Who is the music director of the Boston Symphony Orchestra?
Alain Dagher
is replacing him.
ad
Paul Goldstein
>
>I just visited the BSO website and it says Ozawa's retired, but not who
>is replacing him.
James Levine, though I don't know the start date.
Paul Goldstein
allankohrman
suffered through almost 30 years of Ozawa, this is welcome news indeed. I,
for one, this Levine is the greatest living conductor.
Allan Kohrman
Newton, MA
Hat NYC 62
for one, this Levine is the greatest living conductor. >>
He has certainly proven his abilities as a conductor AND as a music director
about as well as it is possible to do.
He has been integral in raising the status of the Met orchestra to one that
rivals any. I can only imagine that 40 years ago this would have been thought
impossible.
He is also one of the greatest living pianists.
Having recently heard the BSO (under Haitink at Carnegie), it is already one of
the great orchestras in existence. The future is unimaginably bright for this
orchestra.
For the first time in a long time, people will be travelling to Boston to hear
the kind of performances and even repertoire simply not available regularly in
other places.
David Hattner, NYC
www.northbranchrecords.com
Manilov
2004.
I'm worried, in light of reports about Levine's ego, that Haitink's
days as Principal Guest Conductor might be numbered. I think his
contract expires at the time when Levine begins. Let's hope this is
groundless, as it would be a great shame if we lose Haitink's presence
here (I believe that he conducts 3 BSO performances at the start of
Carnegie's 2003-22004 season.)
P Manilov
Paul Goldstein
says...
I think I have read somewhere that Levine holds Haitink in high regard (as well
he might . . . I consider them the greatest living conductors, along with
Boulez).
Paul Goldstein
JRsnfld
> >is replacing him.
>
> James Levine, though I don't know the start date.
>
> Paul Goldstein >>
Last week the BSO played under David Robertson and Ilan Volkov. I wouldn't be
sorry to see these two end up being Levine's successors, down the road. Under
Robertson they did a superb job with Debussy's Jeux and the Firebird Suite.
Whether or not the Berio Sinfonia was a great performance or not didn't
matter--it was gutsy and glorious to hear a major orchestra perform it.
Volkov meanwhile filled in at the last minute and led a luxurious Wagner
Siegfried Idyll and an exciting Pictures at an Exhibition.
--Jeff
REG
after a year of Levine.
"allankohrman" <allank...@attbi.com> wrote in message
news:lVpia.55424$Zo.14292@sccrnsc03...
REG
me. He does no solo concerts, almost no concerto performances, and restricts
himself to chamber music which is largely with his employees and as an
occasional accompanist - where he's not bad - with a handful of singers.
It's a ridiculous statement when you think about who's currently performing.
And I doubt that anyone will travel to Boston to hear those performances;
he's just not that good. I do understand the relief at getting rid of Ozawa,
but that doesn't justify the hyperbole.
"Hat NYC 62" <hatn...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20030401233149...@mb-cn.aol.com...
Paul Goldstein
>
>You really need to get out more.
To hear whom?
Paul Goldstein
Owen Hartnett
> You really need to get out more. Seriously, I wonder what you will think
> after a year of Levine.
After 30 years of Ozawa??? :-)
-Owen
Tom Daish
just wondering exactly what everyone has against him. He always strikes me as a
perfectly good, if not exactly outstanding conductor, but the criticism him
receives on here certainly seems somewhat excessive. Is it that he's more suited
to particular types of music that aren't discussed here or is he just one of
those names who gets a lot of stick anyway?!
I don't want to start a huge Ozawa bashing session since that's not my intention
at all - just curious as to some solid reasons for the general complaints
against him.
--
Tom
Soundtrack Express, nice...
www.soundtrack-express.com
--
Pierre Paquin
getting the better deal here?
Levine or Haitink?
"Manilov" <pman...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:6b8e11c7.03040...@posting.google.com...
Hat NYC 62
> after a year of Levine. >>
After a year it might not yet be obvious to all that Levine is, simply, one of
the greatest musicians and best conductors in the history of the profession,
but I believe it will before five years are up (assuming the orchestra accepts
him and his very very hard work ethic. . .if not it may not work at all . .
.see the Leinsdorf era).
There will always be long term detractors, but this is a very exciting time for
the BSO, in my opinion.
David Hattner, NYC
www.northbranchrecords.com
Paul Goldstein
Paul Goldstein
I have never heard Ozawa in person. But I have heard some of his recordings of
standard repertoire, both with the BSO and with Saito Kinen Orchestra, and I
find many of them enormously undercharacterized and boring. I used to say that
that most boring Beethoven recording I ever heard was Ozawa's San Francsico
Eroica (a Philips LP). I recently heard his Saito Kinen Beethoven 7, and that
one may be even more sleep-inducing than the old Eroica. I agree that
sometimes Ozawa emits a successful recording of 20th century music. But his
seemingly complete inability to lead successful performances of Beethoven and
Brahms makes him unfit to lead a great orchestra AFAIK.
Paul Goldstein
Terrymelin
>was
>just wondering exactly what everyone has against him. He always strikes me as
>a
>perfectly good, if not exactly outstanding conductor,
In a word? Boring! Ponderous! No soul! OK, that was two words.
Terry Ellsworth
Tony Movshon
> sometimes Ozawa emits a successful recording of 20th century music. But his
> seemingly complete inability to lead successful performances of Beethoven and
> Brahms makes him unfit to lead a great orchestra AFAIK.
I'm not a huge Ozawa fan, but I think his Brahms cycle with the Saito
Kinen orchestra is quite successful. The problem with many Ozawa
recordings is not that they aren't successful or professional, but that
they aren't distinctive. That's a different problem.
Tony Movshon
mov...@nyu.edu
Eric Grunin
wrote:
>I used to say that
>that most boring Beethoven recording I ever heard was Ozawa's San Francsico
>Eroica (a Philips LP).
I've made a page which includes a 1-minute clip of this performance. I
think it supports your opinion:
http://www.grunin.com/eroica/?page=Tilson-Thomas.htm
The same page has Blomstedt and Tilson Thomas, playing the same
passage with the same orchestra.
Regards,
Eric Grunin
www.grunin.com/eroica
Heck51
"For those of us in the Boston area who suffered through almost 30
years of Ozawa, this is welcome news indeed."
I agree - [but don't forget the 10 years of deadly ineptitude of
Leinsdork]
it has been so long since the BSO has been any where near the top
rank of orchestras, that the potential for glory with Levine is most
welcome.
Hopefully he can establish a focus, a style, a unanimity of
performance, that has been missing from this orchestra for so long.
I look forward to his BSO directorship with optimism...
Chuck Klaus
there any conductors that the gentle readers of these missives view as
having great potential? Are there a crop of incredibly talented young
Maestri coming into view? Who are they, what are they doing now, and
where have you heard them? What have they recorded?
And, if you'll forgive the loaded question, why aren't they being
hired as the Music Directors of prominent American orchestras, as
opposed to the many curatorial figures we are now obliged to listen
to?
Heck51
"I'm worried, in light of reports about Levine's ego, that Haitink's
days as Principal Guest Conductor might be numbered."
Losing Haitink and gaining Levine should be a good exchange for the BSO...
Hat NYC 62
me. He does no solo concerts, almost no concerto performances, and restricts
himself to chamber music which is largely with his employees and as an
occasional accompanist - where he's not bad - with a handful of singers.
It's a ridiculous statement when you think about who's currently performing.
And I doubt that anyone will travel to Boston to hear those performances;
he's just not that good. I do understand the relief at getting rid of Ozawa,
but that doesn't justify the hyperbole.<<<
I ask, have you heard the man play? Exactly what about the man's playing is not
great? I have heard him and it's sublime musicianship and piano playing
PARTICULARLY for someone who likely hasn't practiced much in many many years.
Playing 'only chamber music' does not stop one from being great. In fact,
playing chamber music well is as hard as doing anything else well. . .sometimes
harder.
And many of 'his employees' that he often performs chamber music with are among
the greatest performing musicians anywhere.
Not playing solo recitals does not prevent one from being great. . .only from
being compared with others.
As for his conducting, he has conducted, with as great success as it is
possible to have, every great orchestra in the western world.
Now if YOU find him boring (or overrated or whatever), that's fine. But what a
shame not to appreciate this kind of talent. Sad, really.
Ray Hall
news:FZIia.45504$OV.143420@rwcrnsc54...
| Is not Haitink going to the Dresden as GMDi n 2003/4 Who do YOU think is
| getting the better deal here?
I think Dresden has really got the deal all sewn up. I'm not a detractor of
Levine (in fact I heard his Les Troyens with the NY Met the other night on
ABC FM, and thought it well characterised, with some nice detail), but in
sheer breadth of repertoire, and known recordings, then Haitink must be one
of the really great living conductors amongst us.
From what I have heard of Ozawa, then he is always competent, but he never
seems to really get below the surface of the music to my ears.
Regards,
# http://www.users.bigpond.com/hallraylily/index.html
See You Tamara (Ozzy Osbourne)
Ray, Taree, NSW
REG
group at Carnegie Recital Hall, and to suggest that those musicians,
competent though they are, rival other professional soloists is risable. You
are suggesting that the100 plus men and women of the MET orchestra could all
really have solo careers, but elect not to.
"Hat NYC 62" <hatn...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20030402213535...@mb-ce.aol.com...
Matthew B. Tepper (posts from uswest.net are forged)
letters to be typed in news:3E8B7816...@nyu.edu:
I enjoy his Saito Kinen Brahms cycle. In fact, the performance I heard of
#1 in Edinburgh 1990 was the single finest live Brahms I have ever heard in
my life.
--
Matthew B. Tepper: WWW, science fiction, classical music, ducks!
My personal home page -- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/index.html
My main music page --- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/berlioz.html
To write to me, do for my address what Androcles did for the lion
Mark Coy tossed off eBay? http://makeashorterlink.com/?M2B734C02
RMCR's most pointless, dumb and laughable chowderhead: Mark Coy.
sch...@gefen.cc.biu.ac.il
: At the risk of getting off on a potentially devisive tangent, are
: there any conductors that the gentle readers of these missives view as
: having great potential? Are there a crop of incredibly talented young
: Maestri coming into view? Who are they, what are they doing now, and
: where have you heard them? What have they recorded?
Last year, a young American conductor named George Pehlevanian came in as
a last-minute subsitution at the IPO for one of the European conductors who
now refuse on principle to conduct in Israel. He was very impressive -- so
much so that they brought him back this year. I get the impression (not
from any official source, just an impression that I got from the way the
concerts were scheduled this season) that they added a concert this season
specifically for him to conduct. If his work with the IPO is any indication,
keep your eyes on this young man, as the saying goes.
-----
Richard Schultz sch...@mail.biu.ac.il
Department of Chemistry, Bar-Ilan University, Ramat-Gan, Israel
Opinions expressed are mine alone, and not those of Bar-Ilan University
-----
It's a bird, it's a plane -- no, it's Mozart. . .
Owen Hartnett
<t...@soundtrack-express.com> wrote:
Some of his work is very good, even excellent. Some of it is horribly
boring, music with the blood sucked out. I've actually grown to like
him more in his later years with the BSO, then I did for the first 15
years he was there.
But my feeling is that even if Levine is as bad as his worst detractors
here say he is, that after thirty years of "perfectly good, if not
exactly outstanding" Ozawa, Levine'll still be a refreshing change even
after a whole 12 months.
-Owen
Manilov
> getting the better deal here?
Yes, Haitink takes over in the fall in Dresden. Let's hope he tours
soon! His Principal Guest Conductor contract w/ the BSO runs through
the end of 2003-2004, so the question is whether he will renew.
If you ask me, who got the better deal, I'd say Dresden by far. I wish
I could share others' enthusiasm for Levine, but for me he mainly
admirable as a technician. I expect he'll improve the BSO's technical
standard, but I can't say any of his interpretations really grab me.
(A few of his early recording sstruck me as good, but either he or
changed thereafter.) Honestly, I think that his achievement at the MET
is a mixed one at best. Yes, the orchestra sounds great, and he
deserves big credit for that, but otoh, he is also responsible for
allowing the theatrical standards there to sink. Conrad L. Osborne
once described many opera recordings as "potted opera product", iirc,
and my feeling is that the MET now turns out such product all too
regularly. Yes, this is because of the dearth of singers on th eint'l
scene and because of current music industry practices, but it's also a
question of priorities at the MET, I should think.
I don't know what happened during Haitink's reign at the opera in
London, but the orchestral concerts I've heard have almost all been
first-rate.
P Manilov
Matthew B. Tepper (posts from uswest.net are forged)
to be typed in news:b6gdfa$bcu$4...@news.iucc.ac.il:
> In article <4762aa97.03040...@posting.google.com>, Chuck
> Klaus <Kla...@twcny.rr.com> wrote:
>
>: At the risk of getting off on a potentially devisive tangent, are
>: there any conductors that the gentle readers of these missives view as
>: having great potential? Are there a crop of incredibly talented young
>: Maestri coming into view? Who are they, what are they doing now, and
>: where have you heard them? What have they recorded?
>
> Last year, a young American conductor named George Pehlevanian came in
> as a last-minute subsitution at the IPO for one of the European
> conductors who now refuse on principle to conduct in Israel.
Who are they, just out of curiosity?
> He was very impressive -- so much so that they brought him back this
> year. I get the impression (not from any official source, just an
> impression that I got from the way the concerts were scheduled this
> season) that they added a concert this season specifically for him to
> conduct. If his work with the IPO is any indication, keep your eyes on
> this young man, as the saying goes.
--
JRsnfld
group at Carnegie Recital Hall, and to suggest that those musicians,
competent though they are, rival other professional soloists is risable. You
are suggesting that the100 plus men and women of the MET orchestra could all
really have solo careers, but elect not to. >>
As hard as it is to make it as a soloist, there are many great musicians who
could make it as soloists who don't, either by lifestyle choice or because of a
lack of good management, lucky breaks, temperament, desire, etc. So, in fact,
it is entirely reasonable to suggest that the vast majority of the MET's
musicians are as capable as many of the soloists out there. The same goes for
all of the orchestras at this level.
--Jeff
Tom Daish
Interesting, I have the same kind of feelings over Levine, although in fairness
I don't have a huge selection of Levine recordings, but the ones I do have
certainly haven't inspired me to find more.
As to the comments regarding Beethoven, I don't see why being unable to conduct
the work of a couple of composers (yes, they are two of the greatest to ever
have lived) brilliantly makes Ozawa a failure. I seem to recall reading lots of
comments that HVK was a poor conductor of Mozart, another of history's greatest
composers (although not generally to my taste - one of the few times I'm
inclined to agree with Norman Lebrecht), yet he was superb in other repertoire.
Many conductors confined themselves to very limited repertoire and excelled at
it, maybe Ozawa should do the same, but I don't see that it should necessarily
include Beethoven and Brahms.
sch...@gefen.cc.biu.ac.il
:> Last year, a young American conductor named George Pehlevanian came in
:> as a last-minute subsitution at the IPO for one of the European
:> conductors who now refuse on principle to conduct in Israel.
:
: Who are they, just out of curiosity?
the prebvious post) replaced Antonio Pappano. It might have been someone
else, but Pappano was one of the people who cancelled. This year, so far,
Paavo Jarvi and Vladimir Jurowski (although the latter conveniently got "ill"
just before the concert was scheduled). Helmut Rilling and Rafael Fruebeck
de Burgos did show up. My failure to believe that these people are not
showing up due to security concerns is based on my observation that (a) the
security concerns are really not that great and (b) all of the scheduled
conductors and soloists from the U.S. have managed to perform here except
for Wolfgang Sawallisch who had IIRC just undergone an operation and thus
had a legitimate excuse.
-----
Richard Schultz sch...@mail.biu.ac.il
Department of Chemistry, Bar-Ilan University, Ramat-Gan, Israel
Opinions expressed are mine alone, and not those of Bar-Ilan University
-----
"Maybe we need to stop thinking of this as a Mideast crisis and just think
of it as Mideast culture."
-- quoted in _The Onion_, 18 Oct 2000
Neil
>He has certainly proven his abilities as a conductor AND as a music director
>about as well as it is possible to do.
Lock up your boys !
Eric Grunin
>Don't cry for me, Argentina. I have heard him repeatedly with his pick-up
>group at Carnegie Recital Hall
I don't think that's who Mr. Hattner was referring to, fine as the Met
musicians are.
A quick check at Amazon.com shows Levine to have recorded discs with
Dawn Upshaw, Kathleen Battle, Cecilia Bartoli, Tatiana Troyanos, Jenny
Tourel, Christa Ludwig, and Jessye Norman -- and that's just what's in
print. Each of these performers could have any pianist they like,
which is some kind of recommendation for Levine.
Personally, I have no opinion on Levine's pianism, but I admit to
flinching when *anybody* is referred to as the 'greatest'
something-or-other.
Regards,
Eric Grunin
www.grunin.com/eroica
Hat NYC 62
group at Carnegie Recital Hall, and to suggest that those musicians,
competent though they are, rival other professional soloists is risable. You
are suggesting that the100 plus men and women of the MET orchestra could all
really have solo careers, but elect not to >>
Do all 120 rival the best soloists? Perhaps not. The vast majority of the
principal players and a surprising number of the section musicians, however,
do. Practically the entire wind section are at the top of the musical
profession.
Every new player hired there is a virtuoso. That is because so many great
players audition in the first place.
In fact, it's possible that the majority of 'professional soloists' (whatever
that means) simply couldn't survive the workload of the Met orchestra. Opera
music (particularly the string parts) is harder than most concertos AND far
longer.
Remember that those Carnegie concerts are given during the regular season
without the members of the orchestra being released from their highly taxing
opera performance schedule.
But to hear the Met orchestra in a Mozart or Wagner opera under Levine is to
know that one is in the presence of a unique and great partnership. Orchestral
playing. . .playing itself. . .can hardly get better (not without the help of
post production, anyway).
To call it a 'pick up group' is simply to try to demean with language. They are
as far from a pick up group as the Vienna Philharmonic. . .another great opera
orchestra.
Let me also say that I do not believe Levine has ever been well served on
recordings (not unlike George Szell interestingly enough). Various engineers
have botched things so that I hardly own any of his commercial recordings.
Which is too bad. But it doesn't change the way I see him as a musician.
David Hattner, NYC
www.northbranchrecords.com
Terrymelin
>now refuse on principle to conduct in Israel. He was ver
What principle is that exactly? I suspect these are the same guys who would
have conducted in Nazi Germany right? Or for Stalin? Or Saddam?
These guys are a joke.
Terry Ellsworth
Tony Movshon
> But to hear the Met orchestra in a Mozart or Wagner opera under Levine is to
> know that one is in the presence of a unique and great partnership. Orchestral
> playing. . .playing itself. . .can hardly get better (not without the help of
> post production, anyway).
>
> To call it a 'pick up group' is simply to try to demean with language. They are
> as far from a pick up group as the Vienna Philharmonic. . .another great opera
> orchestra.
>
> Let me also say that I do not believe Levine has ever been well served on
> recordings (not unlike George Szell interestingly enough). Various engineers
> have botched things so that I hardly own any of his commercial recordings.
> Which is too bad. But it doesn't change the way I see him as a musician.
I completely agree with David here. The standard of conducting that Levine
provides at the Met is extraordinarily high, and it's not only a matter of the
way the orchestra plays for him. I've heard many of the great opera conductors
over the years and there is simply no one in my experience who comes close to
Levine in maintaining consistent musical and theatrical excellence. And this
is not done on autopilot -- with rare exceptions, when someone else takes over
in the pit, the standard drops several big notches, despite the
professionalism of the musicians. And the level of performances at the Met
orchestra concerts is usually just as high.
What is distinctive about Levine performances is that no one ever "marks time"
-- every phrase and every section of a piece is articulated and projected, and
makes sense. Anyone can take exception to an interpretation (his Parsifal is
too slow, etc etc). But I'm always willing to hear a great musician's
interpretation of something when it's well done, even if it's not exactly the
way I think it should go.
I also think that quite a few of Levine's recordings are better than many in
this group customarily credit, and not only the operatic ones. His VPO Brahms
cycle and Philly Schumann cycle are among my favorites; his Mahler
not-quite-cycle contains several first-rank recordings; his Met Orchestra
recordings are often exceptionally good (Don Quixote, Rite of Spring,
Pictures, even the Eroica). I think that Boston is in for a spectacular step
up during his time there (and that's not because I'm bashing Ozawa). I only
wish that the Philharmonic had grabbed him instead of exhuming Lorin Maazel.
Tony Movshon
mov...@nyu.edu
Matthew B. Tepper (posts from uswest.net are forged)
> In article <Xns9351E3B6E83...@129.250.170.82>,
> "Matthew?B.?Tepper?(posts from uswest.net are forged)"
> <oy兀earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>:> Last year, a young American conductor named George Pehlevanian came in
>:> as a last-minute subsitution at the IPO for one of the European
>:> conductors who now refuse on principle to conduct in Israel.
>:
>: Who are they, just out of curiosity?
>
> Nearly all of them. IIRC, Pehlivanian (apologies for the misspelling in
> the prebvious post) replaced Antonio Pappano. It might have been
> someone else, but Pappano was one of the people who cancelled. This
> year, so far, Paavo Jarvi and Vladimir Jurowski (although the latter
> conveniently got "ill" just before the concert was scheduled).
Well, at least he's keeping alive the old Soviet tradition!
> Helmut Rilling and Rafael Fruebeck de Burgos did show up. My failure to
> believe that these people are not showing up due to security concerns is
> based on my observation that (a) the security concerns are really not
> that great and (b) all of the scheduled conductors and soloists from the
> U.S. have managed to perform here except for Wolfgang Sawallisch who had
> IIRC just undergone an operation and thus had a legitimate excuse.
Seriously, thanks for the answer.
Matthew B. Tepper (posts from uswest.net are forged)
letters to be typed in news:20030403091914...@mb-fl.aol.com:
You know, it's one thing to do so on principle. But to pretend to be sick,
or to cancel for specious reasons....
Rodger Whitlock
> ...are there any conductors that the gentle readers ... view as
> having great potential? Are there a crop of incredibly talented young
> Maestri coming into view? Who are they, what are they doing now, and
> where have you heard them? What have they recorded?
>
> And, if you'll forgive the loaded question, why aren't they being
> hired as the Music Directors of prominent American orchestras, as
> opposed to the many curatorial figures we are now obliged to listen
> to?
They aren't being hired because way too many orchestras are still
in the grips of socialites. Thus home-grown talent, no matter how
gifted, just doesn't have the social cachet that some musical
mediocrity from the steppes of central Europe does.
Stokowski knew exactly what he was doing when he traded in his
cockney accent for a pseudo-Polish one. One has to wonder
sometimes if his birth certificate actually read something like
"Fred Bloggs".
--
Rodger Whitlock
Victoria, British Columbia, Canada
Edward Brisboy
> In article <Xns9351E3B6E83...@129.250.170.82>, "Matthew?B.?Tepper?(posts from uswest.net are forged)" <oy兀earthlink.net> wrote:
>
> :> Last year, a young American conductor named George Pehlevanian came in
> :> as a last-minute subsitution at the IPO for one of the European
> :> conductors who now refuse on principle to conduct in Israel.
> :
> : Who are they, just out of curiosity?
>
> Nearly all of them. IIRC, Pehlivanian (apologies for the misspelling in
> the prebvious post) replaced Antonio Pappano. It might have been someone
> else, but Pappano was one of the people who cancelled. This year, so far,
> Paavo Jarvi and Vladimir Jurowski (although the latter conveniently got "ill"
> just before the concert was scheduled). Helmut Rilling and Rafael Fruebeck
> de Burgos did show up. My failure to believe that these people are not
> showing up due to security concerns is based on my observation that (a) the
> security concerns are really not that great and (b) all of the scheduled
> conductors and soloists from the U.S. have managed to perform here except
> for Wolfgang Sawallisch who had IIRC just undergone an operation and thus
> had a legitimate excuse.
Refusing to perform in Israel as a protest against its policies is
perfectly legitimate. At this point, so would refusing to perform in
the US. While I don't think those who do not refuse should be
criticized (whereas I would feel this way if, say, the performer
agreed to accept a state honor of some kind), I fail to see how
refusal can be regarded as illegitimate, which is what you imply.
Ed
TansalQ
Franz Welser-Most is rather young, isn't he? If his live CD of Bruckner 5
is any indication of the possibilities, we could expect some good work from
the fellow. (I also rather like his recording of Bruckner's Te Deum and
third Mass.) Didn't Cleveland pick him up as MD?
Tansal
Sol L. Siegel
>Franz Welser-Most is rather young, isn't he?
42 now, I think. When I first saw him here, he was 30 and looked
like a gymnasium student doing an imitation of a stork. Now he
looks like a graduate student with more economic movements.
>Didn't Cleveland pick him up as MD?
Yes. His recent Eastern tour with them aroused some divergent
opinions in this ng a couple of months ago.
-Sol Siegel, Philadelphia, PA
--------------------
"I am sure of very little, and I shouldn't be surprised if those things were
wrong." - Clarence Darrow
--------------------
(Remove "dammspam" from the end of my e-mail address to respond.)
Matthew B. Tepper (posts from uswest.net are forged)
following letters to be typed in
><sch...@gefen.cc.biu.ac.il> wrote in message
>news:<b6gukk$ptd$1...@news.iucc.ac.il>...
>> In article <Xns9351E3B6E83...@129.250.170.82>,
>> "Matthew?B.?Tepper?(posts from uswest.net are forged)"
>> <oyş@earthlink.net> wrote:
>>
>> :> Last year, a young American conductor named George Pehlevanian
>> :> came in as a last-minute subsitution at the IPO for one of the
>> :> European conductors who now refuse on principle to conduct in
>> :> Israel.
>> :
>> : Who are they, just out of curiosity?
>>
>> Nearly all of them. IIRC, Pehlivanian (apologies for the misspelling
>> in the prebvious post) replaced Antonio Pappano. It might have been
>> someone else, but Pappano was one of the people who cancelled. This
>> year, so far, Paavo Jarvi and Vladimir Jurowski (although the latter
>> conveniently got "ill" just before the concert was scheduled).
>> Helmut Rilling and Rafael Fruebeck de Burgos did show up. My failure
>> to believe that these people are not showing up due to security
>> concerns is based on my observation that (a) the security concerns
>> are really not that great and (b) all of the scheduled conductors and
>> soloists from the U.S. have managed to perform here except for
>> Wolfgang Sawallisch who had IIRC just undergone an operation and thus
>> had a legitimate excuse.
>
> Refusing to perform in Israel as a protest against its policies is
> perfectly legitimate. At this point, so would refusing to perform in
> the US. While I don't think those who do not refuse should be
> criticized (whereas I would feel this way if, say, the performer
> agreed to accept a state honor of some kind), I fail to see how
> refusal can be regarded as illegitimate, which is what you imply.
As I said before, it's one thing to do so on principle, but it's something
else entirely to pretend to be sick, or to cancel for specious reasons.
To give two examples: Toscanini publicly refused to perform at Bayreuth
after the Nazis took over, nor in Austria after the Anschluss. And
Furtwängler declined to perform with German orchestras in occupied
countries, though under the circumstances I can understand why he could not
say so publicly.
Whether I like her decision or not, at least Emma Kirkby has declared her
"unease" at performing in Israel because of the situation involving the
Palestinian Arabs. A conductor who pretends to be sick is not being
principles, just dishonest and perhaps cowardly.
There's been a whole thread in the cesspool called rec.music.opera about
Robert Alagna and Angela Gheorghiu cancelling their few remaining
performances at the Met for the season and scurrying back home. My take is
that, more than anything else, they wanted the attention.
Edward Waffle
Terrymelin
>> perfectly legitimate. At this point, so would refusing to perform in
>> the US. While I don't think those who do not refuse should be
>> criticized (whereas I would feel this way if, say, the performer
>> agreed to accept a state honor of some kind)
As would performing in France or Germany as well, correct?
The problem with performers refusing to perform in Israel based on their
"unease" so to speak is that a great many people feel, rightly I suspect, that
most of this has to do with anti-Semitism. It may be a benign and well-cloaked
version of it but it is anti-Semitism just the same.
It's always interesting to see how loudly the French criticize Israel for just
about everything it does but doesn't seem to give two wits every time a
Palestinian suicide bomber kills 20 Jews.
Terry Ellsworth
Chuck Klaus
> Franz Welser-Most is rather young, isn't he? If his live CD of Bruckner 5
> is any indication of the possibilities, we could expect some good work from
> the fellow. (I also rather like his recording of Bruckner's Te Deum and
> third Mass.) Didn't Cleveland pick him up as MD?
Klaus continued:
Yes, he is the new music director in Cleveland. His initial NYC
appearance in that capacity was viewed as a bit...uneven.
Rodger Whitlock
[re James Levine]
> Lock up your boys !
Are you telling us that Levine is gay? If so, please say so in a
straightforward fashion instead of hauling out that hoary and
badly overworked canard that equates adult male homosexuality
with paedophilia.
Those without prejudice are not impressed by your oh-so-clever
remark, those with would probably prefer the direct statement
"Levine's a homo.".
A. Brain
news:BAB1EA99.1AAC2%tan...@hotmail.com...
Welser-Moest is in his forties. I thought we were talking
"young", as Leonard Bernstein in the '40s,
Lorin Maazel in the mid to late '50s, MTT in the
early '70s.
I spotted the W-M Bruckner 7th live in a used store
a few days ago--this is one of the few pieces I enjoy
"collecting"--probably have more than three versions.
Do I need it?
--
A. Brain
Remove NOSPAM for email.
Tony Movshon
> I spotted the W-M Bruckner 7th live in a used store
> a few days ago--this is one of the few pieces I enjoy
> "collecting"--probably have more than three versions.
> Do I need it?
No. I bought it, after hearing his 5th, and was sorely disappointed.
Tony Movshon
mov...@nyu.edu
Matthew B. Tepper (posts from uswest.net are forged)
letters to be typed in news:20030403182526...@mb-fl.aol.com:
>>> Refusing to perform in Israel as a protest against its policies is
>>> perfectly legitimate. At this point, so would refusing to perform in
>>> the US. While I don't think those who do not refuse should be
>>> criticized (whereas I would feel this way if, say, the performer
>>> agreed to accept a state honor of some kind)
>
> As would performing in France or Germany as well, correct?
>
> The problem with performers refusing to perform in Israel based on their
> "unease" so to speak is that a great many people feel, rightly I suspect,
> that most of this has to do with anti-Semitism. It may be a benign and
> well-cloaked version of it but it is anti-Semitism just the same.
The reason I mentioned Miss Kirkby is that, until recently, she had made
numerous concert tours of Israel and has lots of friends there. This is
not to suggest that there AREN'T performers who decline to perform there
because they are anti-Semitic; but she does not appear to be one of them.
> It's always interesting to see how loudly the French criticize Israel
> for just about everything it does but doesn't seem to give two wits
> every time a Palestinian suicide bomber kills 20 Jews.
Indeed. Or when Islamic extremists blow up a bus full of French engineers.
Tony Movshon
> The problem with performers refusing to perform in Israel based on their
> "unease" so to speak is that a great many people feel, rightly I suspect, that
> most of this has to do with anti-Semitism. It may be a benign and well-cloaked
> version of it but it is anti-Semitism just the same.
With all due respect, hogwash. Don't you imagine that it is possible to
be pro-Jewish (and even Jewish) and yet to oppose the Israeli government
and its policies?
Any musician who feels strongly enough about politics to withhold
performance has to be respected for putting his/her money where his/her
mouth is. You don't have to agree with the politics to respect such a
statement.
When Toscanini refused to conduct at Bayreuth under the Nazis, would you
have accused him of "benign and well-cloaked anti-Germanism"?
Tony Movshon
mov...@nyu.edu [now invoking Godwin's Law with respect to this thread]
Lenya Ryzhik
On Thu, 3 Apr 2003, Tony Movshon wrote:
> Terrymelin wrote:
> > The problem with performers refusing to perform in Israel based on their
> > "unease" so to speak is that a great many people feel, rightly I suspect, that
> > most of this has to do with anti-Semitism. It may be a benign and well-cloaked
> > version of it but it is anti-Semitism just the same.
>
> With all due respect, hogwash. Don't you imagine that it is possible to
> be pro-Jewish (and even Jewish) and yet to oppose the Israeli government
> and its policies?
>
> Any musician who feels strongly enough about politics to withhold
> performance has to be respected for putting his/her money where his/her
> mouth is. You don't have to agree with the politics to respect such a
> statement.
May be. But it is awfully hard to distinguish between those who do it out
of convictions and those who do it because being anti-Israel is in vogue.
And even in the former case it is always intriguing to know how much the
person with convictions actually knows about the subject from the Israeli
perspective and how he arrived at his conclusions.
Lenya
REG
who controls one of the busiest opera houses in the world.
"Eric Grunin" <a@b.c> wrote in message
news:ffao8v8j69tq2u6mr...@4ax.com...
REG
orchestra, which is good enough, but the chamber group he uses. They do play
very well, but I wouldn't call any of them that I have heard virtuosos,
because there's very little temperament or interpretive nuance on display.
If I seemed to be demeaning the musical skills as such, I should clearly
apologize - it's glib and uncalled for. But I am referring to the quality
that moves a performance to a level of interpretation, and that I hear
little, if any, of. It's not that the performance level isn't at a high
quality, and I think you know more than I do about how difficult the work
load it - I am not trying to be snide. But you don't buy tickets and spend
afternoons somewhere because a group of musicians have (sucessfully)
overcome lots of real obstacles to give accomplished performances - you want
to do it because the interpretive level is high, and that's not there imho.
The other stuff is an "accomplishment", but I ask you to think again about
whether it's a basis for judging a performance on the part of a
dispassionate audience.
"Hat NYC 62" <hatn...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20030403091617...@mb-ce.aol.com...
REG
although he's closeted for lots of purposes having to do with the press -
although he can be flanboyant when I've seen him out in the Pines. It's not
about his being gay at all...but no need to go further here.
"Rodger Whitlock" <totototo...@mail.pacificcoast.invalid> wrote in
message news:3e8ce2a...@news.newsguy.com...
David Wake
Or that it was possible to oppose the policies of the Clinton or Bush
administrations without being "anti-American".
David
HenryFogel
>From: Tony Movshon mov...@nyu.edu
>Date: 4/3/2003 8:53 AM Central Standard Time
>Message-id: <3E8C4AF9...@nyu.edu>
Without commenting on the specific merits of the arguments above, there is one
point that troubles me. The viewpoint that an artist's recordings mis-represent
the artist because of bad engineering or production values seems to me to
absolve the artist of responsibility for recordings issued under his/her name.
I can tell you from personal knowledge that star musicians generally choose
their own producers, and get the sound quality that they want -- or, in some
cases, they are completely passive about it and allow results that they are
even unaware of. In both examples, I think it is wrong to put the blame on
others, when the artist does, in fact, have control.
Again - I am not commenting on the specific value judgements made above, only
the conclusion that an artist can be "done in" by a producer, as if the artist
were an innocent, trapped bystander.
Henry Fogel
TansalQ
I avoided the 7th based on comments here. There have been some positive
reports about his recent 8th, which I've been tempted by, but would like to
hear more opinions about before I decide. (I think I have plenty of 8ths as
it is.)
Does Welser-Most have some remarkable non-Bruckner recordings?
Tansal
Tony Movshon
> Without commenting on the specific merits of the arguments above, there is one
> point that troubles me. The viewpoint that an artist's recordings mis-represent
> the artist because of bad engineering or production values seems to me to
> absolve the artist of responsibility for recordings issued under his/her name.
>
> I can tell you from personal knowledge that star musicians generally choose
> their own producers, and get the sound quality that they want -- or, in some
> cases, they are completely passive about it and allow results that they are
> even unaware of. In both examples, I think it is wrong to put the blame on
> others, when the artist does, in fact, have control.
I think that the statement "X is not well served on record" is only partly
about production values. There are many artists, Furtwangler being an obvious
case, who seemed not to do their best *musical* work in the studio, never mind
the production values. Others, like Bernstein and Solti, seemed to thrive in
the studio. It's probably more about the psychology of performance in front of
an empty room full of microphones than about sound engineering.
Tony Movshon
mov...@nyu.edu
Eric Grunin
>Perhaps, but there's lots of motivations for singers to work with someone
>who controls one of the busiest opera houses in the world.
You have proceeded from merely scoffing at Levine's pianism (about
which, again, I have no opinion) to insulting a large roster of
excellent singers. The comment that provoked you was of course
ridiculous, but so is this.
Regards,
Eric Grunin
www.grunin.com/eroica
Terrymelin
>numerous concert tours of Israel and has lots of friends there. This is
>not to suggest that there AREN'T performers who decline to perform there
>because they are anti-Semitic; but she does not appear to be one of them.
That's the same impression that I had.
Terry Ellsworth
Terrymelin
>be pro-Jewish (and even Jewish) and yet to oppose the Israeli government
>and its policies?
>
Of course. But one has to listen very carefully to the language used -- when I
hear people say something along the lines of "I think the way the Israelis kill
the Palestinians (this comes from the French all the time) is deplorable" but
then make no similar comment about Palestinian suicide bombers what am I to
conclude that they think that is justified? And that is anti-Semitism pure and
simple.
And when people say the US government has sold out to Jewish interests or that
it is Jews who forced us to go war -- that is anti-Semitism.
It is cloaked in respectability but that doesn't make it any less racist or
bigoted.
Terry Ellsworth
Terrymelin
>performance has to be respected for putting his/her money where his/her
>mouth is. You don't have to agree with the politics to respect such a
>statement
I don't respect that person if they are acting of a deep belief of
anti-Semitism. You certainly aren't arguing equivalency in terms of a person
who "puts his money where his/her mouth is" because they hate Jews and takes a
stand and someone who takes a stand for a moral principle are you?
>When Toscanini refused to conduct at Bayreuth under the Nazis, would you
>have accused him of "benign and well-cloaked anti-Germanism"?
>
>Tony Movshon
Sounds to me like you are equating the Nazi regime with the current Israeli
government. I hope not. Because that is not a reasonable analogy and the
situations are not comparable.
There are two sides to the current Israeli/Palestinian conflict -- and there
are rights and wrongs on both sides. There were not two sides to Nazism vs. the
rest of the civilized world.
Terry Ellsworth
REG
singers who want to work with Levine, but I was responding to the post which
gave a laundry list of singers as an endorsement in itself of Levine's
"artistry". The fact is that everyone knew that if you refused Fluffy when
he wanted you for a role, he wouldn't come back to you; that doesn't mean
that lots of singers didn't want to work with him anyway, but giving that's
not tantamount to suggesting that every singer who sang with him did so as
an endorsement of his conducting.
"Eric Grunin" <a@b.c> wrote in message
news:grsq8v43otq8t19lb...@4ax.com...
Rodger Whitlock
["Lock up your boys!"]
> ...it's not about Levine being gay,
Okay, I'm confused. Please explain, preferably using very simple
vocabulary and syntax, as the old brain is rather fatigued today.
Tony Movshon
>>Any musician who feels strongly enough about politics to withhold
>>performance has to be respected for putting his/her money where his/her
>>mouth is. You don't have to agree with the politics to respect such a
>>statement
>
> I don't respect that person if they are acting of a deep belief of
> anti-Semitism. You certainly aren't arguing equivalency in terms of a person
> who "puts his money where his/her mouth is" because they hate Jews and takes a
> stand and someone who takes a stand for a moral principle are you?
I think it's highly unlikely that a musician who "hates Jews" would take
the trouble to accept and then cancel a booking in Israel. And I find
the charge of anti-semitism comes way too easily to the lips of people
who feel pressed to defend Israel's every action.
Tony Movshon
mov...@nyu.edu
Terrymelin
>the trouble to accept and then cancel a booking in Israel. And I find
>the charge of anti-semitism comes way too easily to the lips of people
>who feel pressed to defend Israel's every action.
>
>Tony Movshon
>mov...@nyu.edu
>
>
Your really ought to read everything I said on the subject here since my
remarks do not resemble in any way what you say above.
Terry Ellsworth
Eric Grunin
> I was responding to the post which
>gave a laundry list of singers as an endorsement in itself of Levine's
>"artistry".
Caveat lector -- what I actually said was: "Each of these performers
could have any pianist they like, which is some kind of recommendation
for Levine."
>The fact is that everyone knew that if you refused Fluffy when
>he wanted you for a role, he wouldn't come back to you; that doesn't mean
>that lots of singers didn't want to work with him anyway, but giving that's
>not tantamount to suggesting that every singer who sang with him did so as
>an endorsement of his conducting.
But if that's the case here, wouldn't 'everyone' know it as well? At
least as well as they 'know' about, um, other aspects of Mr. Levine's
life?
This is getting tedious. If you actually have knowledge of Mr.
Levine's pianism, please offer it, and we can evaluate your comments
by listening to the relevant recordings (this is r.m.c.R, after all).
The rest is gossip.
Regards,
Eric Grunin
www.grunin.com/eroica
REG
Recital Hall; I thought I had made that clear. On each program, he
accompanies or collaborates with various assisting artists. What piano
performances of Levine have YOU heard in live performance? I've also heard
such performances as his Wintereisse live at Carnegie with Christa - perhaps
you have the recording.
"Eric Grunin" <a@b.c> wrote in message
news:tg8t8vo3q35q9brq0...@4ax.com...
sch...@gefen.cc.biu.ac.il
: On Thu, 03 Apr 2003 10:59:33 +0100, Neil wrote:
:> Lock up your boys !
:
: Are you telling us that Levine is gay? If so, please say so in a
: straightforward fashion instead of hauling out that hoary and
: badly overworked canard that equates adult male homosexuality
: with paedophilia.
Just because an adult male is a homosexual, it does not mean that he
is *not* a pedophile. I believe that the original poster was referring
to the well-known rumors about Mr. Levine's predilections and how his
position has protected him from the kind of treatment he would get if he
were Joe Average.
-----
Richard Schultz sch...@mail.biu.ac.il
Department of Chemistry, Bar-Ilan University, Ramat-Gan, Israel
Opinions expressed are mine alone, and not those of Bar-Ilan University
-----
It's a bird, it's a plane -- no, it's Mozart. . .
sch...@gefen.cc.biu.ac.il
: As I said before, it's one thing to do so on principle, but it's something
: else entirely to pretend to be sick, or to cancel for specious reasons.
Just to make my own position clear: if a performer says that he or she
will not perform in country X because of objections to that country's
government (or to its food, or weather, or taxi drivers), I can accept
and respect that. I have a much bigger problem with someone who contracts
to perform in that country and then cancels at the last minute for clearly
specious reasons -- or one who cancels at the last minute and refuses to
admit what the reason is, especially when the only principle at stake is
the possible difficulties it might cause in getting future bookings.
-----
Richard Schultz sch...@mail.biu.ac.il
Department of Chemistry, Bar-Ilan University, Ramat-Gan, Israel
Opinions expressed are mine alone, and not those of Bar-Ilan University
-----
"You go on playing Bach your way, and I'll go on playing him *his* way."
-- Wanda Landowska
Tony Movshon
> I believe that the original poster was referring
> to the well-known rumors
Well-known but never substantiated and by now very old (like, 20 years or so).
They persist only among those who thrill to scurrilous rumors.
Tony Movshon
mov...@nyu.edu
sch...@gefen.cc.biu.ac.il
: sch...@gefen.cc.biu.ac.il wrote:
:> I believe that the original poster was referring
:> to the well-known rumors
: Well-known but never substantiated and by now very old (like, 20 years or so).
I don't pay much attention to such rumors, nor do I know whether or not they
are true in this case; I was only clarifying the allusion to someone who
misunderstood the intent of the original poster.
-----
Richard Schultz sch...@mail.biu.ac.il
Department of Chemistry, Bar-Ilan University, Ramat-Gan, Israel
Opinions expressed are mine alone, and not those of Bar-Ilan University
-----
"We cannot see how any of his music can long survive him."
-- From the New York Daily Tribune obituary of Gustav Mahler
Matthew B. Tepper (posts from uswest.net are forged)
to be typed in news:b6p83u$p5c$2...@news.iucc.ac.il:
> In article <Xns9352822A56D...@129.250.170.82>,
> "Matthew?B.?Tepper?(posts from uswest.net are forged)"
> <oy兀earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>: As I said before, it's one thing to do so on principle, but it's
>: something else entirely to pretend to be sick, or to cancel for
>: specious reasons.
>
> Just to make my own position clear: if a performer says that he or she
> will not perform in country X because of objections to that country's
> government (or to its food, or weather, or taxi drivers), I can accept
> and respect that. I have a much bigger problem with someone who
> contracts to perform in that country and then cancels at the last minute
> for clearly specious reasons -- or one who cancels at the last minute
> and refuses to admit what the reason is, especially when the only
> principle at stake is the possible difficulties it might cause in
> getting future bookings.
At this point I don't think we're arguing; we're endeavoring to see who can
state his position more clearly. And I think you've "won."
Marc Perman
<sch...@gefen.cc.biu.ac.il> wrote in message
news:b6p83u$p5c$2...@news.iucc.ac.il...
> Just to make my own position clear: if a performer says that he
or she
> will not perform in country X because of objections to that
country's
> government (or to its food, or weather, or taxi drivers), I can
accept
> and respect that. I have a much bigger problem with someone who
contracts
> to perform in that country and then cancels at the last minute
for clearly
> specious reasons -- or one who cancels at the last minute and
refuses to
> admit what the reason is, especially when the only principle at
stake is
> the possible difficulties it might cause in getting future
bookings.
What if it's stage fright a la Argerich, Horowitz, or
Michelangeli?
Marc Perman
JRsnfld
I avoided the 7th based on comments here. There have been some positive
reports about his recent 8th, which I've been tempted by, but would like to
hear more opinions about before I decide. (I think I have plenty of 8ths as
it is.)
Does Welser-Most have some remarkable non-Bruckner recordings?
>>
My own impression of Welser-Most's Bruckner 7, after one hearing, was that it
was ok, not special. Both the Bruckner 5 and the 8 are outstanding, however.
Don't hesitate to get them if you're interested.
W-M has done other good things on record. I've just bought his Mahler 4, and
haven't had time to listen to it closely yet. I have high hopes for it. His
Schmidt Book of the Seven Seals is one of the best recordings made in recent
years. Welser-Most is very convincing in this work--and that's not easy, as one
can tell from Mitropoulos's inspiring but more uneven performance of the same.
W-M's Korngold (Symphony in F sharp) is also excellent. I admit I haven't heard
any of his other discs yet.
--Jeff
Alan Watkins
but I only know one musician who could CONDUCT, PLAY (piano) and
COMPOSE to the same standard.
His name was Bernstein.
Kind regards,
Alan M. Watkins
Matthew B. Tepper (posts from uswest.net are forged)
letters to be typed in news:oa%ja.2891$py2...@twister.nyc.rr.com:
That's an illness. Argerich has also been physically ill.
Marc Perman
"JRsnfld" <jrs...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20030406174603...@mb-ft.aol.com...
FW-M did a very good Schmidt 4th as well.
Marc Perman
Marc Perman
"Alan Watkins" <alanwa...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:62c8649c.03040...@posting.google.com...
> Of course, only Very Old Person (who has never played for Mr
Levine)
> but I only know one musician who could CONDUCT, PLAY (piano) and
> COMPOSE to the same standard.
>
> His name was Bernstein.
I would disagree because I think that Bernstein was a far better
conductor than he was a pianist or composer.
Marc Perman
Manilov
>
> W-M has done other good things on record. I've just bought his Mahler 4, and
> haven't had time to listen to it closely yet. I have high hopes for it. His
> Schmidt Book of the Seven Seals is one of the best recordings made in recent
> years. Welser-Most is very convincing in this work--and that's not easy, as one
> can tell from Mitropoulos's inspiring but more uneven performance of the same.
> W-M's Korngold (Symphony in F sharp) is also excellent. I admit I haven't heard
> any of his other discs yet.
>
> --Jeff
My own view, based solely on the three Cleveland Orchestra concerts
led by W-M at Carnegie a few weeks ago, is that the Mahler is unlikely
to be very good, but that his Johann Strauss disc might well be a
keeper (haven't heard it yet). His J Strauss was by far the best thing
at these concerts, and indeed was some of the finest Strauss
conducting I've had the pleasure to hear.
P Manilov
sch...@gefen.cc.biu.ac.il
: What if it's stage fright a la Argerich, Horowitz, or Michelangeli?
Then the performer should perhaps seek professional help. Any conductor
who suffers that badly from stage fright probably is in the wrong business.
sch...@gefen.cc.biu.ac.il
: Of course, only Very Old Person (who has never played for Mr Levine)
: but I only know one musician who could CONDUCT, PLAY (piano) and
: COMPOSE to the same standard.
:
: His name was Bernstein.
If his compositions were any indication of how he could conduct or play
the piano, then he must have been one of the century's most mediocre
conductors and pianists.
-----
Richard Schultz sch...@mail.biu.ac.il
Department of Chemistry, Bar-Ilan University, Ramat-Gan, Israel
Opinions expressed are mine alone, and not those of Bar-Ilan University
-----
Adelaide
picked up the Cleveland assistant conductor position, and he's still
finishing his masters at Rice. Spunky personality, with great baton
chops. ("baton chops"... um, my own technical term...)
Hope Jimmy and Hans get along up there in Ohio!
sch...@gefen.cc.biu.ac.il
: <sch...@gefen.cc.biu.ac.il> appears to have caused the following letters: At this point I don't think we're arguing; we're endeavoring to see who can
FWIW, you can add Daniele Gatti to the list of "European conductors who
are mysteriously unable to fulfill their commitments to the Israel
Philharmonic Orchestra." His replacement will be Benjamin Zander.
-----
Richard Schultz sch...@mail.biu.ac.il
Department of Chemistry, Bar-Ilan University, Ramat-Gan, Israel
Opinions expressed are mine alone, and not those of Bar-Ilan University
-----
"an optimist is a guy/ that has never had/ much experience"
David7Gable
>to particular types of music that aren't discussed here or is he just one of
>those names who gets a lot of stick anyway?!
In general I haven't been all that impressed with Ozawa, but he seems to have a
certain affiinity for French music from Berlioz to Messiaen. His Berlioz is a
little better than average, and his Damnation de Faust is actually pretty good.
(Love the Easter chorus in Ozawa's recording.) Ozawa's recording of Ives' 4th
Symphony is also pretty good, the 2nd movement overwhelmingly so. It's really
more rip-roaring than anybody else's, and you can also hear more within the
welter of detail.
-david gable
David7Gable
>time"
>-- every phrase and every section of a piece is articulated and projected,
>and
> makes sense.
I could not be in more total disagreement. The extraordinary virtuosity of the
orchestra Levine has built for the Met is enviable and undeniable, but it is a
bland and faceless machine. From Levine you will never hear the kind of
distinctive phrasing in Italian opera that an old house conductor like Fausto
Cleva and many lesser lights routinely provided in the past. (Like Muti,
Levine has thrown the baby out with the bath water.) The broadcast of Troyens
a few weeks ago was disappointing in the extreme featuring smooth playing
without the least distinction. His Wagner is as anonymous as it is boring.
Under Levine everything from Mozart to Berg gets the same blandly efficient
treatment. But this can't all be blamed on Levine. It's because of a change
in the culture of classical music performance. Orchestral musicians are afraid
to do anything but play exactly what's in the score, afraid to exhibit the
least musical response to the phrases embedded there. To respond would mean to
shape, and that is now strictly forbidden. The only shaping now allowed is
smooth crescendi controlled as if by rheostat. The pulsating flutes in the
septet from Troyens are not supposed to be played as if the pulsation is from a
Reich or Glass piece. You'd never know that from the Met Orchestra's
performance.
-david gable
David7Gable
>COMPOSE to the same standard.
>
>His name was Bernstein.
He was a much better conductor than composer. On the other hand, he was a good
conductor because he was a composer.
-david gable
David7Gable
>"unease" so to speak is that a great many people feel, rightly I suspect,
>that
>most of this has to do with anti-Semitism. It may be a benign and
>well-cloaked
>version of it but it is anti-Semitism just the same.
What about American Jews--I am one--who disapprove of Sharon's policies and the
Warsaw ghetto he is now building for the Palestinians? I guess we're
anti-Semitic, too. Israel is armed to the teeth and has as an ally the most
powerful nation in the world. I am not worried about its safety. I am tired
of hearing the lame argument that any objection to Israel's government policies
is necessarily anti-Semitism. This is a tactic designed to stifle debate.
-david gable
Hat NYC 62
He was a much better conductor than composer. On the other hand, he was a good
conductor because he was a composer.
>>
He was a great conductor because he was an incredible musician who learned how
to conduct. And a very persuasive interpreter.
He was a great composer (oh yes he was whether YOU like his works or not and
despite the fact that some works he wrote are stronger than others) because he
was born an genius and also worked hard at it.
Matthew B. Tepper (posts from uswest.net are forged)
letters to be typed in news:20030407140514...@mb-fx.aol.com:
I agree. These are among the highlights of Ozawa's discography.
Samir Golescu
You must be talking about Furtwangler. . .
regards,
SG
(:
A.J. Robb
> At the risk of getting off on a potentially devisive tangent, are
> there any conductors that the gentle readers of these missives view as
> having great potential? Are there a crop of incredibly talented young
> Maestri coming into view? Who are they, what are they doing now, and
> where have you heard them? What have they recorded?
>
> And, if you'll forgive the loaded question, why aren't they being
> hired as the Music Directors of prominent American orchestras, as
> opposed to the many curatorial figures we are now obliged to listen
> to?
William Eddins conducted the best interpretation of Rach's Isle of the
Dead that I've ever heard this past summer at Ravinia. Currently he
holds the title of "Resident Conductor" with the CSO. I haven't heard
him live more than that one time, but I was spellbound by the color he
summoned from the group. Unfortunately, I'm not aware of any
recordings,
Here's some info on him:
http://search.centerstage.net/music/whoswho/WilliamEddins.html
A.J.
Terrymelin
>orchestra Levine has built for the Met is enviable and undeniable, but it is
>a
>bland and faceless machine. From Levine you will never hear the kind of
>distinctive phrasing in Italian opera that an old house conductor like Fausto
>Cleva and many lesser lights routinely provided in the past. (Like Muti,
>Levine has thrown the baby out with the bath water.) The broadcast of
>Troyens
>a few weeks ago was disappointing in the extreme featuring smooth playing
>without the least distinction. His Wagner is as anonymous as it is boring.
>Under Levine everything from Mozart to Berg gets the same blandly efficient
>treatment. But this can't all be blamed on Levine. It's because of a change
>in the culture of classical music performance. Orchestral musicians are
>afraid
>to do anything but play exactly what's in the score, afraid to exhibit the
>least musical response to the phrases embedded there. To respond would mean
>to
>shape, and that is now strictly forbidden. The only shaping now allowed is
>smooth crescendi controlled as if by rheostat. The pulsating flutes in the
>septet from Troyens are not supposed to be played as if the pulsation is from
>a
>Reich or Glass piece. You'd never know that from the Met Orchestra's
>performance.
>
>-david gable
It would be nice if you occasionally said IMHO before launching into one of
these missives which sounds awfully close to some sermon on the mound which you
consider to be the absolute gospel truth rather than just the opinion of one
person posting on a ng. IMHO.
Terry Ellsworth
Terrymelin
>the
>Warsaw ghetto he is now building for the Palestinians? I guess we're
>anti-Semitic, too. Isr
No, you're just wrong. IMHO. And yes it is inflammatory and anti-Semitic to
accuse the Israeli government -- unfairly I might add -- by using terms like
"Warsaw Ghetto."
>I am tired
>of hearing the lame argument that any objection to Israel's government
>policies
>is necessarily anti-Semitism. This is a tactic designed to stifle debate.
>
I certainly didn't make that claim. Can you prove otherwise?
I also think those that are anti-Semitic often make the same claim you make
above in order to not have to answer for their anti-Jewish attitudes. It goes
both ways.
Terry Ellsworth
Terrymelin
>good
>conductor because he was a composer.
>
>-david gable
In the long run he will probably be remembered best for his compositions not
his conducting -- almost every work he ever conducted has been done better by
other conductors.
IMHO.
Terry Ellsworth
Alan Watkins
"isolated" part of the world I haven't played for many of the
"international" conductors.
Dvorak was both a conductor and a composer and so was Smetana and I
regret I missed both of them. If I could be transported in time, I
would dearly love to play the Dvorak symphonic cycle with the composer
conducting it.
I personally don't know of many talented conductors who are also
talented composers and that is why I nominated Mr Bernstein, but it's
just an opinion. You might also like to consider Mr Markevitch who
was (I think) also both a talented conductor and composer and other
people have told me that Enescu was also a fine conductor. I
certainly like his music, such of it as I have heard.
I can only speak for the timpani but some great composers (while they
may have been great conductors) wrote unplayable music for my
instrument.....Beethoven and Tchaikovksy spring to mind!
I based my judgment partly on a concert in the 1970's when we were
fortunate to be conducted by Mr Bernstein in a concert which
admittedly was bizarre and designed to show HIS talents.....the
programme was Overture: Candide followed by Mozart PC No 11 and the
second half was Symphonic Dances from West Side Story. He came with
two prepared encores: No 1 of the Slavonic Dances Op 46 and Russlan
and Lyudmilla Overture (Glinka)
I guess we were just a provincial orchestra and got overawed but we
loved him because we thought he knew what he was about.
It was quite a contrast to play for Mr Solti who, I believe, was also
a superstar. It is, I suppose, perfectly possible to be a superstar
who cannot beat accurately outside of 2/2, 4/4 and who got completely
lost in 5/4 or 6/8 but whatever the merits of Mr Bernstein as a
composer I know which of the two I'd prefer to do the Bartok Concerto
for Orchestra with as a conductor.
Maybe Mr Bernstein was to composing what Mr Solti was to conducting?
Alan Watkins
But if you are a chemist spare a thought for Mr Borodin who is
remembered both as a chemist AND a musician. Are you to be remembered
for both or are you just a chemist who doesn't actually INTERPRET
anything outside of your (valuable) test tube.
Mr Borodin did both I believe. I await your operas so that all on
here may express their opinion about them.