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Best Rachmaninov Symphonic Dances

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T.H. GILLINGWATER

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Dec 13, 1996, 3:00:00 AM12/13/96
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Any suggestions on the best Rachmaninov Symphonic Dances? Any help much
appreciated!

TomG

Chuck Ross

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Dec 13, 1996, 3:00:00 AM12/13/96
to

Some years ago, the Johanos/Dallas Symphony was the greatest thing since
fried rice, and I'd have to say I've never heard a better recording,
sonically speaking. This recording, in it's LP version, was universally
used as a demo in audio stores.

However, for sheer excitement, performance wise, the Kondrashin gets
the prize, altho it's sound is quite dated.

There are two Kondrashins available:

Kondrashin/Moscow Phil. +The Bells
RCA 32046 $11.20 $10.08

Kondrashin/RCG. +Tchaikovsky: Ste. No. 3
EMR 3962 $20.10 $18.09

The RCA is the one to beat; I have no idea how the EMR recording sounds,
or is performed, for that matter.

--
"Outside of that, Mrs. Lincoln, how did you like the play?"

Michael Lee

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Dec 13, 1996, 3:00:00 AM12/13/96
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On Fri, 13 Dec 1996, T.H. GILLINGWATER wrote:

> Any suggestions on the best Rachmaninov Symphonic Dances? Any help much
> appreciated!

1. Ashkenazy/Royal Concertgebouw (Decca mid price): a wild and furious
reading of the work. Great sound. If you like his Rachmaninov
symphonies, you will like it.

2. Jansons/St. Petersburg PO (EMI full price): powerfully driven and
awesome playing from the orchestra. Good sound. Not as bold as
Ashkenazy's, but equally exciting.

I personally like the Ashkenazy version more because of the
orchestra's richer sound.


Michael Lee
le...@ecf.toronto.edu

Don Patterson

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Dec 13, 1996, 3:00:00 AM12/13/96
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T.H. GILLINGWATER wrote:
>
> Any suggestions on the best Rachmaninov Symphonic Dances? Any help much
> appreciated!
>
> TomG


I think I would probably go with Ormandy/PhO on Sony. Should be pretty cheap. Rach
wrote this piece for them and theirs is still one of the best.

--
Don Patterson
"The President's Own"
United States Marine Band

The views expressed are my own and in no way reflect
those of the U.S. Marine Band or the Marine Corps.

Vodnik

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Dec 13, 1996, 3:00:00 AM12/13/96
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ckr...@enteract.com (Chuck Ross) wrote:

>Some years ago, the Johanos/Dallas Symphony was the greatest
>thing since fried rice, and I'd have to say I've never heard a better
>recording, sonically speaking. This recording, in it's LP version, was
>universally used as a demo in audio stores.

I used it to audition my stereo speakers. This is still a fave of
mine, in performance and recording. It's now in a Vox Box, with
other Johanos/Dallas recordings- incongruously, the Ives Holidays
and Copland ballets. The Rachmaninoff and Ives make it easily
worth the price.

I also love the Ormandy/Philadelphia (the piece was dedicated to
them) on Sony Essential Classics.

-Sol Siegel, Philadelphia, PA
---------------------------------------------------------
"Power corrupts, but I wouldn't mind finding out for myself."

Lani Spahr

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Dec 13, 1996, 3:00:00 AM12/13/96
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In article <32B14E...@leeds.ac.uk>, CHB...@leeds.ac.uk ("T.H. GILLINGWATER") writes:
|> Any suggestions on the best Rachmaninov Symphonic Dances? Any help much
|> appreciated!

I imprinted on Ormandy/Philadelphia (stereo version) on Columbia LP. I don't know if it has appeared on CD, though. I love Ormandy's way with Rachmaninov (and so did Rachmaninov) and the orchestra played it like no other IMHO: full, lush, colorful playing by a virtuoso orchestra.

I also have Slatkin/St.Louis on VoxBox. It's cheap (complete Rachmaninov orchestral music for less than $10 in most places) and very good (IMO of course).

Cheers,
Lani Spahr

Neil Tingley

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Dec 14, 1996, 3:00:00 AM12/14/96
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In article <32B14E...@leeds.ac.uk>, "T.H. GILLINGWATER"
<CHB...@leeds.ac.uk> writes

>Any suggestions on the best Rachmaninov Symphonic Dances? Any help much
>appreciated!
>
>TomG
Kondrashin on a Russian label if you can find it.

Ashkenazy with the Concertgbouw is for me the most perceptive in
cathcing the very subtle idiom of these works. playing is as brilliant
as usual and recording good.

Two piano version: Alexev and Demidenko on Hyperion. Introverted and
dark - plus fabulous two piano suite.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Neil Tingley Furtwaengler FAQ from r.m.c.r contributers at:
ne...@music.demon.co.uk http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/music/ & links to
London, UK G.H Gould and others "more about me" menu.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Don Jones

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Dec 14, 1996, 3:00:00 AM12/14/96
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I have the Novosibirsk Phil Orch by Arnold Katz on Sony. It really
hustles. Those Russians know whereof their Sergei.
Don in Albuquerque

Tony Movshon

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Dec 14, 1996, 3:00:00 AM12/14/96
to

>Any suggestions on the best Rachmaninov Symphonic Dances? Any help much
>appreciated!

For the orchestral version, despite a recording that sounds like it
was made by the KGB in a public bathhouse, the 1963 recording by the
Moscow Philharmonic under Kiril Kondrashin remains unsurpassed for its
combination of raw energy and elan. And what a fine orchestra that
was! It's available on BMG/Melodiya, coupled with a fine performance
of "The Bells". Some way behind in my estimation, but still very fine,
is Previn with the LSO on EMI. I was quite disappointed by the
Ashkenazy version with the Concertgebouw on Decca/London -- quite
soggy. Some will sing the praises of the old Goossens/LSO recording on
Everest. It has some lovely moments but for me lacks energy overall.

Demidenko and Alexeev do a fine job with the 2-piano version on a
Hyperion disk with some interesting Medtner pieces. Argerich and
Rabinovitch on Teldec are very exciting, but when they get *too*
excited their tone gets rather clattery.

Great piece, in either version.

Tony Movshon
Center for Neural Science New York University
http://www.cns.nyu.edu mov...@nyu.edu

Neil Tingley

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Dec 15, 1996, 3:00:00 AM12/15/96
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In article <58ug4r$n...@underdark.highfiber.com>, Don Jones
<cla...@highfiber.com> writes

>I have the Novosibirsk Phil Orch by Arnold Katz on Sony. It really
>hustles. Those Russians know whereof their Sergei.
>Don in Albuquerque
>
>
Interesting you mention Katz. I heard him once in Edinburgh give the
most electrifying a/c of any Tchaikjovsky symphony I've ever heard - he
did the 4th. He came back the next year to give the 2nd Rachy symphony.
Though I wasn't there I heard it over the radio a few weeks later and
was very impressed. Katz is worht going to hear if he's in your
neighbourhood.

Chuck Ross

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Dec 16, 1996, 3:00:00 AM12/16/96
to

Would you please leave my name out of the Subject line?

Thank you.

brthe...@aol.com

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Dec 17, 1996, 3:00:00 AM12/17/96
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In article <58ur12$i...@news.nyu.edu>, to...@cns.nyu.edu (Tony Movshon)
writes:

>
>Demidenko and Alexeev do a fine job with the 2-piano version on a
>Hyperion disk with some interesting Medtner pieces. Argerich and
>Rabinovitch on Teldec are very exciting, but when they get *too*
>excited their tone gets rather clattery.
>
>

Those are distinguished versions, but I keep coming back to Decca's
Previn/Askenazy collaboration, which I find more moving.

Brthe...@aol.com (John Blair)

Michael Lee

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Dec 18, 1996, 3:00:00 AM12/18/96
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On 17 Dec 1996 brthe...@aol.com wrote:

> >Demidenko and Alexeev...


>
> Those are distinguished versions, but I keep coming back to Decca's
> Previn/Askenazy collaboration, which I find more moving.

I agree. Previn and Ashkenazy were born with Rachmaninov's music
in their blood. Their recordings of the Rachmaninov symphonies are still
among the very best ever recorded, not to mention the piano concerto cycle
they did together (there might be better individual performances, but as a
cycle, it is second to none). They really make music in the recording of
the 2-piano version of the Dances, instead of showing off their techniques
like so many of their competitors.

Michael Lee
le...@ecf.toronto.edu

Dirk Kussin

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Dec 18, 1996, 3:00:00 AM12/18/96
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In article <Pine.SGI.3.91.961213...@skule.ecf>
Michael Lee <le...@ecf.toronto.edu> writes:

Michael> On Fri, 13 Dec 1996, T.H. GILLINGWATER wrote:
>> Any suggestions on the best Rachmaninov Symphonic Dances? Any help
>> much appreciated!

Michael> 1. Ashkenazy/Royal Concertgebouw (Decca mid price): a wild
Michael> and furious reading of the work. Great sound. If you like
Michael> his Rachmaninov symphonies, you will like it.

Michael> 2. Jansons/St. Petersburg PO (EMI full price): powerfully
Michael> driven and awesome playing from the orchestra. Good sound.
Michael> Not as bold as Ashkenazy's, but equally exciting.

Michael> I personally like the Ashkenazy version more because of the
Michael> orchestra's richer sound.


Michael> Michael Lee le...@ecf.toronto.edu

Michael, I also have these two versions, and I'm completely of your
opinion! For interested readers: Jansons' is coupled with Rach's 3rd
symph., but I think there a two different releases of Ashkenazy's,
which is either coupled with the 3rd symph., or the Isle of the Dead
(also a lovely piece).
--

Dirk

gggg...@gmail.com

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Aug 23, 2016, 7:08:05 PM8/23/16
to
On Thursday, December 12, 1996 at 10:00:00 PM UTC-10, T.H. GILLINGWATER wrote:
> Any suggestions on the best Rachmaninov Symphonic Dances? Any help much
> appreciated!
>
> TomG

Recent list of recommended recordings:

http://www.musicweb-international.com/mwi-recommends.htm

dk

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Aug 23, 2016, 9:25:50 PM8/23/16
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On Tuesday, August 23, 2016 at 4:08:05 PM UTC-7, gggg...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Thursday, December 12, 1996 at 10:00:00 PM UTC-10, T.H. GILLINGWATER wrote:
> > Any suggestions on the best Rachmaninov
> > Symphonic Dances? Any help much appreciated!
>
> Recent list of recommended recordings:
>
> http://www.musicweb-international.com/mwi-recommends.htm

Reviving a 20 year old thread!
This must be a new record of sorts for r.m.c.r.!

dk

Michael Lee

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Aug 23, 2016, 11:38:57 PM8/23/16
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Happy vigintennary!

Michael Lee

Frank Berger

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Aug 24, 2016, 12:20:24 AM8/24/16
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Is there some way to tell when each of Musicweb's "Recent
list of recommended recordings" was actually made?

---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

graham

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Aug 24, 2016, 12:33:41 AM8/24/16
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On 8/23/2016 10:20 PM, Frank Berger wrote:
> On 8/23/2016 11:38 PM, Michael Lee wrote:
>> On Tuesday, August 23, 2016 at 9:25:50 PM UTC-4, dk wrote:
>>> On Tuesday, August 23, 2016 at 4:08:05 PM UTC-7, gggg...@gmail.com
>>> wrote:
>>>> On Thursday, December 12, 1996 at 10:00:00 PM UTC-10, T.H.
>>>> GILLINGWATER wrote:
>>>>> Any suggestions on the best Rachmaninov
>>>>> Symphonic Dances? Any help much appreciated!
>>>>
>>>> Recent list of recommended recordings:
>>>>
>>>> http://www.musicweb-international.com/mwi-recommends.htm
>>>
>>> Reviving a 20 year old thread!
>>> This must be a new record of sorts for r.m.c.r.!
>>>
>>> dk
>>
>> Happy vigintennary!
>>
>> Michael Lee
>>
>
> Is there some way to tell when each of Musicweb's "Recent list of
> recommended recordings" was actually made?
>
Ask gggg! ;-)

Kerrison

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Aug 24, 2016, 4:59:17 AM8/24/16
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> >
> > Is there some way to tell when each of Musicweb's "Recent list of
> > recommended recordings" was actually made?
> >
> Ask gggg! ;-)

Since we're delving back into the distant past, I thought I'd mention the Goossens / LSO 'Everest' 35mm version which still sounds fine to me. There's a nice video of the 2nd Dance on You Tube that can act as a kind of 'taster' ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aSHbMdOT3P0





JohnGavin

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Aug 24, 2016, 9:41:14 AM8/24/16
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On Wednesday, August 24, 2016 at 4:59:17 AM UTC-4, Kerrison wrote:
> > >
I recommend Jeremy Filsell's all-Rach organ transcription recording including the Symphonic Dances.

He demonstrates and discusses these works here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x5OiOWQZDYw

Kerrison

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Aug 26, 2016, 5:21:18 AM8/26/16
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Two days ago, Marin Alsop conducted the Sao Paolo Orchestra in this work at the BBC Proms in London. Her very speedy tempo for the first 'Symphonic Dance' raised again the question of the published marking: "Non Allegro." I believe it's been suggested in the past that it was a printing error and should actually have been just "Allegro."

Does any Rachmaninov expert know of this story and whether it is correct or not? Presumably the original manuscript must still be around and could be checked to see what exactly the composer wrote. Even so, "Non Allegro" is a very strange marking. Why not "Allegro ma non troppo" or "Allegro moderato" or something similar?

If this link works, it's the replay of the BBC radio broadcast ...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b07pjbdm

mrs...@gmail.com

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Aug 26, 2016, 8:21:04 PM8/26/16
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On Friday, August 26, 2016 at 11:21:18 AM UTC+2, Kerrison wrote:
Her very speedy tempo for the first 'Symphonic Dance' raised again the question of the published marking: "Non Allegro." I believe it's been suggested in the past that it was a printing error and should actually have been just "Allegro."


I'm certainly no expert but 2nd movement of his 2nd piano sonata is also marked Non Allegro, doubt it can be same printing error in two separate pieces of music.

3Bs

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Aug 30, 2016, 8:18:32 AM8/30/16
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On Friday, December 13, 1996 at 2:00:00 AM UTC-6, Chuck Ross wrote:
> Some years ago, the Johanos/Dallas Symphony was the greatest thing since
> fried rice, and I'd have to say I've never heard a better recording,
> sonically speaking. This recording, in it's LP version, was universally
> used as a demo in audio stores.

I realize this recording mat have something. to it, but I find the performance too careful; there never seems a moment where momentum becomes completely natural. I suppose if you can adjust to the deliberateness, there might be something to love. Not for me.

And I'm not convinced that the sound merits really stand out in this day. I don't hear a hall, but a dry box of a recording venue.

I've been listening a lot to the Petrenko/Chicago performance that you can probably stream on their site. I'm not objective- I was at one of the concerts, but it still sounds staggeringly great to me.

3Bs

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Aug 30, 2016, 8:21:06 AM8/30/16
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On Friday, December 13, 1996 at 2:00:00 AM UTC-6, Chuck Ross wrote:
> However, for sheer excitement, performance wise, the Kondrashin gets
> the prize, altho it's sound is quite dated.
>
> There are two Kondrashins available:
> Kondrashin/Moscow Phil. +The Bells
> RCA 32046 $11.20 $10.08

Just grabbed this on AMazon for $5 incl shipping. Thanks for the pointer.

Neil

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Aug 30, 2016, 8:45:37 AM8/30/16
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Very strange seeing a reply to this question I wrote in 1996!

Bozo

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Aug 30, 2016, 9:45:50 AM8/30/16
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>On Friday, August 26, 2016 at 7:21:04 PM UTC-5, mrs...@gmail.com wrote:
> I'm certainly no expert but 2nd movement of his 2nd piano sonata is also marked >Non Allegro, doubt it can be same printing error in two separate pieces of music.

Yes, seems the composer may have wanted to give the pianist great flexibility in this transition passage, also added " express.", but with a cautionary note as 7 bars later the marking goes to " lento ." ?

Gerard

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Aug 30, 2016, 11:33:14 AM8/30/16
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"3Bs" wrote in message
news:8ab3fc4a-ac5b-4c17...@googlegroups.com...
=====================

After 20 years?
I suppose that the mentioned recording on RCA is his Melodiya recording.
Which other recording by Kondrashin is available?
I see his RCO recording here:
https://www.amazon.com/Tchaikovsky-Suite-Rachmaninov-Symphonic-Dances/dp/B00008F172/
But for 200 USD (!).

Kerrison

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Aug 30, 2016, 12:45:13 PM8/30/16
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On Tuesday, August 30, 2016 at 4:33:14 PM UTC+1, Gerard wrote:
> "3Bs" wrote in message .
The Kondrashin / Moscow Philharmonic recording is on You Tube. I see someone in the comments section under the video says "I love the tempo!" ... Indeed. None of this "Non allegro" nonsense from Kirill! ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E5e8-_ICZoI

His Concertgebouw version isn't on YouTube which is a pity as it would save you $200 :)


Gerard

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Aug 30, 2016, 2:08:34 PM8/30/16
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"Kerrison" wrote in message
news:76275d78-492c-4c0b...@googlegroups.com...
=======================

It would save me nothing ;-)
A few years ago I've bought 3 copies for around 5 Euros each.
The performance is good, but does not have the white hot character the
Melodiya recording has. And the sound is not ideal, although better than on
the Melodiya discs.



jrsnfld

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Aug 30, 2016, 2:49:43 PM8/30/16
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On Tuesday, August 30, 2016 at 11:08:34 AM UTC-7, Gerard wrote:
> "Kerrison" wrote in message
Most importantly, the orchestras are quite different and it's good to have Kondrashin with the Concertgebouw. I suppose the Globe disc would be even more essential if Ashkenazy had not recorded the same work with the same orchestra, but the coupling is also a good justification for seeking and purchasing (at a reasonable price) even when you have the RCA/BMG release....

One bracing alternative that ought to be on the short list of Symphonic Dances:

Pavel Kogan/Moscow St. SO.

The tempo is remarkably quick to start, but what really grabs me is the vivid (and vividly recorded) and modern orchestral textures, the ripely romantic statements of the melodies juxtaposed with aggressive rhythms. The parallels to Stravinsky are as apparent as ever.

--Jeff

cooper...@gmail.com

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Aug 30, 2016, 3:57:22 PM8/30/16
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No love for Jansons/St. Petersburg? I think it's terrific, and especially recommend the single CD c/w with Sym #3 (https://www.amazon.com/Rachmaninov-Symphony-No-Symphonic-Dances/dp/B0001HAHKU/ , where I see a new copy for under $5). Those are the conductor's two finest Rachmaninoff recordings by far, imo.

AC

Gerard

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Aug 30, 2016, 4:39:55 PM8/30/16
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wrote in message
news:316c11ae-a48e-44ce...@googlegroups.com...
=================

Correct. The short list on the website of MusicWeb is too short.
Jansons's 1st recordng should be there.
Kogan, and Termirkanov of course. Other recording(s) by Svetlanov.
How about Litton's 2 recordings? Edo de Waart (Exton)? Ashkenazy (Exton)?

Gerard

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Aug 30, 2016, 4:39:55 PM8/30/16
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"jrsnfld" wrote in message
news:87c0d104-a45f-4708...@googlegroups.com...
===================

I don't know a Globe disc with Kondrashin conducting the Symphonic Dances.
The disc I have is on the label Emergo - as on the amazon site:
https://www.amazon.com/Tchaikovsky-Suite-Rachmaninov-Symphonic-Dances/dp/B00008F172/
Did Globe release the same recording?

BTW the RCO has made a recording with Jansons as well.
I've never bought it, partially because reviews are not favorable -
partially because Jansons only was RErecording in that period.





jrsnfld

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Aug 30, 2016, 7:22:37 PM8/30/16
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On Tuesday, August 30, 2016 at 1:39:55 PM UTC-7, Gerard wrote:
> "jrsnfld" wrote in message
No. I just got the two labels mixed up in my mind, probably because there are a couple of Kondrashin discs on Globe with (Piotr and Boris) Tchaikovsky. Thanks for correcting.

>
> BTW the RCO has made a recording with Jansons as well.
> I've never bought it, partially because reviews are not favorable -
> partially because Jansons only was RErecording in that period.

I saved a Jansons/Concertgebouw performance from online broadcast...probably the same as what's on the recording. Despite vague memories of liking it, I haven't gone back to listen again.

--Jeff

Gerard

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Aug 31, 2016, 5:35:08 AM8/31/16
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"jrsnfld" wrote in message
news:b1dafdbb-8ffc-455d...@googlegroups.com...
========================




Very understandable.
I hardly have seen other discs on that label Emergo (I only know about one,
something by Mozart).

OTOH Globe has issued more live recordings by Kondrashin, with the RCO (and
other orchestras).
(But their website only shows 1 recording with Kondrashin - Tchaikovsky
symphony 6/Nutcracker.
That website is not updated since 2013 - or is Globe defunct?)

Gerard

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Aug 31, 2016, 6:15:15 AM8/31/16
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"Gerard" wrote in message
news:ec533$57c5ef19$546845b9$51...@news.ziggo.nl...
===========

I forgot about Oue.
And Katz, and Polyansky.

3Bs

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Aug 31, 2016, 4:26:03 PM8/31/16
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On Tuesday, August 30, 2016 at 2:57:22 PM UTC-5, cooper...@gmail.com wrote:
> No love for Jansons/St. Petersburg? I think it's terrific, and especially recommend the single CD c/w with Sym #3 (https://www.amazon.com/Rachmaninov-Symphony-No-Symphonic-Dances/dp/B0001HAHKU/ , where I see a new copy for under $5). Those are the conductor's two finest Rachmaninoff recordings by far, imo.

The Absolute Sound near me has it as a demo disc, so I've listened to it most underneath Audeze headphones that I'll never own. My god, the recording sounds wonderful!

3Bs

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Aug 31, 2016, 4:29:08 PM8/31/16
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Ha! So many threads are get resurrected in Google groups if a new discussion has the same subject. But the joke is even more valid considering I was around to read that discussion in the first place, so it really did take 20 years.

Gerard

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Sep 1, 2016, 6:32:15 AM9/1/16
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"3Bs" wrote in message
news:ce9dcb95-d934-4984...@googlegroups.com...
==================

Maybe the recordings by Oue and Petrenko are candidates for becoming your
favorites.

3Bs

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Sep 6, 2016, 1:19:51 PM9/6/16
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On Tuesday, August 30, 2016 at 7:45:37 AM UTC-5, Neil wrote:
> > > There are two Kondrashins available:
> > > Kondrashin/Moscow Phil. +The Bells
> > > RCA 32046 $11.20 $10.08
> >
> > Just grabbed this on Amazon for $5 incl shipping. Thanks for the pointer.
>
> Very strange seeing a reply to this question I wrote in 1996!

Got this disc today. Definitely a great reading of the SD. Only a bit disappointed that the dynamic range gets compressed in the third movement finale, but this isn't as horrible a Melodiya recording as I expected. Kondrashin does a great job playing up each moment- he knows what he is doing, for sure. My current favorite is Petrenko/Chicago (stream it from their site) where the dynamics are fantastic. Petrenko is a bit cooler and modern sounding and some moments, an approach I like as well. But the Kondrashin holds its own, for sure. Will probably listen to it again this afternoon.

Kerrison

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Sep 6, 2016, 6:39:41 PM9/6/16
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For purely historical interest, what seems to be the premiere recording of the work is on YouTube: a scratchy 1953 'Columbia' LP made by Leinsdorf and the Rochester Philharmonic that features quite a bright and breezy opening to the first movement ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fvE9Red30w8



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