Furtwangler in stereo?
Daniel Kravetz
The 1954 Furtwangler FREISCHUTZ on the Rodolphe label (CD) sounds
unmistakeably like genuine stereo to me. If it's an artificial
effect of some kind, it certainly is realistic enough to fool the
casual listener. Stereo recording was being done that year in
Chicago, New York, Cincinnati, Hollywood, Geneva and possibly
Vienna, so why not Salzburg?
How far back does stereo recording go? Well, there is a Duke
Ellington CD with a couple of selections in stereo from the mid-1930's.
This was supposedly the result of combining masters from two
different mono recording machines that RCA routinely used in
their studios in those days; presumably most of their recordings
would reveal a stereo sonic image if the duplicate masters were
used as left and right channels.
Deryk Barker
: The 1954 Furtwangler FREISCHUTZ on the Rodolphe label (CD) sounds
: unmistakeably like genuine stereo to me. If it's an artificial
: effect of some kind, it certainly is realistic enough to fool the
: casual listener. Stereo recording was being done that year in
: Chicago, New York, Cincinnati, Hollywood, Geneva and possibly
: Vienna, so why not Salzburg?
Stereo recording was being done in many recording *studios* - the only
live 'genuine stereo' recording I've ever seen from 1954 (and I'm
taking the word of the cover for this, as I've never heard it) it
Toscanini's last concert. This Freischutz was recorded at the Salzburg
Festival - presumably for Austrian radio. As there were no European
radio stations broadcasting in stereo until the 1960s (AFAIK) I can
see little reason why they would record in stereo.
If I may quote John Hunt's The Furtwaengler Sound, 4th edition, "Robin
Hood and Rodolphe editions incorrecdtly labelled as stereo."
--
Deryk.
===========================================================================
|Deryk Barker, Computer Science Dept. | Across the pale parabola of Joy |
|Camosun College, Victoria, BC, Canada | |
|email: dba...@camosun.bc.ca | Ralston McTodd |
|phone: +1 604 370 4452 | (Songs of Squalor). |
===========================================================================
HenryFogel
>The 1954 Furtwangler FREISCHUTZ on the Rodolphe label (CD) sounds
>unmistakeably like genuine stereo to me. If it's an artificial
>effect of some kind, it certainly is realistic enough to fool the
>casual listener. Stereo recording was being done that year in
>Chicago, New York, Cincinnati, Hollywood, Geneva and possibly
>Vienna, so why not Salzburg?
There was no stereo broadcasting that early -- and Austrian Radio
engineers have confirmed in fact that this original was in mono only.
Rodolphe did a typical, but decent quality, "reprocessing" job, putting
more high frequencies on the left channel and low ones on the right, and
introducing a bit of a phase shift as well, and the effect is not
unpleasant, though at times it is a little unnatural sounding. To be
honest, I think the Hunt edition sounds better, but am hoping that Orfeo
or EMI, which are both issuing salzburg festival stuff directly from the
Austrian radio tapes, will issue it. I would also point out the
Freischutz was recorded in a performance a week or before the Don Giovanni
performance of August 3, 1954 -- and no one has ever claimed to have found
a "stereo" tape of that one. It is more than unlikely that they would
have done stereo in late July and then mono in August. Finally, Rodolphe
did not use the original tapes, (this is clear from the actual quality of
sound -- compare with EMI's Don Giovanni which did use the original
tapes), so they must have used a broadcast tape taken off the air -- and
since there was no stereo broadcasting in 1954, there is no way that there
could be a stereo broadcast tape. All of those facts make it
incontrovertible, I believe, that this is a monaural original that has
been reprocessed. Finally, if you would like to confirm it - listen with
headsets, and you'll find that there is not the kind of specific
instrumental imaging that you would expect in any stereo -- nor do the
singers actually move around as they must have on stage.
Henry Fogel
Fmermaid
Date: 12 Jun 1995 21:23:56 GMT
Message-ID: <3rib9c$c...@spang.camosun.bc.ca>
Daniel Kravetz (ha...@cleveland.Freenet.Edu) wrote:
: The 1954 Furtwangler FREISCHUTZ on the Rodolphe label (CD) sounds
: unmistakeably like genuine stereo to me. If it's an artificial
: effect of some kind, it certainly is realistic enough to fool the
: casual listener. Stereo recording was being done that year in
: Chicago, New York, Cincinnati, Hollywood, Geneva and possibly
: Vienna, so why not Salzburg?
Stereo recording was being done in many recording *studios* - the only
live 'genuine stereo' recording I've ever seen from 1954 (and I'm
taking the word of the cover for this, as I've never heard it) it
Toscanini's last concert. This Freischutz was recorded at the Salzburg
Festival - presumably for Austrian radio. As there were no European
radio stations broadcasting in stereo until the 1960s (AFAIK) I can
see little reason why they would record in stereo.
If I may quote John Hunt's The Furtwaengler Sound, 4th edition, "Robin
Hood and Rodolphe editions incorrecdtly labelled as stereo."
Deryk.
----------------------------------------------------------
The Toscanini last concert is indeed in real stereo. Issued on ATRA
records (Arturo Toscanini Recordings Association). Damn peculiar concert.
F Mermaid
John Proffitt
wrote:
> Stereo recording was being done in many recording *studios* - the only
> live 'genuine stereo' recording I've ever seen from 1954 (and I'm
> taking the word of the cover for this, as I've never heard it) it
> Toscanini's last concert. This Freischutz was recorded at the Salzburg
> Festival - presumably for Austrian radio. As there were no European
> radio stations broadcasting in stereo until the 1960s (AFAIK) I can
> see little reason why they would record in stereo.
>
> If I may quote John Hunt's The Furtwaengler Sound, 4th edition, "Robin
> Hood and Rodolphe editions incorrecdtly labelled as stereo."
>
> Deryk.
> ----------------------------------------------------------
> The Toscanini last concert is indeed in real stereo. Issued on ATRA
> records (Arturo Toscanini Recordings Association). Damn peculiar concert.
>
Music and Arts is distributing this CD. The sound is superb. Other
commercial recordings from 1954 include at least one other NBC/Carnegie
Hall recording, from the spring concert season, the Franck d-minor symphony
with Cantelli conducting. It is now rereleased by EMI in its two-CD
Cantelli retrospective.
RCA also recorded in stereo Toscanini's Pathetique performance (this was
the actual last concert, the Wagner was the penultimate, I believe), which
was marred by a memory lapse in the finale, at which point the Maestro put
down his baton and left the podium, never to return.
Also from spring, 1954, RCA recorded the Chicago Symphony/Reiner versions
of Strauss's Ein Heldenleben and Also sprach Zarathustra, both of which are
now available on RCA CD's.
Some commercial stereo recording was done by Remington in 1953 in
Cincinnati with Thor Johnson conducting. These recordings were once
released on vinyl by Varese Sarabande, but have not yet made it to CD.
The Germans made a few stereo recordings in Berlin during WW II. Now
available on a Koch CD is a three-movement torso of a 1944 Karajan Bruckner
8th, with the finale in genuine stereo. From Music and Arts is the 1944
Gieseking Beethoven Emperor Concerto recording, complete and in stereo.
With headphones you can hear anti-aircraft guns firing in the distance!
It is to be hoped that some enterprising company will release the
Stokowski/Philadelphia recordings from the mid-1930's, experimental stereo
courtesy of Bell Telephone Labs. These were pressed on a limited LP edition
a few years back, but not yet on CD.
Ed Kammin
>From: ha...@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Daniel Kravetz)
>Subject: Re: Furtwangler in stereo?
>Date: 11 Jun 1995 04:29:21 GMT
>The 1954 Furtwangler FREISCHUTZ on the Rodolphe label (CD) sounds
>unmistakeably like genuine stereo to me. If it's an artificial
>effect of some kind, it certainly is realistic enough to fool the
>casual listener. Stereo recording was being done that year in
>Chicago, New York, Cincinnati, Hollywood, Geneva and possibly
>Vienna, so why not Salzburg?
A note about this. In 1953 (I think it was) I was a teen-ager travelling in
Europe. One day in August we showed up in Lucerne about 4 PM, and saw posters
announcing that Furtwangler was conducting Haydn's 88th and Bruckner's 7th
that evening, as part of the Lucerne Festival. Somehow, we bought, borrowed
or stole tickets, and managed to get ourselves cleaned up and dressed
acceptably, and thus I was able, for the first and last time in my life, to
attend a concert conducted by Furtwangler.
One thing that I remember about the concert, was remarking to my companion
about the several microphones which seemed to be placed, in various
inconspicuous places, around the hall. What, I wonder, were they used for,
and was it mono or stereo?
Ed Kammin
sh...@dorsai.org
>The 1954 Furtwangler FREISCHUTZ on the Rodolphe label (CD) sounds
>unmistakeably like genuine stereo to me.
There was a release of a "Zauberflote" from Salzburg... can't remember
the year, but it was in the 1950s, so the choice is limited, since WF
died in 1954. At any rate, there was one release of it in stereo. I
used to own the lp, and the stereo effect was weak. I'm not sure if
that is a problem on the original material or not, but I was told that
several of the WF performances from Salzburg after the war were
recorded in stereo. That means there should also be a "Don Giovanni."
I, too, would be interested in anyone else with info on WF recorded in
stereo.
TransfrGuy
>ha...@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Daniel Kravetz) wrote:
I have the Gala CD and Cetra LP versions of the '54 Furtwangler
Freischutz, and though both are labelled as being in stereo, the
two-channel effect is phony. Cetra issued several other Furtwangler
performances which they claimed were from two-channel masters (1951
Zauberflote, Don Giovanni, Otello, Hindemith's Harmonie der Welt), but
none is genuine stereo.
It's certainly possible that true-stereo Furtwangler recordings exist; I
read somewhere that his 1944 Bayreuth Meistersinger was recorded on stereo
tape. However, to my knowledge, no one has yet discovered an authentic
two-channel WF recording. (Am I right, Mr. Fogel?)
- Mark Obert-Thorn (Trans...@aol.com)
HenryFogel
ha...@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Daniel Kravetz) wrote:
>The 1954 Furtwangler FREISCHUTZ on the Rodolphe label (CD) sounds
>unmistakeably like genuine stereo to me.
It is not genuine stereo. This has even been documented now by the
Austrian radio, which did not record Salzburg performances in stereo in
the 1950s. It is a reasonably good job of fake stereo, which can be
accomplished by dividing the frequencies so that the highs are on the
left, the bass on the right - which tends to put the violins to the left
and cellos and basses to the right. And some phase shifting is also added
to create a sense of depth. You can confirm that it is not real stereo by
switching to mono when you're playing it, and notice how much worse the
sound gets - which it would not if it were genuine stereo.
Remember that the Salzburg "Freischutz" was a staged performance, not a
studio recording done in a lab -- and in 1954 no one was recording staged
opera performances in stereo, which would have created monumental cabling
and other logistical difficulties with the equipment available then. What
stereo recording was being done in the early 1950s (and there was very,
very little of it) was being done in experimental studios. Commercial
stereo tape recorders were not even generally available at that time.
Rumors of this and other Furtwangler stereo recordings have always been
demonstrated to be incorrect when tracked down by going to the original
source of the recordings. There are no known stereo recordings by
Furtwangler.
Henry Fogel