Van Cliburn's historic 1958 Carnegie WQXR broadcast - complete concert

[Bozo]

The entire historic concert of May 19,1958, live in Carnegie Hall, WQXR's George Allen host. I had not realized Kondrashin conducted the Symphony of the Air in Prokofieff's "Classical" Symphony as the opening work. The Tchaikovsky and Rachmaninoff concertos followed in that order. I do not recall ever hearing this live Tchaikovsky, only the best-selling RCA lp recorded shortly after. RCA of course did release an lp of the live Rach 3. Sound here not great, but to be expected. It appears the piano bench may have been a problem for Cliburn during the Tchaikovsky.

The Safari browser may not be compatible here, suggest Mozilla, but may have been just my Mac :

http://tch15.medici.tv/en/news/van-cliburn-in-1958-in-partnership-with-wqxr

Allen reports that the orchestra liked the " young" conductor, " flipped " over him. Another factoid not known to me, one other American pianist participated in the Moscow Competition, Daniel Pollack , now 80.

Cliburn and Mayor Wagner address the audience just before the Rachmaninoff,

In the first mov. of the Tchaikovsky there seemed a drive, edginess, and rubato, not present in the later PIT recording . Seemed Cliburn was more relaxed from the slow mov. on then, here. I did not listen to the Rachmaninoff, yet. Must mow my yard before more rain arrives, then relax with a Point "Beyond the Pale " IPA and the Rach 3 if the Medici site will allow me to hold my place. My sense is the Rach was the more successful musically of the 2 concertos, but probably just my preference between the works.

[Bozo]

>On Sunday, June 14, 2015 at 1:59:10 PM UTC-5, Bozo wrote:
> My sense is the Rach was the more successful musically of the 2 concertos, >but >probably just my preference between the works.

The live broadcast reveals how Cliburn's understandable first half tension resolved into the more relaxed, more golden toned , and thus one of the most memorable , Rach 3's I've ever heard, almost 2 different pianists. On balance, I prefer the RCA lp of the PIT Pico over the live 1958 ; the live 1958 Rach 3 one of the great recordings of all time.

Encores also on the broadcast :

Rachmaninoff , Etude Tableaux , Op.39, # 5
Liszt, Rhapsody No.12

[lgan...@gmail.com]

On Sunday, June 14, 2015 at 1:59:10 PM UTC-5, Bozo wrote:

Many thanks for sharing this. I have long wondered why RCA recorded the Tchaik under studio conditions the next day rather than release the live Carnegie Hall recording, as they did with the Rach 3 on the second half. I had heard that Van made some slips in the Tchaik and didn't want it released. Now that I've heard it, I can see the wisdom of that decision. The smudges and minor ensemble discrepancies aren't catastrophic, but would be more irritating in repeated hearings.

Also: does anyone know why the orchestra on the commercially released Tchaik 1 was not the Symphony of the Air? Were they busy the next day? Was Kondrashin unhappy with their work in the Tchaikovsky?

Mark

[Bozo]

>On Monday, June 15, 2015 at 5:16:55 PM UTC-5, lgan...@gmail.com wrote:

I, too, prefer the studio PIT Pico. The smudges did not bother me, VC's nervousness did, thankfully resolved by the second half into one of my fav Rach 3 recordings.

I cannot answer your questions about the orchestra ; some here probably can. I would speculate that the live " Symphony of the Air" and the studio "RCA Symphony Orchestra " may have been largely the same orchestra ?

[Jerry]

I'd also be interested in whether anyone can explain the change in
orchestra between the concert (May 19) and studio session (May 30)
for the PIT 1st P.C..

I realize that the "RCA Victor S.O." is most likely a "pick-up"
ensemble,'but thought the Symphony of the Air was an ongoing concern
with a set roster until they disbanded.


I also can't help but imagine how this noted artist (K.K.) of the USSR
might have passed his time in Manhattan during a couple of weeks in 1958.


The LPs he recorded with a pick-up orchestra later that year
(the Oct., '58 sessions for the Kabalevsky, Khachaturian, Tchaikovsky,
and Rimsky-Korsakov works) are stunning. They're all on a
single RCA Living Stereo CD and should'nt be missed.

Jerry

[Mort]

Jerry wrote:
> The LPs he recorded with a pick-up orchestra later that year
> (the Oct., '58 sessions for the Kabalevsky, Khachaturian, Tchaikovsky,
> and Rimsky-Korsakov works) are stunning. They're all on a
> single RCA Living Stereo CD and should'nt be missed.
>
> Jerry

Hi,

That lovely Kondrashin recording is advertised on several sites as being
available as a hybrid SACD, but each inquiry by me for about a year is
met with a response that it is on backorder. Do you, or any other n.g.
member, know where I can purchase it? Thanks.

Mort Linder

[Frank Berger]

> The LPs he recorded with a pick-up orchestra later that year
> (the Oct., '58 sessions for the Kabalevsky, Khachaturian, Tchaikovsky,
> and Rimsky-Korsakov works) are stunning. They're all on a
> single RCA Living Stereo CD and should'nt be missed.
>
> Jerry
>
>

One of my favorite CDs.

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[Saint Russell]

I haven't yet had an opportunity to listen to the entire concert, but I wonder, is the May 19 date correct? The announcer mentions that there were four Cliburn/Kondrashin concerts, and two of them were in New York. Note this listing that gives May 26 as the date for a recording broadcast on WQXR:

http://beta.worldcat.org/archivegrid/collection/data/794233087

I've seen a photo of the Tchaikovsky concerto on 16" Voice of America transcription discs, on a dealer's auction list some years ago. Going by this, VOA's recording is also of the May 26 concert:

http://beta.worldcat.org/archivegrid/collection/data/64213096

Everywhere I've looked, May 19 is given as the date for RCA's Rachmaninoff Third. It might be worth a detailed comparison to identify the broadcast as different from, or the same as, the RCA issue.

[Saint Russell]

Here's a contemporary account that says WQXR aired the second concert, not the first.

The Billboard, May 26, 1958

CLIBURN MOSCOW TAPE GIVES VICTOR A SHOCK

NEW YORK -- RCA Victor, busy with plans for pianist Van Cliburn's debut on the label, got a major fright last Monday (19).

WBAI-FM, local longhair indie, produced the shock, by suddenly airing a two-hour tape recording of Van Cliburn's pianistic fireworks at the closing concert at the Moscow Conservatory on April 14.

Highlight of the recording, produced for WBAI in a cultural swap arrangement with Radio Moscow, was Cliburn's keyboarding on Tchaikovsky's First Piano Concerto - the performance that landed Cliburn his Russian award. Tape arrived in New York the previous Friday (16).

Radio performance, which coincided with Van Cliburn's Carnegie Hall concert, thus amounted to a "preview" of the young artist's scheduled recording of the same work for early release by RCA Victor.

Having scored a similar beat with a radio premiere of Shostakovich's 11th Symphony thru its overseas tie-ups, WBAI-FM execs now plan to air the Van Cliburn tape again - this time with plenty of advance promotion - on June 6.

Thr Russian-made tapes, however, will not get widespread circulation in the U.S., altho not for lack of demand. The deal between the New York FM outlet and the Russians is for exclusive, non-commercial, educational uses of swapped material. There will definitely be no commercial record version.

Van Cliburn, meanwhile, will have his second concert aired on New York's WQXR, Times-owned radio outlet, shortly, and is due for an Ed Murrow "Person-to-Person" visit on CBS-TV next Friday (30).

[Mark Obert-Thorn]

On Monday, June 15, 2015 at 7:40:28 PM UTC-4, Jerry wrote:
> I'd also be interested in whether anyone can explain the change in
> orchestra between the concert (May 19) and studio session (May 30)
> for the PIT 1st P.C..
>
> I realize that the "RCA Victor S.O." is most likely a "pick-up"
> ensemble,'but thought the Symphony of the Air was an ongoing concern
> with a set roster until they disbanded.

I had always wondered about the ensemble, too, since the original LPs were credited not to the RCA Victor SO but to just plain "Orchestra". I copied the personnel sheet for that session when I was at BMG Listings once, and there were a number of non-SOA players involved, including members of the Philharmonic and many freelancers. The ensemble included Oscar Shumsky (concertmaster), William Lincer, Walter Trampler, Emmanuel Vardi, Nicholas Moldavan, Felix Galimir, Harvey Shapiro, Stefan Auber, Julius Baker and Robert Bloom, among others.

Interestingly, the Tchaikovsky was recorded three times over as many days. On May 28, 1958, a session was held in Manhattan Center. The following day, a second session was held in Carnegie Hall from 3 to 6 p.m. Finally, a third session was held from midnight to 5 a.m. on May 30th. The published recording comes entirely from that third session.

I also found that Cliburn made two recordings with Munch and the BSO on October 6, 1958: a complete Schumann Concerto, predating the published version with Reiner by over a year; and the first movement only of the Rach 3 -- oddly, since RCA already had the live recording from May 19th with Kondrashin in the can, but not yet released. I guess someone thought that a studio recording might come out sounding better, but ultimately they went with the live one.

Mark O-T

[markm]

Thanks for clarifying the recorded dates of the Tchaikovsky. I never knew that the studio sessions for the Tchaikovsky concerto came more than a week after the concert with the live recording of the Rach 3. Cliburn was a goldmine for RCA in those first years after winning the Tchaikovsky competition, and probably received whatever he wanted (within reason) for those first recordings. Whatever RCA spent for the multiple recording sessions for the Tchaikovsky Concerto was a tiny fraction of the ultimate gross of the recordings.

Mark

[Herman]

On Tuesday, June 16, 2015 at 4:17:58 AM UTC+2, Mark Obert-Thorn wrote:

>
> Interestingly, the Tchaikovsky was recorded three times over as many days. On May 28, 1958, a session was held in Manhattan Center. The following day, a second session was held in Carnegie Hall from 3 to 6 p.m. Finally, a third session was held from midnight to 5 a.m. on May 30th. The published recording comes entirely from that third session.
>

Looks like working in a coal mine.

[Saint Russell]

Do you know if the Rachmaninoff was released as-is? I've never noticed any edits. The WQXR broadcast has a couple smudges, nothing major.

[Bozo]

>On Tuesday, June 16, 2015 at 1:20:58 AM UTC-5, Saint Russell wrote:
>Do you know if the Rachmaninoff was released as-is? I've never noticed any edits. The WQXR >broadcast has a couple smudges, nothing major.

My ears may be faulty, but I thought the final bars of the WQXR Rach 3 were at slightly slower pace than the RCA lp ?

[MiNe109]

Van Cliburn was a night owl.

Stephen

[Bozo]

>On Tuesday, June 16, 2015 at 12:59:54 AM UTC-5, Herman wrote:
>Looks like working in a coal mine.

Indeed , 5 Tchaikovsky #1 in about 2 weeks .

I recall a Des Moines recital , 1960-1962, where he
started a bit late,resulting in some audience clapping, came out a bit
perturbed, launched into the "Star Spangled Banner" , which caught the
audience by surprise. His last piece was the Barber Sonata, I had
never heard before ( was 12-14 at the time). In the Green Room , while
he signed my programme, I complimented him on the Barber Fuga, he
misunderstood, and said, "And you play the Barber ?", at which point
Rilda Bee, at his elbow, of course, interrupted to correct him, and he
looked at me a little hurt as if I had tried to fool him.

Then, in 1968 in Minneapolis, his 10th Moscow Anniversary, playing the
Tchaikovsky 1 and Rach 2 with the MSO and Skroweczeski, a bit
harried,not seeingly happy,thru the motions, 4 encores including the
Szymanowski Etude and Chopin Heroic Polonaise without really waiting
for the audience to ask; this time it was I who left a bit saddened.

[Saint Russell]

On Tuesday, June 16, 2015 at 7:54:18 AM UTC-4, Bozo wrote:
> My ears may be faulty, but I thought the final bars of the WQXR Rach 3 were at slightly slower pace than the RCA lp ?

Yes, I think you're right. I'm wondering if RCA issued the May 19 performance without edits, or if they patched it with anything from the May 26 performance broadcast by WQXR (if in fact RCA made a recording of that concert), or with material from the recording sessions otherwise devoted to Tchaikovsky, or even the recording with Munch.

[LarryLap]

You describe what became the typical experience of the audience at a Cliburn recital: spending an hour and a half watching an uneasy and disdainful artist deliver detached, and even perfunctory performances to listeners he plainly felt were unworthy. I attended three such recitals, one in LA, one in San Francisco and one at Carnegie Hall, the last of which was so disagreeable, I thought of walking out at intermission. In my experience, Cliburn was only at ease when performing with orchestra. Even then, he could be remote and uninvolved, as he was during a performance with Mehta and the LA Phil at the Hollywood Bowl in about 1970. I don't recall the concerto he performed, but it was disappointingly dull. When, however, he returned to the stage with Mehta to perform the third movement of the Tchaikovsky Concerto as an encore, it was as though a different man had taken his place, so vital, colorful and daring was his playing. Shades of his sad later career, in which his repertoire had shrunk to that single work.