MEGAPOLL - Greatest Pianists of the 20th Century
MT
Dinu Lipatti
Artur Schnabel
Alfred Cortot
Artur Rubinstein
Sviatoslav Richter
Yves Nat
Mieczyslav Horszowski [not included but I insist]
Ignaz Friedman
Walter Gieseking
Claudio Arrau
Most underrated 10:
Witold Malcuzynski
Samson François
Ivan Moravec
Dino Ciani
Mieczyslav Horszowski
Yves Nat
Harold Bauer
Julius Katchen
Rudolf Firkusny
Solomon Cutner
Most overrated 10:
Arturo Benedetti Michelangeli
Emil Gilels
Volodya Horowitz
Glenn Gould
Martha Argerich
Wanda Landowska
Sergei Rachmaninoff
Van Cliburn
mt
Paolo Pesenti
>
> 2) The 10 Most Neglected Pianists of the 20th Century - Please list 10
> pianists (At least 1, no more than 10) who are not in the Philips list
> (below), but who you believe should have been included, numbered from 1 (most
> neglected) to 10.
1 Busoni
2 Petri
3 Berman
4 Sokolov
5 Nat
6 Pogorelich
7 Novaes
8 Ciani
>
> 3) The 10 Most Over-Rated Pianists of the 20th Century - Please list 10
> pianists (At least 1, no more than 10) who you feel should not have been
> included in the Philips list (below), numbered from 1 (most over-rated) to
> 10.
2 Lyubov Bruk & Mark Taimanov
8 Christoph Eschenbach
6 Leon Fleisher
5 Nelson Freire
3 Ingrid Haebler
7 Byron Janis
1 André Previn
4 André Watts
Matthew B. Tepper
jerem...@my-dejanews.com pondered what I'm pondering as follows...
>
>Philips (sponsored by Steinway & Sons) has begun issuing its series
>"Great Pianists of the 20th Century." I propose a poll for our
>newsgroup, consisting of the following three categories:
>
>1) The 10 *Truly* Greatest Pianists of the 20th Century - I have listed
>the 71 entries (below)that Philips has included in their selection
>(there are 74 pianists altogether, 71 solo pianists and 2 sets of
>duo-pianists). Select 10 (At least 1, no more than 10) from the list,
>or write in your own candidates, numbered from 1 (best) to 10.
1. Ferruccio Busoni
2. Ferruccio Busoni
3. Ferruccio Busoni
4. Ferruccio Busoni
5. Ferruccio Busoni
6. Ferruccio Busoni
7. Ferruccio Busoni
8. Ferruccio Busoni
9. Ferruccio Busoni
10. Ferruccio Busoni
(to make up for the fact that the pinhead in charge of the project at
Philips unaccountably omitted him completely)
>2) The 10 Most Neglected Pianists of the 20th Century - Please list 10
>pianists (At least 1, no more than 10) who are not in the Philips list
>(below), but who you believe should have been included, numbered from 1
>neglected) to 10.
1. Ferruccio Busoni
2. Ferruccio Busoni
3. Ferruccio Busoni
4. Ferruccio Busoni
5. Ferruccio Busoni
6. Ferruccio Busoni
7. Ferruccio Busoni
8. Ferruccio Busoni
9. Ferruccio Busoni
10. Ferruccio Busoni
(Well, I'd say that being left out of the Philips project by some
pinhead counts as "neglect," wouldn't you?)
>3) The 10 Most Over-Rated Pianists of the 20th Century - Please list 10
>pianists (At least 1, no more than 10) who you feel should not have
>been included in the Philips list (below), numbered from 1 (most
>over-rated) to 10.
1. Glenn Gould
2. Alfred Cortot
3. Claudio Arrau
4. André Previn
5. Geza Anda
6. André Watts
7. Elly Ney
8. Mitsuko Uchida
And that's all I can think of right now....
--
Matthew B. Tepper: WWW, science fiction, classical music, ducks!
My personal home page -- http://www.deltanet.com/~ducky/index.htm
My main music page --- http://www.deltanet.com/~ducky/berlioz.htm
And my science fiction club's home page --- http://www.lasfs.org/
To write to me, do for my address what Androcles did for the lion
John Grabowski
>
> Greatest 10:
>
> Dinu Lipatti
> Artur Schnabel
> Alfred Cortot
> Artur Rubinstein
> Sviatoslav Richter
> Yves Nat
> Mieczyslav Horszowski [not included but I insist]
> Ignaz Friedman
> Walter Gieseking
> Claudio Arrau
Except for Nat and Friedman, whom I've never heard, I'll concur with
that.
> Most underrated 10:
Fats Waller
Jess Stacy
Bud Powell
Teddy Wilson
Liz Gorrill
William Albright
> Most overrated 10:
Billy Joel
Liberace
Yanni
John Tesh
...Hey, no one said it had to be classical. :-)
John
--
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
The great man is he who in the midst of the crowd keeps with perfect
sweetness the independence of solitude.
Ralph Waldo Emerson
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Francesco Giovannoni
jerem...@my-dejanews.com wrote in message
<78bdr7$2vh$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>...
>Philips (sponsored by Steinway & Sons) has begun issuing its series "Great
>Pianists of the 20th Century." I propose a poll for our newsgroup,
consisting
>of the following three categories:
>
>1) The 10 *Truly* Greatest Pianists of the 20th Century - I have listed the
71
>entries (below)that Philips has included in their selection (there are 74
>pianists altogether, 71 solo pianists and 2 sets of duo-pianists). Select
10
>(At least 1, no more than 10) from the list, or write in your own
candidates,
>numbered from 1 (best) to 10.
I have a criterion here: I won't go too much into those pianists who as
pianists per se did really well, but I will tend to take more into account
those who actually did bring a new understanding of the repertoire. As
Busoni said, there are those pianists who choose to present the music
they're playing and those who choose to present themselves. thus, pianists
with limited repertoire such as Horowitz and Michelangeli, who keep playing
their warhorses are not in the top 10, although pianistically speaking, I
guess would qualify. Secondo caveat for the first list: very few historical
pianists have enjoyed thebenefits of a representative discography. Since the
info on them is somewhat incomplete, I choose not to include them.
Here are my top 10, those to whom I generally return, not necessarily in
order:
- Richter
- Backhaus
- Schnabel
- Edwin Fischer
- Gilels
- Arrau
- Cortot
- Pollini
- Rubinstein
- Gieseking
Underrated by "the Great Pianists"
- Bartok
- Berman
- Levitsky
- Busoni
- Petri
- Risler
- Barere
- Eileen Joyce
- Nat
- Tipo
Overrated (there are actually more who shouldn't be there)
- Wild
- Uchida
- Pletnev
- Previn
- Watts
- Van Cliburn
- Janis
- Haebler
- Eschenbach
- Pires
Francesco
>
>2) The 10 Most Neglected Pianists of the 20th Century - Please list 10
>pianists (At least 1, no more than 10) who are not in the Philips list
>(below), but who you believe should have been included, numbered from 1
(most
>neglected) to 10.
>
>3) The 10 Most Over-Rated Pianists of the 20th Century - Please list 10
>pianists (At least 1, no more than 10) who you feel should not have been
>included in the Philips list (below), numbered from 1 (most over-rated) to
>10.
>
>RULES:
>
>- Make sure your post includes the word "MEGAPOLL" in the subject line.
This
> is how I will track the voting.
>
>- You may post in one, two, or all three of the above categories, but only
>once per category.
>
>- Pianists listed by Philips as part of a duo-piano team (the Lhevinnes
and
>the Burk & Taimanov duo) may be voted as a team or separately, but will
not
>be double-counted. Be explicit in your vote.
>
>- Do not exceed the posting limits per category (at least 1, no more than
>10).
>
>- You must post your vote to rec.music.classical.recordings. Email votes
>will not be counted if they are not posted as well.
>
>- Deadline for voting is midnight EST 1/31/99, according to the date/time
> stamp in DejaNews.
>
>- Please remember to snip the list of pianists from Philips to save
bandwidth
> when replying.
>
>I will post the results of the poll in early February. Votes will be
tallied
>as follows: 10 points for a first-place vote, 9 for second-place, etc. If
>you disregard the posting rules, your votes will be nullified!
>
>Here is the list of the 74 pianists in the Philips series:
>
>Géza Anda
>Martha Argerich
>Claudio Arrau
>Vladimir Ashkenazy
>Wilhelm Backhaus
>Daniel Barenboim
>Jorge Bolet
>Alfred Brendel
>Lyubov Bruk & Mark Taimanov
>Robert Casadesus
>Shura Cherkassky
>Van Cliburn
>Alfred Cortot
>Sir Clifford Curzon
>György Cziffra
>Christoph Eschenbach
>Edwin Fischer
>Leon Fleisher
>Samson François
>Nelson Freire
>Ignaz Friedman
>André Gavrilov
>Walter Wilhelm Gieseking
>Emil Gilels
>Grigori Ginsberg
>Leopold Godowsky
>Glenn Gould
>Friedrich Goulda
>Ingrid Haebler
>Clara Haskil
>Myra Hess
>Josef Hofmann
>Vladimir Horowitz
>Byron Janis
>William Kapell
>Julius Katchen
>Wilhelm Kempff
>Evgeny Kissin
>Zoltán Kocsis
>Stephen Kovacevich
>Alicia de Larrocha
>Josef & Regina Lhévinne
>Dinu Lipatti
>Radu Lupu
>Nikita Magaloff
>Arturo Benedetti Michelangeli
>Benno Moiseiwitsch
>Ivan Moravec
>John Ogdon
>Ignacy Jan Paderewski
>Murray Perahia
>Maria Joâo Pires
>Mikhail Pletnev
>Maurizio Pollini
>André Previn
>Sergei Rachmaninoff
>Sviatoslav Richter
>Artur Rubinstein
>András Schiff
>Artur Schnabel
>Rudolf Serkin
>Vladimir Sofronitzky
>Solomon Cutner
>Rosalyn Tureck
>Mitsuko Uchida
>André Watts
>Alexis Sigismund Weissenberg
>Earl Wild
>Mariya Yudina
>Krystian Zimerman
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
>http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
jerem...@my-dejanews.com
Pianists of the 20th Century." I propose a poll for our newsgroup, consisting
of the following three categories:
1) The 10 *Truly* Greatest Pianists of the 20th Century - I have listed the 71
entries (below)that Philips has included in their selection (there are 74
pianists altogether, 71 solo pianists and 2 sets of duo-pianists). Select 10
(At least 1, no more than 10) from the list, or write in your own candidates,
numbered from 1 (best) to 10.
2) The 10 Most Neglected Pianists of the 20th Century - Please list 10
Simon Roberts
: Greatest 10:
[snip]
: Most underrated 10:
[snip]
: Most overrated 10:
[snip]
I can't imagine how to go about filling any of these lists (wouldn't it
be easier to do it by music? Thus one might say that Perahia's Mozart is
overrated but not his Bach, that Schiff's Bach is overrated but not his
Beethoven concertos and Schubert trios, etc.), so I'll simply
ask a question instead. What's meant here by under/overrated? Relative
to what? For instance, I might (but don't; I don't think there is such a
thing) think Richter the greatest pianist but, after reading all the hype,
realize that he's not *that* good (no-one could be) and thus, in that
sense, overrated. Or one could have the same pianist in each list;
Sofronitsky, say, is a great pianist, but most Anglo-American buyers of
classical recordings have never even heard of him, let alone heard him
(that's not a scientifically verified statement, but I think it's probably
true based on the relative unavailability of his recordings and based on
my experiences selling the stuff a few years ago; anyway, let's assume it
arguendo), so he's underrated (I'm assuming that a high degree of
obscurity is a form of underrating, which is hardly unassailable); but
chances are he's not as good as his most ardent admirers say he is, so
he's also overrated....
Simon
jerem...@my-dejanews.com
si...@dept.english.upenn.edu (Simon Roberts) wrote:
> MT (matr...@sprintmail.com) wrote:
> : Greatest 10:
>
> [snip]
>
> : Most underrated 10:
>
> [snip]
>
> : Most overrated 10:
>
> [snip]
>
> I can't imagine how to go about filling any of these lists (wouldn't it
> be easier to do it by music? Thus one might say that Perahia's Mozart is
> overrated but not his Bach, that Schiff's Bach is overrated but not his
> Beethoven concertos and Schubert trios, etc.), so I'll simply
> ask a question instead. What's meant here by under/overrated? Relative
> to what?
Relative to the opinions of the editorial board that put the Philips
collection together. If you were in charge putting this collection together,
who have they missed that you would include? (=underrated) Who have they
included that you would have left off the list? (=overrated) As for the "Top
10," if you were in charge of the Philips project and were told that you
could only release one CD for each of any ten pianists on the list, who would
you choose?
I realize this is not an exact science. Besides, my real intention was simply
to instigate some really superb flame wars. ;-) :-)
Simon Roberts
: I realize this is not an exact science. Besides, my real intention was simply
: to instigate some really superb flame wars. ;-) :-)
Ah, now we're getting somewhere....
1. Underrated. I came up with this list by staring at my Chopin discs,
and omitting pianists who are dead (an aribitrary but effective way to
shorten the list) so I'm bound to be ignoring someone I may prefer to some
of these.
Fou Ts'ong
Virssaladze
Tipo
Rigutto
Sokolov
Gavrilov
Weissenberg
Kocsis
Bunin
Pogorelich
2. Overrated
Kempff
Curzon
Solomon
Haskil
Tureck
R. Serkin
Pollini
Anda
Wild
Gieseking
Simon
vladimir
MT wrote in message <36A948...@sprintmail.com>...
snip
>Most overrated 10:
>
>Arturo Benedetti Michelangeli
>Emil Gilels
>Volodya Horowitz
>Glenn Gould
>Martha Argerich
>Wanda Landowska
>Sergei Rachmaninoff
>Van Cliburn
>
Do you really believe that Philips should have omitted these artists
from inclusion in their series???? That is how the pollster defined
this category, but I can't believe you wouldn't put the likes of
Horowitz, Rachmaninoff, Michelangeli, Gilels, Argerich et al in
the top 71 pianists of the century!
- pc
Marc Perman
>
>I can't imagine how to go about filling any of these lists (wouldn't it
>be easier to do it by music? Thus one might say that Perahia's Mozart is
>overrated but not his Bach, that Schiff's Bach is overrated but not his
>Beethoven concertos and Schubert trios, etc.), so I'll simply
>ask a question instead. What's meant here by under/overrated? Relative
>thing) think Richter the greatest pianist but, after reading all the hype,
>realize that he's not *that* good (no-one could be) and thus, in that
>sense, overrated. Or one could have the same pianist in each list;
>Sofronitsky, say, is a great pianist, but most Anglo-American buyers of
>classical recordings have never even heard of him, let alone heard him
>(that's not a scientifically verified statement, but I think it's probably
>true based on the relative unavailability of his recordings and based on
>my experiences selling the stuff a few years ago; anyway, let's assume it
>arguendo), so he's underrated (I'm assuming that a high degree of
>obscurity is a form of underrating, which is hardly unassailable); but
>chances are he's not as good as his most ardent admirers say he is, so
>he's also overrated....
>
arcane subject matter, least entertaining) posts I've read around here
in a while.
Marc Perman :)
samir ghiocel golescu
On Sat, 23 Jan 1999, eberha14 wrote:
> > 3) The 10 Most Over-Rated Pianists of the 20th Century - [...]
> > numbered from 1 (most over-rated) to 10.
>
> 1) Glenn Gould
How could you DARE write such a thing? (-:
And what's most important how could I agree with you?
regards,
SG
Matthew B. Tepper
gol...@students.uiuc.edu pondered what I'm pondering as follows...
You mean that makes three of us? *gasp*
samir ghiocel golescu
On 23 Jan 1999, Matthew B. Tepper wrote:
> In article <Pine.SOL.3.96.99012...@ux7.cso.uiuc.edu>,
> gol...@students.uiuc.edu pondered what I'm pondering as follows...
> >
> >How could you DARE write such a thing? (-:
> >
> >And what's most important how could I agree with you?
> >
> >regards,
> >SG
>
> You mean that makes three of us? *gasp*
If I vote twice, could we be counted as four? (-:
Andy Evans
Best 10:
Rachmaninov
Horowitz
Hofmann
Richter
Sofronitsky
Lipatti
Paderewski
Cortot
Friedman
Rubinstein
Most Neglected:
Prokofiev
Nikolayeva
Feinberg
Rosenthal
Graffman
Egorov
Flier
Rosen
Lugansky
Ovchinikov
Most Over-Rated:
Zimmerman
Uchida
Pires
Kovacevich
Kissin
Argerich
Ashkenazy
Barenboim
Schiff
Gieseking
Andy Evans
samir ghiocel golescu
On Sun, 24 Jan 1999, Luca Sabbatini wrote:
> >1) The 10 *Truly* Greatest Pianists of the 20th Century -
> (Tie)
> Ferruccio Busoni
> Alfred Cortot
> Edwin Fischer
> Josef Hofmann
> Vladimir Horowitz
> Josef Lhévinne
> Arturo Benedetti Michelangeli
> Serge Rachmaninov
> Sviatoslav Richter
> Vladimir Sofronitzky
> (Too bad, they're all dead)
interesting list... I would agree with you on Busoni, I would kill for a
recording of Goldberg Variations with him... but is so little recorded
evidence of him... the piano rolls are more but how faithful are them? I
heard the Chaconne in three different translations (Fone, Nimbus,
Melodyia) -- different tempos, dynamics, not to talk about the
instruments...
> >2) The 10 Most Neglected Pianists of the 20th Century -
> Ferruccio Busoni
> Moritz Rosenthal
Agree on Rosenthal, just that he is "Moriz" (not for being pedantic)
Best,
SG
samir ghiocel golescu
The "greatest" 10, ex aequo [it is absurd to compare Hofmann's Chopin
Fourth Ballad with Gieseking's Brahms Intermezzi]
Josef Hofmann
Edwin Fischer
Ferruccio Busoni
Moriz Rosenthal
Ignaz Friedman
Mark Hambourg
Konstantin Igumnov
Sergei Rachmaninov
Walter Gieseking
Tatiana Nikolaeva
"extra": Alfred Cortot
Van Cliburn
The most overrated 7 (some of them I like, with overrated I mean a
status out of what I see as their "real" proportion:)
Glenn Gould
Arturo Benedetti-Michelangeli
Sviatoslav Richter
Maurizio Pollini
Kissin
Barenboim
Arthur Rubinstein
The most sadly neglected:
Moriz Rosenthal
Mark Hambourg
Konstantin Igumnov
Samuel Feinberg
SG
John Gavin
1. Sergei Rachmaninoff
2. Arturo Benedetti-Michelangeli
3. Joseph Hoffman
4. Leopold Godowsky
5. Artur Schnabel
6. William Kappell
7. Alicia deLarrocha
8. Marc Andre-Hamelin
9. Sviatoslav Richter
10. Myra Hess
__________________________
Neglected
1. Nicholai Medtner
2. Sigismund Stojowski
3. Maryla Jonas
4. Carlo Zecchi
5. Vladimir Sofronitzky
6. Benno Moisewitch
7. Aldo Ciccolini
8. Antonio Barbosa
9. Witold Malcuzynski
10. Stephen Hough
___________________________
Overrated
1. Alexis Weissenberg
2. Jorge Bolet
3. Glenn Gould
4. Vladimir Ashkenazy
5. Alexander Brailowsky
6. Andre Previn
7. Earl Wild
8. Van Cliburn
9. Shura Cherkassky
10.Byron Janis
Benjamin Maso
Cortot
Schnabel
Edwin Fischer
Gieseking
Horowitz
Rachmaninoff
Richter
Gilels
Hofmann
Rubinstein
The 10 we could do without:
Previn
Tureck
Uchida
Watts
Eschenbach
Barenboim
Haebler
Bruk & Taimanoff
Kissin
Janis
The ten I wouldn't be without
Leopoldo Querol
Guiomar Novaes
Moritz Rosenthal
Simon Barere
Konstatin Igumnov
Mischa Levitzky
Yves Nat
Vlado Perlemuter
Grigori Sokolov
Egon Petri
(with excuses to Horszowsky, Bauer, Neuhaus, Rosen, Sauer, Berman,
Pogorelic, Flier, Goldenweiser, Firknusy, Jeanne-Marie Darre, Zhukov, Magda
Tagliaferro who all deserve a place in the pantheon)
Benjo Maso
Luca Sabbatini
(Tie)
Ferruccio Busoni
Alfred Cortot
Edwin Fischer
Josef Hofmann
Vladimir Horowitz
Josef Lhévinne
Arturo Benedetti Michelangeli
Serge Rachmaninov
Sviatoslav Richter
Vladimir Sofronitzky
(Too bad, they're all dead)
>2) The 10 Most Neglected Pianists of the 20th Century -
Ferruccio Busoni
Moritz Rosenthal
Egon Petri
Andrzei Wasowski
Yves Nat
Simon Barere
Marcelle Meyer
Carlo Zecchi
Edouard Risler
Ivo Pogorelich
(Good, I've found one still alive)
>3) The 10 Most Over-Rated Pianists of the 20th Century - (not only from the
Great Pianists collection)
André Previn
Daniel Barenboim
André Watts
Maria Joâo Pires
Mikhail Rudy
Andras Schiff
Christian Zacharias
Anatol Ugorski
Maurizio Pollini
Michel Dalberto
(Seems like they're all alive)
LS
---
To e-mail me, please remove CAPS from reply address
Simon Roberts
: >3) The 10 Most Over-Rated Pianists of the 20th Century - (not only from the
: Great Pianists collection)
: André Previn
: Daniel Barenboim
: André Watts
: Maria Joâo Pires
: Mikhail Rudy
: Andras Schiff
: Christian Zacharias
: Anatol Ugorski
: Maurizio Pollini
: Michel Dalberto
: (Seems like they're all alive)
I don't want to debate the merits of these (though I don't share the
general dislike of Pires around here), but I'm curious why you call some
of these people "overrated"; I've never seen a favorable review of
Ugorsky, Zacharias and Rudy are barely known, Watts seems all but
forgotten, and Dalberto seems to be ignored. Or am I reading the wrong
stuff?
Simon
Atoddk
>I don't want to debate the merits of these (though I don't share the
>general dislike of Pires around here)
Nor do I. I don't know her Mozart well and could well imagine it not being a
first choice, based on what I do know of her playing, but some things she's
done more recently have been enchanting. Chopin Nocturnes and (the
unintentionally funny packaging/art aside) Schubert Impromptus, for instance.
Todd K
Simon Roberts
: Simon wrote:
There seem to be two Pireses, as it were. Her older Erato recordings are
almost uniformly dull, understated performances (those that I've heard
are, at least), the Mozart concerto recordings made worse by the wretched
orchestral contributions. Her later Erato recordings and DG recordings
seem in a different class, including those you mentioned and her remakes
of Mozart concertos, expecially the 17.
Simon
A S Graham
>
>1) The 10 *Truly* Greatest Pianists of the 20th Century - I have listed the
>71
>entries (below)that Philips has included in their selection (there are 74
>pianists altogether, 71 solo pianists and 2 sets of duo-pianists). Select 10
>(At least 1, no more than 10) from the list, or write in your own candidates,
>numbered from 1 (best) to 10.
>
1. Rachmaninoff
2. Richter
3. Sofronitsky
4. Hofmann
5. Lhevinne
6. Friedman
7. Petri
8. Gilels
9. Moiseiwitsch
10. Michelangeli
>2) The 10 Most Neglected Pianists of the 20th Century - Please list 10
>pianists (At least 1, no more than 10) who are not in the Philips list
>(below), but who you believe should have been included, numbered from 1 (most
>neglected) to 10.
>
1. Emil von Sauer
2. Egon Petri
3. Aldo Ciccolini
4. Paul Crossley
5. Ossip Gabrilowitsch
>3) The 10 Most Over-Rated Pianists of the 20th Century - Please list 10
>pianists (At least 1, no more than 10) who you feel should not have been
>included in the Philips list (below), numbered from 1 (most over-rated) to
>10.
>
1. Andre Previn
2. Mitsuko Uchida
_________________________________________________
Scott Graham
Monterey, CA
emjon...@aol.com
samir ghiocel golescu <gol...@students.uiuc.edu> wrote:
>
>
> On Sun, 24 Jan 1999, Luca Sabbatini wrote:
>
> > Ferruccio Busoni
> > Alfred Cortot
Yay!! My goodness, what excellent taste you have. What an amazing
coincidence it so closely resembles my own... ;-)
> Busoni, I would kill for a
> recording of Goldberg Variations with him... but is so little recorded
> evidence of him... the piano rolls are more but how faithful are they
Hmm..couldn't tell you but it sure beats the alternative!
My .02 worth...
Greatest *Living* Pianists
1. Brendel
2. Argerich
Yep. There ya go!
--Elisabeth J.
Edward dimitri Kennaway
>Philips (sponsored by Steinway & Sons) has begun issuing its series "Great
>Pianists of the 20th Century." I propose a poll for our newsgroup, consisting
>of the following three categories:
>
1) The 10 *Truly* Greatest Pianists of the 20th Century -
Ignaz Friedman
Josef Hofmann
Vladimir Horowitz
Joseph Lhevinne
Dinu Lipatti
Benno Moiseivitch
Sergei Rachmaninoff
Sviatoslav Richter
Moritz Rosenthal
Solomon
2) The 10 Most Neglected Pianists of the 20th Century -
Alexander Borovsky
Feruccio Busoni
Albert Ferber
Annie Fischer
Jacob Gimpel
Mischa Levitski
Lev Oborin
Gyorgy Sandor
Anne Schein
Alexander Uninsky
3) The 10 Most Over-Rated Pianists of the 20th Century -
Géza Anda
Claudio Arrau
Alfred Brendel
Christoph Eschenbach
Stephen Kovacevich
John Ogdon
Maurizio Pollini
André Previn
Mitsuko Uchida
Alexis Sigismund Weissenberg
EDK
Wayne Reimer
> 2) The 10 Most Neglected Pianists of the 20th Century -
No need to even mention Busoni. I guess Phillips couldn't get enough
material to make a 2 CD set. They should have done a special 1 CD
supplement for Busoni, in that case. Anyway, here's just a sampling of
neglected ones. (This category should not be limited in number, I
think.)
- Firkusny
- Raekallio
- Johannesen
- Mathis (James) - of course, that he refused to make commercial
recordings might explain something
- Rudy
- Koren
- Szidon
- Hough
- Shelley
- Graham (Daniel) - because of his MHS recordings of Szymanowski and
Medtner that changed my musical life
>
> 3) The 10 Most Over-Rated Pianists of the 20th Century -
Kissin
Schiff
Tureck
Pollini
Casadesus
Previn
Wild
-------
WR
Luca Sabbatini
Simon Roberts wrote...
>Luca Sabbatini (lsabb...@geneva-link.ch) wrote:
>
[...]
>
>I don't want to debate the merits of these (though I don't share the
>of these people "overrated"; I've never seen a favorable review of
>Ugorsky, Zacharias and Rudy are barely known, Watts seems all but
>forgotten, and Dalberto seems to be ignored. Or am I reading the wrong
>stuff?
>
>Simon
Pires: too mannered and artificial (Chopin Nocturnes, Schubert Impromptus).
"Elle pose", as we say in french.
From THIS side of the Atlantic Ocean (I live in Geneva, Switzerland),
Ugorski's first CDs got good reviews (he was even invited at the first
Lucerne Piano Festival last year - his recital was a disaster). Zacharias
plays all over Europe (France, Germany, Switzerland, Italy, etc. - a few
millions potential listeners) and gets attention and very positive reviews
in the French, German, Swiss, Italian, etc. magazines... A complete mystery
for me... Rudy is a kind of star - at least in France, where he's widely
invited. Watts and Dalberto are still playing around a lot, though maybe not
in the top locations. My choice is based on my personal experience. After
all, Europe is still one of the main place for classical music. But it's
true that these pianists (with the exception of Watts, of course) didn't
really make it in the US.
Among the most neglected pianists, I forgot to mention (shame on me) Samuil
Feinberg, one of my favorite musician ever.
Luca Sabbatini
On Sun, 24 Jan 1999, Luca Sabbatini wrote:
> >1) The 10 *Truly* Greatest Pianists of the 20th Century -
> (Tie)
> Ferruccio Busoni
[...]
> (Too bad, they're all dead)
Samir: "interesting list... I would agree with you on Busoni, I would kill
for a
recording of Goldberg Variations with him... but is so little recorded
evidence of him... the piano rolls are more but how faithful are them? I
heard the Chaconne in three different translations (Fone, Nimbus,
Melodyia) -- different tempos, dynamics, not to talk about the
instruments..."
I know most of the rolls from Busoni, and I don't trust the transfers. My
opinion is based on hours (days, nights...) of repeated listenings of the
few 78s he made, on several serious testimonies about his playing, and on
careful listenings of his own piano works. He would have been known only for
his 78s, he'd still deserve to be part of the Great Pianists Edition.
> >2) The 10 Most Neglected Pianists of the 20th Century -
> Ferruccio Busoni
> Moritz Rosenthal
>Agree on Rosenthal, just that he is "Moriz" (not for being pedantic)
Thanks for the correction. I'm reading too much german these days...
Benjamin Maso
Luca Sabbatini wrote in message <78emsl$fpt$1...@sibyl.sunrise.ch>...
>Among the most neglected pianists, I forgot to mention (shame on me) Samuil
>Feinberg, one of my favorite musician ever.
I forgot Feinberg too, and Annie Fischer, and Tatjana Nikolajewa, and
without a doubt many others I don't know sufficiently (Gabrilowitch,
Sapellnikov, Oborin, Rosita Renard to take some examples). The list of
neglected pianists who deserve a place in the series, more than the
Previn's and Uchida's is staggering.
Benjo Maso
Allan Evans
will realize at once his importance. There isn't any more of his playing
extant, unfortunately. Hopefully listeners who haven't yet heard his discs
will be able to one day, but that doesn't mean he' neglected, rather that
the present music world ignores his legacy. But this oversight too will
soon be subject to becoming overlooked - the cycles of history at play.
Allan Evans
vladimir
Allan Evans wrote in message ...
I hope Telarc gives Busoni's piano roll recordings the same "window
in time" treatment they did Rachmaninoffs. Their Rach plays Rach cd
is very convincing - it sounds like Rachmaninoff's playing, in modern
sound. While this technology can't remove all the questions about
piano roll reproduction, the results so far sound great to me.
- Phil Caron
ottor...@my-dejanews.com
jerem...@my-dejanews.com wrote:
> Philips (sponsored by Steinway & Sons) has begun issuing its series "Great
> Pianists of the 20th Century." I propose a poll for our newsgroup, consisting
> of
>
>
> 2) The 10 Most Neglected Pianists of the 20th Century - Please list 10
> pianists (At least 1, no more than 10) who are not in the Philips list
Well, here are 9, more or less alphabetically:
Jorg Demus
Samuil Feinberg
Fou Ts’ong
Paul Jacobs
Yves Nat
Ursula Oppens
Charles Rosen
Eduard Steuermann
David Tudor
> 3) The 10 Most Over-Rated Pianists of the 20th Century - Please list 10
> pianists (At least 1, no more than 10) who you feel should not have been
> included in the Philips list
Here are 9 more, again alphabetically:
Géza Anda
Vladimir Ashkenazý
Daniel Barenboim
Van Cliburn
Solomon Cutner
Clara Haskil
Wilhelm Kempff
André Previn
András Schiff
Otto
vladimir
samir ghiocel golescu wrote in message ...
On Sun, 24 Jan 1999, Luca Sabbatini wrote:
> >1) The 10 *Truly* Greatest Pianists of the 20th Century -
> (Tie)
> Ferruccio Busoni
> interesting list... I would agree with you on Busoni, I would kill for a
> recording of Goldberg Variations with him... but is so little recorded
> evidence of him... the piano rolls are more but how faithful are them? I
> heard the Chaconne in three different translations (Fone, Nimbus,
> Melodyia) -- different tempos, dynamics, not to talk about the
> instruments...
See Telarc's "window in time" technology, Rach plays Rach. Comparisons
with his real recordings are very convincing.
- Phil Caron
Rinze Mozes
>
>> 2) The 10 Most Neglected Pianists of the 20th Century -
Very much underrated is I think the Dutch pianist Dirk Schaefer, the
first who played all the Beethoven piano sonatas at the Concertgebouw
in the twenties.
Nobody of you ever heard (of) him?
Ruinze Mozes
Matthew B. Tepper
>
The thing is, though, didn't Busoni make piano rolls for all three of
the "systems"? Welte, Ampico, and Duo-Art? I'd *love* to see somebody
collect a pianist's entire roll "legacy" and issue it complete, just for
purposes of comparison.
Benjamin Maso
Rinze Mozes wrote in message <36ab3f39...@news.wxs.nl>...
Yes, I know him. He considered himself a componist who played the piano and
not as a pianist, which to him was a term of abuse. His fine piano quintet
is ocasionally performed in Holand, and if I am not mistaken Ronald
Brautigam and the Orlando Quartet made a recording of it. He was not only
the first to play a Beethoven cycle in Amstrdam, but from 1913 on he gave
also series of ten or eleven "historical" recitals in which he surveyed the
piano literature from the English virginalists to Schoenberg. I don't think
he made many recordings, and as far as I know there is only one CD available
(Opal CD 9861). As far as I can hear (the sound of his recording is mediocre
at best), he certainly was a very good "pianist" and a fine Chopin-player.
It's a pity he only recorded short pieces, and never a Beethoven sonata, or
music from 20th century composers. If he had, it would have been easier to
be a judge of his qualities.
Benjo Maso
Nicolas Hodges
<jg...@webtv.net> writes
>Truly Great
>8. Marc Andre-Hamelin
You have *got* to be joking.
--
Nic
Nicolas Hodges
dejanews.com writes
>> 2) The 10 Most Neglected Pianists of the 20th Century - Please list 10
>> pianists (At least 1, no more than 10) who are not in the Philips list
>
First time I've heard his name here. True, though.
--
Nic
samir ghiocel golescu
On 24 Jan 1999, Matthew B. Tepper wrote:
> The thing is, though, didn't Busoni make piano rolls for all three of
> the "systems"? Welte, Ampico, and Duo-Art? I'd *love* to see somebody
> collect a pianist's entire roll "legacy" and issue it complete, just for
> purposes of comparison.
It would be an enormously welcomed idea, and not only for purposes of
comparison. IMOANO [and not only] Busoni was one of the greatest musical
minds of the century and as a pianist he didn't have predecessor or
successor, not even Petri or Zadora or others, his splendid disciples. In
the first decade of the century, in Russia, Busoni and Hofmann gave,
alternatively and somehow "competitively" looong recital series, with huge
programs, encompassing large areas of the piano repertoire... (among
others they both played Beethoven's Hammerklavier, and the critics
preferred Busoni and tones of Chopin and, of course, the critics preferred
Hofmann!) What days, my God!
Even if Busoni's Chopin was comparatively unidiomatic (but always
really, truly exceptional), Busoni's Bach and Liszt were, I believe,
supreme. I'm glad Mr. Sabatini brought him in discussion, because it is
true that the few "modest" 78s he recorded have a huge value. The C Major
Fugue (WTC I) has a silvery, angelic sound quality, the polyphony is
splendidly emphasised and with great subtlety, with the "breaths"
between the sections of the fugue I consider so necessary (no pianist
is doing them anymore). The Choral recorded has an incomparable supermaterial
quality which makes Horowitz's famous HMV recording (just a decade or so
later) sound terrestrial and virtuosic. The A Minor Liszt's Hungarian
Rhapsody has again such a strong "spiritual" component, under Busoni's
hands, which perhaps Liszt himself didn't premeditately inserted into the
music.
If ones look into Busoni's edition of Goldberg Variations, edition
which is anathema to this day's purists, can imagine, to a certain extant,
what the performance (with all the textual alterations, cuts or not,
"badly distorted" new endings etc.) of Busoni must have been. We are used
today to divide "interpretive licencies" in things which can be done and
things which can not be done. We forget too easily the essential truth
contained in "Quod licet Jovi, non licet bovi"! How can an average,
ordinary, mediocre (pardon the redundancy) pianist believe that Busoni
should have been reduced to the same rules as himself? When a scale
practiced at home by Busoni contained more music than an average recital
of a "great name" of today?! (Yes, I heard it, Mr. Koren, I found that
"time--machine"! :-)
"To big assumed responsibilities, big rights granted!" Busoni's was the
saint madness of searching the unknown, not the unknown which
wasn't searched for because it was just weird and untempting (G.G....)
but something new and true and meaningful to an extreme, the heavenly
sonorities nobody else thought possible on the piano, the transcendental
soul of the piano... After one of Busoni's concerts, some young pianists
came on the stage and searched into the instrument, believing apparently
that the piano was "prepared" with some tricks. No trick was found and
they couldn't understand how Busoni's Bechstein sounded *completely*
different under his hands...
Busoni's technique (not fully captured on his 1919 and 1922 discs which he
did under great stress) was as incredibly great as his whim. The
pianist, critic, painter, writer... Cella Delavrancea (1887-1990 !!) heard
Busoni, in a recital whose first half was coldly received by a Swiss
audience, playing Chopin's all four Ballads in a defying gesture, like a
machine, without interruptions and TWICE faster than usual. In the general
"boos", he left the stage sending a "kiss" to the infuriated public...
Pablo Casals testified that Busoni's greatness sometimes deviated in
wilfully perverse interpretations... But when he was in his day nobody
could play with such spiritual identification Bach's or Liszt's
music.
Busoni left many rolls, including a good number of the "big repertory"
pieces and missing his discs makes the piano rolls legacy even more
important, if we like rolls or not.
Samir Golescu
Peter Lemken
>
>Most neglected/deserve more attention...
>1) Igor Zhukov
>2) Ralph Votapek
Aw, c'mon, you are really rating Zhukov over Votapek?
I can hardly believe I made you change your mind (though that recital at
UMICH might have done just that...).
Peter Lemken
Berlin
--
No-SSB International (tm)
Member Number 1,000,012
Believe It (tm)
If You *CAN* Beep, NSI Wants YOU !
http://www.qsl.net/kh2d/nossb.html
Alan Cooper
>2) The 10 Most Neglected Pianists of the 20th Century - Please list 10
>pianists (At least 1, no more than 10) who are not in the Philips list
>(below), but who you believe should have been included, numbered from 1 (most
>neglected) to 10.
1) Loesser
2) Bauer
3) Bashkirov
4) Koroliov
5) Zhukov
6) Ciani
7) Petri
8) Barere
9) Darre
10) Del Pueyo
>3) The 10 Most Over-Rated Pianists of the 20th Century - Please list 10
>pianists (At least 1, no more than 10) who you feel should not have been
>included in the Philips list (below), numbered from 1 (most over-rated) to
>10.
1) Argerich
2) Kissin
3) Curzon
4) Paderewski
AC
Peter Lemken
and asked for it:
>Philips (sponsored by Steinway & Sons) has begun issuing its series "Great
>Pianists of the 20th Century." I propose a poll for our newsgroup, consisting
>of the following three categories:
>
>1) The 10 *Truly* Greatest Pianists of the 20th Century - I have listed the 71
>entries (below)that Philips has included in their selection (there are 74
>pianists altogether, 71 solo pianists and 2 sets of duo-pianists). Select 10
>(At least 1, no more than 10) from the list, or write in your own candidates,
>numbered from 1 (best) to 10.
1. Serge Rachmaninoff
2. Josef Hofman
3. Joseph Lhevinne
4. Vladimir Sofronitsky
5. Sviatoslav Richter
6. Samuil Feinberg
7. Alicia de Larrocha
8. Friedrich Gulda
9. Grigory Ginsburg
10.Vladimir Horowitz
>
>2) The 10 Most Neglected Pianists of the 20th Century - Please list 10
>pianists (At least 1, no more than 10) who are not in the Philips list
>(below), but who you believe should have been included, numbered from 1 (most
>neglected) to 10.
1. Grigory Sokolov
2. Igor Zhukov
3. Ferruccio Busoni
4. Simon Barere
5. Ossip Gabrilovich
6. Emil von Sauer
7. Egon Petri
8. Yuri Egorov
9. Tzimon (Peter) Barto (You're gonna kill me for that one, aren't you?)
10.Valery Afanassiev
>
>3) The 10 Most Over-Rated Pianists of the 20th Century - Please list 10
>pianists (At least 1, no more than 10) who you feel should not have been
>included in the Philips list (below), numbered from 1 (most over-rated) to
>10.
1. Maria Joao Pires
2. Vladimir Ashkenazy
3. Maurizio Pollini
4. Anatol Ugorsky
5. Andras Schiff
6. Ingrid Haebler
7. Andre Gavrilov
8. Leon Fleisher
9. Claudio Arrau
10.Walter Gieseking
11. (Out of competition, since not included in the Philips edition):
Ivo Pogorelich
Peter Lemken
Berlin
Allan Evans
> pieces and missing his discs makes the piano rolls legacy even more
> important, if we like rolls or not.
>
> Samir Golescu
One of the unsolvable Busoni mysteries is the fate of a cylinder or early
disc recorded privately by Busoni of one of his compositions. It belonged
to a lady friend of his in Torino - the recording was made by him in her
home and she treasured the disc/cylinder. She died childless and traces of
her belongings have disappeared.
Arthur Shapiro
BEST
1. Vladimir Horowitz
2. Ivan Moravec
3. Sergei Rachmaninoff
4. Josef Hoffman
5. Arturo B. Michelangeli
6. Shura Cherkassky
7. Earl Wild
8. Ignaz Friedman
9. Robert Casadesus
10. Walter Gieseking
OVERRATED:
1. Glenn Gould
2. Andre Previn
NEGLECTED:
1. Tamas Vasary
2. Michael Ponti
3. Jerome Lowenthal
4. Jean P. Collard
5. Bella Davidovich
6. Phillipe Entremont
Art
ral...@my-dejanews.com
rmo...@bigfoot.com (Rinze Mozes) wrote:
>
> >
> >> 2) The 10 Most Neglected Pianists of the 20th Century -
>
> first who played all the Beethoven piano sonatas at the Concertgebouw
> in the twenties.
> Nobody of you ever heard (of) him?
>
>
Dirk Schaefer (unlauted a) is available on Pearl PEA 9861 ...but...I've not
heard it....I'll keep a look out for it.
ralf
skipf...@my-dejanews.com
jerem...@my-dejanews.com wrote:
>
> I realize this is not an exact science. Besides, my real intention was simply
> to instigate some really superb flame wars. ;-) :-)
Well then, Jeremy, don your asbestos suit, because I've got my flame-thrower
out:
Attempting to determine the "greatest" pianists (or "greatest" artist,
musician, etc.) is one of the most inane things that can be attempted. The
reason for this is because there really isn't any such thing as a "great"
pianist, as least as far as that term is usually used. The problem with the
use of that word is that its exact definition is never explicitly stated. I
think most people who use that word seem to think, either consciously or more
often subconciously, that there is some absolute standard of greatness and
that all we have to do is measure pianists against that standard in order to
determine who is the greatest. But I think that what we really do when we try
to determine who is the greatest pianist is simply figure out which pianist
we like the best and then conclude they are the greatest. And, in fact, that
is the only definition of greatness that makes sense to me. If I think a
pianist or muscial work or painting (or whatever) is great, then dammit, they
or it is great.
So, better categories for you poll would be as follows:
Instead of "The 10 *Truly* Greatest Pianists of the 20th Century", I would
substitute "The 10 Pianists of the 20th century you like the most". That's a
good question.
Instead of "The 10 Most Neglected Pianists of the 20th Century", I would
substitue "The 10 Pianists of the 20th Century that people should like, but
don't", and instead of "The 10 Most Over-Rated Pianists of the 20th Century" I
would substitute "The 10 Pianists of the 20th Century that people should not
like, but do". But since it doesn't really make sense to tell people who they
should or shouldn't like, I would have to reject these new categories. And
since I think your original categories are really asking for the same thing, I
must reject them also. So, to conclude, I suggest that you simply poll us on
the pianists we like the best, and be done with it.
Of course, we don't get a flame war that way, do we? Sorry to disappoint
you...then again, if you want to flame me for calling your poll "inane", then
feel free...oh, but by the way, I wasn't calling *you* inane...after all, I
do not consider myself to be inane, because even given what I wrote above, I
also fall prey to the idea that it is possible to define who is "great" as
opposed to who I *like*!..Darn it!...Looks like I may have extinguished any
chance of a flame war in this area too...again, sorry to disappoint...oh,
wait a second, I think I might have an idea coming on...yes...yes...YES! I
DO! Ready? Here goes:
Glenn Gould is the greatest pianist of the 20th Century and of all time!
For those of you about to die (via smoke inhalation), I salute you. But don't
blame me for your death, blame Jeremy!
PS: :-)
samir ghiocel golescu
On Mon, 25 Jan 1999 skipf...@my-dejanews.com wrote:
> Glenn Gould is the greatest pianist of the 20th Century and of all time!
Yes, that's true, but on which planet?
SG (-:
Matthew B. Tepper
The Bizarro world!
Wayne Reimer
>
> On Mon, 25 Jan 1999 skipf...@my-dejanews.com wrote:
>
> > Glenn Gould is the greatest pianist of the 20th Century and of all time!
>
> Yes, that's true, but on which planet?
>
> SG (-:
His playing may have been otherworldly, but I think it came from an
adjacent universe, not another planet.
WR :-)
samir ghiocel golescu
On Mon, 25 Jan 1999, Wayne Reimer wrote:
> samir ghiocel golescu wrote:
> >
> > On Mon, 25 Jan 1999 skipf...@my-dejanews.com wrote:
> >
> > > Glenn Gould is the greatest pianist of the 20th Century and of all time!
> >
> > Yes, that's true, but on which planet?
> >
>
> His playing may have been otherworldly, but I think it came from an
> adjacent universe, not another planet.
>
From the adjacent universe "Lasciate ogni speranza voi ch'entrate qui..."?
SG(-:
Peter Lemken
>There seem to be two Pireses, as it were. Her older Erato recordings are
>almost uniformly dull, understated performances (those that I've heard
>are, at least), the Mozart concerto recordings made worse by the wretched
>orchestral contributions. Her later Erato recordings and DG recordings
>seem in a different class, including those you mentioned and her remakes
>of Mozart concertos, expecially the 17.
Yes. They are even worse.
Simon Roberts
: si...@dept.english.upenn.edu (Simon Roberts) wrote:
: >There seem to be two Pireses, as it were. Her older Erato recordings are
: >almost uniformly dull, understated performances (those that I've heard
: >are, at least), the Mozart concerto recordings made worse by the wretched
: >orchestral contributions. Her later Erato recordings and DG recordings
: >seem in a different class, including those you mentioned and her remakes
: >of Mozart concertos, expecially the 17.
: Yes. They are even worse.
Hogwash
Simon
jerem...@my-dejanews.com
skipf...@my-dejanews.com wrote:
> In article <78cbea$q3v$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>,
> jerem...@my-dejanews.com wrote:
> >
> > I realize this is not an exact science. Besides, my real intention was
> > simply to instigate some really superb flame wars. ;-) :-)
>
> Well then, Jeremy, don your asbestos suit, because I've got my flame-thrower
> out:
>
> Attempting to determine the "greatest" pianists (or "greatest" artist,
> musician, etc.) is one of the most inane things that can be attempted.
[remainder of an admirable yet unsuccessful attempt to flame me snipped]
Actually, I agree with you in principle, but not in the context of this poll.
What I was really asking for in the original post (besides trying to start
flame wars) was, "If *you* were in charge of the Philips project, how would
your selections have differed? Who would you have included/excluded, and who
would your choices have been if the list were limited to only 10 pianists
instead of 74?"
So this just goes to show that we can agree to disagree, and still be civil,
and realize that we're just looking at two sides of the same coin. I'm OK,
you're OK; we're all just one big happy Usenet brotherhood, celebrating our
diverse opinions as the the "Ode to Joy" rings out triumphantly across the
skies of our common planetary home.
Oh, and by the way, your mother wears army boots. :-)
Wayne Reimer
>
> On Sun, 24 Jan 1999 00:09:45 -0800, Wayne Reimer <rei...@hooked.net>
> wrote:
>
> <...Deletia ...>
>
> >> 2) The 10 Most Neglected Pianists of the 20th Century -
>
> <..............>
>
> >- Szidon
>
> Whatever happened to Roberto Szidon? I have a boxed vinyl set of his
> Liszt Hungarian Rhapsodies. Has much been issued on CD?
>
> TIA
>
Just got an email from someone who says he is living and teaching in
Germany. And that the reissue of his wonderful Scriabin sonatas on DG
is OOP, which is a real shame. I think the Phillips set of Liszt
Hungarian Rhapsodies is still available. It's good, but it isn't, to my
ears, as fine as the Scriabin. Don't know the status of his Villa-Lobos
recordings. He did the best Rudepoema ever.
WR
Jack Crawford
wrote:
<...Deletia ...>
>> 2) The 10 Most Neglected Pianists of the 20th Century -
<..............>
>- Szidon
Whatever happened to Roberto Szidon? I have a boxed vinyl set of his
Liszt Hungarian Rhapsodies. Has much been issued on CD?
TIA
Jack
tho...@deas.freeserve.co.uk
> Please list 10 pianists (At least 1, no more than 10) who are not in the
Philips list (below), but who you believe should have been included, numbered
from 1 (most neglected) to 10.
1) Art Tatum
> Please list 10 pianists (At least 1, no more than 10) who you feel should
not have been included in the Philips list (below),
1)Andre Previn
Nicolas Hodges
If I change my mind I'll send in a whole different list in a few days!
Greatest
Gould
Pollini
Horowitz
Sofronitsky
Lipatti
Feinberg
Cortot
Richter
Argerich
Pogorelich
(in no-particular order)
[I've missed out some obvious earlier ones because (1) they're givens,
(2) there are so many that I couldn't choose.]
Most under-rated
Horowitz
Dino Ciani
Pollini
Feinberg
Ovchinikov
Sofronitsky
Feinberg
Most over-rated (definitely the easiest category)
Schiff
Uchida
Brendel
Gieseking
Kissin
Ogdon
Schnabel (ouch!)
Marc-André Hamelin
Joanna MacGregor
--
Nic
M-T
<<Most over-rated (definitely the easiest category)
...
Gieseking
...
Schnabel (ouch!)
...>>
Schnabel cannot be overrated because he played better than can be rated.
Gieseking, with incancescent performances in very disparate repertoire
(and the largest repertoire of any pianist) cannot easily be overrated,
either. Actually, he's underrated.
So you can't pick these two - they are at least as great as their
reputations, and in Gieseking's case, much greater.
There *had* to be disagreement, and here it is. As Jeeves would say: we
endeavor to give satisfaction.
Regards,
mt
vladimir
Horowitz
Rachmaninoff
Hofmann
Richter
Rubinstein
Arrau
Michelangeli
Sofronitsky
Schnabel
Gould
10 to remove ("overrated")
François - I know none of this artist's recordings.
Freire - I know none of this artist's recordings.
Haebler - I know none of this artist's recordings.
Previn
Schiff
Uchida
Kocsis
Watts
Lupu
Pires
10 to add ("neglected")
Busoni - including rolls engineered by Telarc
Rosenthal
Barere
Zhukov
Petri
Horszowski
Grainger
Hough
Novaes
Sokolov
A fascinating assignment. I could expand the remove & add categories
to 15. Undoubtedly Phillips had extra-musical issues to contend with in
their selection process.
- Phil Caron
Chuck Nessa
balls to be "out there".
CN
> Most over-rated (definitely the easiest category)
>
M-T
Yes indeed. Tatum is completely off the scale. No classical pianist, not
even Horowitz, could play at such speeds and yet with each note
perfectly distinct and with its exact value - and with a gorgeous sound,
to boot. Not to mention his ability to improvise, which is unmatched
among pianists.
I guess we should say that Tatum was the greatest pianist without
qualification and consider him _hors concours_ in these proceedings.
By the way, if we allowed jazz pianists, we'd have to include guys like
Earl Hines, Willie "The Lion" Smith, Teddy Wilson, Bud Powell, Hank
Jones, Bill Evans, Chucho Valdes, and several others. These guys are
more than a match to any classical pianist. Just the other day I was
listening to Valdes and marvelling at his musicianship and skill. He may
well be the Art Tatum of our day.
Regards,
mt
Wayne Reimer
>
<...>
>
> 10 to remove ("overrated")
> François - I know none of this artist's recordings.
> Freire - I know none of this artist's recordings.
> Haebler - I know none of this artist's recordings.
> Previn
> Schiff
> Uchida
> Kocsis
> Watts
> Lupu
> Pires
>
> - Phil Caron
The first three are overrated because you haven't heard them?!?!?!?!?
WR
Dick James
> Whatever happened to Roberto Szidon? I have a boxed vinyl set of his
> Liszt Hungarian Rhapsodies. Has much been issued on CD?
In the UK at least all of the HRs on a DG double disk - I bought it
recently.
Dick James
Simon Roberts
[snip]
: Gieseking, with incancescent performances in very disparate repertoire
: (and the largest repertoire of any pianist) cannot easily be overrated,
: either. Actually, he's underrated.
Perhaps it's just because what he's best at isn't music I listen to, but
I've never heard a Gieseking performance which I've felt a strong desire
to hear again. What would you recommend (aside from a new set of ears)?
Simon
M-T
<<Perhaps it's just because what he's best at isn't music I listen to,
but I've never heard a Gieseking performance which I've felt a strong
desire to hear again. What would you recommend (aside from a new set of
ears)?>>
Count Koren is the only one licensed to recommend new pairs of ears...As
to Gieseking performances, I love his Mozart sonatas and concerti, his
Schumann, his Beethoven sonatas and concerti, his Debussy (both early
and late), his Ravel, and so on. His Bach, unfortunately, is not
sufficiently or well represented in the catalog, but it was supposed to
be outstanding, too. Both Pearl and Music and Arts have substantial
retrospectives of Gieseking at various stages of his career -
unfortunately, only a relatively small fraction of his repertoire was
captured on records. I think Music and Arts is still collecting live
recordings, of which there must be plenty. I forgot to mention
Gieseking's Mozart recital with Schwartzkopf, a candidate for the hall
of fame.
To my ears, Gieseking was a giant, a far greater pianist and musician in
all respects than people like Michelangeli, Gilels, and a few others
that are mentioned more frequently in this forum. I placed him in my top
10 list without any hesitation.
Regards,
mt
Andy Evans
decades referring to his Debussy as if no other pianists had ten fingers. In
reality there are better Debussy discs from a variety of pianists, notably
Cortot. This view has been stated by a few posters in the Debussy threads.
Andy Evans
Yes, but he can be ignored. If you don't listen to Bach much you'd probably
not put Gould in your top ten, and if you rarely listen to Beethoven sonatas
(like me) you might equally not put Schnabel in your top ten (I didn't). I
have more pressing priorities - Chopin, Russian music. So, for instance I
listen to a lot more Sofronitsky. I enjoy Schnabel - just bought his 3+4 PC
of Beethoven twofer and it's terrific. I'm less fond of endless Beethoven
scales and arpeggios, though he does them as well as one can. Andy
Simon Roberts
: Count Koren is the only one licensed to recommend new pairs of ears...As
: to Gieseking performances, I love his Mozart sonatas and concerti, his
: Schumann, his Beethoven sonatas and concerti, his Debussy (both early
: and late), his Ravel, and so on. His Bach, unfortunately, is not
: sufficiently or well represented in the catalog, but it was supposed to
: be outstanding, too. Both Pearl and Music and Arts have substantial
: retrospectives of Gieseking at various stages of his career -
: unfortunately, only a relatively small fraction of his repertoire was
: captured on records. I think Music and Arts is still collecting live
: recordings, of which there must be plenty. I forgot to mention
: Gieseking's Mozart recital with Schwartzkopf, a candidate for the hall
: of fame.
Hmmm. Tried a M&A set of Beethoven and Bach and thought it awful; don't
much like the Mozart I've heard on EMI, can't listen to Schwarzkopf.
Perhaps I'll try some Schumann....
Simon
samir ghiocel golescu
On 28 Jan 1999, Simon Roberts wrote:
> Perhaps it's just because what he's best at isn't music I listen to, but
> I've never heard a Gieseking performance which I've felt a strong desire
> to hear again. What would you recommend (aside from *a new set of
> ears*)?
Who are you paraphrasing here, if I can ask? (-:
SG
vladimir
Wayne Reimer wrote in message <36AFE3CC...@hooked.net>...
>vladimir wrote:
>>
><...>
>>
>> 10 to remove ("overrated")
>> François - I know none of this artist's recordings.
>> Freire - I know none of this artist's recordings.
>> Haebler - I know none of this artist's recordings.
>
>
Actually, I don't consider them overrated or anything else. The pollster
defined "overrated" to mean "you think they ought not be included in
Phillips Great Pianists series." My criteria for selecting who to omit
was, broadly speaking, who's recordings do I not like. Well, I can't
like theirs because I don't know any of them. Yet - I see from the
latest Berkshire catalog that I can address that shortcoming.
- Phil Caron
A S Graham
In article <78pm4g$4r1$1...@netnews.upenn.edu>, si...@dept.english.upenn.edu
(Simon Roberts) writes:
>
>M-T (matr...@sprintmail.com) wrote:
>
>: Both Pearl and Music and Arts have substantial
>: retrospectives of Gieseking at various stages of his career -
>: unfortunately, only a relatively small fraction of his repertoire was
>: captured on records. I think Music and Arts is still collecting live
>: recordings, of which there must be plenty. I forgot to mention
>: Gieseking's Mozart recital with Schwartzkopf, a candidate for the hall
>: of fame.
>
>Hmmm. Tried a M&A set of Beethoven and Bach and thought it awful; don't
>much like the Mozart I've heard on EMI, can't listen to Schwarzkopf.
>Perhaps I'll try some Schumann....
>
>Simon
If you like Grieg's Lyric Pieces or Mendelssohn's Songs w/out Words, there is
an EMI Reference 2 disc set with a selection of each. I wasn't very impressed
with Gieseking myself, based on his Debussy recordings which while I liked them
did not quite understand the hype they generate. The Grieg/Mendelssohn
impressed me much more.
_________________________________________________
Scott Graham
Monterey, CA
Nicolas Hodges
<n...@nicolashodges.demon.co.uk> writes
>It's taken me a long time to even settle on this mottly crew.
>If I change my mind I'll send in a whole different list in a few days!
>
>Greatest
>
>Gould
>Pollini
>Horowitz
>Sofronitsky
>Lipatti
>Feinberg
>Cortot
>Richter
>Argerich
>Pogorelich
>
>(in no-particular order)
>
>[I've missed out some obvious earlier ones because (1) they're givens,
>(2) there are so many that I couldn't choose.]
>
>Most under-rated
>
>Horowitz
>Dino Ciani
>Pollini
>Feinberg
>Ovchinikov
>Sofronitsky
>Feinberg
+Egorov
Joe Salerno
Beethoven 4th Concerto, intercut with the studio recording - parts of the
live set were gone. The second movement is absolutely incredible. Such a
simple piece really but I have never heard it played so intensely.
--
Joe Salerno
Location Production in Betacam-SP Format
Real Time Non-Linear Editing on Matrox Digisuite/Speed Razor 4.0
PO Box 1487 Bellaire TX 77402 USA
j...@salerno.com -or- jsal...@electrotex.com
http://joe.salerno.com -or- http://www.angelfire.com/biz/ivs/index.html
http://members.tripod.com/~joesalerno/index.html
ICQ#: 20105039
Andy Evans <arts.ps...@cwcom.net> wrote in article
<36b02...@news1.mcmail.com>...
Jeremy Cook
20th Century MEGAPOLL! Cast your votes from 1 to 10 for classical pianists
in each of three categories, in response to the Philips issue of the series
"Great Pianists of the 20th Century."
Category 1 - Greatest Pianists
If you had to select only ten pianists to include in your own personal CD
retrospective, who would you choose?
Category 2 - Most Neglected
Name up to ten pianists that Philips has excluded from their "Great Pianists"
collection that you believe should have been included.
Category 3 - Most Over-Rated
Name up to ten pianists that Philips has selected for their "Great Pianists"
collection that you believe should have been excluded.
The original posting and rules are as follows:
In article <78bdr7$2vh$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>,
jerem...@my-dejanews.com wrote:
> Philips (sponsored by Steinway & Sons) has begun issuing its series "Great
> Pianists of the 20th Century." I propose a poll for our newsgroup, consisting
> of the following three categories:
>
> 1) The 10 *Truly* Greatest Pianists of the 20th Century - I have listed the 71
> entries (below)that Philips has included in their selection (there are 74
> pianists altogether, 71 solo pianists and 2 sets of duo-pianists). Select 10
> (At least 1, no more than 10) from the list, or write in your own candidates,
> numbered from 1 (best) to 10.
>
> 2) The 10 Most Neglected Pianists of the 20th Century - Please list 10
> pianists (At least 1, no more than 10) who are not in the Philips list
> (below), but who you believe should have been included, numbered from 1 (most
> neglected) to 10.
>
> 3) The 10 Most Over-Rated Pianists of the 20th Century - Please list 10
> pianists (At least 1, no more than 10) who you feel should not have been
> included in the Philips list (below), numbered from 1 (most over-rated) to
> 10.
>
> RULES:
>
> - Make sure your post includes the word "MEGAPOLL" in the subject line. This
> is how I will track the voting.
>
> - You may post in one, two, or all three of the above categories, but only
> once per category.
>
> - Pianists listed by Philips as part of a duo-piano team (the Lhevinnes and
> the Burk & Taimanov duo) may be voted as a team or separately, but will not
> be double-counted. Be explicit in your vote.
>
> - Do not exceed the posting limits per category (at least 1, no more than
> 10).
>
> - You must post your vote to rec.music.classical.recordings. Email votes
> will not be counted if they are not posted as well.
>
> - Deadline for voting is midnight EST 1/31/99, according to the date/time
> stamp in DejaNews.
>
> - Please remember to snip the list of pianists from Philips to save bandwidth
> when replying.
>
> I will post the results of the poll in early February. Votes will be
tallied
> as follows: 10 points for a first-place vote, 9 for second-place, etc.
If
> you disregard the posting rules, your votes will be nullified!
>
> Here is the list of the 74 pianists in the Philips series:
>
> Géza Anda
> Martha Argerich
> Claudio Arrau
> Vladimir Ashkenazy
> Wilhelm Backhaus
> Daniel Barenboim
> Jorge Bolet
> Alfred Brendel
> Lyubov Bruk & Mark Taimanov
> Robert Casadesus
> Shura Cherkassky
> Van Cliburn
> Alfred Cortot
> Sir Clifford Curzon
> György Cziffra
> Christoph Eschenbach
> Edwin Fischer
> Leon Fleisher
> Samson François
> Nelson Freire
> Ignaz Friedman
> André Gavrilov
> Walter Wilhelm Gieseking
> Emil Gilels
> Grigori Ginsberg
> Leopold Godowsky
> Glenn Gould
> Friedrich Goulda
> Ingrid Haebler
> Clara Haskil
> Myra Hess
> Josef Hofmann
> Vladimir Horowitz
> Byron Janis
> William Kapell
> Julius Katchen
> Wilhelm Kempff
> Evgeny Kissin
> Zoltán Kocsis
> Stephen Kovacevich
> Alicia de Larrocha
> Josef & Regina Lhévinne
> Dinu Lipatti
> Radu Lupu
> Nikita Magaloff
> Arturo Benedetti Michelangeli
> Benno Moiseiwitsch
> Ivan Moravec
> John Ogdon
> Ignacy Jan Paderewski
> Murray Perahia
> Maria Joâo Pires
> Mikhail Pletnev
> Maurizio Pollini
> André Previn
> Sergei Rachmaninoff
> Sviatoslav Richter
> Artur Rubinstein
> András Schiff
> Artur Schnabel
> Rudolf Serkin
> Vladimir Sofronitzky
> Solomon Cutner
> Rosalyn Tureck
> Mitsuko Uchida
> André Watts
> Alexis Sigismund Weissenberg
> Earl Wild
> Mariya Yudina
> Krystian Zimerman
Simon Roberts
: Sunday, January 31 is your last chance to vote in the Great Pianists of the
: 20th Century MEGAPOLL! Cast your votes from 1 to 10 for classical pianists
: in each of three categories, in response to the Philips issue of the series
: "Great Pianists of the 20th Century."
Having been duly chastised by Jeremy for not paying attention to his
clearly stated rules (what do you expect from a lawyer?), I hereby rescind
my previous attempts at a list or two and substitute the following.
I would remove these pianists from the list:
Kempff
Backhaus
Tureck
Previn
Curzon
Gieseking
Solomon
Haebler
Wild
Anda
I would add these:
Mustonen
Feinberg
Zhukov
Egorov
Annie Fischer
Nat
Ciani
Sokolov
Maria Grinberg
Bunin
I don't much like the idea of ranking these, though; for similar reasons,
I won't list my idea of the ten greatest, as that varies with repertoire
(that may be true of those I would remove, but I wouldn't care if I never
heard any of those pianists play anything ever again and would take any
of the underrated ones over them).
Simon
PGoldst515
Paul Goldstein
Jeremy Cook
si...@dept.english.upenn.edu (Simon Roberts) wrote:
> Jeremy Cook (jerem...@my-dejanews.com) wrote:
> : Sunday, January 31 is your last chance to vote in the Great Pianists of the
> : 20th Century MEGAPOLL! Cast your votes from 1 to 10 for classical
> : pianists
> : in each of three categories, in response to the Philips issue of the series
> : "Great Pianists of the 20th Century."
>
> Having been duly chastised by Jeremy for not paying attention to his
> clearly stated rules (what do you expect from a lawyer?),
A lawyer, eh? I may need to retain your services if any more libelous
remarks about my Wagnerian Heldenpiano recitals are posted. Andy Evans is
off the hook for now, though; he apologized. ;-)
> I hereby rescind
> my previous attempts at a list or two and substitute the following.
[snip]
> I don't much like the idea of ranking these, though;
[snip]
Quite a number of voters apparently didn't like the idea, either; there were
many lists posted which noted that they were "in no particular order," or were
posted alphabetically. So I am going to tally the votes on a one vote = one
point basis, rather than weighting the votes by rank. Results by tomorrow
evening. No wagering, please!
John Harkness
Gould
Richter
Schnabel
Rachmaninoff
Lipatti
Lupu
Argerich
Godowsky
Cortot
Friedman
Arrau
Neglected
Egon Petri
Helene Grimaud
Yves Nat
Ruth Slenczyska
Livia Rev
Marc-Andre Hamelin
Dump'em
Schiff
Uchida
Previn
Gieseking (Sorry, just don't get this guy.)
Clifford Curzon
Christoph Eschenbach
Friedrich Gulda
Murray Perahia
Andre Watts
Alicia dela Roccha
Regards,
John Harkness
Jeremy Cook wrote:
> Sunday, January 31 is your last chance to vote in the Great Pianists of the
> 20th Century MEGAPOLL! Cast your votes from 1 to 10 for classical pianists
> in each of three categories, in response to the Philips issue of the series
> "Great Pianists of the 20th Century."
>
John Harkness
Peter Lemken wrote:
> John Harkness <j...@netcom.ca> wrote:
> >Top Ten
>
> [Snip]
> >Arrau
>
> Ouch.
>
> >
> >Neglected
> >Marc-Andre Hamelin
>
> Ouch.
>
> >
> >Dump'em
> >Friedrich Gulda
> >Alicia dela Roccha
>
> Ouch, ouch.
>
> Peter "just listening to Iberia with Larocha, the Hammerklavier with
> Gulda, comparing Scriabin with Hamelin and Zhukov on hearing them on the
> same piano and refusing to listen to Arrau with whatever" Lemken
>
> Berlin
>
> --
I'll stand by'em
John "who once fell asleep during a Delaroccha recital, who remembers Gulda
doing more bad jazz than any one should be allowed to do without being
imprisoned, listening to Hamelin in Medtner and Alkan, and who believes that
anyone who dislikes Arrau hasn't heard his best recordings" Harkness
Rajeev Aloysius
Jeremy Cook <jerem...@my-dejanews.com> wrote:
> Sunday, January 31 is your last chance to vote in the Great Pianists of the
> 20th Century MEGAPOLL! Cast your votes from 1 to 10 for classical
pianists
> in each of three categories, in response to the Philips issue of the series
> "Great Pianists of the 20th Century."
>
> Category 1 - Greatest Pianists
>
> If you had to select only ten pianists to include in your own personal CD
> retrospective, who would you choose?
4 Martha Argerich
2 Vladimir Ashkenazy
6 Alfred Brendel
5 Vladimir Horowitz
7 Josef Lhévinne
8 Maurizio Pollini
3 Sergei Rachmaninoff
9 Sviatoslav Richter
1 Artur Rubinstein
10 Earl Wild
As for ranking, I think it can't be done!
Rajeev Aloysius
raj...@starmail.com
Please reply to my Email address
Peter Lemken
>Top Ten
[Snip]
>Arrau
Ouch.
>
>Neglected
>Marc-Andre Hamelin
Ouch.
>
>Dump'em
>Friedrich Gulda
>Alicia dela Roccha
Ouch, ouch.
Peter "just listening to Iberia with Larocha, the Hammerklavier with
Gulda, comparing Scriabin with Hamelin and Zhukov on hearing them on the
same piano and refusing to listen to Arrau with whatever" Lemken
Berlin
--
No-SSB International (tm)
Member Number 1,000,012
Believe It (tm)
If You *CAN* Beep, NSI Wants YOU !
http://www.qsl.net/kh2d/nossb.html
Andrys D Basten
Jeremy Cook <jerem...@my-dejanews.com> wrote:
>Sunday, January 31 is your last chance to vote in the Great Pianists of the
>20th Century MEGAPOLL! Cast your votes from 1 to 10 for classical pianists
>in each of three categories, in response to the Philips issue of the series
>"Great Pianists of the 20th Century."
Hmmm - I totally missed this thread. Would someone consider
extending the deadline by a few days so I can get let some music
friends and groups know? Obviously, not important, but a thought.
--
===========================================================
Andrys Basten,SF Bay Area 510/235-3861, Certified Netware Engineer
http://www.andrys.com/books.html -SEARCH for Books/Videos/Classical Music
Also SEARCH =Sheet Music=, Fanfare and Gramophone Reviews
http://www.andrys.com -Online resources
http://www.andrys.com/argerich.html - available Argerich recordings
Have music, will travel: piano, harpsichord, recorders
http://www.andrys.com/indox.html -Peru photos w/Canon Elph
Jeremy Cook
and...@netcom.com (Andrys D Basten) wrote:
> In article <790h9v$sko$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>,
> Jeremy Cook <jerem...@my-dejanews.com> wrote:
> >Sunday, January 31 is your last chance to vote in the Great Pianists of the
> >20th Century MEGAPOLL! Cast your votes from 1 to 10 for classical
> >pianists
> >in each of three categories, in response to the Philips issue of the series
> >"Great Pianists of the 20th Century."
>
> Hmmm - I totally missed this thread. Would someone consider
> extending the deadline by a few days so I can get let some music
> friends and groups know? Obviously, not important, but a thought.
It seems that several people missed the thread, so extending the deadline will
only give a better picture of the newsgroup's overall opinion. I'll post
revised results around the middle of the month, or whenever it seems that the
thread dries up.
Please see my orginal MEGAPOLL post (1/23/99) in DejaNews for the rules. You
don't need to rank your votes from 1 to 10 in each category, however; I am
tallying the results on a one point per vote basis.
Dan Koren
M-T <matr...@sprintmail.com> wrote:
><<1) Art Tatum>>
>
>Yes indeed. Tatum is completely off the scale. No classical pianist, not
>even Horowitz, could play at such speeds and yet with each note
>perfectly distinct and with its exact value - and with a gorgeous sound,
>to boot. Not to mention his ability to improvise, which is unmatched
>among pianists.
>
>I guess we should say that Tatum was the greatest pianist without
>qualification and consider him _hors concours_ in these proceedings.
>
>By the way, if we allowed jazz pianists, we'd have to include guys like
>Earl Hines, Willie "The Lion" Smith, Teddy Wilson, Bud Powell, Hank
>Jones, Bill Evans, Chucho Valdes, and several others. These guys are
>more than a match to any classical pianist.
Not just more than a match. A lot better. And I'm amazed John
Lewis doesn't show anywhere in the list. His WTC is Feinberg
class.
dk
Dan Koren
Simon Roberts <si...@dept.english.upenn.edu> wrote:
>M-T (matr...@sprintmail.com) wrote:
>
>: Count Koren is the only one licensed to recommend new pairs of ears...As
>: to Gieseking performances, I love his Mozart sonatas and concerti, his
>: Schumann, his Beethoven sonatas and concerti, his Debussy (both early
>: and late), his Ravel, and so on. His Bach, unfortunately, is not
>: sufficiently or well represented in the catalog, but it was supposed to
>: retrospectives of Gieseking at various stages of his career -
>: unfortunately, only a relatively small fraction of his repertoire was
>: captured on records. I think Music and Arts is still collecting live
>: recordings, of which there must be plenty. I forgot to mention
>: Gieseking's Mozart recital with Schwartzkopf, a candidate for the hall
>: of fame.
>
>Hmmm. Tried a M&A set of Beethoven and Bach and thought it awful; don't
>much like the Mozart I've heard on EMI, can't listen to Schwarzkopf.
>Perhaps I'll try some Schumann....
Gieseking was not only overrated, but also misrated. A lot of
people think he was best in Mozart and Debussy, and that's
bull. Gieseking's best achievements were Mendelssohn and
Schumann.
dk
Andy Evans
>Lewis doesn't show anywhere in the list. His WTC is Feinberg
>class. >dk
I know Jarrett did the WTC but I was unaware that John Lewis did - very
interesting. Could you tell us more about it? I assume it's OOP. Andy
Dan Koren
OOP in the US but still available as a special import from Japan:
Jp Philips nos. 81350, 19348, 64999, 26085 (4 separate CDs)
The first three make up the complete book 1, the last one is 1/3
of book 2. The project seems to have been abandoned after the 4th
CD was released. And I should mention that JL plays the pieces
out of order and reworks the music to some extent :) so these
might not be to everybody's taste. The pianism, however, and
the empathy with the music are magnificent.
dk
3rd...@altavista.net
Schumann."
I couldn't agree more!
http://www.geocities.com/CollegePark/Library/6735/mozart.html
In article <dkF6Ix...@netcom.com>,
http://www.geocities.com/CollegePark/Library/6735/magazines.html
Chuck Nessa
CN
Edward dimitri Kennaway
>In article <36AFC0...@sprintmail.com>,
>M-T <matr...@sprintmail.com> wrote:
>><<1) Art Tatum>>
>>
>>Yes indeed. Tatum is completely off the scale. No classical pianist, not
>>even Horowitz, could play at such speeds and yet with each note
>>perfectly distinct and with its exact value - and with a gorgeous sound,
>>to boot. Not to mention his ability to improvise, which is unmatched
>>among pianists.
>>
>>I guess we should say that Tatum was the greatest pianist without
>>qualification and consider him _hors concours_ in these proceedings.
>>
>>By the way, if we allowed jazz pianists, we'd have to include guys like
>>Earl Hines, Willie "The Lion" Smith, Teddy Wilson, Bud Powell, Hank
>>Jones, Bill Evans, Chucho Valdes, and several others. These guys are
>>more than a match to any classical pianist.
>
>Lewis doesn't show anywhere in the list. His WTC is Feinberg
>class.
Speaking as I great admirer of Tatum, I nevertheless feel that one
cannot make a meaningful comparison between 'apples' and 'oranges'. We
do not, as a rule, get to hear the great jazz pianists in the
classical repertoire, nor classical pianists in jazz. It is possible,
I think, that the great jazz pianists did not achieve the same degree
of technical accomplishment in, say, octaves and double notes, since
these did not seem to figure much (if at all) in their improvisations.
More than anything else, I'm overawed by the sheer speed of thought
demonstrated by Tatum and others and *wish* I could do it myself!
Still, I wonder how the jazz greats might have coped with the etudes
of Chopin or Liszt, say. (Are there any examples BTW?).
EDK
Otto Renner
d...@netcom.com (Dan Koren) wrote:
> In article <36b6e...@news1.mcmail.com>,
> Andy Evans <arts.ps...@cwcom.net> wrote:
> >>Lewis doesn't show anywhere in the list. His WTC is Feinberg
> >
> >I know Jarrett did the WTC but I was unaware that John Lewis did - very
> >interesting. Could you tell us more about it? I assume it's OOP. Andy
>
> OOP in the US but still available as a special import from Japan:
>
> Jp Philips nos. 81350, 19348, 64999, 26085 (4 separate CDs)
>
> The first three make up the complete book 1, the last one is 1/3
> of book 2. The project seems to have been abandoned after the 4th
> CD was released. And I should mention that JL plays the pieces
> out of order and reworks the music to some extent :) so these
> might not be to everybody's taste. The pianism, however, and
> the empathy with the music are magnificent.
I haven't heard Lewis's WTC recordings, but as a warmup during rehearsals with
him in which I participated (as part of the American Jazz Orchestra) Lewis
would often play some of his concise little improvisations on themes of Bach,
all of which demonstrated his exquisite pianism and lively imagination.
Otto
Andy Evans
>> out of order and reworks the music to some extent :)
of Bach,
I'm curious - is this Jaques Loussier territory? Bass and drums? How much
reworking and how much improvisation? Thanks, Andy
Dan Koren
No, it isn't Jacques Loussier territory. It's a different, and in
some ways a more daring approach. I don't think it makes sense to
explain it in words. I'd suggest borrowing the 1st CD or listening
to it in a store or library if you're wary of spending $20 without
knowing what it is.
dk
Someone
><jerem...@my-dejanews.com> wrote:
>
>It seems that several people missed the thread, so extending the deadline will
>only give a better picture of the newsgroup's overall opinion. I'll post
>revised results around the middle of the month, or whenever it seems that the
>thread dries up.
>
>Please see my orginal MEGAPOLL post (1/23/99) in DejaNews for the rules. You
>don't need to rank your votes from 1 to 10 in each category, however; I am
>tallying the results on a one point per vote basis.
>
>http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
My selections:
===========
-Category 1 - Greatest Pianists:
1. Josef Hofmann
2. Vladimir Horowitz
3. Ignaz Friedman
4. Moriz Rosenthal
5. Emil von Sauer
6. Walter Gieseking
7. Arturo Benedetti Michelangeli
8. Ferruccio Busoni
9. Artur Rubinstein
10. Artur Schnabel
-Category 2 - Most Neglected:
1. Moriz Rosenthal
2. Emil von Sauer
3. Ferruccio Busoni
4. Egon Petri
5. Mieczyslaw Horszowski
6. Etelka Freund
7. Samuel Feinberg
8. Ivo Pogorelich
9. Tatiana Petrovna Nikolayeva
10. Igor Zhukov
-Category 3 - Most Over-Rated:
1. Andre Previn
2. Earl Wild
3. Nikita Magaloff
4. Bruk & Taimanov
5. Zoltan Kocsis
6. Julius Katchen
7. Alexis Weissenberg
8. Stephen Kovacevich
9. Ingrid Haebler
10. Nelson Freire
Matthew B. Tepper
ryz...@math.uchicago.edu pondered what I'm pondering as follows...
>
>On Thu, 4 Feb 1999, Someone wrote:
>
>> -Category 3 - Most Over-Rated:
>
>
>> jo...@dartmouth.edu
>
>May I ask a question about Taimanov? I always knew that he was a great
>chess player who "played piano almost professionally when he was young".
>At least that's what I remember from my chess lessons. However, he was
>almost never mentioned in the "Most overrated" section of the poll. Say,
>Uchida showed up much more frequently, if I remember correctly (do I?).
>Does it mean that most people do regard him highly and I should try to
>hear some of his recordings? Or is it that nobody just cared to mention
>"the obvious fact that he does not belong there"?
>
>Lenya
In my case, it is that I simply had never ever heard of Bruk and/or Taimanov
before I saw the Busoniless, Levitzkiless, Horszowskiless listing of what
somebody supposes to be the "Great Pianists of the 20th Century." They were
the ONLY strict duo-piano team listed (since the volume dedicated to Josef and
Rosina Lhevinne principally consists of recordings of one pianist or the
other); no Gold & Fizdale, no Vronsky & Babin, no Smith & Sellick, no Brothers
Contiguglia, no Brothers Paratore, and (conspicuous given the Philipsische
arse-kissing demonstrated by the inclusion of the undeserving André Previn) no
Soeurs Labèques. Why only this pair?
--
Matthew B. Tepper: WWW, science fiction, classical music, ducks!
My personal home page -- http://www.deltanet.com/~ducky/index.htm
My main music page --- http://www.deltanet.com/~ducky/berlioz.htm
And my science fiction club's home page --- http://www.lasfs.org/
To write to me, do for my address what Androcles did for the lion
Lenya Ryzhik
Dan Koren
Matthew B. Tepper <duckyþ@deltanet.com> wrote:
>In article <Pine.SOL.3.96.990204...@tachyon.uchicago.edu>,
>ryz...@math.uchicago.edu pondered what I'm pondering as follows...
>>
>before I saw the Busoniless, Levitzkiless, Horszowskiless listing of what
>somebody supposes to be the "Great Pianists of the 20th Century." They were
>the ONLY strict duo-piano team listed (since the volume dedicated to Josef and
>Rosina Lhevinne principally consists of recordings of one pianist or the
>other); no Gold & Fizdale, no Vronsky & Babin, no Smith & Sellick, no Brothers
>Contiguglia, no Brothers Paratore, and (conspicuous given the Philipsische
>arse-kissing demonstrated by the inclusion of the undeserving André Previn) no
>Soeurs Labèques. Why only this pair?
Please tell, do the soeurs Labeque, the soeurs Pekinel, and i fratelli
Paratore compete on anything other than looks? btw, the paratore must
be the only piano duo whose 4 hands do not even add up to the 2 hands
of an average pianist...
dk
Chuck Nessa
a Kontarsky, doubt the music and think of their looks.
CN
vladimir
Lenya Ryzhik wrote in message ...
>
>
>May I ask a question about Taimanov? I always knew that he was a great
>chess player who "played piano almost professionally when he was young".
>At least that's what I remember from my chess lessons. However, he was
>almost never mentioned in the "Most overrated" section of the poll. Say,
>Uchida showed up much more frequently, if I remember correctly (do I?).
>Does it mean that most people do regard him highly and I should try to
>hear some of his recordings? Or is it that nobody just cared to mention
>"the obvious fact that he does not belong there"?
>
>Lenya
>
I've never heard Taimanov play piano, but I've seen quite a few of his chess
games. When Bobby Fischer destroyed him 6-0 in a match Taimanov
was quoted as saying, "Well, I still have my music."
- Phil Caron