BREAKING: Hurwitz creates YouTube channel, trashes Svetlanov's Mahler cycle

[Oscar]

Uploaded 5/26/20: "Evgeny Svetlanov thoroughly humiliates himself with this ghastly set of Mahler symphonies (Warner Classics). You can do better anywhere else."
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UBvECavsdog&fbclid=IwAR0x51WzCeJSCgMLIHr3E8yfXB-283X8Cb3EfwRttl9QfELaLtDbf9YtlQg

In the past 2 weeks he has uploaded 67 videos produced in spartan, iso-quarantine fashion, mostly reviewing recordings but also sprinkled in are some "music chats" . . . with himself.

Enjoy, and you're welcome.

P.S. I've subscribed!

[Frank Berger]

Interesting. Can a person be "humiliated" if he doesn't
feel humiliated?

[earb...@gmail.com]

Can one be humiliated if no longer living?

[Frank Berger]

On 5/28/2020 6:21 PM, earb...@gmail.com wrote:
> Can one be humiliated if no longer living?
>

Oy.

[msw design]

On Thursday, May 28, 2020 at 3:20:12 PM UTC-5, Oscar wrote:

> In the past 2 weeks he has uploaded 67 videos produced in spartan, iso-quarantine fashion, mostly reviewing recordings but also sprinkled in are some "music chats" . . . with himself.

We are 67 videos in and he still hasn't figured out how to stabilize his camera? Yeesh.

[number_six]

On Thursday, May 28, 2020 at 3:21:56 PM UTC-7, earb wrote:
> Can one be humiliated if no longer living?

The most embarrassed composer could be Francis CHAGRIN

He can be heard on vol 5 of Dutton's British Light Music Premieres

[car...@cua.edu]

I don't take anything Mr. Hurwitz says seriously. To me he is a pompous gasbag.

[RANDY WOLFGANG]

you are not alone

[Mr. Mike]

On Thu, 28 May 2020 19:02:03 -0700 (PDT), car...@cua.edu wrote:

>I don't take anything Mr. Hurwitz says seriously. To me he is a pompous gasbag.

What an irritating individual.

I only listened to this "review" of the Svetlanov Mahler box.

Some audio excerpts would have been much more interesting than
listening to him try to use every possible synonym in his thesaurus
for "bad."

[Al Eisner]

That's even worse!
--
Al Eisner

[sfr...@nycap.rr.com]

On Thursday, May 28, 2020 at 10:02:06 PM UTC-4, car...@cua.edu wrote:
>

> I don't take anything Mr. Hurwitz says seriously. To me he is a pompous gasbag.

Really? I'm not trying to start a fight or anything but I appreciate what he does. He clearly loves CM and has informed opinions about recordings which he generously shares with us. Educated, knowledgeable entertaining -- what more could you want? I recently purchased the 10-disc Sandor Vegh set of Mozart Serenades & Divertimenti on his recommendation and it's wonderful. I have several other recordings I only purchased because of his reviews. I even have some I bought because he said they were CDs from Hell. And I like some of them too! He provides what I get from magazines and from this NG and does it all for free. I'll be he even helps little old ladies cross the street. What a guy!

Just my 2 cents.

MIFrost

[Hank Drake]

On Friday, May 29, 2020 at 8:16:42 AM UTC-4, sfr...@nycap.rr.com wrote:
> Really? I'm not trying to start a fight or anything but I appreciate what he does. He clearly loves CM and has informed opinions about recordings which he generously shares with us. Educated, knowledgeable entertaining -- what more could you want? I recently purchased the 10-disc Sandor Vegh set of Mozart Serenades & Divertimenti on his recommendation and it's wonderful. I have several other recordings I only purchased because of his reviews. I even have some I bought because he said they were CDs from Hell. And I like some of them too! He provides what I get from magazines and from this NG and does it all for free. I'll be he even helps little old ladies cross the street. What a guy!
>
> Just my 2 cents.
>
> MIFrost

Agreed. I find most of his reviews entertaining and even charming. I don't necessarily agree with everything he says, but he has a definite point of view and that view is backed up by solid knowledge. If one doesn't agree, as Vladimir Horowitz once said "It's just opinion!".

Hank

[sci.space]

Chagrin was Romanian, spend most of his professional life in England. For some odd reason he took the name Chagrin, not his birth name.

[Hank Drake]

It's also amusing Hurwitz wears a new shirt for each video, although he's posting (and probably filming) multiple videos per day. Also he wears a tie for his review of Beethoven's 9th discs because "one HAS to wear a tie for Beethoven's 9th". For me, one of the few benefits of this whole lockdown has been that I haven't worn a dress shirt since April.

Hank

[Bob Harper]

I agree with you both. Yes, Hurwitz can be a pompous gasbag, but he is
also well-informed and knowledgeable. He can be obsessive--vibrato and
the tam tam are two examples, and his distaste for HIP is well-known,
but his prejudices are out in the open, which is a good thing. Besides,
unless one wants to pay him one doesn't have to.

Bob Harper

[sfr...@nycap.rr.com]

On Friday, May 29, 2020 at 11:35:09 AM UTC-4, Bob Harper wrote:
>
> I agree with you both. Yes, Hurwitz can be a pompous gasbag, but he is
> also well-informed and knowledgeable. He can be obsessive--vibrato and
> the tam tam are two examples, and his distaste for HIP is well-known,
> but his prejudices are out in the open, which is a good thing. Besides,
> unless one wants to pay him one doesn't have to.
>
> Bob Harper

I miss Henry Fogel and Simon Roberts. Don't know why their names just popped into my head but I respected their opinions a great deal and they had a very respectful way of expressing themselves. I still have "A Basic Stereo Record Guide" that Henry published in the mid-70s. And I still refer to it from time to time.

MIFrost

[number_six]

That is odd. Wonder what led him to choose that name for himself.

[RANDY WOLFGANG]

Didn't they leave out of disgust for Tom Deacons ugly posts.

[Bob Harper]

I believe Simon is present on Symphonyshare. From this piece in the
Chicago Tribune
(https://www.chicagotribune.com/suburbs/oak-park/ct-oak-oak-park-shout-out-tl-0509-story.html),
it sounds like Henry is keeping himself quite busy.
And yes, either of them would be welcome to come here any time. I always
learned something from their posts. We would all do well to be as
gentkemanly as both of them always were.

Bob Harper

[sfr...@nycap.rr.com]

On Friday, May 29, 2020 at 2:46:20 PM UTC-4, Bob Harper wrote:
>
> I believe Simon is present on Symphonyshare.
>

> Bob Harper

I tried to log on to SymphonyShare and couldn't. Is it still open to new members? Does anyone know?

MIFrost

[car...@cua.edu]

On Thursday, May 28, 2020 at 4:20:12 PM UTC-4, Oscar wrote:

Ronald C. Carlson
4:47 PM (5 minutes ago)
to rec.music.classical.recordings

I see that my original post about Mr. Hurwitz has generated a variety of comments. Now I wish to retract my statement that he is a "pompous gasbag," because calling names like this is inappropriate. I find his website Classics Today useful for news of new releases, but I would seldom buy a CD or download based on the recommendations of the site's reviewers. I have been burned several times. The same holds true for most other music review sites.

[Oscar]

On Friday, May 29, 2020 at 10:02:53 AM, RANDY WOLFGANG wrote:
>
> Didn't they leave out of disgust for Tom Deacons ugly posts.

Deacon and I are friends on FB. He lived in my old neighborhood for about a decade, but moved back to Canada before I arrived and stayed for 20 years. His home was a short 5 minute walk from my old apartment. I always thought that was funny. To be able to see TD buying vin et fromage at Say Cheese! local store, for example. Guy is such an old coot!

[Bob Harper]

Is Tom still alive and kicking? I hope so. I seem to remember that he
had some health issues.

Bob Harper

[Al Eisner]

Well, it's better than Peter Warlock.
--
Al Eisner

[87go...@gmail.com]

Dave the pompous gasbag here just writing to all of you pompous gasbags to say "thank you" if you have subscribed--please tell your friends (if you have any, that is). There's lots more gas to come, pompous or not. And no, I didn't change shirts because I made all the vids in one day, even if it looks that way. It was a private joke because I wore the same thing so often initially, and my partner said "change your damn shirt." So I did. Please stay healthy and safe.

Dave

[Hank Drake]

On Saturday, May 30, 2020 at 8:25:53 AM UTC-4, 87go...@gmail.com wrote:

> Dave the pompous gasbag here just writing to all of you pompous gasbags to say "thank you" if you have subscribed--please tell your friends (if you have any, that is). There's lots more gas to come, pompous or not. And no, I didn't change shirts because I made all the vids in one day, even if it looks that way. It was a private joke because I wore the same thing so often initially, and my partner said "change your damn shirt." So I did. Please stay healthy and safe.
>
> Dave

I stand corrected about the shirts, Dave. Keep the vids coming!

Hank

[Sacqueboutier]

On Saturday, May 30, 2020 at 8:25:53 AM UTC-4, 87go...@gmail.com wrote:

Dave may strike some as a windbag, but he is NEVER pompous. He has his views and he expresses them in plain, but intelligent language. His view on music performance is practical and reflects a decidedly phenomenological approach...ie, his view that it doesn't really matter what "edition" you use, as long as you make the performance worth hearing. I like that.

He was always one of my favorite Fanfare writers back in the day when I subscribed. (I let it lapse nearly 20 years ago, when it became apparent that not only was the journal getting thinner by the issue, but there were fewer and fewer new conductors out there that really interested me much.)

Best wishes,

Don

[Andrew Clarke]

On Saturday, May 30, 2020 at 10:25:53 PM UTC+10, 87go...@gmail.com wrote:

> Dave the pompous gasbag here just writing to all of you pompous gasbags to say "thank you" if you have subscribed--please tell your friends (if you have any, that is). There's lots more gas to come, pompous or not. And no, I didn't change shirts because I made all the vids in one day, even if it looks that way. It was a private joke because I wore the same thing so often initially, and my partner said "change your damn shirt." So I did. Please stay healthy and safe.
>

Hi there, Dave the Dude - good to hear from you again. I'm still considering whether Elgar's Serenade for Strings is, as you maintain, nothing but Victorian sentimentality - would you say that Dvorak's Serenade for Strings is a piece of Habsburg sentimentality?

If you do wear a tie for Beethoven's Ninth, I hope it's a black one. I can never listen to the bloody thing. He should have stopped after the Seventh, a masterpiece if ever there was one.

Andrew Clarke
Canberra

[87go...@gmail.com]

Hi there Andrew. Are you suggesting that all serenades for strings must be considered similarly? In other words, if one is "sentimental" then they all are, or may we tale each on it merits, case by case?

Dave

[Andrew Clarke]

No, Dave, I'm not suggesting that sentimentality is endemic to serenades for strings, although they do tend to bring out the sentimental side of the 19th-20th century composers who wrote them. I mention the Dvorak because to my mind, that one very definitely does. On some hearings this worries me, on others it doesn't seem to matter.

The Elgar I used to dislike, but it's grown on me. 'Boyish enthusiasm' now seems more appropriate for the outer movements, and the slow movement, sensitively handled, can be very moving indeed. God knows what it sounded like in Elgar's day with all that portamento ...

And no, I don't consider myself an Elgarian ;-)

Best wishes,

Andrew Clarke
Canberra

[Al Eisner]

On Thu, 4 Jun 2020, Andrew Clarke wrote:

> No, Dave, I'm not suggesting that sentimentality is endemic to serenades for strings, although they do tend to bring out the sentimental side of the 19th-20th century composers who wrote them. I mention the Dvorak because to my mind, that one very definitely does. On some hearings this worries me, on others it doesn't seem to matter.

For years, when I tuned in to that work after the announcement, I was
sure I was listening to some work I didn't know of Tchaikovsky's. It
just didn't occur to me that it might be by Dvorak. So I basically agree.
--
Al Eisner

[87go...@gmail.com]

Very interesting. I find that the Elgar has a nostalgic quality that I associate with sentimentality that the Dvorak does not share. But, obviously, that's a very subjective thing.

Dave

[graham]

I think Brits tend to see nostalgia in just about all his works.

[Andrew Clarke]

Yehudi Menuhin called it "passionate innocence" and he found it in other British music as well. I don't find nostalgia in the two concertos and I don't find it in the two symphonies either: least of all in the great "Introduction and Allegro". Like quite a few people from Wordsworth on, I think he did look back to boyhood and its innocent delights, which could never be recaptured: "Rarely, rarely comest thou Spirit of Delight." was how Shelley put it, and that's the epigraph of Symphony no. 2. And he did find inspiration in the tunes he'd written as a boy: the two Wand of Youth Suites are the result of that.

There's no nostalgia in "Cockaigne" for turn of the century London, because it was the London he actually knew at the turn of the century. There's a damnable amount of repetition, but that's another matter.

Yes he did write some sentimental trifles for drawing-room consumption: "Salut d'amour" etc. But as Jimmy Durante so succinctly put it, "a man's gotta eat".

He was, too, part of the Late German Romantic tradition, like his older contemporaries. But while people like Stanford recall Schumann and Mendelssohn, Elgar sounds like Elgar.

Andrew Clarke
Canberra

[Randy Lane]

Watched the recommended Dvořák 8th recordings.
Silvestri never mentioned.
Hard to believe.
No other recording comes close IMHO.

[Ricardo Jimenez]

On Sat, 6 Jun 2020 14:25:30 -0700 (PDT), Randy Lane
<randy...@gmail.com> wrote:

>Watched the recommended Dvo?ák 8th recordings.

>Silvestri never mentioned.
>Hard to believe.
>No other recording comes close IMHO.

I am annoyed by the whole concept of this channel. There is a BBC
series where the episodes are much longer and include exerpts from the
recordings being reviewed. The format used by Hurwitz makes it
useless and I stopped watching after a couple of episodes. Daniel
Barenboim had a more interesting series of 5 minute videos, where I
did learn some things, but he seems to have stopped making them a
couple of years ago.

[Al Eisner]

I should add that the quality which led me to assicite tht Dvorak Serenade
with Tchaikovsky was not nostalgia, at least not consciously so. I can't
quite put it in words, but it was something more specifically musical,
perhaps related to the incisiveness of the writing. I would never'have
mistaken the Wind serenade for Tchaikovsky. I have an exactly opposite
example: for a while (also on multiple occasions when not catching
the pre-play radio announcement), I mistook Tchaikovsky's "Souvenirs
de Florence" for Dvorak - it was just that good. Now I regard it as
one of Tchaikovsky's greatest works.

About Elgar I have little to say. He does little for me. I tend to
like best the class of his works (mostly early?) which really do seem to
me to be nostalgic, but I'm probably stepping above my level of Elgarian
knowledge.
--
Al Eisner

[Andrew Clarke]

Al, quite a few people woud probably turn your observations around and declare that they'd heard a bit of Dvorak that was so good they thought it was Tchaikowsky ... With respect to the Dvorak serenade it might be interesting to compare it with the Czech Suite for orchestra which I personally much prefer.

With regard to Elgar, there might be a problem of expectations. A lot of people, including myself, know the man for things like Chanson de Matin, Salut d'Amour etc. Then someone played me the Introduction and Allegro, from which I moved on to the Cello Concerto and the Second Symphony. It took a while for the First Symphony to weave its magic. Perhaps if we were to approach Elgar as if he were a follower of Richard Strauss, who in fact was very impressed by the Enigma Variations? We might listen to the delicate orchestration to be found in "Sea Pictures", probably drowned out by Dame Clara Butt for whom it was written.

I have to admire the courage of a self-taught composer, living in a society that didn't value composers unless they were foreigners, to take on unfamiliar forms. I'm thinking of the interplay between orchestra and quartet in the Introduction and Allegro, the use of a single unifying theme in the First Symphony, and the accompanied cadenza in the Violin Concerto.

And I'll admit he can be repetitive and tedious - but then he'll suddenly do something breathtaking. There's also the English tendency to rhapsodise beyond the extent that their musical ideas will properly carry them - the Violin Concerto has been criticised for this. I don't think "Didn't he ramble?" was played at his funeral, but perhaps it should have been.

Andrew Clarke
Canberra
who knows that the word 'ramble' in black American English meant something different, so stop typing. Be nice to each other ...

[Al Eisner]

On Sat, 6 Jun 2020, Andrew Clarke wrote:

> On Sunday, June 7, 2020 at 8:41:21 AM UTC+10, Al Eisner wrote:
>> On Fri, 5 Jun 2020, graham wrote:
>>
>>> On 2020-06-05 4:58 a.m., 87go...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>> On Friday, June 5, 2020 at 3:08:41 AM UTC-4, Al Eisner wrote:
>>>>> On Thu, 4 Jun 2020, Andrew Clarke wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> No, Dave, I'm not suggesting that sentimentality is endemic to serenades
>>>>>> for strings, although they do tend to bring out the sentimental side of
>>>>>> the 19th-20th century composers who wrote them. I mention the Dvorak
>>>>>> because to my mind, that one very definitely does. On some hearings this
>>>>>> worries me, on others it doesn't seem to matter.
>>>>>
>>>>> For years, when I tuned in to that work after the announcement, I was
>>>>> sure I was listening to some work I didn't know of Tchaikovsky's. It
>>>>> just didn't occur to me that it might be by Dvorak. So I basically agree.

>>>>> Al Eisner
>>>>
>>>> Very interesting. I find that the Elgar has a nostalgic quality that I
>>>> associate with sentimentality that the Dvorak does not share. But,
>>>> obviously, that's a very subjective thing.
>>>>
>>>> Dave
>>>>
>>> I think Brits tend to see nostalgia in just about all his works.
>>
>> I should add that the quality which led me to assicite tht Dvorak Serenade
>> with Tchaikovsky was not nostalgia, at least not consciously so. I can't
>> quite put it in words, but it was something more specifically musical,
>> perhaps related to the incisiveness of the writing. I would never'have
>> mistaken the Wind serenade for Tchaikovsky. I have an exactly opposite
>> example: for a while (also on multiple occasions when not catching
>> the pre-play radio announcement), I mistook Tchaikovsky's "Souvenirs
>> de Florence" for Dvorak - it was just that good. Now I regard it as
>> one of Tchaikovsky's greatest works.
>>
>> About Elgar I have little to say. He does little for me. I tend to
>> like best the class of his works (mostly early?) which really do seem to
>> me to be nostalgic, but I'm probably stepping above my level of Elgarian
>> knowledge.

>> Al Eisner
>
> Al, quite a few people woud probably turn your observations around and declare that they'd heard a bit of Dvorak that was so good they thought it was Tchaikowsky ... With respect to the Dvorak serenade it might be interesting to compare it with the Czech Suite for orchestra which I personally much prefer.

I concur in the latter. As to D vs. T, I like both composers. But if I
compare genre by genre the only place I find T preferable is in ballet
scores (obviously) and perhaps opera. Chamber music is an important focus
for me, and there in my estimation D comes out way ahead. They are closer
for symphonies (I still personally give D a slight edge, although I find
the Pathétique truly great). Anyway, ...

> With regard to Elgar, there might be a problem of expectations. A lot of people, including myself, know the man for things like Chanson de Matin, Salut d'Amour etc. Then someone played me the Introduction and Allegro, from which I moved on to the Cello Concerto and the Second Symphony. It took a while for the First Symphony to weave its magic. Perhaps if we were to approach Elgar as if he were a follower of Richard Strauss, who in fact was very impressed by the Enigma Variations? We might listen to the delicate orchestration to be found in "Sea Pictures", probably drowned out by Dame Clara Butt for whom it was written.
>
> I have to admire the courage of a self-taught composer, living in a society that didn't value composers unless they were foreigners, to take on unfamiliar forms. I'm thinking of the interplay between orchestra and quartet in the Introduction and Allegro, the use of a single unifying theme in the First Symphony, and the accompanied cadenza in the Violin Concerto.
>
> And I'll admit he can be repetitive and tedious - but then he'll suddenly do something breathtaking. There's also the English tendency to rhapsodise beyond the extent that their musical ideas will properly carry them - the Violin Concerto has been criticised for this. I don't think "Didn't he ramble?" was played at his funeral, but perhaps it should have been.
>
> Andrew Clarke
> Canberra
> who knows that the word 'ramble' in black American English meant something different, so stop typing. Be nice to each other ...

There might still be some hope for me with Elgar. I find many of the
short works pleasant but simply too "sweet" (avoiding loaded terms like
"sentimental" or "nostalgic"). I've heard the cello concerto multiple
times, but it has never drawn me in. Likewise with more limited
exposure to his chamber works. On the other hand, the Enigma Variations
are fine, if somewhat overplayed. I also like works such as "In the
South" and (probably) the Cockaigne overture; and in limited hearing
I was attracted to the first symphony (in particular Silvestri on
BBC Legends - I'm currently listening to a bit of Handley on youtube,
so far confirming that favorable impression). I'm not sure if I've
heard the second. Anyway, that's my story....
--
Al Eisner

[Kerrison]

> There might still be some hope for me with Elgar. I find many of the
> short works pleasant but simply too "sweet" (avoiding loaded terms like
> "sentimental" or "nostalgic"). I've heard the cello concerto multiple
> times, but it has never drawn me in. Likewise with more limited
> exposure to his chamber works. On the other hand, the Enigma Variations
> are fine, if somewhat overplayed. I also like works such as "In the
> South" and (probably) the Cockaigne overture; and in limited hearing
> I was attracted to the first symphony (in particular Silvestri on
> BBC Legends - I'm currently listening to a bit of Handley on youtube,
> so far confirming that favorable impression). I'm not sure if I've
> heard the second. Anyway, that's my story....
> --
> Al Eisner

Some of the finest Elgar performances come from non-British conductors. You mention the 2nd Symphony so here it is conducted by Vasily Petrenko. The music may not be to your liking but his performance is just great, as is confirmed by many of the comments under the video ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f8cUFZ2T0X0&t=57s

Similarly, Riccardo Muti and the Philadelphia Orchestra playing "In the South" put all the British performances in the shade. No wonder the audience started applauding before the last chord was over ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t-ZKmVHfgac&t=2s

Here is another Russian, the inimitable Gennady Rozhdestvensky, conducting the "Enigma Variations" at the London Proms in 2007 ... Evidently he was a great non-rehearser but it doesn't show in this performance ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cKnfRpJ6f4c&t=1692s

Hope you like!

[Andrew Clarke]

On Monday, June 8, 2020 at 5:33:46 PM UTC+10, Kerrison wrote:

> Some of the finest Elgar performances come from non-British conductors. You mention the 2nd Symphony so here it is conducted by Vasily Petrenko. The music may not be to your liking but his performance is just great, as is confirmed by many of the comments under the video ...
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f8cUFZ2T0X0&t=57s
>
> Similarly, Riccardo Muti and the Philadelphia Orchestra playing "In the South" put all the British performances in the shade. No wonder the audience started applauding before the last chord was over ...
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t-ZKmVHfgac&t=2s
>
> Here is another Russian, the inimitable Gennady Rozhdestvensky, conducting the "Enigma Variations" at the London Proms in 2007 ... Evidently he was a great non-rehearser but it doesn't show in this performance ...
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cKnfRpJ6f4c&t=1692s
>
> Hope you like!

I'm sure "the Brits" are happy to see that Elgar - who generally doesn't travel well - is or has been taken up by non-British conductors. The trouble is, it doesn't seem to happen very often. The other Petrenko - Kirill - has performed the Elgar Second with the Berlin Phil, as discussed here, but it was subsequently found that the previous performance of this work by this orchestra was thirty years ago!

It might be interesting to look at performances/recordings of American music by non-American conductors. Without having looked into this, I'd guess that Copland, Bernstein, Glass and Adams would do relatively well. But Schuman? Piston? even Barber (apart from *that* Adagio)? Ives?

Andrew Clarke
Canberra

"So there is nothing more to the story, except that Dave the Dude is around a few days later with a big sheet of paper in his duke and very, very indignant.

'If every single article listed here is not kicked back to the owners of the different joints in the Marberry that they are taken from by next Tuesday night, I will bust a lot of noses around this town,' Dave says. 'I am greatly mortified by such happenings at my social affairs, and everything must be returned at once. Especially,' Dave says, 'the baby grand piano that is removed from Apartment 9D.'"

- Damon Runyon, 'Madam La Gimp'.
<http://gutenberg.net.au/ebooks11/1100651h.html#Madame_La_Gimp>

[Néstor Castiglione]

> I'm sure "the Brits" are happy to see that Elgar - who generally doesn't travel well - is or has been taken up by non-British conductors. . .

That wasn't always the case. His music was performed frequently in German-speaking lands until World War I. Same with Delius.

> It might be interesting to look at performances/recordings of American music by non-American conductors. Without having looked into this, I'd guess that Copland, Bernstein, Glass and Adams would do relatively well. But Schuman? Piston? even Barber (apart from *that* Adagio)? Ives?

Depends. I think performances of Copland's orchestral music are limited to mostly a handful of scores: Appalachian Spring, Billy the Kid, Rodeo, the Fanfare. But how many perform, say, the Dance Symphony, Grohg, Dance Panels, or Connotations? Anyway, Copland's music doesn't foster the same warmth of reception elsewhere that he typically gets in the US.

However, there was a fine recent survey of the orchestral music with the BBC Philharmonic under John Wilson on Chandos. Best performance yet of the Connotations.

Ives travels well outside of America. He was influential in the forging of Alfred Schnittke's polystylism, for example; and his chamber/instrumental music seems to attract enough attention in the Old World, at least if recordings are any evidence. Rozhdestvensky conducted Ives' orchestral music in the USSR. Floating around somewhere online is a superb performance under his direction of Ives 4 with the CSO. Speaking of Chandos, Andrew Davis led an excellent cycle of the Ives symphonies in your neck of the woods.

[Al Eisner]

On Mon, 8 Jun 2020, Andrew Clarke wrote:

> On Monday, June 8, 2020 at 5:33:46 PM UTC+10, Kerrison wrote:
>
>> Some of the finest Elgar performances come from non-British conductors. You mention the 2nd Symphony so here it is conducted by Vasily Petrenko. The music may not be to your liking but his performance is just great, as is confirmed by many of the comments under the video ...
>>
>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f8cUFZ2T0X0&t=57s
>>
>> Similarly, Riccardo Muti and the Philadelphia Orchestra playing "In the South" put all the British performances in the shade. No wonder the audience started applauding before the last chord was over ...
>>
>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t-ZKmVHfgac&t=2s
>>
>> Here is another Russian, the inimitable Gennady Rozhdestvensky, conducting the "Enigma Variations" at the London Proms in 2007 ... Evidently he was a great non-rehearser but it doesn't show in this performance ...
>>
>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cKnfRpJ6f4c&t=1692s
>>
>> Hope you like!
>
> I'm sure "the Brits" are happy to see that Elgar - who generally doesn't travel well - is or has been taken up by non-British conductors. The trouble is, it doesn't seem to happen very often. The other Petrenko - Kirill - has performed the Elgar Second with the Berlin Phil, as discussed here, but it was subsequently found that the previous performance of this work by this orchestra was thirty years ago!
>
> It might be interesting to look at performances/recordings of American music by non-American conductors. Without having looked into this, I'd guess that Copland, Bernstein, Glass and Adams would do relatively well. But Schuman? Piston? even Barber (apart from *that* Adagio)? Ives?
>
> Andrew Clarke
> Canberra

Out of curiosity I checked the Berlin Philharmonic digital concert
(video) archive, which goes back about 20 years but probably not
thoroughly in the earlier years.

Elgar appears 16 times, but 5 are short works and 3 more are with Rattle.
The remainder are woth non-British conductors (perhaps influenced by
Rattle as music director): Barenboim doing Falstaff, Dfream of
Gerontius and the Cello Concerto (Weilerstein), both Mehta and
Zinman doint the Violin Concerto, Runnicles with the first Symphony
and K. Petrenko with the second. (Yes, Runnicles is Scottish,
but spent most of his career outside Britain.)

Ives appears 5 times, but 2 are The Unanswered Question, and one is the
Concord Sonata in a recital by Aimard. Daniel Harding (British) has
conducted Three Places in New Englnad, and, most impressively, Ingo
Metzmacher has conducted the 4th Symphony (with Aimard on Piano).

As Andrew suggested, Adams and Bernstein are well-represented, but
most of the Bernstein is Broadway-related. Barber apperas 3 times,
all for you know what. No Piston, Schuman, Thomson, Thompson, Foss,
etc. The index also shows no Copland, but that seems to be wrong.
Most interesting is a Mehta-conducted Crumb's Ancient Voices of
Children (with Marlis Petersen, soprano).

FWIW. :)
--
Al Eisner

[Andrew Clarke]

On Tuesday, June 9, 2020 at 10:34:15 AM UTC+10, Al Eisner wrote:

> Ives appears 5 times, but 2 are The Unanswered Question, and one is the
> Concord Sonata in a recital by Aimard. Daniel Harding (British) has
> conducted Three Places in New Englnad, and, most impressively, Ingo
> Metzmacher has conducted the 4th Symphony (with Aimard on Piano).

My son has just acquired a CD of Ives short works performed by the Ensemble Modern conducted by Ingo Mezmacher - I have a digital copy but haven't listened to it yet.

Belgian, Dutch and French readers of this group may recognise Mezmacher as a German relative of the irrascible Aim'e de Mesmaeker, non-signer of contracts thanks to the well-intentioned experiments of one Gaston Lagaffe ...

<https://www.pinterest.de/pin/42573158962320517/>

Andrew Clarke
Canberra
heros sans emploi

[Mr. Mike]

On Mon, 8 Jun 2020 17:34:10 -0700, Al Eisner
<eis...@slac.stanford.edu> wrote:

>Ives appears 5 times, but 2 are The Unanswered Question, and one is the
>Concord Sonata in a recital by Aimard. Daniel Harding (British) has
>conducted Three Places in New Englnad, and, most impressively, Ingo
>Metzmacher has conducted the 4th Symphony (with Aimard on Piano).

The reception of the Berlin audience to Harding's performance of 3
Places was chilly...

[O...@aol.com]

It just keeps getting better. Uploaded today: Hurwitz reviews TELARC’s Mahler box in Classics Today gray Classics Today tee-shirt (where _can_ I buy one of those??) sitting in front of giant gong with racks of CDs to his right. John Bonham would approve!

[Henk vT]

> Jaune Tom has apparently resurfaced! He was
> recently spotted in the company of a famous
> pianist!
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ekPx3VW0iM&t=4370s

A FAMOUS pianist? YW is a famous pianist. MA is. So are MU and HG. Even Angela Hewitt is better known. Perhaps HJLim is a more adventurous pianist.

Henk