Complete "Sleeping Beauty" Recordings: Fistoulari and Fedotov?
Morphological
never quite been satisfied with any of the available CD issues of it.
So far, I've heard Mogrelia, Dorati, Previn, Bonynge and Gergiev. None
of them really do this music justice. Dorati and Gergiev in particular
came highly recommended, but I found the Dorati brittle (with some
weirdness going on with the lower strings during the "Marche" of the
Prologue) and the Gergiev too manic and terse. Mogrelia and Bonynge do
better, but for some intangible reasons never really moved me.
I have, however, a set of extended excerpts by Anatole Fistoulari with
the London Symphony appended as filler material to Dorati's
Concertgebouw "Nutcracker" on a Philips set, apparently dating from
the 60s. Those are perhaps the most thrilling performances of this
score I've ever heard. The sound quality is fantastic and the playing
precise and warm. I love Fistoulari's tempi choices as well. Do these
selections come from a complete recording of the work and, if so, has
it ever been issued on CD? This review seems to suggest there is a
complete recording in existence: http://www.classicalcdreview.com/adnut.htm
Then there is this set allegedly by Viktor Fedotov with the Leningrad
Philharmonic on a label called Audiophile that I have. I was actually
very impressed with this recording. The sound is nowhere near as clear
as the Fistoulari selections, but the pacing and playing is
atmospheric and exciting. However, upon searching for information on
this recording, I came upon a messages on this list (see a thread
called "Faux Fedotov" from February 2003) that indicated that the
recording featured in this release is not, in fact, the Fedotov set
previously issued on LP. Has anyone managed to discover what, exactly,
is the recording featured on the release I have? I have found another
release by a label called Classical Recordings which seems to be more
complete than the Audiophile set. Is this the genuine Fedotov?
Thanks for any help you can provide!
Mike
td
wrote:
There was NO complete set at Philips when I decided to use those
excerpts for Dorati's Nutcracker.
Glad you enjoyed them and I hope you continue to do so.
There are some Fistoulari Tchaikovsky ballets available in Japan. But
no Sleeping Beauty in stereo, only transfers from Lps in mono, if I
remember correctly.
Check HMV in Japan.
TD
wagnerfan
Fistoulari recorded a "complete" Sleeping Beauty and Swan Lake for
Decca in the early 50s with the Paris Conservatory orch. Both sets
were later reissued on the Richmond label and remain great sets -
beautifully recorded as well. For me, my favorite Sleeping Beauty is
the Ermler with the Covent Garden Orchestra. Wagner fan
David Oberman
<troubleso...@gmail.com> wrote:
>This is probably my favorite of Tchaikovsky's ballets and yet, I've
>never quite been satisfied with any of the available CD issues of it.
>So far, I've heard Mogrelia, Dorati, Previn, Bonynge and Gergiev.
My favorite is the Michael Tilson Thomas. The clincher to me is the
No. 4, Scene dansante -- the entrance of Drosselmeyer. This andantino,
Western music's ninth greatest andantino written in the sostenuto
mode, must quiver with nervous anxiety over the unknown, just around
the corner, & yet must remain stately & sharp -- stilted & frenetic,
like a Prussian at play. Tilson Thomas & his team carry it off more
effectively than anyone has a right to expect.
wagnerfan
> On Tue, 23 Feb 2010 15:23:25 -0800 (PST), Morphological
>
I'll have to check that out but I think the OP was asking about
Sleeping Beauty recordings. Wagner fan
David Oberman
<wagn...@comcast.net> wrote:
>I'll have to check that out but I think the OP was asking about
>Sleeping Beauty recordings. Wagner fan
Ohhhhhhhhhhhhh, so he was!
Scratch that.
I just finished watching Betty Grable in DOWN ARGENTINE WAY, so my
mind is in Technicolor Plum-Pudding Land.
Morphological
Ah, thanks for clearing that up. It's a shame that we don't have a
complete stereo version from them, but I'll definitely continue to
prize the selections that are on the Dorati "Nutcracker." I'm grateful
to at least have these available on CD.
Morphological
> On Tue, 23 Feb 2010 16:49:56 -0800 (PST), wagnerfan
>
> >I'll have to check that out but I think the OP was asking about
> >Sleeping Beauty recordings. Wagner fan
>
> Ohhhhhhhhhhhhh, so he was!
> Scratch that.
>
> I just finished watching Betty Grable in DOWN ARGENTINE WAY, so my
> mind is in Technicolor Plum-Pudding Land.
Yes, I was talking about "The Sleeping Beauty" -- not "Nutcracker"
which I also love. My preference for "Nutcracker" is a recording that
doesn't get a lot of attention: Maurice de Abravanel with the Utah
Symphony on Vanguard. Beautiful warm sound and rhythmically sensitive
conducting that is gorgeous and dancerly. And the playing itself from
the musicians surprised me for being an orchestra without much cachet
as far was I knew. Second favorite is Mariss Jansons (I forget which
orchestra) on EMI for its drama. I borrowed the Tilson Thomas from the
library once, but I don't remember very much about it.
Morphological
Thanks for the leads, wagnerfan. I looked for the mono recordings you
mentioned and found this Naxos release: http://www.naxos.com/catalogue/item.asp?item_code=9.80559-60
<- is it the same one? I have heard Ermler's recordings of Delibes'
"Coppelia" and also his "Swan Lake" and I remember liking them quite a
lot. The acoustics are particularly spacious. I'll look for his
"Sleeping Beauty."
Gerard
> as far was I knew. Second favorite is Mariss Jansons (I forget which
> orchestra) on EMI for its drama.
Jansons is with the London Philharmonic.
Gerard
> This is probably my favorite of Tchaikovsky's ballets and yet, I've
> never quite been satisfied with any of the available CD issues of it.
> So far, I've heard Mogrelia, Dorati, Previn, Bonynge and Gergiev. None
> of them really do this music justice.
Doing the music justice looks like something subjective.
But I'ld like to recommend to you the DG recording by Pletnev (available on a DG
twofer, and in a very cheap box with the other ballets by Ozawa).
CharlesSmith
>
> Then there is this set allegedly by Viktor Fedotov with the Leningrad
> Philharmonic on a label called Audiophile that I have. I was actually
> very impressed with this recording. The sound is nowhere near as clear
> as the Fistoulari selections, but the pacing and playing is
> atmospheric and exciting. However, upon searching for information on
> this recording, I came upon a messages on this list (see a thread
> called "Faux Fedotov" from February 2003) that indicated that the
> recording featured in this release is not, in fact, the Fedotov set
> previously issued on LP. Has anyone managed to discover what, exactly,
> is the recording featured on the release I have? I have found another
> release by a label called Classical Recordings which seems to be more
> complete than the Audiophile set. Is this the genuine Fedotov?
>
> Thanks for any help you can provide!
> Mike
Just searching around myself - there's an Audio Legends recording with
the Leningrad PO
http://tinyurl.com/ye996u
And there's a Classical Recordings with the State Academic St
Petersburg Philharmonic SO
http://tinyurl.com/yjcat86
(At the bottom of the page there's a nice review quote from the Daily
Telegraph that's looks like it's been translated into Russian and back
again.)
Listening to the samples I'm pretty sure these aren't the same. Also
the Audio Legends sound isn't very good (might be the Amazon samples)
while the Classical Records sounds quite crisp and clean. Almost
tempting. But which is genuine and which faux I can't say.
Charles
herman
ballet theatre is on a ballet video.
td
> I tend to think that the best way to hear this music outside the
> ballet theatre is on a ballet video.
The only problem being the slowish tempos.
Hard to get used to those once you have heard Dorati/LSO on MLP or
Dorati/COA on Philips. The music just sounds sluggish. I understand:
it's ballet music. But i can dream of dancers who can actually dance
to Dorati's tempos, can't I, instead of being reminded constantly how
many allowances have to be made for dancers' physical limitations.
What I need is a ballet troupe which is made up entirely of
Baryshnikovs and Margot Fonteynes!!!
TD
herman
As far as the "physical limitations" are concerned, most soloists are
technically easily in Fonteyn's ballpark if not better equipped. Fifty
years have passed since Fonteyn's prime. Baryshnikov's lack of length
was considered to be a major "physical limitation".
Speed isn't everything, you know.
CharlesSmith
Mark Ermler, I think, referred to the lack of synchronisation between
Petipa's choreography and Tchaikovsky's tempos. In the recording
studio he was freed from this problem and could interpret the scores
as symphonic music. For myself I would always prefer a studio or
concert performance of these ballets to a theatre-constrained
performance.
Charles
td
Length? I suppose you mean height?
Did you ever see Fonteyn? No, not on video, in the theatre.
TD
Kerrison
>
> - Show quoted text -
Although this isn't what is being looked for, Fistoulari recorded
"Swan Lake" complete in Decca Phase 4 Stereo in 1974 with the
Netherlands Radio Philharmonic and Ruggiero Ricci as violin soloist.
The Penguin Guide found the acoustics of the Hilversum radio studio
where it was recorded "dry and unexpansive" but was full of praise for
Fistoulari's conducting and for the "vivid qualities and romantic
sweep of this splendid performance." I assume it's never been issued
on CD?
herman
Yeah, sorry. I think "length" in the double entendre meaning does not
necessarily play a big role. (Except perhaps in Ashton ballets, where
F.A. got to decide which men were going to dance.)
Yes I did, as a teenager. Even in Fonteyn's day, in her own company,
there were technically more accomplished dancers. As in music though,
having limitations one has to push against can be an expressive plus.
But if it's just about velocity, virtually all soloists of today can
do what she could do.
Morphological
It depends on where you're starting from IMO. I am actually used to
hearing this music accompanying dancers, so Dorati will always sound
too fast to me.
Morphological
Yes, obviously it is subjective. I hope I didn't suggest otherwise.
I'll check out the Pletnev recording. I've heard his piano renditions
and have enjoyed them greatly.
Morphological
> On 23 Feb, 23:23, Morphological <troublesometune...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > Then there is this set allegedly by Viktor Fedotov with the Leningrad
> > Philharmonic on a label called Audiophile that I have. I was actually
> > very impressed with this recording. The sound is nowhere near as clear
> > as the Fistoulari selections, but the pacing and playing is
> > atmospheric and exciting. However, upon searching for information on
> > this recording, I came upon a messages on this list (see a thread
> > called "Faux Fedotov" from February 2003) that indicated that the
> > recording featured in this release is not, in fact, the Fedotov set
> > previously issued on LP. Has anyone managed to discover what, exactly,
> > is the recording featured on the release I have? I have found another
> > release by a label called Classical Recordings which seems to be more
> > complete than the Audiophile set. Is this the genuine Fedotov?
>
> > Thanks for any help you can provide!
> > Mike
>
> Just searching around myself - there's an Audio Legends recording with
>
> And there's a Classical Recordings with the State Academic St
> (At the bottom of the page there's a nice review quote from the Daily
> Telegraph that's looks like it's been translated into Russian and back
> again.)
>
> Listening to the samples I'm pretty sure these aren't the same. Also
> the Audio Legends sound isn't very good (might be the Amazon samples)
> while the Classical Records sounds quite crisp and clean. Almost
> tempting. But which is genuine and which faux I can't say.
>
> Charles
The Audio Legends one looks to be the one I have. Perhaps they're both
Fedotov? Did he record it twice?
Gerard
No, you didn't suggest otherwise. But it might happen that I think that Pletnev
does the music more justice than others do (although I agree with about
Fistoulari), while you have very different ideas about doing justice.
'Full justice' in Pletnev's case is, imo, full justice to the music as an
orchestral work. (Full justice to the music as an accompaniment of a ballet
performance is another matter.)
Another candidate (to listen to) is Lanchberry on EMI.
This should still be available in a very, very cheapish box with the other
ballets (with Lanchberry), and all the symphonies with Muti - really a
recommendable set!).
Lanchberry does this music fully justice as ballet music.
td
it isn't ONLY about velocity. And NO, I do not think virtually all
soloists of today can do what she could do.
Ditto, Maya Plesistkaya.
Ditto, Nureyev.
TD
Paul
not the live account on the BBC's label).
Paul
td
> For "Sleeping Beauty" try Rozhdestvensky & the BBC SO (studio version, not the live account on the BBC's label).
Yes. Fabulous recording. Special.
TD
CharlesSmith
It looks like that to me. I've posted a query re the Classical Records
recording date on their web site, so I'll let you know if I get a
reply.
Morphological
Thanks, Charles. I listened to a few samples of the Classical
Recordings release and was quite impressed. Also, it seems to be
relatively complete.
Morphological
I'll look for Rozhdestvensky. I've heard good things about his
"Nutcracker" as well. The studio version appears to be out-of-print so
I'll pokearound and see if I can find a secondhand copy.
Fymido Lenito
The Pletnev recording is available at www.broinc.com for $14.
Gerard
While the 5 CD DG box (with all ballets - Pletnev/Ozawa) can be found at MDT for
BP 26.
http://www.mdt.co.uk/MDTSite/product//4775153.htm
Morphological
> Fymido Lenito wrote:
> > Morphological wrote:
> > > On Feb 24, 4:46 am, "Gerard" <ghen_nospam_driksen @hotmail.com>
> > > wrote:
> > > > Morphological wrote:
> > > > > This is probably my favorite of Tchaikovsky's ballets and yet,
> > > > > I've never quite been satisfied with any of the available CD
> > > > > issues of it. So far, I've heard Mogrelia, Dorati, Previn,
> > > > > Bonynge and Gergiev. None of them really do this music justice.
> > > > Doing the music justice looks like something subjective.
> > > > But I'ld like to recommend to you the DG recording by Pletnev
> > > > (available on a DG twofer, and in a very cheap box with the other
> > > > ballets by Ozawa).
>
> > > Yes, obviously it is subjective. I hope I didn't suggest otherwise.
> > > I'll check out the Pletnev recording. I've heard his piano
> > > renditions and have enjoyed them greatly.
>
>
> While the 5 CD DG box (with all ballets - Pletnev/Ozawa) can be found at MDT for
> BP 26.http://www.mdt.co.uk/MDTSite/product//4775153.htm
I'm in the U.S. I saw this set the other day at Barnes and Noble for
about $40, which sounds about the same. I already have Ozawa's "Swan
Lake." Is the Nutcracker worth the extra money to shell out for the
whole set?
Gerard
I don't think so. It is a very good recording, but it will not replace anyone's
favorite - no matter what your favorite recording is ;)
The boxed might show up at BRO sooner or later. But the only thing you "need" is
Pletnev's Sleeping Beauty.
td
Sorry for being late to reply to this post.
Listening to that version by Rozhdestvensky with the Bolshoi Theatre
Orchestra, which I finally located in the library. It's on Melodiya.
(MEL CD 10 00665 (2 CDs) Total playing time: 83:38, so not really on
the slow side. The recording announces itself as "stereo". Perhaps,
but the sound is very Soviet-era, I am afraid. This is what one
expects from a Soviet recording which was made in 1961. What IS
distinctive is the sound of the winds. The strings are a trifle
steely, but that's the recording quality.
TD
Gerard
>
> Listening to that version by Rozhdestvensky with the Bolshoi Theatre
> Orchestra, which I finally located in the library. It's on Melodiya.
> (MEL CD 10 00665 (2 CDs) Total playing time: 83:38, so not really on
> the slow side.
With a few cuts maybe.
> The recording announces itself as "stereo". Perhaps,
> but the sound is very Soviet-era, I am afraid. This is what one
> expects from a Soviet recording which was made in 1961. What IS
> distinctive is the sound of the winds. The strings are a trifle
> steely, but that's the recording quality.
>
But not always.
Rozhdestvensky's recording of the Nutcracker (recorded for Melodiya in 1960,
with the same orchestra) sounds pretty good, and surely much better than
'expected'. Even much better than Svetlanov's recording of the Nutcracker, for
Melodiya, made in 1988.
Gerard
I saw later that you were not talking about Sleeping Beauty, but about that same
Nutcracker recording.
I have a different issue of that one: Melodiya 74321 40067 2 (a BMG twofer).
td
wrote:
> td wrote:
>
> > Listening to that version by Rozhdestvensky with the Bolshoi Theatre
> > Orchestra, which I finally located in the library. It's on Melodiya.
> > (MEL CD 10 00665 (2 CDs) Total playing time: 83:38, so not really on
> > the slow side.
>
> With a few cuts maybe
Gergiev got his down to about 82:00. Dorati's also can fit on one CD,
I seem to recall. No cuts in either of those.
> > The recording announces itself as "stereo". Perhaps,
> > but the sound is very Soviet-era, I am afraid. This is what one
> > expects from a Soviet recording which was made in 1961. What IS
> > distinctive is the sound of the winds. The strings are a trifle
> > steely, but that's the recording quality.
>
> But not always.
> Rozhdestvensky's recording of the Nutcracker (recorded for Melodiya in 1960,
> with the same orchestra) sounds pretty good, and surely much better than
> 'expected'. Even much better than Svetlanov's recording of the Nutcracker, for
> Melodiya, made in 1988.
Hmmm.
This is the recording I am talking about. Rozhdestvensky's. Perhaps
that wasn't clear? The copyright is given as 1961, by the way, which
may not be the recording date, of course.
Frankly, you know, I prefer the homogenous sound of Rozhdestvensky's
Romeo and Juliet which is definitely in mono. Certainly the strings
are less steely from what I remember of it, but I haven't listened to
it in a while, I admit.
TD
td
> There's very little wrong with the sound of the Bolshoi
> 'Nutcracker' (produced by David Haklin) on LP - either as the 1977 UK
> issue (HMV Concert Classiscs SXDW 3028) - or even the original Soviet
> 'Torch' stereos (rather more surprising..) - 33C 0169-72.
You may have noticed that I am referring directly and specifically to
the CD issue, not any original LP or UK LP transfer. And there IS a
lot to be desired in that recording. "gritty" would be one way of
describing it. And I say this as an admirer of Rozhdesvensky's
Sleeping Beauty - which is a complete pleasure to listen to and his
Prokofiev ballets, even on CD.
TD
Gerard
> On Mar 10, 2:11 pm, TheMusicParlour <tin...@ymail.com> wrote:
> > There's very little wrong with the sound of the Bolshoi
> > 'Nutcracker' (produced by David Haklin) on LP - either as the 1977
> > UK issue (HMV Concert Classiscs SXDW 3028) - or even the original
> > Soviet 'Torch' stereos (rather more surprising..) - 33C 0169-72.
>
> You may have noticed that I am referring directly and specifically to
> the CD issue, not any original LP or UK LP transfer. And there IS a
> lot to be desired in that recording. "gritty" would be one way of
> describing it.
I have this on CD (Melodiya 74321 40067 2). The sound is not perfect, but it's
really good.
td
Well, we shall have to disagree on that score, I am afraid. I prefer
the mono sound of his R&J.
TD
gggg gggg
> This is probably my favorite of Tchaikovsky's ballets and yet, I've
> never quite been satisfied with any of the available CD issues of it.
> So far, I've heard Mogrelia, Dorati, Previn, Bonynge and Gergiev. None
> came highly recommended, but I found the Dorati brittle (with some
> weirdness going on with the lower strings during the "Marche" of the
> Prologue) ...
(2022 Y. upload):
"Tchaikovsky - The Sleeping Beauty Op. 66 / REMASTERED (Ct.rc.: Antal Doráti, Minneapolis Orchestra)"