Greatest recordings?
John Johnson
[1] of suggested recordings/most essential pieces. My tastes tend to
run towards full symphonies on the one hand, and some of the early
madrigles and other sacred music of the medieval and rennaissance
periods, but I still don't know much about them.
Has there been a list compiled somewhere by a respected [2] source
listing the 50 or 100 most important classical pieces and/or the best
recordings of those pieces?
Thanks!
--
John Johnson
1. As with all lists, there's bound to be disagreement over pieces that
were included, and those that were excluded. That's not important to
me--what I'm looking for is something that will give me a quick
overview of classical music, at which point I'll (hopefully) have
enough knowledge to search elsewhere. (I've already been to
http://www.classical.net/music/rep/periods.html which is a great
resource, but has a bit too much info for me right now.)
2. If I wanted a list of the top 100 rock albums, I'd probably turn to
Rolling Stone magazine, or some other similar publication. I wouldn't
rely on John Doe's list, unless he happened to be a respected rock
critic. Likewise, I'd like to look at lists compiled by respected
people in the field of classical music.
Hope this makes sense.
mazzolata
> Being fairly unfamiliar with classical music, I'm looking for a list
> [1] of suggested recordings/most essential pieces. My tastes tend to
> run towards full symphonies on the one hand, and some of the early
> madrigles and other sacred music of the medieval and rennaissance
> periods, but I still don't know much about them.
>
> Has there been a list compiled somewhere by a respected [2] source
> listing the 50 or 100 most important classical pieces and/or the best
> recordings of those pieces?
>
> Thanks!
>
I think the best guide for a beginner is the Rough Guides one, which is
available at:
http://www.roughguides.com/music/classical.html
I have bought several CDs based on their recommendations, and have not
been disappointed yet. Personally I would recommend that you start with
Bach, Mozart, Beethoven, Schubert, Mahler and Stravinsky, and you won't
go far wrong. Then branch out from there.
--
------------------------------------------------------------------
Ma chambre a la forme d'une cage
le soleil passe son bras par la fenetre
Stephen Worth
<smiley...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Has there been a list compiled somewhere by a respected [2] source
> listing the 50 or 100 most important classical pieces and/or the best
> recordings of those pieces?
If you are interested in records as opposed to CDs, there is a set of
100 LPs by Franklin Mint called "The 100 Greatest Recordings of all
Time". It was put together by Kolodin and is a very good sampling of
all types of classical music in recordings from the teens and 20s all
the way up to the 80s. The records are pressed on audiophile red vinyl,
and the sets come with extensive liner notes. They sell on ebay for
around $2 a disk individually or $1 a disk in large batches, so they're
a real bargain. If you are just starting out in classical music and
want to hear a variety before sinking a lot of money into CDs, you
can't go wrong with this series.
See ya
Steve
--
*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*
VIP RECORDS: Professional Transfers of Classic 78 rpm Recordings
The best Jazz you've never heard! 20s Dance Bands - British Swing - Opera
FREE MP3s OF COMPLETE SONGS http://www.vintageip.com/records/
Thomas Wood
John Johnson <smiley...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.19a41cf5b...@news.cis.dfn.de...
> Being fairly unfamiliar with classical music, I'm looking for a list
> [1] of suggested recordings/most essential pieces. My tastes tend to
> run towards full symphonies on the one hand, and some of the early
> madrigles and other sacred music of the medieval and rennaissance
> periods, but I still don't know much about them.
>
> Has there been a list compiled somewhere by a respected [2] source
> listing the 50 or 100 most important classical pieces and/or the best
> recordings of those pieces?
>
> Thanks!
National Public Radio's Performance Today compiled a list of 50 essential
classical recordings: http://www.npr.org/programs/pt/features/pt50/
It's a pretty safe list -- all good recordings, though of course it's a
matter of opinion if they are indeed "essential" or "the best."
Gramophone magazine also has a list of recommended recordings -- well over
100, however. You can search the list at
http://www.gramophone.co.uk/recrecordings.asp
In this case you have to take Gramophone's pro-British bias into account
(they OFTEN prefer recordings done by British perfomers/conductors/recording
labels.) But again it can be somewhat helpful.
Tom Wood
David Hurwitz
>
>Being fairly unfamiliar with classical music, I'm looking for a list
>[1] of suggested recordings/most essential pieces. My tastes tend to
>run towards full symphonies on the one hand, and some of the early
>madrigles and other sacred music of the medieval and rennaissance
>periods, but I still don't know much about them.
>
>Has there been a list compiled somewhere by a respected [2] source
>listing the 50 or 100 most important classical pieces and/or the best
>recordings of those pieces?
>
>Thanks!
>
In addition to all of the other sensible advice on offer, I might also point out
that the standard of performance today is quite high. It is very unlikely,
however passionately we kill each other in this ng, that what you buy will be
bad. The fact is that as a beginner you may not even be in a position to know
WHY a recording is generally considered great, and this being the case it's not
something you really need to worry about too much.
Unless it is written in stone that you are going to buy X number of discs and no
more, no matter what, you will probably find that you like certain works more
than others. The ones that you like you will probably want to have in more than
one performance, because you are likely to hear other versions in the normal
course of your life and some may strike you as desirable. So very quickly you
will find yourself moving away from the '100 Best' to simply 'those that please
me most,' and frankly that's where I think you want to be.
The other thing to always keep in mind is that full price NEVER means better
quality; often it's just the opposite, as many other have pointed out here with
some regularity. So you really don't need to run a big financial risk. For
example, for around $30, you can purchase:
Mozart: Symphonies 35, 40, 41 (Szell/Cleveland) Sony Essential Classics
Chopin: Piano Sonata No. 2 (Moravec) Vox
Brahms: Violin Concerto (Oistrakh/Klemperer) EMI
Beethoven: "Eroica" Symphony (Szell/Cleveland) Sony Essential Classics
Are these "the best?" You won't find any two people who would agree. Are they
"among the best," there you could well find consensus from honest people not so
obsessed with their own preferences that they have never paid attention to what
anyone else likes, or says.
What this means, effectively, is that in addition to the websites and reviews
(and I run one, at www.classicstoday.com) you can find a tremendous amount of
good advice right here. I am a professional music critic, but I find it very
useful to hand out here because no one knows anything is such a vast realm as
that of classical music, and there are people here whose range of knowledge is
truly astonishing. There are also some who are simply crazy, of course.
So my suggestion to you, in order to get the most useful information, is not to
ask for "the best" of anything, but rather to ask for the "top several choices"
based on what people know or have observed about recordings of the piece in
question. Then all you need to do to see if there is a consensus is check out
which recordings make several lists.
It also would help very much if, rather than asking for the top 100 pieces of
most important pieces, you tell people what it is that YOU like, because the
idea is to help you find other pieces that you like. To should you how it works,
I will post another thread asking for opinions as to the best version of
something, and let's see if we can't arrive at a "consensus" recommendation for
one specific work.
Anyway, I think the resources available to you are tremendous. All you have to
do is use them efficiently.
Good luck, and happy listening!
Dave Hurwitz
David Hurwitz
I find it very useful to hang out here because no one knows everything in such a
vast realm as that of classical music, and there are people here whose range of
knowledge is truly astonishing.
DH
Rob
> listing the 50 or 100 most important classical pieces and/or the best
> recordings of those pieces?
It isn't the list I would make, but Naxos (awesome budget label) has a
list called "Building a Classical CD Collection. Go to Naxos.com and
look under their learning section. At the very least it should give an
idea of what is out there.
Rob
Matthew B. Tepper (posts from uswest.net are forged)
following letters to be typed in
news:MPG.19a41cf5b...@news.cis.dfn.de:
> Being fairly unfamiliar with classical music, I'm looking for a list
> [1] of suggested recordings/most essential pieces. My tastes tend to
> run towards full symphonies on the one hand, and some of the early
> madrigles and other sacred music of the medieval and rennaissance
> periods, but I still don't know much about them.
>
> Has there been a list compiled somewhere by a respected [2] source
> listing the 50 or 100 most important classical pieces and/or the best
> recordings of those pieces?
>
> Thanks!
Blah blah blah there is no royal road to learning, blah blah blah you are
going to have to work at it, blah blah blah.
--
Matthew B. Tepper: WWW, science fiction, classical music, ducks!
My personal home page -- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/index.html
My main music page --- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/berlioz.html
To write to me, do for my address what Androcles did for the lion
War is Peace. ** Freedom is Slavery. ** It's all Napster's fault!
David Hurwitz
>Blah blah blah there is no royal road to learning, blah blah blah you are
>going to have to work at it, blah blah blah.
>
>--
>Matthew B. Tepper
You'll have to excuse Matthew--he's been a little strange ever since the
accident...
Dave Hurwitz
Matthew B. Tepper (posts from uswest.net are forged)
following letters to be typed in news:70830087.00003790.038
@drn.newsguy.com:
Yes, the accident of my coming across a new Website called "Classics
Today"! ;--)
Rajeev Aloysius
> [1] of suggested recordings/most essential pieces. My tastes tend to
> run towards full symphonies on the one hand, and some of the early
> madrigles and other sacred music of the medieval and rennaissance
> periods, but I still don't know much about them.
>
> Has there been a list compiled somewhere by a respected [2] source
> listing the 50 or 100 most important classical pieces and/or the best
> recordings of those pieces?
>
> Thanks!
>
> --
> John Johnson
> Rolling Stone magazine, or some other similar publication. I wouldn't
> rely on John Doe's list, unless he happened to be a respected rock
> critic. Likewise, I'd like to look at lists compiled by respected
> people in the field of classical music.
>
> Hope this makes sense.
The first thing that came to my mind when reading your post was James
Jolly's Gramophone 100 (so shoot me!).
Here it is.
Gramophone Classical 100
------------------------
1. Bach - Solo Cello Suites. Pablo Casals (cello). EMI References.
2. Bach - Goldberg Variations (1981 recording). Glenn Gould (piano).
CBS Masterworks/Sony Classical.
3. Bach - Cantatas, Nos. 78, 106. Vienna Bach Guild Choir and
Orchestra/Felix Prohaska. Vanguard Classics.
4. Bartok - Concerto for Orchestra; Music for Strings, Percussion,
and
Celesta; Hungarian Sketches. CSO/Reiner. RCA Living Stereo.
5. Beethoven - Piano Concertos, Nos. 1-5. Wilhelm Kempff (piano),
BPO/Paul van Kempen. DG Dokumente.
6. Beethoven - Symphony No. 3, Leonore Overtures 2 & 3.
Philharmonia/Klemperer. EMI.
7. Beethoven - Symphonies, Nos. 5 & 7. VPO/C. Kleiber. DG The
Originals.
8. Beethoven - Symphonies, Nos. 5 & 7; etc. Philharmonic Symphony
Orchestra of New York/Toscanini. Pearl.
9. Beethoven - Symphony No. 6. Schubert - Symphony No. 5. VPO/Bohm.
DG
The Originals.
10. Beethoven - Symphony No. 9. Bayreuth Festival Chorus and
Orchestra/Furtwangler. EMI.
11. Beethoven - String Quartets, Nos. 12-16. Quartetto Italiano.
Philips.
12. Beethoven - Piano Sonatas, Nos. 1-32. Artur Schnabel. EMI
References.
13. Beethoven - Piano Sonatas, Nos. 27-32. Solomon. EMI References.
14. Beethoven - Fidelio. Philharmonia/Klemperer. EMI.
15. Berlioz - Les Troyens. Covent Garden Chorus and Orchestra/Davis.
Philips.
16. Brahms - Piano Concertos, Nos. 1 & 2. Emil Gilels (piano),
BPO/Jochum. DG The Originals.
17. Brahms - Piano Concerto No. 1; other works. Clifford Curzon
(piano), LSO/Szell. Decca The Classic Sound.
18. Brahms - Symphony No. 4. VPO/C. Kleiber. DG.
19. Brahms - German Requiem. Philharmonia/Klemperer. EMI.
20. Britten - War Requiem. LSO/Hickox. Chandos.
21. Britten - Peter Grimes. Covent Garden Chorus and
Orchestra/Britten. Decca.
22. Bruckner - Symphony No. 8. VPO/Karajan. DG.
23. Bruckner - Masses, Nos. 1-3. Bavarian RSO/Jochum. DG The
Originals.
24. Chopin - Piano Concerto No. 1; 4 Nocturnes; Ballade in G Minor;
Polonaise in A-Flat. Maurizio Pollini (piano), Philharmonia/Kletzki.
EMI.
25. Debussy - Orchestral Music. Concertgebouw/Haitink. Philips Duo.
26. Debussy - La mer; Prelude a l'apres-midi d'un faune. Ravel -
Daphnis and Chloe Suite No. 2; Bolero. BPO/Karajan. DG Galleria.
27. Debussy - Nocturnes: Nuages, Fetes; Prelude...; La mer; etc.
Philharmonia/Cantelli. Testament.
28. Debussy - Preludes, Books 1 & 2. Krystian Zimmerman (piano).
DG.
29. Debussy - Pelleas et Melisande. Yvonne Gouverne Choir; Symphony
Orchestra/Desormiere. EMI References.
30. Delius - Songs of Sunset; Over the Hills and Far Away; etc.
RPO/Beecham. EMI.
31. Dvorak - Cello Concerto. Tchaikovsky - Variations on a Rococo
Theme. Mstislav Rostropovich (cello), BPO/Karajan. DG The Originals.
32. Dvorak - Symphonies, Nos. 8 & 9. BPO/Kubelik. DG The Originals.
33. Elgar - Cello Concerto; Sea Pictures. Jacqueline du Pre (cello),
LSO/Barbirolli. EMI.
34. Elgar - Cello Concerto; Violin Concerto. Beatrice Harrison
(cello), Yehudi Menuhin (violin), LSO/Elgar. EMI.
35. Gershwin - Porgy and Bess. LPO/Rattle. EMI.
36. Grieg - Haugtussa; other songs. Anne Sofie von Otter (mez). DG.
37. Haydn - Piano Trios. Beaux Arts Trio. Philips.
38. Haydn - Piano Works. Alfred Brendel (piano). Philips.
39. Hildegard of Bingen. Columba aspexit; Ave, generosa; etc.
Gothic
Voices/Christopher Page. Hyperion.
40. Honegger - Symphonies, Nos. 2 & 3, "Liturgique." Stravinsky -
Concerto in D. BPO/Karajan. DG The Originals.
41. Janacek - Kata Kabanova. VPO/Mackerras. Decca.
42. Josquin Desprez. Missa Pange Lingua; Missa La sol fa re mi. The
Tallis Scholars/Phillips. Gimell.
43. Kern - Show Boat. London Sinfonietta/McGlinn. EMI.
44. Liszt - Piano Concertos, Nos. 1 & 2; Piano Sonata in B Minor.
Sviatoslav Richter (piano), LSO/Kondrashin. Philips Solo.
45. Mahler - Symphony No. 5. New Philharmonia/Barbirolli. EMI.
46. Mahler - Symphonies, No. 6 & No. 8. NYPO (No. 6), LSO (No.
8)/Bernstein. Sony Classical Bernstein Royal Edition.
47. Mahler - Symphony No. 9 (live digital recording). BPO/Karajan.
DG
Karajan Gold.
48. Mahler - Das Lied von der Erde. VPO/Walter. Decca.
49. Massenet - Werther. Chorus and Orchestra of the Paris
Opera-Comique/Cohen. EMI References.
50. Maw - Odyssey. CBSO/Rattle. EMI.
51. Mendelssohn - Symphony No. 3, "Scottish"; The Hebrides; A
Midsummer
Night's Dream, Overture and incidental music. LSO/Maag. Decca The
Classic Sound.
52. Mozart - Horn Concertos; Piano Quintet, K452. Dennis Brain
(horn),
Philharmonia/Karajan. EMI.
53. Mozart - Piano Concertos, Nos. 1-27. Murray Perahia (piano),
English
Chamber Orchestra. Sony Classical.
54. Mozart - Complete Edition, Vol 11: String Quintets, Nos. 1-6.
Arthur Grumiaux et al. Philips Mozart Edition.
55. Mozart - Le nozze di Figaro. VPO/E. Kleiber. Decca Grand Opera
Series.
56. Mozart - Don Giovanni. Philharmonia/Giulini. EMI.
57. Mozart - Idomeneo. English Baroque Soloists/Gardiner. Archiv.
58. Mozart - The Magic Flute. BPO/Beecham. Pearl.
59. Mussorgsky - The Complete Songs. Boris Christoff (bass). EMI.
60. Prokofiev - Symphonies, Nos. 1 & 5; Romeo and Juliet Suite No. 2;
etc.
BSO/Koussevitzky. RCA Gold Seal.
61. Prokofiev - Piano Sonata No. 7. Boulez - Piano Sonata No. 2.
Stravinsky - Petrushka: three movements. Webern - Piano Variations.
Maurizio Pollini (piano). DG The Originals.
62. Puccini - La boheme. RCA Victor Chorus and Orchestra/Beecham.
EMI.
63. Puccini - Tosca. Chorus and Orchestra of La Scala/de Sabata.
EMI.
64. Rachmaninov - The Complete Recordings. Fritz Kreisler (violin),
Sergey Rachmaninov (piano), Philadelphia Orchestra/Stokowski, Ormandy,
Rachmaninov. RCA Gold Seal.
65. Ravel - Piano Concerto in G Major. Rachmaninov - Piano Concerto
No. 4.
Arturo Benedetto Michelangeli (piano), Philharmonia/Gracis. EMI.
66. Ravel - Daphnis et Chloe. LSO/Monteux. Decca.
67. Rossini - Il viaggio a Reims. COE/Abbado. DG.
68. Schubert - Symphonies, Nos. 3, 5, & 6. RPO/Beecham.
69. Schubert - String Quartets, Nos. 14, "Death and the Maiden," &
15.
Busch Quartet. EMI References.
70. Schubert - Lieder, Vols. 1-3. Dietrich Fisher-Dieskau
(baritone),
Gerald Moore (piano). DG.
71. Schumann - Kreisleriana; etc. Vladimir Horowitz (piano). Sony
Classical.
72. Shostakovich - String Quartets, Nos. 1-15. Fitzwilliam Quartet.
Decca
Enterprise.
73. Sibelius - Symphonies, Nos. 3 & 5. LSO/Kajanus. Koch Historic.
74. Smetena - Ma vlast. Czech PO/Talich. Supraphon.
75. R. Strauss - Orchestral Works, Vol. 3: Metamorphosen; Eine
Alpensinfonie; etc. Dresden SK/Kempe. EMI.
76. R. Strauss - Also sprach Zarathustra; Ein Heldenleben.
CSO/Reiner.
RCA Living Stereo.
77. R. Strauss - Four Last Songs; etc. Elisabeth Schwarzkopf
(soprano),
Philharmonia/Ackermann. EMI References.
78. R. Strauss - Salome. VPO/Solti. Decca.
79. R. Strauss - Der Rosenkavalier. Philharmonia/Karajan. EMI.
80. Stravinsky - The Complete Edition. Various artists/Stravinsky.
Sony Classical.
81. Tchaikovsky - Francesca da Rimini; Hamlet Fantasy Overture. New
York
Stadium Orchestra/Stokowski. dell'Arte.
82. Tchaikovsky - Symphonies, Nos. 4-6. Leningrad PO/Mravinsky. DG.
83. Tchaikovsky - Symphony No. 5. Oslo Philharmonic/Jansons.
Chandos.
84. Tchaikovsky - Symphony No. 6. Russian National
Orchestra/Pletnev.
Virgin Classics.
85. Verdi - Aida. New Philharmonia/Muti. EMI.
86. Verdi - Otello. NBC Chorus and Symphony Orchestra/Toscanini.
RCA
Gold Seal.
87. Wagner - Die Meistersinger von Nurnberg. Bayreuth Festival
Chorus
and Orchestra/Karajan. EMI References.
88. Wagner - Der Ring des Nibelungen. VPO/Solti. Decca.
89. Walton - Symphony No. 1. Vaughan Williams - The Wasps: Overture.
LSO/Previn. RCA Gold Seal.
90. Webern - Complete Works, Opp. 1-31. Various artists. Sony
Classical.
91. Bruckner-Sym #4-Karl Bohm VPO Decca 425 036-2DM
92. Chopin, Grieg-Piano Ctos, Dinu Lipatti, Zurich Tonhalle
Orch/Ackerman;
Philharmonia Orch/Alceo Galliera EMI References CDH7-63497-2
93. Sibelius Violin Cto Prokofiev-Violin Cto No. 2 Strauss-Violin
Sonata in
E flat, Jascha Heifetz,Arpad Sandor Boston Symphony, Koussevitsky, LPO
Beecham Biddulph LAB018
94. Verdi-Falstaff NBC Symphony Orch Toscanini RCA Gold Seal GD60326
95. Wagner-Tristan Und Isolde Philharmonia Orch/Furtwangler EMI
CDS7-47322-8
96. The Art of Prima Donna-Joan Sutherland Decca 425 493-2DM2
97. Martha Argerich-Debut Recital/Chopin, Brahms, Prokofiev, Liszt,
Ravel,
DG Originalds 447 430-2GOR
98. New Year's Day Concert 1987-J. Strauss-VPO Karajan DG 419 66-2GH
99. David Oistrakh Plays Concertos-Bach,Beethoven,Brahms, Tschaikovsky
DG
Originals 447 427-2GOR2
100. Opera Arias-Enricu Caruso Nimbus Mono NI7803
Matthew B. Tepper (posts from uswest.net are forged)
letters to be typed in
> The first thing that came to my mind when reading your post was James
> Jolly's Gramophone 100 (so shoot me!).
>
> Here it is.
>
> Gramophone Classical 100
[snip]
> 100. Opera Arias-Enricu Caruso Nimbus Mono NI7803
Ah, the great Romanian tenor, I see.
Seriously, I'm pleasantly surprised to see as many as 13 items outside the
used-to-be-"big"-five conglomerates. It's easy to get the impression that
Gramophone is a fully-owned subsidiary of the BPI. Of course, Jolly Jim
knows who buys the adverts -- or at least used to do so.
David Hurwitz
>>>
>>>Blah blah blah there is no royal road to learning, blah blah blah you are
>>>going to have to work at it, blah blah blah.
>>>
>>>--
>>>Matthew B. Tepper
>>
>> You'll have to excuse Matthew--he's been a little strange ever since the
>> accident...
>
>Yes, the accident of my coming across a new Website called "Classics
>Today"! ;--)
>
You mean "The Royal Road to Learning.com" don't you?
Dave Hurwitz
Matthew B. Tepper (posts from uswest.net are forged)
mazzolata
> Being fairly unfamiliar with classical music, I'm looking for a list
> [1] of suggested recordings/most essential pieces. My tastes tend to
> run towards full symphonies on the one hand, and some of the early
> madrigles and other sacred music of the medieval and rennaissance
> periods, but I still don't know much about them.
>
> Has there been a list compiled somewhere by a respected [2] source
> listing the 50 or 100 most important classical pieces and/or the best
> recordings of those pieces?
>
> Thanks!
>
Here is one such list:
http://www.arkivmusic.com/classical/100.jsp
Many people will not agree with their selections, but that's true of any
list. One good thing is that these items seem to be low to mid price.
Joseph Vitale
news:28a37761.03081...@posting.google.com:
>
> The first thing that came to my mind when reading your post was James
> Jolly's Gramophone 100 (so shoot me!).
>
> Here it is.
>
> Gramophone Classical 100
I don't have any problems with this list except perhaps for the following:
> 22. Bruckner - Symphony No. 8. VPO/Karajan. DG.
A very good performance. But I fail to see the angelic light over it.
-Especially with the uncharacteristically scrappy playing of the VPO (to my
ears).
> 100. Opera Arias-Enricu Caruso Nimbus Mono NI7803
My problem is with the choice of transfer. I would think even the RCA
"soundtream" transfers would be more naturally listenable.
JV
Matthew B. Tepper (posts from uswest.net are forged)
letters to be typed in news:Xns93D7CA7CCC7...@63.240.76.16:
Well, the check from Nimbus cleared so they had to include *something*.
jeffc
"David Hurwitz" <David_...@newsguy.com> wrote in message
news:70817181.0...@drn.newsguy.com...
>
> It also would help very much if, rather than asking for the top 100 pieces
of
> most important pieces, you tell people what it is that YOU like, because
the
> idea is to help you find other pieces that you like.
It seemed clear to me he was asking for such a list precisely to help him
determine what he likes.
jeffc
"Rob" <rk...@travel-net.com> wrote in message
news:6eb3235e.03081...@posting.google.com...
>
> It isn't the list I would make, but Naxos (awesome budget label) has a
> list called "Building a Classical CD Collection. Go to Naxos.com and
> look under their learning section. At the very least it should give an
> idea of what is out there.
Great page Rob, thanks. Actually, I like a lot on that list! It's
different from most lists.