Erich Kleiber's Eroicas
Derek Haslam
about the Decca/London LP recordings with the VPO and the
Concertgebouw. Is either of these available on CD? What are people's
opnions on the relative merits of these two performances?
Derek Haslam
--
Mastery of the rules is a prerequisite for breaking them creatively.
Peter J
> How many recordings of the 'Eroica' did Erich Kleiber make? I know
> about the Decca/London LP recordings with the VPO and the
> Concertgebouw. Is either of these available on CD? What are people's
> opnions on the relative merits of these two performances?
>
> Derek Haslam
Decca Original Masters: this issue has both recordings
Peter
rkhalona
> How many recordings of the 'Eroica' did Erich Kleiber make? I know
> about the Decca/London LP recordings with the VPO and the
> Concertgebouw. Is either of these available on CD? What are people's
> opnions on the relative merits of these two performances?
>
> Derek Haslam
>
Those are the only two STUDIO recordings of the Eroica that Kleiber
made, but there two more live recordings:
* NBC Orch. Broadcast, NY 1948 (on Urania and on Music and Arts)
* Stuttgart RSO (Dec. 1955, on several LP labels + Doremi and
Kapellmeister CDs)
See Toru Hirasawa's wonderpul pages for the discographies of the
Kleibers
Regarding preference between the two studio recordings, despite the
poor sound and balancing, I prefer the Vienna recording. I would
concede that the Concertgebouw recording has an almost reckless
quality that is very exciting (almost as reckless as Carlos' live
Beethoven 5th with the CSO), but for my taste it is no match to the
magisterial reading he achieved with Vienna.
RK
rkhalona
> On 19 Jun, 18:21, Derek Haslam <d...@ukgateway.invalid> wrote:
>
> > How many recordings of the 'Eroica' did Erich Kleiber make? I know
> > about the Decca/London LP recordings with the VPO and the
> > Concertgebouw. Is either of these available on CD? What are people's
> > opnions on the relative merits of these two performances?
>
> > Derek Haslam
>
> Decca Original Masters: this issue has both recordings
>
>
> orhttp://tinyurl.com/4lvqm4
>
> Peter
Both of Kleiber's studio Eroicas were issued on the Decca Historical
series, which are now OOP, but are not that difficult to find (I see
used copies on Amazon right now). The Concertgebouw Eroica was also
issued on Decca Legends (in print), coupled to his peerless COA
Beethoven 5th, but the pitch on the Eroica seems sharp to me.
RK
Dontait...@aol.com
The Vienna recording has the first movement repeat, which was a
great phonographic (and probably performance) rarity before recently.
I have been told that the Vienna recording was made in stereo but that
the stereo tapes were "wiped," leaving only the mono master which
wasn't issued until about 1958/9, after Erich Kleiber's death.
I am interested by Ramon's comments and want to listen to the
recordings again.
Don Tait
rkhalona
I remember the shock of hearing the exposition repeat for the first
time on the French Decca LP. Kleiber had forbidden the release of
this recording on account of the poor sound and balance, but it was
released in France in 1959, IIRC.
> I have been told that the Vienna recording was made in stereo but that
> the stereo tapes were "wiped," leaving only the mono master which
> wasn't issued until about 1958/9, after Erich Kleiber's death.
Yes, I believe it was Mike Gray who first told us here that Arthur
Haddy had the stereo taped erased. This is one of my candidates for
greatest CM recording crimes of the 20th century.
RK
rkhalona
> great phonographic (and probably performance) rarity before >recently.
BTW, IIANM, it was Mengelberg who first observed the repeat on a
commercial recording (with the NYPSO in 1930, now on a Biddulph CD).
RK
Dontait...@aol.com
The first USA release was on a Richmond LP around 1959. Richmond was
the "cheap" ($1.98) London/Decca US label, mostly reissues but in this
and a few other cases titles new to the catalogue. That's how I first
got it.
And you probably know all that about Richmond! Sorry.
Don Tait
Eric Grunin
> BTW, IIANM, it was Mengelberg who first observed the repeat on a
> commercial recording (with the NYPSO in 1930, now on a Biddulph CD).
YANM. Kleiber was #2.
Regards,
Eric Grunin
www.grunin.com/eroica
Derek Haslam
ps.com>
Dontait...@aol.com wrote:
> On Jun 19, 1:21?pm, rkhalona <rkhal...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> On Jun 19, 10:21?am, Derek Haslam <d...@ukgateway.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>> How many recordings of the 'Eroica' did Erich Kleiber make? I know
>>> about the Decca/London LP recordings with the VPO and the
>>> Concertgebouw. Is either of these available on CD? What are people's
>>> opnions on the relative merits of these two performances?
>>
>>> Derek Haslam
>>
>> Those are the only two STUDIO recordings of the Eroica that Kleiber
>> made, but there two more live recordings:
>>
>> * NBC Orch. Broadcast, NY 1948 (on Urania and on Music and Arts)
>> * Stuttgart RSO (Dec. 1955, on several LP labels + Doremi and
>> Kapellmeister CDs)
>>
>> See Toru Hirasawa's wonderpul pages for the discographies of the
>> Kleibers
>>
>> http://www.thrsw.com/
>>
>> Regarding preference between the two studio recordings, despite the
>> poor sound and balancing, I prefer the Vienna recording. ?I would
>> concede that the Concertgebouw recording has an almost reckless
>> quality that is very exciting (almost as reckless as Carlos' live
>> Beethoven 5th with the CSO), but for my taste it is no match to the
>> magisterial reading he achieved with Vienna.
>>
>> RK
> The Vienna recording has the first movement repeat, which was a
> great phonographic (and probably performance) rarity before recently.
> I have been told that the Vienna recording was made in stereo but that
> the stereo tapes were "wiped," leaving only the mono master which
> wasn't issued until about 1958/9, after Erich Kleiber's death.
> I am interested by Ramon's comments and want to listen to the
> recordings again.
> Don Tait
I first got to know the symphony via the VPO recording on a Decca Ace
of Clubs LP. I still have it and it's still a favourite performance.
Someone told me once that there was a faulty microphone over the brass
section and that this was why Kleiber banned the release during his
lifetime. As far as I know it never appeared on Decca's regular
full-price label but only on the budget ACL series.
pgaron
> As far as I know it never appeared on Decca's regular
> full-price label but only on the budget ACL series.
I had one of those once, but returned it because it was torn.
david...@aol.com
> * NBC Orch. Broadcast, NY 1948 (on Urania and on Music and Arts)
> * Stuttgart RSO (Dec. 1955, on several LP labels + Doremi and
> Kapellmeister CDs)
Ramon, which transfer of the Stuttgart performance do you prefer?
Every Doremi transfer I’ve heard has been so heavily de-noised as to
be unlistenable. (Their transfer of live performances of the
Juilliard Quartet playing the Mozart quintets is a disgrace.)
> Regarding preference between the two studio recordings, despite the
> poor sound and balancing, I prefer the Vienna recording. I would
> concede that the Concertgebouw recording has an almost reckless
> quality that is very exciting (almost as reckless as Carlos' live
> Beethoven 5th with the CSO), but for my taste it is no match to the
> magisterial reading he achieved with Vienna.
I prefer whichever of the two studio recordings I’m listening to at
the moment, and there are very few other performances I've heard that
I think are remotely as good.
-david gable
rkhalona
> On Jun 19, 2:21 pm, rkhalona <rkhal...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > * NBC Orch. Broadcast, NY 1948 (on Urania and on Music and Arts)
> > * Stuttgart RSO (Dec. 1955, on several LP labels + Doremi and
> > Kapellmeister CDs)
>
> Ramon, which transfer of the Stuttgart performance do you prefer?
Melodiya LP.
RK