New Orfeo Furtwängler Vienna Concerts box (18 CDs)

[Randy Lane]

The 18 CD box from Orfeo containing Furtwängler concerts in Vienna that has ben available in Japan since January is finally ariving on Eurpoean and North American shores now.
Due out April 30th, the box is right now available for pre-ored from ImportCds for only $77.19:

http://www.importcds.com/music/2574338

The best listing of recordings is at Presto (price $103.50 USD):

http://www.prestoclassical.co.uk/search.php?searchString=4011790834023

(I would have pasted the contents here, but it does not copy well).

MDT priced even higher and much higher shipping (to USA at least)

http://www.mdt.co.uk/furtwangler-wilhelm-vienna-concerts-1944-54-orfeo-18cds.html

There's enough material here I either do not possess at all or would be very happy to have improved audio version of to justify the price, at the ImportCds rate anyway.

The Presto listing info is also helpful, here copied in full:

After Berlin, Vienna was the music centre to which the conductor Wilhelm Furtwängler had the closest artistic connections. Under his direction the Vienna Philharmonic made a whole series of radio recordings that have now, for the first time, been carefully edited under the auspices of the Furtwängler specialist Gottfried Kraus and released by Orfeo on 18 CDs. The series commences with recordings from 1944/45, including one of Mozart’s g-minor symphony K550 in which Furtwängler demonstrates his clear sense of form from the very first bars. Beethoven’s third 'Leonore' Overture and an excerpt from Schubert’s 'Rosamunde' music complete our selection from this, the earliest of the recording sessions. Several works are to be found more than once in this anthology. Thus, Beethoven’s Eroica can be compared in an early version from 1944 and a later recording from 1953, just as Bruckner’s Eighth can be compared in recordings from 1944 and 1954. Beethoven’s Ninth Symphony is offered no less than three times here – from the years 1951, 1952 and 1953 – a work that surely no other conductor could make into such an 'event', an experience of universal import, as could Wilhelm Furtwängler. This was also true of his Brahms interpretations, represented here by the first two symphonies, the 'Haydn' Variations, the Double Concerto and the 'German Requiem', which is sadly only extant in an incomplete recording from 1951. This is, incidentally, the only time in this collection that we hear Furtwängler conducting the Vienna Symphony Orchestra. Besides Irmgard Seefried and Dietrich Fischer-Dieskau – two vocal soloists whom Furtwängler admired and engaged repeatedly – we can hear the chorus of the Vienna Singakademie on this recording.

They also sing in Bach’s 'St Matthew Passion': in a partial recording from 1952 and in the famous performance of 1954 that was shortened by Furtwängler himself, but which is here released in a restored recording based on the original radio broadcast, without the cuts that were later made by record companies. Here as elsewhere in this collection, the acoustic heritage of the Viennese radio stations of the time has been restored using the best possible technological means available today. Even collector’s items such as the Piano Concertos K365 and 482 by Mozart, with Dagmar Bella and Paul Badura-Skoda, have probably never sounded better since they were first heard in the concert hall. Hence justice is done to Furtwängler’s timeles” style of music-making that unites different epochs, ranging from Gluck’s Overture to 'Iphigenie in Aulis' to Mahler’s 'Songs of a Wayfarer' and Furtwängler’s own Second Symphony – a work that despite all its late-Romantic echoes succeeds in attaining originality and a considerable emotional impact. This universality of Furtwängler has not found its match to this day.

[Gerard]

Randy Lane <randy...@gmail.com> typed:

> The 18 CD box from Orfeo containing Furtwängler concerts in Vienna
> that has ben available in Japan since January is finally ariving on
> Eurpoean and North American shores now.
> Due out April 30th, the box is right now available for pre-ored from
> ImportCds for only $77.19:
>
> http://www.importcds.com/music/2574338
>
> The best listing of recordings is at Presto (price $103.50 USD):
>
> http://www.prestoclassical.co.uk/search.php?searchString=4011790834023
>
> (I would have pasted the contents here, but it does not copy well).

Actually it copies like this:



Wilhelm Furtwängler Vienna Concerts 1944-54

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bach, J S:
St Matthew Passion, BWV244

rec. 9th April, 1952

Irmgard Seefried (soprano), Hildegard Rossel-Majdan (contralto), Julius Patzak
(Evangelist/tenor arias), Hans Braun (bass), Otto Wiener (Jesus)

Chor der Wiener Singakademie, Wiener Sangerknaben

St Matthew Passion, BWV244

rec. 15th April, 1954

Elisabeth Grümmer (soprano arias, Uxor Pilati and Ancilla I), Marga Höffgen
(alto arias and Ancilla II), Anton Dermota (tenor arias and Evangelist),
Dietrich Fischer-Dieskau (Jesus), Otto Edelmann (bass arias and Judas, Petrus &
Pilatus)

Chor der Wiener Singakademie, Wiener Sangerknaben

Beethoven:
Leonore Overture No. 2, Op. 72a

rec. June 1944

Symphony No. 3 in E flat major, Op. 55 'Eroica'

rec. 19th December, 1944

Symphony No. 9 in D minor, Op. 125 'Choral'

rec. 7th January, 1951

Irmgard Seefried (soprano), Rosette Anday (contralto), Julius Patzak (tenor),
Otto Edelmann (bass)

Chor der Wiener Singakademie

Symphony No. 9 in D minor, Op. 125 'Choral'

rec. 3rd February, 1952

Hilde Gueden (soprano), Rosette Anday (contralto), Julius Patzak (tenor), Alfred
Poell (bass)

Chor der Wiener Singakademie

Symphony No. 1 in C major, Op. 21

rec. 29th November, 1952

Symphony No. 3 in E flat major, Op. 55 'Eroica'

rec. 30th November, 1952

Symphony No. 9 in D minor, Op. 125 'Choral'

rec. 31st May, 1953

Irmgard Seefried (soprano), Hildegard Rossel-Majdan (contralto), Anton Dermota
(tenor), Paul Schoffler (bass)

Chor der Wiener Singakademie

Brahms:
Symphony No. 2 in D major, Op. 73

rec. 28th January, 1945

Ein Deutsches Requiem, Op. 45

rec. 27th January, 1952

Irmgard Seefried (soprano), Dietrich Fischer-Dieskau (baritone)

Wiener Symphoniker, Chor der Wiener Singakademie

Variations on a theme by Haydn for orchestra, Op. 56a 'St Anthony Variations'

rec. 27th January, 1952

Double Concerto for Violin & Cello in A minor, Op. 102

rec. 27th January, 1952

Willi Boskovsky (violin) Emanuel Brabec (cello)

Symphony No. 1 in C minor, Op. 68

rec. 27th January, 1952

Bruckner:
Symphony No. 8 in C minor

rec. 17th October, 1944

Symphony No. 8 in C minor

rec. 10th April, 1954

Franck, C:
Symphony in D minor

rec. 28th January, 1945

Furtwängler:
Symphony No. 2 in E minor

rec. 22nd February, 1953

Gluck:
Iphigénie en Aulide Overture

rec. 22nd February, 1953

Mahler:
Lieder eines fahrenden Gesellen (4 songs, complete)

rec. 30th November, 1952

Alfred Poell (baritone)

Mozart:
Symphony No. 40 in G minor, K550

rec. June 1944

Concerto for 2 Pianos and Orchestra No. 10 in E flat, K365

rec. 8th February, 1949

Piano Concerto No. 22 in E flat major, K482

rec. 27th January, 1952

Schubert:
Rosamunde, D797: Entr'acte No. 3

rec. June 1944


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[John Thomas]

On Apr 3, 2:21 pm, Randy Lane <randy.l...@gmail.com> wrote:
> The 18 CD box from Orfeo containing Furtwängler concerts in Vienna that has ben available in Japan since January is finally ariving on Eurpoean and North American shores now.
> Due out April 30th, the box is right now available for pre-ored from ImportCds for only $77.19:
>
> http://www.importcds.com/music/2574338
>
> The best listing of recordings is at Presto (price $103.50 USD):
>
> http://www.prestoclassical.co.uk/search.php?searchString=4011790834023
>
> (I would have pasted the contents here, but it does not copy well).
>
> MDT priced even higher and much higher shipping (to USA at least)
>

> http://www.mdt.co.uk/furtwangler-wilhelm-vienna-concerts-1944-54-orfe...

>
> There's enough material here I either do not possess at all or would be very happy to have improved audio version of to justify the price, at the ImportCds rate anyway.
>
> The Presto listing info is also helpful, here copied in full:
>
> After Berlin, Vienna was the music centre to which the conductor Wilhelm Furtwängler had the closest artistic connections. Under his direction the Vienna Philharmonic made a whole series of radio recordings that have now, for the first time, been carefully edited under the auspices of the Furtwängler specialist Gottfried Kraus and released by Orfeo on 18 CDs. The series commences with recordings from 1944/45, including one of Mozart’s g-minor symphony K550 in which Furtwängler demonstrates his clear sense of form from the very first bars. Beethoven’s third 'Leonore' Overture and an excerpt from Schubert’s 'Rosamunde' music complete our selection from this, the earliest of the recording sessions. Several works are to be found more than once in this anthology. Thus, Beethoven’s Eroica can be compared in an early version from 1944 and a later recording from 1953, just as Bruckner’s Eighth can be compared in recordings from 1944 and 1954. Beethoven’s Ninth Symphony is offered no less than three times here – from the years 1951, 1952 and 1953 – a work that surely no other conductor could make into such an 'event', an experience of universal import, as could Wilhelm Furtwängler. This was also true of his Brahms interpretations, represented here by the first two symphonies, the 'Haydn' Variations, the Double Concerto and the 'German Requiem', which is sadly only extant in an incomplete recording from 1951. This is, incidentally, the only time in this collection that we hear Furtwängler conducting the Vienna Symphony Orchestra. Besides Irmgard Seefried and Dietrich Fischer-Dieskau – two vocal soloists whom Furtwängler admired and engaged repeatedly – we can hear the chorus of the Vienna Singakademie on this recording.
>
> They also sing in Bach’s 'St Matthew Passion': in a partial recording from 1952 and in the famous performance of 1954 that was shortened by Furtwängler himself, but which is here released in a restored recording based on the original radio broadcast, without the cuts that were later made by record companies. Here as elsewhere in this collection, the acoustic heritage of the Viennese radio stations of the time has been restored using the best possible technological means available today. Even collector’s items such as the Piano Concertos K365 and 482 by Mozart, with Dagmar Bella and Paul Badura-Skoda, have probably never sounded better since they were first heard in the concert hall. Hence justice is done to Furtwängler’s timeles” style of music-making that unites different epochs, ranging from Gluck’s Overture to 'Iphigenie in Aulis' to Mahler’s 'Songs of a Wayfarer' and Furtwängler’s own Second Symphony – a work that despite all its late-Romantic echoes succeeds in attaining originality and a considerable emotional impact. This universality of Furtwängler has not found its match to this day.

Here's the listing at Amazon.com http://amzn.to/14OzgGQ ($104.81)
Looks like the booklet is in Japanese.

[td]

On Apr 3, 5:45 pm, "Gerard" <ghendrik-nospam_...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Randy Lane <randy.l...@gmail.com> typed:

If one thinks for a minute about the hell that was breaking all around
them in the mid 1940s, it's fairly amazing that anyone could still go
on stage and perform Schubert Rosamunde, or Beethoven's Eroica (were
they still thinking of victory, do you think?). And who knows which
Nazi big wig was sitting in a private box enjoying the music
thoroughly? Very ghoulish artefacts of a forgettable period in
history.


TD

[Bob Harper]

On 4/3/13 5:16 PM, td wrote:
(snip)

>> --------------------------------------------------------------------------- -----
>
> If one thinks for a minute about the hell that was breaking all around
> them in the mid 1940s, it's fairly amazing that anyone could still go
> on stage and perform Schubert Rosamunde, or Beethoven's Eroica (were
> they still thinking of victory, do you think?). And who knows which
> Nazi big wig was sitting in a private box enjoying the music
> thoroughly? Very ghoulish artefacts of a forgettable period in
> history.
>
>
> TD

Best forgotten, perhaps (though we should learn from history), but
certainly not forgettable.

Bob Harper

[music...@gmail.com]

On Wednesday, April 3, 2013 5:16:41 PM UTC-7, td wrote:
> .....

> If one thinks for a minute about the hell that was breaking all around
>
> them in the mid 1940s, it's fairly amazing that anyone could still go
>
> on stage and perform Schubert Rosamunde, or Beethoven's Eroica (were
>
> they still thinking of victory, do you think?). And who knows which
>
> Nazi big wig was sitting in a private box enjoying the music
>
> thoroughly? Very ghoulish artefacts of a forgettable period in
>
> history.

By December 1944, when the Eroica was recorded, I don't think anyone in Germany still expected to win the war - not even the Nazi High Command.

Forgettable period? Let's hope note; as Santayana said Those who cannot remember the past are doomed to repeat it.

And I'm sure we don't want that.

And I think "ghoulish" is the wrong word also: the 1942 Beethoven 9 is a remarkable document, the railing of a great humanist conductor against the circumstances.

My father chose the ending of that specific recording to be played at his funeral. And he spent several years of his life having people (many of them Germans) shooting guns, dropping bombs and launching torpedoes at him.

I don't think there was anything ghoulish about his choice.

[wagnerfan]

Actually considering the trash he has posted here, I would think
that Deacon would think it was a "forgettable" period in history.
Following his distorted logic throught to the nonsensical end , we
shouldn't see the great sports film Olympia by Riefenstahl with the
great Jesse Owens because the stands were filled with Nazis including
Hitler himself. And that throws out the classic Pelleas recorded
during the Nazi occupation under Desormieres since there could have
been Nazis in the recording booth. What a fool. Wagner fan

[Bob Harper]

On 4/3/13 8:30 PM, wagnerfan wrote:
(sniop)

>> I don't think there was anything ghoulish about his choice.
> Actually considering the trash he has posted here, I would think
> that Deacon would think it was a "forgettable" period in history.
> Following his distorted logic throught to the nonsensical end , we
> shouldn't see the great sports film Olympia by Riefenstahl with the
> great Jesse Owens because the stands were filled with Nazis including
> Hitler himself. And that throws out the classic Pelleas recorded
> during the Nazi occupation under Desormieres since there could have
> been Nazis in the recording booth. What a fool. Wagner fan

Oh, give it a rest, will ya?

Bob Harper

[Matthew B. Tepper]

wagnerfan <ivanm...@gmail.com> appears to have caused the following
letters to be typed in news:4ospl8pof8aupsul5...@4ax.com:

> On Wed, 3 Apr 2013 20:23:07 -0700 (PDT), music...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> By December 1944, when the Eroica was recorded, I don't think anyone in
>> Germany still expected to win the war - not even the Nazi High Command.
>>
>> Forgettable period? Let's hope note; as Santayana said Those who cannot
>> remember the past are doomed to repeat it.
>>
>> And I'm sure we don't want that.
>>
>> And I think "ghoulish" is the wrong word also: the 1942 Beethoven 9 is a
>> remarkable document, the railing of a great humanist conductor against
>> the circumstances.
>>
>> My father chose the ending of that specific recording to be played at
>> his funeral. And he spent several years of his life having people (many
>> of them Germans) shooting guns, dropping bombs and launching torpedoes
>> at him.
>>
>>I don't think there was anything ghoulish about his choice.
>
> Actually considering the trash he has posted here, I would think that
> Deacon would think it was a "forgettable" period in history. Following

> his distorted logic throught to the nonsensical end, we shouldn't see the

> great sports film Olympia by Riefenstahl with the great Jesse Owens
> because the stands were filled with Nazis including Hitler himself. And
> that throws out the classic Pelleas recorded during the Nazi occupation
> under Desormieres since there could have been Nazis in the recording
> booth. What a fool. Wagner fan

I'm sorry, but I also find the infamous March 1942* 9th difficult and
unpleasant to listen to, because of the audience full of despicable people.
Some folks would remind me that it was a protest. As such, it failed.

For me, the truly lasting Furtwängler 9ths are Philharmonia Lucerne, BPO
1937 (with a British chorus, in a hall which ironically was destroyed by
German bombs a few years later), VPO 31 May 1953 (I own but still haven't
heard the ICA Classics issue of the previous day's performance), and the
REAL 1951 Bayreuth performance, as issued by Orfeo.

Other great 9ths for me include, of course Weingartner/VPO, 1957 live
Klemperer on Testament (1961 on the same label not far behind), and several
Toscaninis -- of the latter, I've been finding myself drawn more and more
to the 1937 BBC performance. What a great year to have been in London!

* Remember, there is also one from April 1942, released relatively
recently on Archipel.

--
Matthew B. Tepper: WWW, science fiction, classical music, ducks!!
Read about "Proty" here: http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/proty.html
To write to me, do for my address what Androcles did for the lion
Opinions expressed here are not necessarily those of my employers.

[Gerard]

John Thomas <abras...@gmail.com> typed:

>
> Here's the listing at Amazon.com http://amzn.to/14OzgGQ ($104.81)
> Looks like the booklet is in Japanese.

Why does it look like that?

Because the only mentioned artists are:
"J.S. Bach (Artist), Badura-Skoda (Artist), Bella (Artist)"?

(Furtwängler not mentioned)

[Ed Romans]

On Thursday, April 4, 2013 9:13:26 AM UTC+1, Gerard wrote:
>Why does it look like that?

look at the images of the back cover

Ed

[td]

On Apr 3, 11:23 pm, musiccri...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Wednesday, April 3, 2013 5:16:41 PM UTC-7, td wrote:
> > .....
> > If one thinks for a minute about the hell that was breaking all around
>
> > them in the mid 1940s, it's fairly amazing that anyone could still go
>
> > on stage and perform Schubert Rosamunde, or Beethoven's Eroica (were
>
> > they still thinking of victory, do you think?). And who knows which
>
> > Nazi big wig was sitting in a private box enjoying the music
>
> > thoroughly? Very ghoulish artefacts of a forgettable period in
>
> > history.
>
> By December 1944, when the Eroica was recorded, I don't think anyone in Germany still expected to win the war - not even the Nazi High Command.

Not a statement that one can make with assurance.

> Forgettable period? Let's hope note; as Santayana said Those who cannot remember the past are doomed to repeat it.
>
> And I'm sure we don't want that.
>
> And I think "ghoulish" is the wrong word also: the 1942 Beethoven 9 is a remarkable document, the railing of a great humanist conductor against the circumstances.

I do believe that you are imputing feelings to the conductor which are
impossible to assert with any degree of confidence.

> My father chose the ending of that specific recording to be played at his funeral. And he spent several years of his life having people (many of them Germans) shooting guns, dropping bombs and launching torpedoes at him.

Perhaps he thought he would survive the grave?

> I don't think there was anything ghoulish about his choice.

Not knowing your father, this is impossible for me to comment.

TD

[td]

On Apr 4, 1:39 am, "Matthew B. Tepper" <oyþ@earthlink.net> wrote:
> wagnerfan <ivanmax...@gmail.com> appears to have caused the following
> letters to be typed innews:4ospl8pof8aupsul5...@4ax.com:

Yup.

Tepper has the right side of this discussion, a strange phenomenon, I
admit, as it is so unusual.

TD

[td]

Why would you say that, Bob. It only allows us all to see how this
pathetic creature's brain works. The end justifies the means. Tough
shit.

He would listen to a recording of Mozart serenades recorded at
Auschwitz while the Jews were being herded into the gas chambers.

It is amazing what little contact this person has with reality.

TD

[peter gutmann]

Perhaps another way of looking at Furtwangler during the war is to
consider that he was tortured by what was going on, and translated
this into uniquely angst-ridden interpretations. His wartime concerts
that were recorded nearly all exhibit a huge tension that transformed
his pre-war art and then dissipated later. To me the evidence of his
wartime concert recordings, rather than speculation as to his state of
mind, is more telling. I hear the proof in his art, which forms a
huge contrast with wartime recordings by amoralists. (And whether we
consider it misguided or not, Furtwangler claimed a genuine need to
remain in Germany and try to preserve its culture for the future.
While we admire Toscanini and others who fled, it was far easier to
hurl verbal condemnation (and have a flourishing career) from the safe
harbor of the free world than to try to work small deeds from within
and be exposed to constant danger.)

[wagnerfan]

Altough I certainly respect others revulsion about the extra musical
circumstances going on at the time -it really doesn't make any sense
to me at all. For example judging a performance by who was in the
audience at the time makes no sense to me whatsoever. First of all, we
don;t know who was in the audience - were they rabid Nazis who each
torturedJews, were they ordinary folk caught up in a regime they
couldn't fight and were trying to get a little experience of beauty
amidst all the horror? We don't know although we could certainly
speculate that many of the "despicable" audience were there for the
concerts after the war as well. Should we not listen to those as
well???? Should we not listen and experience any art that came out of
Germany from 1933-45??? Should we extend that ban to countries which
were controlled by Germany at the time?? i don't care and would hope I
am mature enough to separate the art from anything else going on - I
can certainly listen to Lemnitz or Lorenz or Bockelmann or Mengelberg
and appreciate their art whilst not forgetting that they could have
been lousy people. As Peter says it was harder to help from within -
Furtwangler himself was on the hit list just before the end of the war
and escaped at the last minute, Clemens Krauss was involved in a
network that helped Jews escape out of Germany, there are others.
Wagner fan

[td]

I think you will not find me hurling condemnation, Peter. I remain, however, mindful of the conditions under which WF was making music during the war. One cannot believe that his fervour in that period was entirely motivated by opposition to the Nazis or that it reflected his support for the cause. Both are possible, but we shall never penetrate his mind at this point. Imputing one or the other mindset is a mug's game.

At the same time I find it unaccetable not to remain aware ofthe wartime backdrop, as others seem to want to do.

What we do know is that WF willingly and often made music in Germany during WW II. In this respect he was not dissimilar to the hundreds of other German nationals who did so. The list is long but it includes Gieseking, Backhaus, Schwartzkopf, Karajan, et al. One would hardly have expected them to become streetcar drivers, or grocers, after all.

So, this is a touchy subject all around for everyone.

TD

[wagnerfan]

On Thu, 04 Apr 2013 08:44:57 -0400, wagnerfan <ivanm...@gmail.com>
wrote:

As a side note its so funny watching Leakin Deacon complain about
the Nazis when a cursory reading of the bigoted and racist remarks he
has posted here in the past shows that he would have been a WONDERFUL
Nazi!!! I guess Harper, who can't put two rational sentences together
without reaching for a Bible, forgot that. Its really too ironic.
Wagner fan

[Christopher Webber]

On 04/04/2013 13:52, td wrote:
> What we do know is that WF willingly and often made music in Germany during WW II. In this respect he was not dissimilar to the hundreds of other German nationals who did so. The list is long but it includes Gieseking, Backhaus, Schwartzkopf, Karajan, et al. One would hardly have expected them to become streetcar drivers, or grocers, after all.
>
> So, this is a touchy subject all around for everyone.

So it is: but is it not perhaps more respectful for 'everyone' around
now to keep our qualms to ourselves as to the moral culpability of these
great musicians? As you say, we can never penetrate their minds now they
are dead and gone, and it is both fruitless - and sanctimonious - to
speculate about the state of their consciences seventy years ago.

We can always vote with our ears, if we like, by not listening to their
performances on record. That is up to *our* consciences.

[Gerard]

Christopher Webber <zarz...@zarzuela.invalid.net> typed:

> On 04/04/2013 13:52, td wrote:
> > What we do know is that WF willingly and often made music in
> > Germany during WW II. In this respect he was not dissimilar to the
> > hundreds of other German nationals who did so. The list is long but
> > it includes Gieseking, Backhaus, Schwartzkopf, Karajan, et al. One
> > would hardly have expected them to become streetcar drivers, or
> > grocers, after all.
> >
> > So, this is a touchy subject all around for everyone.
>
> So it is: but is it not perhaps more respectful for 'everyone' around
> now to keep our qualms to ourselves as to the moral culpability of
> these great musicians? As you say, we can never penetrate their minds
> now they are dead and gone, and it is both fruitless - and
> sanctimonious - to speculate about the state of their consciences
> seventy years ago.

Fruitless it is.
But yet it always causes long threads in RMCR. Fruitless threads, of course.

[wagnerfan]

Of course we can - the point is to keep the artists achievements and
their persona in proper perspective - it goes without saying that to
call the whole period "forgettable" is about as far from reality as
possible. Far from being forgettable it may arguably the most
discussed and examined period on history. Closer examination could
actually alter our perspectives on the artists motives---if thats
important to the listener. Wagner fan

[td]

Notice the change in name.

This little opera queen is so conflicted he goes through "personna" faster than a quick change artist on the vaudeville stage.

Best ignored.

TD

[J.Martin]

> Altough I certainly respect others revulsion about the extra musical
> circumstances going on at the time -it really doesn't make any sense
> to me at all. For example judging a performance by who was in the
> audience at the time makes no sense to me whatsoever.

I can understand that. But I would add that for every person who
feels revulsion at the circumstances of the March '42 9th, there is
another who finds it fascinating for the same reasons. Given that
there are probably a half dozen better-played, better-sung, and better-
recorded Furtwangler 9ths, it's hard to think of another reason people
would continue to listen to the '42 version.

Many of the other wartime performances strike me as much more
successful on a purely musical level. I will be very interested to
hear how this Eroica in this set sounds as compared to the recent SACD
hybrid reissue on Tahra, which I thought was a remarkable improvement
over the M&A and other versions I've heard.

[John Thomas]

Thanks, Ed :)

[wagnerfan]

Certainly for better or worse its the extra musical aspects that
attract many to hear that 1942 9th (at least once!!!). I am also
interested in that Eroica - Tahra does very good work so it will
interesting hear the Orfeo set (which I will get since I find this
conductor endlessly fascinating - also the greatest Wagner conductor I
have ever heard). Wagner fan

[Mort]

td wrote:
> On Apr 3, 5:45 pm, "Gerard" <ghendrik-nospam_...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> Randy Lane <randy.l...@gmail.com> typed:
>>

>>> The 18 CD box from Orfeo containing Furtw�ngler concerts in Vienna

>>> that has ben available in Japan since January is finally ariving on
>>> Eurpoean and North American shores now.
>>> Due out April 30th, the box is right now available for pre-ored from
>>> ImportCds for only $77.19:
>>
>>> http://www.importcds.com/music/2574338
>>
>>> The best listing of recordings is at Presto (price $103.50 USD):
>>
>>> http://www.prestoclassical.co.uk/search.php?searchString=4011790834023
>>
>>> (I would have pasted the contents here, but it does not copy well).
>>
>> Actually it copies like this:
>>

>> Wilhelm Furtw�ngler Vienna Concerts 1944-54

>>
>> --------------------------------------------------------------------------- -----
>> Bach, J S:
>> St Matthew Passion, BWV244
>>
>> rec. 9th April, 1952
>>
>> Irmgard Seefried (soprano), Hildegard Rossel-Majdan (contralto), Julius Patzak
>> (Evangelist/tenor arias), Hans Braun (bass), Otto Wiener (Jesus)
>>
>> Chor der Wiener Singakademie, Wiener Sangerknaben
>>
>> St Matthew Passion, BWV244
>>
>> rec. 15th April, 1954
>>

>> Elisabeth Gr�mmer (soprano arias, Uxor Pilati and Ancilla I), Marga H�ffgen

>> Furtw�ngler:

>> Symphony No. 2 in E minor
>>
>> rec. 22nd February, 1953
>>
>> Gluck:

>> Iphig�nie en Aulide Overture

>>
>> rec. 22nd February, 1953
>>
>> Mahler:
>> Lieder eines fahrenden Gesellen (4 songs, complete)
>>
>> rec. 30th November, 1952
>>
>> Alfred Poell (baritone)
>>
>> Mozart:
>> Symphony No. 40 in G minor, K550
>>
>> rec. June 1944
>>
>> Concerto for 2 Pianos and Orchestra No. 10 in E flat, K365
>>
>> rec. 8th February, 1949
>>
>> Piano Concerto No. 22 in E flat major, K482
>>
>> rec. 27th January, 1952
>>
>> Schubert:
>> Rosamunde, D797: Entr'acte No. 3
>>
>> rec. June 1944
>>
>> --------------------------------------------------------------------------- -----
>
> If one thinks for a minute about the hell that was breaking all around
> them in the mid 1940s, it's fairly amazing that anyone could still go
> on stage and perform Schubert Rosamunde, or Beethoven's Eroica (were
> they still thinking of victory, do you think?). And who knows which
> Nazi big wig was sitting in a private box enjoying the music
> thoroughly? Very ghoulish artefacts of a forgettable period in
> history.
>
>
> TD
>

Hi,

There is available a 1944 recording, in genuine stereo, of Walter
Gieseking and orchestra playing a Beethoven piano concerto, where one
can hear the sound of anti-aircraft guns in the background. Even art
should have a certain amount of morality.

Mort Linder

[hiker_rs]

On Apr 4, 12:17 pm, wagnerfan <ivanmax...@gmail.com> wrote:

>   Certainly for better or worse its the extra musical aspects that
> attract many to hear that 1942 9th (at least once!!!).

With all the discussion about it, it's good to keep in mind that the
1942 9th is NOT actually in the 18 CD box hypothetically under
discussion.

Rich

[cphillip...@yahoo.com]

Anyone have the set yet? I am an avid Furtwängler collector but have most of the items but I am interested on whether or not there is an improvement in sound quality.

Phillip

[J.Martin]

Right... which is just fine with me. Taking a closer look at what's
in the new box, I see that I do have two of the three 9ths: the
5/30/53 on DG, and the 2/3/52 on M&A. But I don't believe I have
heard the 1-7-51. Curiously, I think I also have a 9th on Orfeo with
the VPO from August 1951 at Salzburg, which for whatever reasons seems
not to be in the new box.

I've also not heard this St Matthews Passion material, nor the 1954
Bruckner 8, so there is something to look forward to!