The Greatest Horn Section of them all
ansermetniac
NY Phil 1948-49
Actually when Dinny joined in 50 to replace Taylor who became
Principal in Cleveland, they were even better
Not too many changes until Chambers retired in 1969
1) 1950 Dinny replaces Taylor
2) 1957 Namen and Dinny switch chairs
3) 1960 Fisher dies and Dinny moves up to third and John Carabella
joins as second
4) 1961 Ricci retires after almost 50 years and is replaced by A.
Robert Johnson. Before 1946 , Ricci was third
5) 1968 Chambers and Singer switch chairs
6) 1969 Chambers retires and is replaced by L. William Kupyer. Johnson
quits and is replaced by John Cerminaro who does not have to audition
In 1970 The board told Kuyper they are switching his and Cerminaro's
contract and if he doesn't like it, leave. Singer switches to a Paxman
high F horn and the Chambesr sound is over. In 1975 Singer retires and
is replaced by Cerminaro who in the meantime has changed his style to
sound like Mason Jones with a vibrato. Dinny and Carabella have had
enough and Cerminaro is fired in 1979. Phil Myers is hired instead of
Myron Bloom putting the final nail in the coffin of the Chambers sound
and the NY brass sound of 1946-68 when coupled with the hiring of Phil
Smith as Principal Trumpet
Cerminaro was Chambers's protege. he joined the NY Phil without an
audition and was pushed up to Principal. His betrayal of his master to
play an easier style of playing is the main reason why Chambers,once
the most influential horn player in America is all but a forgotten man
20 years after his death
BTW , Cerminaro lost the Seattle audition but his buddy Gerry
Schwarz(Co-Principal trumpet during Cerminaro's tenure in NY) demanded
that he get the job. He is not well liked in Seattle and had his horn
damaged anonymously
Abbedd
herman
Are you aware that the world is bigger than NYC, and that in Europe,
for instance, virtually no one ever listens to the NYPO, from whatever
era?
ansermetniac
wrote:
If I had to listen to Gerd Seifert et al I would npot know what a horn
soundd like either
Abbedd
M forever
You don't know what a horn sounds like. That is glaringly obvious from
your "remasterings". And that is one of the reasons why you completely
failed as a horn player yourself.
You are just jealous and threatened by the many highly successful
professional horn players, Seifert is just one of many examples, who
actually have/had a career while you didn't even get into music
school.
It is telling that a self-declared "expert in wind playing" doesn't
get the simple basic fact that there is no single "right" or "wrong"
way of playing the horn, or any other instrument. The diversity of
styles is one of the things which make listening to various players
from various places and eras so interesting.
If there were "right" or "wrong" styles, then American players would
mostly be among the "wrong" ones. Most "classical" music does not come
from America. But that is already way over your head.
GT
terrible too?
M forever
> What do you think of William Lane and Charles Kavalovsky? Were they
> terrible too?
Are you asking me or Ansermetniac?
ansermetniac
wrote:
>What do you think of William Lane and Charles Kavalovsky? Were they
>terrible too?
Never heard Lane. Kavalovksy had no sound. But no brass in Boston ever
did. They embarrassed themselves playing with Ansermet. Toscanini
refused to go there
Abbedd
GT
I was asking ansermetniac.
pianomaven
He knows nothing.
Better to ask a cement wall.
TD
Bob Harper
This is unexceptionable, and I suspect everyone here except Jeffrey
would agree completely. I certainly do. But why did you consider it
necessary to add the final, utterly gratuitous, paragraph?
Bob Harper
ansermetniac
I know YOU are a total phony.
Does THAT count for something
Abbedd
ansermetniac
<bob.h...@comcast.net> wrote:
>> It is telling that a self-declared "expert in wind playing" doesn't
>> get the simple basic fact that there is no single "right" or "wrong"
>> way of playing the horn, or any other instrument. The diversity of
>> styles is one of the things which make listening to various players
>> from various places and eras so interesting.
Tell Toscanini or any other genius that there are other ways to do
things
You just don't get how to be anything but mediocre
Shall we call you Salieri?
Abbedd
Bob Harper
Well, I didn't write that. Michael did. But I endorse it. Even your idol
Toscanini knew that Furtwängler was a genius, no matter how different
their approaches to a given work may have been. To think there's only
*one* way to perform a piece of great music, or to play a given
instrument, is absurd.
Bob Harper
Matthew B. Tepper
letters to be typed in news:i3Qpo.213216$Bh.146019@en-nntp-
12.dc1.easynews.com:
> Even your idol Toscanini knew that Furtwängler was a genius, no matter how
> different their approaches to a given work may have been.
Indeed, I've always felt sorry for those among Furtwängler's fan club who
always feel the need to denigrate the work of other conductors, especially
Toscanini, in order that their idol may be worshipped as supreme. As a
confessed (and not entirely uncritical!) admirer of Toscanini, I've often
found much that is great in Furtwängler, Klemperer, Walter, Kleiber père, and
so on (hmmm, do you think that nationality might figure into it somehow?).
--
Matthew B. Tepper: WWW, science fiction, classical music, ducks!
Read about "Proty" here: http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/proty.html
To write to me, do for my address what Androcles did for the lion
Opinions expressed here are not necessarily those of my employers
ansermetniac
<bob.h...@comcast.net> wrote:
You don't get it either. Toscanini hated Furtwangler. Don't drink the
kool-aid
Abbedd
M forever
Simple: because it's true. Most "classical" music does not come from
America. The concept of "right" or "wrong" is nonsensical in music,
but if one wanted to play that nonsensical game and establish which
styles are more "right", then it certainly wouldn't be playing styles
developed in America.
There is nothing "gratuitous" (in the dictionary sense of "being
without apparent reason") about my remark. It is a direct reply to
Ansermetniac's claim that only certain horn players in a certain era
in NY could actually play the horn in the one and only "right" way.
> > If there were "right" or "wrong" styles, then American players would
> > mostly be among the "wrong" ones. Most "classical" music does not come
> > from America. But that is already way over your head.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
M forever
> On Sat, 02 Oct 2010 16:00:54 -0700, Bob Harper
>
> >> It is telling that a self-declared "expert in wind playing" doesn't
> >> get the simple basic fact that there is no single "right" or "wrong"
> >> way of playing the horn, or any other instrument. The diversity of
> >> styles is one of the things which make listening to various players
> >> from various places and eras so interesting.
>
> Tell Toscanini or any other genius that there are other ways to do
> things
Toscanini conducted other orchestras as well, e.g. the Wiener
Philharmoniker or BBC Symphony. The former's Viennese horns are the
closest thing to what the majority of composers in the standard mid
19th to early 20th century wrote for.
That's not a matter of taste or opinion, but a simple fact.
Besides, your other idol Ansermet and his OSR conducted and played in
ways quite different from Toscanini and his NY bands. Are you saying
that therefore everything Ansermet and his band did was "wrong"?
ansermetniac
wrote:
>
>Besides, your other idol Ansermet and his OSR conducted and played in
>ways quite different from Toscanini and his NY bands
Incredibly wrong
And AT broke the Viennese horns during the Meis Act III prelude. It is
pathetic sounding
You really know nothing of what you are re talking about
If you think the sound the BPO makes on the crappy Alex 103s is good
then more power to ya.
Abbedd
M forever
> On Sat, 2 Oct 2010 18:40:39 -0700 (PDT), M forever <ms1...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>
>
> >Besides, your other idol Ansermet and his OSR conducted and played in
> >ways quite different from Toscanini and his NY bands
>
> Incredibly wrong
Incredibly right. Of course, once you are through with a recording, no
matter if it is AT or EA or whoever else, they all do sound more or
less the same: like shit.
> And AT broke the Viennese horns during the Meis Act III prelude.\
What did he do? Did he step on the horns? Was that because he was so
shortsighted? Did he pay to have the instruments repaired or replaced?
Meistersinger - good example, BTW. Written for exactly the kind of
horn the Viennese play.
> It is
> pathetic sounding
>
> You really know nothing of what you are re talking about
>
> If you think the sound the BPO makes on the crappy Alex 103s is good
> then more power to ya.
Not my all-time favorite horn sound either; a little too bright and
steely for my own taste; but definitely highly accomplished players,
vastly superior to a loser like you who didn't even get into music
school.
Bob Harper
No one would ever claim that most 'classical' music comes from America.
That is simply an historical fact, but it does not make your last
paragraph any less gratuitous, unless you're going to maintain that
'national characteristics' are determinative of the ability to play
music of a given nationality. I rather doubt that is your purpose, but
in this instance it sounds like it. It is no more silly to maintain, as
Jeffrey does, that a certain 'American' horn sound is 'correct' than it
is to maintain that the sound of the horns in the BPO or the VPO is
'correct'. What about, say, Dennis Brain? I agree that such a game is
nonsensical, but maintain my characterization of your final paragraph as
gratuitous, even as I agree with your main point.
Bob Harper
Gerard
> http://img208.imageshack.us/img208/6162/cida59c5dd6945f4b8998ef.jpg
>
This photo we've seen already dozens of times.
ansermetniac
wrote:
>Also, not everyone playing in the New York Philharmonic or any other
>orchestra (including the Buffalo Philharmonic mentioned in another
>thread) are American players. Some of them are from Europe, were
>trained in Europe, and play with that sound, whatever that may mean.
Do YOU really think someone who comes to the NY Phil can play
European style? They like to be, but they ARE NOT a community
orchestra
Abbedd
kbay...@gmail.com
> 6) 1969 Chambers retires and is replaced by L. William Kupyer. Johnson
> quits and is replaced by John Cerminaro who does not have to audition
>
>
> audition and was pushed up to Principal. His betrayal of his master to
> play an easier style of playing is the main reason why Chambers,once
> the most influential horn player in America is all but a forgotten man
> 20 years after his death
>
>
> BTW , Cerminaro lost the Seattle audition but his buddy Gerry
> Schwarz(Co-Principal trumpet during Cerminaro's tenure in NY) demanded
> that he get the job. He is not well liked in Seattle and had his horn
> damaged anonymously
>
> Abbedd
Ken H.
