Giulini's Missa Solemnis
Jimmy Doster
Solemnis on EMI. From what I can tell, it appears that it has just recently
been re-released and is available as an import in the U.S. However, it
doesn't appear to come with any coupling, as did the earlier release. Is
there any reason for me to buy the newer release rather than the older one?
I think they cost about the same, so price isn't a factor.
Thanks,
J. Doster
Simon Roberts
: I'm thinking about purchasing Giulini's recording of Beethoven's Missa
Until someone who knows for sure answers, try this: if the remastering
date is the same on both (the first is 1990) they will almost certainly
sound exactly the same; even if not, they will probably sound the same
because more EMI remasterings do than don't (or so my experience with them
tells me). If they are the same mastering, the old issue makes more sense
because it comes with a recording of the C major mass (which I think is a
far better performance than the Missa Solemnis, which I don't like at all
-- which is neither here nor there, of course).
Simon
C. N. Chew
>
> I'm thinking about purchasing Giulini's recording of Beethoven's Missa
> Solemnis on EMI. From what I can tell, it appears that it has just recently
> been re-released and is available as an import in the U.S. However, it
> doesn't appear to come with any coupling, as did the earlier release. Is
> there any reason for me to buy the newer release rather than the older one?
I know of two releases, one coupled with Goennenwein's recording of
Mozart's C minor mass and the other coupled with Giulini's recording of
Beethoven's C major mass. The latter would appear to be the more
attractive coupling; the Missa Solemnis itself seems to be the same
transfer. I don't myself think that Giulini's recording of the Missa
Solemnis is at all what one might have hoped it to be. I would have
liked to see him record the piece again, but a number of concert
performances that he scheduled some years ago were cancelled and other
works substituted. Perhaps, like Furtwaengler before him, he felt
daunted by the piece.
Naun.
Jimmy Doster
Simon Roberts wrote in message <6offbf$ksh$1...@netnews.upenn.edu>...
>Jimmy Doster (jdo...@sprynet.com) wrote:
>: I'm thinking about purchasing Giulini's recording of Beethoven's Missa
... the old issue makes more sense
>because it comes with a recording of the C major mass (which I think is a
>far better performance than the Missa Solemnis, which I don't like at all
>-- which is neither here nor there, of course).
>
>Simon
The only recording of the Missa Solemnis I have is with Gardiner. I like it
well enough, but I want to get a different perspective on this piece,
preferrably non-HIP and a little slower. Is there something along these
lines that is more recommendable than the Giulini? Would Klemperer be a
better choice?
J. Doster
Simon Roberts
: The only recording of the Missa Solemnis I have is with Gardiner. I like it
: well enough, but I want to get a different perspective on this piece,
: preferrably non-HIP and a little slower. Is there something along these
: lines that is more recommendable than the Giulini? Would Klemperer be a
: better choice?
Much better, I think, though I don't care for his soloists (or Giulini's
really); it's much more taut, incisive and alive than Giulini's and well
enough recorded. I would also strongly recommend Bernstein's Sony
recording, which has a degree of intensity and fervor (not to mention
sheer excitement) not found elsewhere in stereo. And if you do mono,
Toscanini 1940 or 1953 may marginally be the best, period. Giulini sits
pretty low on my list.
Simon
so...@ix.netcom.com
either, but I would say that it represents a good performance if you hear
the the work in the tradition of slow, reverential church music. I'd say
the same about the C-Major Mass with which it's coupled.
I think the EMI Klemperer is one of the greatest Beethoven recordings.
Unless you are set on the Giulini, I would recommend that you consider
the Klemperer. BTW, it is often faster than many other recordings in the
bins. But it is typical Klemperer in that he stubbornly allows the music
to accumulate tension and power without overt interference. Sometimes
this seems stiff and contrarian. In the Missa, it complements the span
and power of the work.
I would also recommend consideration of the Kubelik live performance on
Orfeo (BRSO '77). The Gloria is a really rip-roaring affair, quite
exciting but, of course, lacking Klemperer's weight. I like the Kubelik
for its energy as well as the lyricism of the gentle moments.
--Harold Sonenklar
Tansal
>The only recording of the Missa Solemnis I have is with Gardiner. I like it
>well enough, but I want to get a different perspective on this piece,
>preferrably non-HIP and a little slower. Is there something along these
>lines that is more recommendable than the Giulini? Would Klemperer be a
>better choice?
Personally, don't like Klemperer too much, in general. How about
Karajan? He has made at least three recordings of the Missa Solemnis,
however, and I'll defer to others to make comparisons on this issue.
I have the DG Masters 445 543-2 Digital Stereo recording with the
Berlin Philharmonic, Lella Cuberli, Trudeliese Schmidt, Vinson Cole,
José van Dam, Wiener Singverein, from 1986. It comes coupled with
Mozart's Coronation Mass with the Vienna Philharmonic, Kathleen
Battle, Trudeliese Schmidt, Gösta Winbergh, Ferruccio Furlanetto,
Wiener Singverein. If it isn't a two-fer, it's pretty close in $.
-- Tansal
My e-mail address is as follows: the first two letters of my name;
numbers two, three, eight; the at symbol; the initials of new york
university; a period or dot; the first three letters of education.
Tony Movshon
si...@dept.english.upenn.edu (Simon Roberts) writes:
> Jimmy Doster (jdo...@sprynet.com) wrote:
> : The only recording of the Missa Solemnis I have is with Gardiner. I like it
> : well enough, but I want to get a different perspective on this piece,
> : preferrably non-HIP and a little slower. Is there something along these
> : lines that is more recommendable than the Giulini? Would Klemperer be a
> : better choice?
>
> really); it's much more taut, incisive and alive than Giulini's and well
> enough recorded. I would also strongly recommend Bernstein's Sony
> recording, which has a degree of intensity and fervor (not to mention
> sheer excitement) not found elsewhere in stereo. And if you do mono,
> Toscanini 1940 or 1953 may marginally be the best, period. Giulini sits
> pretty low on my list.
Giulini is somewhat higher on my list than Simon's; Giulini's approach
is reflective, calm, reverent, and very different from the other
excellent performances Simon names. I find it effective and in strong
contrast to the more dramatic approaches; pace Simon, I find the
singing to be quite beautiful.
All that said, perhaps the most remarkable Missa I have heard is
Szell's in the Cleveland Orchestra's Szell centenary box -- white hot
and dramatic. Bernstein's NY recording is almost as exciting, but
rather ragged in spots. Though Klemperer's recording has all his usual
virtues, in some hard-to-define way I find it more admirable than
moving. Too much edifice, not enough feeling.
Tony Movshon
Center for Neural Science New York University
http://www.cns.nyu.edu mov...@nyu.edu
GregF NC
The one with Wunderlich is very good.
I haven't heard it, but the Levine is supposed to be exceptional.
Greg F(in North Carolina)
Simon Roberts
: Personally, don't like Klemperer too much, in general. How about
: Karajan? He has made at least three recordings of the Missa Solemnis,
: however, and I'll defer to others to make comparisons on this issue.
: I have the DG Masters 445 543-2 Digital Stereo recording with the
: Berlin Philharmonic, Lella Cuberli, Trudeliese Schmidt, Vinson Cole,
: José van Dam, Wiener Singverein, from 1986. It comes coupled with
: Mozart's Coronation Mass with the Vienna Philharmonic, Kathleen
: Battle, Trudeliese Schmidt, Gösta Winbergh, Ferruccio Furlanetto,
: Wiener Singverein. If it isn't a two-fer, it's pretty close in $.
There are four: EMI 1958 (recently issued by Testament), DG c. 1966, EMI
c. 1955, and the one you have. His conception's much the same throughout;
it's the differences in execution and recorded sound that are dispositive
for me. The Testament is too expensive and has rather drab sound; both
factors rule that one out unless you're interested in the interview with
Schwarzkopf or want Karajan's bland Mozart 38. The first DG is the worst,
mainly because of the sound; the soloists are far too close, and no choir
should be recorded as close as this -- it sounds at times as though there
are only about ten people in it -- and what's more, it's a pretty bad
choir to begin with (too bad all four recordings use it) and thus benefits
from being as far from the microphones as possible. That happens in the
second EMI with a vengeance: basses are often inaudible. But the soloists
are properly distanced, have beautiful voices and at times create magical
effects matched nowhere else (try the et incarnatus est or Van Dam's
high notes in the benedictus). The DG soloists aren't in this league,
though it has the best sound of any of these four. Of them, my favorite
is the second EMI, which blazes a bit more brightly than the rest. Of
course, you still have to like what he does with it -- there are, for
instance, some oddly fast and slow tempi to contenc with.
Simon
Atoddk
>Of them, my favorite
>is the second EMI, which blazes a bit more brightly than the rest. Of
>course, you still have to like what he does with it -- there are, for
>instance, some oddly fast and slow tempi to contenc with.
And you also have to contenc with the fact that that one has been deleted by
EMI. I looked for it last time this subject came up, and I ended up settling
for its digital DG successor, with its odd break between discs (not that I'm
not grateful for a "bonus" performance of Mozart's Coronation Mass, but I think
I would have preferred that that fill the unused portion of disc two, rather
than pushing the Missa Solemnis down to track 7 on disc one). Perhaps Tansal
has access to better second-hand store than I do.
Todd K
Koontz Christopher Noel
> Jimmy Doster (jdo...@sprynet.com) wrote:
> : preferrably non-HIP and a little slower. Is there something along these
> : lines that is more recommendable than the Giulini? Would Klemperer be a
> : better choice?
> Much better, I think, though I don't care for his soloists (or Giulini's
> really); it's much more taut, incisive and alive than Giulini's and well
> enough recorded. I would also strongly recommend Bernstein's Sony
> recording, which has a degree of intensity and fervor (not to mention
> sheer excitement) not found elsewhere in stereo. And if you do mono,
> Toscanini 1940 or 1953 may marginally be the best, period. Giulini sits
> pretty low on my list.
Any opinions on the Tate/ECO Missa? Is it worth the $7 I can get it for
at a local second-hand shop?
Chris
Simon Roberts
: Any opinions on the Tate/ECO Missa? Is it worth the $7 I can get it for
: at a local second-hand shop?
It's a lot better -- more taut, incisive, etc. -- than I would have
expected given the only other Beethoven of his I've heard, a very slow
symphony 7 coupled with an even slower Consecration of the House overture
which seems reluctant to move from one note to the next. The "in gloria
dei patris" fugue is slower than usual, but it should be: it's allegretto,
not presto (Karajan). If you like the idea of a performance with
small-scale forces (chamber choir and chamber orchestra) that's not HIP
and which, while it doesn't quite storm the heavens, is nevertheless
exciting on its own terms, I would say don't hesitate. The only drawbacks
as far as I'm concerned are the female soloists: Vaness's relentless
fluffy vibrato and Meier's ugly tone surely don't belong in this sort of
performance (and if I had my way, they wouldn't be found in any other sort
either....); but they're not bad enough to disqualify it: it's survived
every cull I've done for recordings of this piece.
Simon
C. N. Chew
>
> Any opinions on the Tate/ECO Missa? Is it worth the $7 I can get it for
> at a local second-hand shop?
Definitely worth a try I think. On the evidence of this recording and a
disc he did for EMI of string orchestra arrangements of the op. 95
quartet and the Grosse Fuge Tate is one of the most profound
Beethovenians around today. Jose-Luis Garcia's solo in the Benedictus is
particularly beautiful.
Naun.