Bach Partitas
Bob Harper
Comparison to Perahia? Recommendations for other piano recordings? (How
is Feltsman? I quite like his other Bach.)
TIA.
Bob Harper
wkasimer
> Has anyone heard Andras Schiff's new recording on ECM? Thoughts?
> Comparison to Perahia? Recommendations for other piano recordings?
Weissenberg on EMI. I haven't heard Schiff's, but found Perahia
pretty but dull.
Bill
mandryka
singing legato line, and they bring out the dance in the music.
Weissenberg plays with a more detatched style.
If you want a singing line then for two of the partitas -- 1 and 4 --
my favourite is Fiorentino's CD.
In some moods I want that stacatto touch, and then I go to
Weissenberg, Gould and Tureck's early recording in her GPOC .
On Harpsichord -- Landowska for Partita 1 and the Leonhardt set are
the only two I know. I am glad to have both.
Is anyone going to say they like Arrau in this music?
td
Leave out the "but".
TD
td
> It depends what sort of style you want -- Perahia and Schiff play a
> singing legato line, and they bring out the dance in the music.
> Weissenberg plays with a more detatched style.
>
> If you want a singing line then for two of the partitas -- 1 and 4 --
> my favourite is Fiorentino's CD.
>
> In some moods I want that stacatto touch, and then I go to
> Weissenberg, Gould and Tureck's early recording in her GPOC .
What is unique in Tureck's recordings from the mid 1950s is the
intimate quality of the sound Peter Andry managed to capture. The
piano is close, but not oppressively so. Tureck responds by sending
her musical message "sotto voce", privately, intimately, to the
listener. I think this is a unique recording; ditto the Goldbergs from
this period.
TD
Rugby
Not heard Schiff. Do enjoy my Tipo.
Rugby
Alan Cooper
news:ba9ff638-995f-4bea...@a6g2000vbp.googlegroups.c
om:
> It depends what sort of style you want -- Perahia and Schiff
> play a singing legato line, and they bring out the dance in the
> music. Weissenberg plays with a more detatched style.
>
> If you want a singing line then for two of the partitas -- 1 and
> 4 -- my favourite is Fiorentino's CD.
I also like Fiorentino's Bach. Among complete sets of the partitas, I particularly
enjoy Tipo's and Zhu Xiao-Mei's. I also wouldn't want to be without Schepkin, who is
fun and interesting, although occasionally over the top. Perahia did nothing for me,
and while I have not heard the new Schiff set, I have long admired the Hungaroton
recital that includes #5, which must be among his earliest recordings.
AC
mandryka
Perahia’s Partita recording I can unreservedly recommend. It is
dramatic, joyful, colourful. I think that Parahia is the greatest
living Bach player who is not a Russian. (Try also his Keyboard
Concertos .)
Schiff is more complex. There are things which are really special in
his ECM recording – magical. For example, in Partita 4 he plays
Menuet
better than anyone else I know – and the Gigue is outstanding too.
And
the Ouverture is pretty special, dramatic. But in the slow movements
he has a tendency to drive the music too fast: maybe in time I will
learn to appreciate this.
Consider also Hewett’s set -- I like it a lot even though there is a
sort of nervousness about her style.
Feltsman I don't know at all.
mr.rapidan
Bernard Roberts on Nimbus gets the Penguin Rosette - does that rate,
here?
But now I'll have to look into Schiff's recordings and Perahia's.
William Sommerwerck
Well, his Beethoven piano sonatas are dirt-cheap and worth owning.
mandryka
I thought Bernard Roberts' set was the worst I have ever heard -- he
makes this music boring. And I was so disappointed as, in truth, these
Partitas are my most favourite piano pieces in the world (esp the 4th)
td
wrote:
> > Bernard Roberts on Nimbus gets the Penguin Rosette
> > -- does that rate, here?
>
> Well, his Beethoven piano sonatas are dirt-cheap and worth owning.
I only have them on Direct-to-Disc LPs in boxed sets. I recall them
not being cheap at the time.
TD
td
Perhaps you should write for the Penguin Guide?
TD
William Sommerwerck
> I recall them not being cheap at the time.
That's an earlier recording. The CD set contains later performances. (Do I
have Bernard Roberts confused with someone else? I don't think so.)
The sound of the LP set was fantastic. You could "see" the piano in front of
you -- it wasn't an undifferentiated blob of sound. Ambisonic recording, I
think.
td
wrote:
Correct.
But I wasn't aware that he had gone through all the sonatas again.
Perhaps they did digital backups?
TD
William Sommerwerck
>>> I recall them not being cheap at the time.
>> That's an earlier recording. The CD set contains later
>> performances. (I think.)
> But I wasn't aware that he had gone through all the sonatas
> again. Perhaps they did digital backups?
This is the current set...
http://www.arkivmusic.com/classical/album.jsp?album_id=12154
As far as I know, these are not the same performances as the DD set. The
copyright dates on the CDs are 1984 through 1987. It's highly unlikely
Nimbus would have started a DD cycle at the same time the Compact Disk
entered the market. And I remember hearing the DDs at Murray Zeligman's
apartment outside Baltimore, and I'm pretty sure that was around the time I
moved away from home (1977).
Anonymous
Charlie
Bob Harper
>
> Perahia�s Partita recording I can unreservedly recommend. It is
> dramaric, joyful, colourful. I think that Parahia is the greatest
> living Bach player who is not a Russian. (Try also his Keyboard
> Concertos .)
>
> Schiff is more complex. There are things which are really special in
> better than anyone else I know � and the Gigue is outstanding too. And
> the Ouverture is pretty special, dramatic. But in the slow movements
> he has a tendency to drive the music too fast: maybe in time I will
> learn to appreciate this.
>
> sort of nervousness about her style.
>
> Feltsman I don;t know at all.
I should have made clear tht I have (and like) Perahia's.
Bob Harper
mandryka
> mandryka wrote:
> > On Sep 27, 7:21 pm, Bob Harper <bob.har...@comcast.net> wrote:
> >> Has anyone heard Andras Schiff's new recording on ECM? Thoughts?
> >> Comparison to Perahia? Recommendations for other piano recordings? (How
> >> is Feltsman? I quite like his other Bach.)
>
> >> TIA.
>
> >> Bob Harper
>
> > I just saw no one has answered the initial post!
>
> > dramaric, joyful, colourful. I think that Parahia is the greatest
> > living Bach player who is not a Russian. (Try also his Keyboard
> > Concertos .)
>
> > Schiff is more complex. There are things which are really special in
> > better than anyone else I know – and the Gigue is outstanding too. And
> > the Ouverture is pretty special, dramatic. But in the slow movements
> > he has a tendency to drive the music too fast: maybe in time I will
> > learn to appreciate this.
>
> > sort of nervousness about her style.
>
> > Feltsman I don;t know at all.
>
> I should have made clear tht I have (and like) Perahia's.
>
>
> - Show quoted text -
Ah -- now I understand what you wanted.
Perahia -- colourful, warm.
Schiff -- less colourful. less warm.
But Schiff can sometimes make it dance.
Bob Harper
> On Sep 29, 1:47 am, Bob Harper <bob.har...@comcast.net> wrote:
>> mandryka wrote:
>>> On Sep 27, 7:21 pm, Bob Harper <bob.har...@comcast.net> wrote:
>>>> Has anyone heard Andras Schiff's new recording on ECM? Thoughts?
>>>> Comparison to Perahia? Recommendations for other piano recordings? (How
>>>> is Feltsman? I quite like his other Bach.)
>>>> TIA.
>>>> Bob Harper
>>> I just saw no one has answered the initial post!
>>> dramaric, joyful, colourful. I think that Parahia is the greatest
>>> living Bach player who is not a Russian. (Try also his Keyboard
>>> Concertos .)
>>> Schiff is more complex. There are things which are really special in
>>> better than anyone else I know � and the Gigue is outstanding too. And
>>> the Ouverture is pretty special, dramatic. But in the slow movements
>>> he has a tendency to drive the music too fast: maybe in time I will
>>> learn to appreciate this.
>>> sort of nervousness about her style.
>>> Feltsman I don;t know at all.
>> I should have made clear tht I have (and like) Perahia's.
>>
>> Bob Harper- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>
> Ah -- now I understand what you wanted.
>
> Perahia -- colourful, warm.
>
> Schiff -- less colourful. less warm.
>
> But Schiff can sometimes make it dance.
Thanks. Sounds worth trying.
Bob Harper
td
> mandryka wrote:
> > On Sep 27, 7:21 pm, Bob Harper <bob.har...@comcast.net> wrote:
> >> Has anyone heard Andras Schiff's new recording on ECM? Thoughts?
> >> Comparison to Perahia? Recommendations for other piano recordings? (How
> >> is Feltsman? I quite like his other Bach.)
>
> >> TIA.
>
> >> Bob Harper
>
> > I just saw no one has answered the initial post!
>
> > dramaric, joyful, colourful. I think that Parahia is the greatest
> > living Bach player who is not a Russian. (Try also his Keyboard
> > Concertos .)
>
> > Schiff is more complex. There are things which are really special in
> > better than anyone else I know – and the Gigue is outstanding too. And
> > the Ouverture is pretty special, dramatic. But in the slow movements
> > he has a tendency to drive the music too fast: maybe in time I will
> > learn to appreciate this.
>
> > sort of nervousness about her style.
>
> > Feltsman I don;t know at all.
>
> I should have made clear tht I have (and like) Perahia's.
How odd!
TD
Bob Harper
> On Sep 28, 8:47 pm, Bob Harper <bob.har...@comcast.net> wrote:
>> mandryka wrote:
>>> On Sep 27, 7:21 pm, Bob Harper <bob.har...@comcast.net> wrote:
>>>> Has anyone heard Andras Schiff's new recording on ECM? Thoughts?
>>>> Comparison to Perahia? Recommendations for other piano recordings? (How
>>>> is Feltsman? I quite like his other Bach.)
>>>> TIA.
>>>> Bob Harper
>>> I just saw no one has answered the initial post!
>>> dramaric, joyful, colourful. I think that Parahia is the greatest
>>> living Bach player who is not a Russian. (Try also his Keyboard
>>> Concertos .)
>>> Schiff is more complex. There are things which are really special in
>>> better than anyone else I know � and the Gigue is outstanding too. And
>>> the Ouverture is pretty special, dramatic. But in the slow movements
>>> he has a tendency to drive the music too fast: maybe in time I will
>>> learn to appreciate this.
>>> sort of nervousness about her style.
>>> Feltsman I don;t know at all.
>> I should have made clear tht I have (and like) Perahia's.
>
> How odd!
>
> TD
>
Only to you.
Bob Harper
mandryka
listen again to Schiff's ECM CD.
I have become totally smitten by the 6th Partita in Schiff's ECM set
-- I think it's a new high point in recorded piano performances of
this work.
Schiff's style is not as immediately appealing as many others --
Perahia is more instantly enjoyable. And so is Pletnev's Amsterdam
2004 performance. Schiff doesn't seduce you with a confidential,
intimate tone like Tureck's GPOC, or a dazzaling array of piano
colours.
But for me over several hearings I have begun to really dig Schiff's
art. There's drama, a very strong rhythmic sense. And sometimes --
like in the Sarabande of BWV 830 -- there's a sort of extraordinary
intensity that reminds me of Arrau at his most powerful (not in Bach
Partitas, unfortunately, but in the Lugano Schumann Fantasie, for
example.)
mandryka
after making the post.
This bloody software is completely non-intuative to me!
William Sommerwerck
> that I only notice after making the post.
I don't believe you can retrieve a UseNet post and alter. I could be wrong.
(Hope I am -- I often make mistakes I wish I could fix.)
Bob Lombard
A spellchecker will spot typos, as long as the typo doesn't form a word.
Otherwise, you can delete a post - where it hasn't already been
downloaded.
bl
Gerard
> Can someone PLEASE tell me how I can edit a typo that I only notice
> after making the post.
Do you mean after posting the post?
It cannot be done.
>
> This bloody software is completely non-intuative to me!
Which software?
Steve Emerson
Bob Harper <bob.h...@comcast.net> wrote:
> Has anyone heard Andras Schiff's new recording on ECM? Thoughts?
> Comparison to Perahia? Recommendations for other piano recordings? (How
> is Feltsman? I quite like his other Bach.)
Bob -- Can you e-mail me? I sent you something that may not have gotten
through.
Thx,
SE.
Bob Harper
It did. thanks, and forgive my lack of a reply. Life's been pretty
hectic for the last few weeks.
Bob Harper
Al Eisner
Years ago it was possible to delete one of your own posts. I have no
idea if this is still possible, since I've been using a rather limited
newsreader in recent years.
--
Al Eisner
Kip Williams
It hasn't been possible in the last decade or so. Sometimes if you
cancel a message, your newsreader will helpfully hide it from you, but
that's about it. As a general rule, anything you put out there -- usenet
or internet -- will be there forever, unless you're trying urgently to
find it for some reason, and then it's only hiding.
Kip W
Al Eisner
> On Sep 27, 2:21 pm, Bob Harper <bob.har...@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>> Has anyone heard Andras Schiff's new recording on ECM? Thoughts?
>> Comparison to Perahia? Recommendations for other piano recordings?
>
> Weissenberg on EMI. I haven't heard Schiff's, but found Perahia
> pretty but dull.
I was considering adding the Weissenberg Bach set to a Berkshire
order, but held off in part because of the extreme reactions (in
both directions) to it on rmcr. (It doesn't seem to be in stock
at the moment.) Are there any sound samples available on the web?
Amazon doesn't have any for this set, but does have snippets for
Partita #4 on the Great Pianists set. Is that the same performance?
As usual, the Amazon snippets are too brief. Of what I heard, only the
pace of the Aria bothered me a bit. Someone here said Weissenberg's
playing is similar to Gould's. I have a problem with Gould's clipped
approach in slow movements like the Sarabande, but Weissenberg apparently
takes this fast enough to keep it moving and avoid the problem.
How is the rest of the Weissenberg set, e.g., the Goldbergs?
--
Al Eisner
Bob Lombard
Haven't heard anything from a Weissenberg Bach set, but have heard
several Bach works in collections including multiple composers. He is
not a wishy-washy interpreter of Bach - or anyone else, for that matter.
His Bach is clean, well articulated, detailed, dynamically robust; not
pedantic, ecstatic where it ought to be and not elsewhere.
bl
mandryka
The EMI Bach is well worth knowing -- it has what is maybe the most
virtuosic performance of the Chromatic Fantasie and Italian Concerto
on
Piano.
AB R
Weissenberg is easily one of my favorite interpreters. Amazon.fr has
samples here:
http://www.amazon.fr/gp/product/B0025AER66/sr=1-1/qid=1254406986/ref=sr_digr_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1254406986&sr=1-1
Steve Emerson
<Pine.SOC.4.64.09...@flora01.slac.stanford.edu>,
Al Eisner <eis...@slac.stanford.edu> wrote:
> On Sun, 27 Sep 2009, wkasimer wrote:
>
> > On Sep 27, 2:21�pm, Bob Harper <bob.har...@comcast.net> wrote:
> >
> >> Has anyone heard Andras Schiff's new recording on ECM? Thoughts?
> >> Comparison to Perahia? Recommendations for other piano recordings?
> >
> > Weissenberg on EMI. I haven't heard Schiff's, but found Perahia
> > pretty but dull.
>
> I was considering adding the Weissenberg Bach set to a Berkshire
> order, but held off in part because of the extreme reactions (in
> both directions) to it on rmcr. (It doesn't seem to be in stock
> at the moment.) Are there any sound samples available on the web?
> Amazon doesn't have any for this set, but does have snippets for
> Partita #4 on the Great Pianists set. Is that the same performance?
Yes.
> As usual, the Amazon snippets are too brief. Of what I heard, only the
> pace of the Aria bothered me a bit. Someone here said Weissenberg's
> playing is similar to Gould's.
I don't recall that there is much similarity, although I can't say that
I've played them side by side.
> I have a problem with Gould's clipped
> approach in slow movements like the Sarabande, but Weissenberg apparently
> takes this fast enough to keep it moving and avoid the problem.
>
> How is the rest of the Weissenberg set, e.g., the Goldbergs?
I've never warmed at all to his Goldbergs, which seem steel-like and
devoid of charm. His Partitas I'm enormously fond of.
SE.
Simon Roberts
> <Pine.SOC.4.64.09...@flora01.slac.stanford.edu>,
> Al Eisner <eis...@slac.stanford.edu> wrote:
> I was considering adding the Weissenberg Bach set to a Berkshire
> order, but held off in part because of the extreme reactions (in
> both directions) to it on rmcr. (It doesn't seem to be in stock
> at the moment.) Are there any sound samples available on the web?
> Amazon doesn't have any for this set, but does have snippets for
> Partita #4 on the Great Pianists set. Is that the same performance?
> As usual, the Amazon snippets are too brief. Of what I heard, only
> the pace of the Aria bothered me a bit. Someone here said
> Weissenberg's playing is similar to Gould's.
You can listen to entire tracks for free at rhapsody.com (but not the
partitas, it seems - EMI Goldbergs yes. (Too bad they waste
EMI/Weissenberg space on his Beethoven cti with Karajan, one of the few
real duds of either musician.)
Simon
Al Eisner
Thanks, and thanks also to "AB R" for the link to the full track listing of
the EMI box at amazon.fr. The snippets are of limited use, but one very
nice feature is that all the track timings are given. (I had thought
there were 6 Partitas, but Weissenberg plays 7 of them.)
It happens that someone (probably illegally) has posted many of these at
youtube. (The "video" is just a static picture, e.g., Bach or Weissenberg --
it's amazing how he produces these sounds with his arms folded.) I've
listened to #1 and #6 (each is posted in two parts). The #1 is dated
1967, which I think may match the EMI box, although I've been unable to
find the recording information for the latter. The #6 isn't dated, but
the track times are an exact match to those given at amazon.fr for the
EMI box. The timing match isn't quite exact for #1, so perhaps this is
a different performance. By the way, also posted is a live 1984
performance of #4; I haven't listened to that.
In general, much of these performances are to my taste, and some of them --
especially the Sarabande from #1 and the Toccata from #6 are extraordinary.
On the other hand, a few of the faster movements (both Allemandes, perhaps
the Courante from #6 and the Gigue from #1) seem too fast to me. Perhaps
I'll get used to them. At the moment, including your comments on the
Goldbergs, I'm on the fence as to acquiring this. Since I'm particularly
interested in recordings of the Partitas, it remains on my "potential"
liot....Thanks again.
--
Al Eisner
mandryka
By the way, also posted is a live 1984
> performance of #4; I haven't listened to that.
>
> --
That one is particularly angry sounding and monochomatic I think.
Russ (not Martha)
> (I had thought there were 6 Partitas, but Weissenberg plays 7 of them.)
>
The '7th' is the Overture in the French Style in B Minor, BWV 831.
Russ (not Martha)
Steve Emerson
<Pine.SOC.4.64.09...@flora01.slac.stanford.edu>,
Al Eisner <eis...@slac.stanford.edu> wrote:
> Thanks, and thanks also to "AB R" for the link to the full track listing of
> the EMI box at amazon.fr. The snippets are of limited use, but one very
> nice feature is that all the track timings are given. (I had thought
> there were 6 Partitas, but Weissenberg plays 7 of them.)
As Russ seems to be saying -- Partita #6 (BWV 830), which begins CD3 of
this 3-disc box, is followed by eight tracks' worth of BWV 831, the
Ouverture francaise en si mineur.
> It happens that someone (probably illegally) has posted many of these at
> youtube. (The "video" is just a static picture, e.g., Bach or Weissenberg --
> it's amazing how he produces these sounds with his arms folded.) I've
> listened to #1 and #6 (each is posted in two parts). The #1 is dated
> 1967, which I think may match the EMI box, although I've been unable to
> find the recording information for the latter. The #6 isn't dated, but
> the track times are an exact match to those given at amazon.fr for the
> EMI box. The timing match isn't quite exact for #1, so perhaps this is
> a different performance.
EMI says every recording in the box, the Goldbergs, the six Partitas,
and the other three works, was made during 1966 and 1967 at the Salle
Wagram; engineer, the inevitable Paul Vavasseur.
> By the way, also posted is a live 1984
> performance of #4; I haven't listened to that.
>
> In general, much of these performances are to my taste, and some of them --
> especially the Sarabande from #1 and the Toccata from #6 are extraordinary.
> On the other hand, a few of the faster movements (both Allemandes, perhaps
> the Courante from #6 and the Gigue from #1) seem too fast to me. Perhaps
> I'll get used to them. At the moment, including your comments on the
> Goldbergs, I'm on the fence as to acquiring this. Since I'm particularly
> interested in recordings of the Partitas, it remains on my "potential"
> list.
I seem to remember the box was quite cheap when it appeared (which was
in 2000, not 2002 as Amazon U.S. claims); so one didn't hesitate to grab
it just for the Partitas, which always occupy 2 CDs anyway.
Alternative: Maria Tipo's highly lyrical treatment of the Partitas is of
interest and currently available in one of EMI UK's very cheap series
(Gemini?). Samples of 60 seconds' duration can be heard at jpc.de . Her
gorgeous, rubatinous (tm) Sarabandes could never be called "clipped."
Not at all like Weissenberg's set, but FWIW....
SE.
SE.
Rugby
> Alternative: Maria Tipo's highly lyrical treatment of the Partitas is of
> interest and currently available in one of EMI UK's very cheap series
> (Gemini?). Samples of 60 seconds' duration can be heard at jpc.de . Her
> gorgeous, rubatinous (tm) Sarabandes could never be called "clipped."
>
I adore hers.
Rugby
JohnGavin
wrote:
>
> - Show quoted text -
And he's as hard and unyielding as marble.
Al Eisner
With the Italian Concerto and the Chromatic Fantasy and Fugue.
I think I'm recalling correctly that I saw the set at Berkshire recently,
so perhaps it will return.
> Alternative: Maria Tipo's highly lyrical treatment of the Partitas is of
> interest and currently available in one of EMI UK's very cheap series
> (Gemini?). Samples of 60 seconds' duration can be heard at jpc.de . Her
> gorgeous, rubatinous (tm) Sarabandes could never be called "clipped."
Nor, I think, are Weissenberg's, at least not in the two partitias I
listened to.
> Not at all like Weissenberg's set, but FWIW....
And cheap at Amazon. My concern, however, is not with cost, but with
obtaining a set I would like to live with. (The only piano version
I currently have is Gould's, and I have mixed feelings about them.)
But you're right, I should make the decision regardless of the
Goldbergs. I'll try to listen to some Tipo excerpts.
--
Al Eisner