I recall a Alexander's
Feast I saw at the 92nd St Y in NYC in about 1985 that had long pauses
while soloists got into position or the chorus got up or stood down,
etc, etc. The effect was just enervating and deadly. It made for a
long evening. If you think about it, long pauses allow the listener to
lose the train of thought from the prior movement and then his mind may
drift onto other things before the next part begins the performance
again. If the pause is short, it seems more like an integrated
continuous work. This should be pretty simple and obvious, but it is
surprising that the Davis recording is the first one of this work that
I know of that really seems to have implemented this conmsistently. IMO
it really makes a huge difference. Later recordings of Messiah seem to
do this as a matter of course and the few live performances I have seen
of Handel oratorios in recnet years seem to follow this as best they
can, depending of course on whether the work is being staged or not.
These strictures apply to the operas as well, but scene changes can
delay things without any possible alleviation. Do do the pacing right
takes a lot of work and forsight on the part of the conductor and
performing forces. It should be a important part of the final
rehearsals and stage management.

Alan Prichard

Norman M. Schwartz

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Dec 7, 2006, 10:28:02 AM12/7/06
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"---MIKE---" <twinmo...@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:7406-457...@storefull-3255.bay.webtv.net...
Alan wrote:

>Please be aware that there are two
> Perlman recordings. The one on Telarc
> is the one you probably refer to. It is
> good, but not as good as the one on
> Arabesque.

I think you are confused. The Arabesque recording is by Parrott not
Perlman,

I think YOU are ALSO confused because the recording is by Pearlman and not
Perlman :-)

How is the sound on the Arabesque recording?

Clips I've heard don't particularly please me, but the sound "business" is
very personal.

Handel8

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Dec 7, 2006, 10:41:58 AM12/7/06
to

Norman M. Schwartz wrote:
> "---MIKE---" <twinmo...@webtv.net> wrote in message
> news:7406-457...@storefull-3255.bay.webtv.net...
> Alan wrote:
>
> >Please be aware that there are two
> > Perlman recordings. The one on Telarc
> > is the one you probably refer to. It is
> > good, but not as good as the one on
> > Arabesque.
>
> I think you are confused. The Arabesque recording is by Parrott not
> Perlman,
>
> I think YOU are ALSO confused because the recording is by Pearlman and not
> Perlman :-)
>
> How is the sound on the Arabesque recording?
>
> Clips I've heard don't particularly please me, but the sound "business" is
> very personal.
>
>
>
Yes, I corrected both errors in my first post after seeing my error(s).
Thanks. I said the sound is not top shelf in the live Parrott
recording. But the performance was key for me. I want to listen to
Parrott's first HIP recording. I don't think I have ever heard it
before. Maybe it is a sleeper.

Alan Prichard

matt

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Dec 7, 2006, 4:04:38 PM12/7/06
to

...The new Jacobs is vastly more interesting.
>
> Bill

For me too; Jacobs has really turned my head around. I particularly
recommend it to those who feel that HIP performances are too
emotionally cool; this one both sighs and sizzles. It makes me think
of the old mono Scherchen recording--very intense, very personal.

I also admire Leppard/ECO, Beecham (1959 especially,) and the second
Harnoncourt recording. For many of us who grew up with Sargent's early
50's Huddersfield recording, it maintains a special place in our
hearts, and I must mention it as a most moving and heartfelt account.
Matt

Sacqueboutier

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Dec 7, 2006, 9:02:18 PM12/7/06
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On 2006-12-07 16:04:38 -0500, "matt" <matt....@gmail.com> said:

>
> ...The new Jacobs is vastly more interesting.
>>
>> Bill
>
> For me too; Jacobs has really turned my head around. I particularly
> recommend it to those who feel that HIP performances are too
> emotionally cool; this one both sighs and sizzles. It makes me think
> of the old mono Scherchen recording--very intense, very personal.
>
> I also admire Leppard/ECO, Beecham (1959 especially,) and the second
> Harnoncourt recording.

I am only now listening to Harnoncourt's second recording. This set
boasts willful tempos, odd swells in phrasing (normal for Harnoncourt),
and what surely must be the most laughable set of soloists I have
ever heard. Just listen to "But Who May Abide" sung by that
wretchedly awful alto. I can't seem to find a pitch in the bass
solos.

Give me Hogwood any day of the week. Other excellent HIP
sets are Pinnock, Gardiner, and (I guess) Pearlman.
Excellent modern instrument sets by Marriner, Davis, Beecham,
Mackerras (Mozart's arrangement).

Richard Loeb

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Dec 7, 2006, 9:10:45 PM12/7/06
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"Sacqueboutier" <nos...@nocomspamcast.net> wrote in message
news:2006120721021843658-nospam@nocomspamcastnet...

I assume then you haven;t heard the Bonynge - now there is a very strange
assortment ----and the conducting!!!!!!! Richard


stewie3128

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Dec 8, 2006, 1:25:29 AM12/8/06
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On Dec 6, 12:52 am, Kirk McElhearn <kir...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Curiously, I only have two recordings of the Messiah, neither of which
> really grab me. (Minkowski and someone else.) I have no history of
> hearing this every holiday season, as many people in the UK do, so have
> never really considered it special.
>
> Any recommendations for a good one? How is Gardiner - it seems
> interesting that instead of trying to fill Wembley, he uses a small
> ensemble and choir...
>
> Thanks,
>
> Kirk

You can test drive some of these recommendations in iTunes at their
online music store - I think it would be most useful to actually hear
some of what you're going to buy, so that you know what you like (at
least, what you like for the time being...). I don't often buy off the
online iTunes store, because the sound quality is lacking relative to
the CD releases. That said, the Gardiner Messiah which is $32.99 at
arkivmusic.com is available through iTunes for $19.99.

And, FWIW, the Gardiner remains my favorite. :)

stewie3128

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Dec 8, 2006, 1:27:35 AM12/8/06
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On Dec 6, 6:46 am, Andrew Rose <and...@pristineaudio.com> wrote:
> Samples online, though I can't say I've heard
> enough of it to rate it against anyone else yet.
>
> Performers: Oregon Bach Festival Orchestra & Choir
> Soloists: Sibylla Rubens, Ingeborg Danz, James Taylor, Thomas Quasthoff

Hell, Quasthoff is involved, which is enough for me to give it a look...

Brendan R. Wehrung

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Dec 8, 2006, 2:25:28 AM12/8/06
to

And the stereo Scherchen, which is achingly (in the best sense) slow.
Let's call it "fully expressive."

Brendan

Andrew Rose

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Dec 8, 2006, 3:22:13 AM12/8/06
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Should be available to download on Monday...

Richard Loeb

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Dec 8, 2006, 6:27:08 AM12/8/06
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"stewie3128" <ajr...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1165559129....@j44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
You can hear excerpts in quite good sound at amazon.com - I tried the new
Jacobs that way Richard


Sacqueboutier

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Dec 8, 2006, 6:43:58 AM12/8/06
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No, I haven't heard Bonynge and there's a good reason for that.
After a few excursions into his recordings, I've avoided them
ever since.

Kirk McElhearn

unread,
Dec 8, 2006, 7:53:12 AM12/8/06
to
On 2006-12-08 07:25:29 +0100, "stewie3128" <ajr...@gmail.com> said:

> You can test drive some of these recommendations in iTunes at their
> online music store - I think it would be most useful to actually hear
> some of what you're going to buy, so that you know what you like (at
> least, what you like for the time being...). I don't often buy off the
> online iTunes store, because the sound quality is lacking relative to
> the CD releases. That said, the Gardiner Messiah which is $32.99 at
> arkivmusic.com is available through iTunes for $19.99.

Yes, I know. A much more reasonable price...

Kirk
--
Read my blog, Kirkville
http://www.mcelhearn.com

Handel8

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Dec 8, 2006, 8:00:05 AM12/8/06
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I would recommend to you the two cd Decca set of Handel overtures done
by Bonynge. They were recorded in Kingsway Hall, I believe, but in any
case, the performances and sound are top shelf ! Don't miss them. May
only be avaialble in England. Yes, his Messiah is just crazy, but fun,
I'd say.

Alan Prichard

Handel8

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Dec 8, 2006, 8:50:47 AM12/8/06
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I just got done playing through the new Messiah on Linn Records
conducted by John Butt that got a rave review by David Vickers in the
December issue of Gramophone. I wish I shared his enthusiasum. It is a
good performance of the 1742 Dublin version. I find the performance
kind of clinical and bloodless for the most part. The soloists are
good, but not as good or as interesting as any number of mother Messiah
recordings I have heard. The Butt solists struck me as plain jane. Not
a lot of color to their singing. And Butt, while his tempi are just
fine, does not do anything to emphasise pionts in the score. I think
this recording is really for the scholars which I believe is primarily
Vickers point of view. For a layman like myself, the Butt performance
falls well short of the emotion of other recordings of this work, in
particular the great new Rene Jacobs recording on Harmonia Mundi that I
mentioned in a previous post on this thread. As to the variant
versions in the Dublin version, I will say I will never like the early
version of the aria "Rejoice Greatly" as much as the more famous
version. The Dublin version starts off well, but then sounds sing
songy to me as if it is a children's nursery rhyme. It is no wonder
that Handel seems to have revised this aria to the version that we know
today. Also, this Dublin version has a short recitative just before
the Hallelijuh chorus.
Doesn't do it for me. Again, Handel's later thoughts on this produced
a better work overall.
I look foward next to playing the first Andrew Parrott Messiah on
Virgin, originally EMI After that, I will be done with this work for a
few months. It is overexposed as it is for me.

Alan Prichard

Norman M. Schwartz

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Dec 9, 2006, 10:37:16 AM12/9/06
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"Richard Loeb" <loe...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:5_6dnRllzpyQ0eTY...@comcast.com...
I can't even find this recording at Amazon.com

>


Richard Loeb

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Dec 9, 2006, 1:01:43 PM12/9/06
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I don't know why - its right here

http://www.amazon.com/Handel-Messiah/dp/B000GUJYKQ/sr=8-1/qid=1165687253/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/002-7132931-9248823?ie=UTF8&s=music


Richard
"Norman M. Schwartz" <nm...@optonline.net> wrote in message
news:RKAeh.292$tv5...@newsfe11.lga...

Norman M. Schwartz

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Dec 9, 2006, 2:26:50 PM12/9/06
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"Richard Loeb" <loe...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:hdKdnQZVLIKaZ-fY...@comcast.com...

Many thanks Richard, I ordered it from Caiman.

Andrew Rose

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Dec 9, 2006, 11:08:36 PM12/9/06
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