Kubelik's Mahler, DG vs Audite

[david...@aol.com]

I very much like most of the performances in the complete set of Mahler
symphonies on DG with Kubelik and the Bavarians. I suppose I
particularly like the 2, 5, 7, and 8. (I don't listen to anybody's 1
any more, can live without Kubelik's 4th.) The DG 7th is one of the
few performances of the symphony that I find entirely convincing. I've
also got the live 7 with the same forces on Audite. If anybody here
has heard any of the other live Kubelik performances on Audite, I'd
love comparison of the individual Audite recordings to the DG.

-david gable

[jpax...@yahoo.com]

How do you like the Audite 7th? I was thinking about ordering this the
other day. Thanks.

Jim A.

[david...@aol.com]

Jim asks:

"How do you like the Audite 7th?"

I haven't listened to it in a while, but I like it a lot. On the basis
of the live performances and recordings I've heard, the 7th strikes me
as the least well served Mahler symphony. Of studio recordings in
listenable sound, the only one I've ever found completely convincing is
the Kubelik. When somebody here found the live recording with the same
forces even more convincing, I had to hear it. I'm not sure I think it
is an improvement, but it certainly is as good as the DG recording. In
the first movement, for my money one of Mahler's most interesting
forms, Kubelik sustains a remarkable level of intensity through gear
shift after gear shift. The movement depends on a kind of relentless
momentum that nevertheless shifts in response to the changing
contrapuntal treatment Mahler gives his evolving motivic shapes.
Kubelik rises to the occasion.

-david gable

[Todd Schurk]

It's funny that this Audite 7th and the Dg version are quite
similar(though I prefer the Audite which seems a bit more intense and
freer as well) whereas the Kubelik/NY Phil. included in the NY Phil.
Mahler edition is so much broader and deliberate as to be from a
different conductor. But very worth a hearing-if only it were not so
hard to come by not to mention mucho $. I also love the
Kondrashin?Concertgebouw 7th on Tahra-it blazes like the sun! But also
creeps darkly where called for.

[Matthew Silverstein]

I have the Audite 2. I recently compared the first movements of the DG and
Audite recordings. The interpretation doesn't change much across the two
performances, but I much prefer the studio account on DG. The contrasts
(tempo and dynamic) are played up a bit more, the playing is better
(especially in the quiet bits), and the recorded sound is much superior (at
least in terms of dyanmic range). I don't think you need to hear the Audite
if you have the DG. The DG may be my favorite "central" performance of the
opening movement.

That said, there is one absolutely wonderful moment on the live recording:
near the start of the development, the new English horn melody (at
rehearsal number 8 in the score) is beautifully phrased--a unique touch
full of character. Based only on this comparison of the first movements, I
might keep the Audite just for that moment. (But them, I'm obsessive about
Mahler 2.)

Matty

[Raymond Hall]

<david...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1137956075.6...@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...

Kubelik's Mahler 7th, on DG, was the only recording that convinced me fully
of the symphony. It all made sense with Kubelik.

Ray H
Taree

[Bob Harper]

I have all the Audite performances, as well as the DG box. I find the
Audite performances almost without exception a bit more spontaneous, and
I like their sound better. The exception is the 9th, which was recorded
on tour in Japan. It's been a while since I listened to it, but it
struck me as signifiantly less well-played than the studio version, nor
was the sound as good. If you like the DG 8th, by all means get the
Audite (from the live performance[s?] which preceded the recording. I
attended the live performance, and the Audite disc brought back the
excitement I felt all those years ago. I'm hopeful there's still a 4th
to come; unlike you, I quite like the studio version and believe a live
version would be just that much better.

Bob Harper

[Marc Perman]

"Bob Harper" <bob.h...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:07idndIm1dWGbE7e...@comcast.com...

> I have all the Audite performances, as well as the DG box. I find the
> Audite performances almost without exception a bit more spontaneous, and I
> like their sound better. The exception is the 9th, which was recorded on
> tour in Japan. It's been a while since I listened to it, but it struck me
> as signifiantly less well-played than the studio version, nor was the
> sound as good. If you like the DG 8th, by all means get the Audite (from
> the live performance[s?] which preceded the recording. I attended the live
> performance, and the Audite disc brought back the excitement I felt all
> those years ago. I'm hopeful there's still a 4th to come; unlike you, I
> quite like the studio version and believe a live version would be just
> that much better.

I've got four of the Audites, and would agree. Based on what I've heard (1,
2, 5, and 9), Kubelik's Audite Mahler is to his DG Mahler much as Haitink's
Mahler Christmas performances are to his studio set (though I prefer Kubelik
in the studio to Haitink, at least as far as Mahler goes).

Marc Perman

[ex-neo-con]

I've heard the Audite 8th, and it knocked my socks off. In fact, I
like it much more than the DG recording.

ex-neo-con

[Larry Rinkel]

"Raymond Hall" <rayt...@bigpond.com> wrote in message
news:U%RAf.224448$V7.1...@news-server.bigpond.net.au...

Your comment and David Gable's intrigue me, as I have rarely felt that a
performance convinces me of a piece of music one way or another. My question
to both of you is, what makes this performance so more convincing than any
other? And does it have something to do with the last movement, of which one
often hears the assertion that it does not match in tone the preceding
movements, or does not come up to their level? (I'm pleased to say I have
the Kubelik DG box, but don't remember my reactions to this particular
performance. Time to take it out for another spin.)

I also know I dislike the Klemperer intensely.

[rkhalona]

It is not an "either or". If you like one, in time you will want the
other.

RK
(a Kubelik completist who wouldn't be without either)

[david...@aol.com]

Larry remarks:

"I have rarely felt that a performance convinces me of a piece of music
one way or another."

I didn't mean to say that Kubelik convinced me of the merit of the
piece and/or of the efficacy of its form. I meant to say that I found
his performance convincing.

-david gable

[david...@aol.com]

Ramon wrote

"It is not an 'either or'. If you like one, in time you will want the
other."

Well, that was more or less my feeling about the two 7ths. But one
always wants more than one can either afford or hope to listen to,
hence my query.

-david gable

[Raymond Hall]

<david...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1138004255....@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...

Which, of course, also adds to the overall comprehension of the piece. Lenny
was always exciting, with a blinding final movement, but it was Kubelik that
pieced it all together for me.

It is all very well saying that Mahler's 6th can have the two middle
movements ordered according to taste, for which I happen to prefer the
Andante-Scherzo order for overall balance, but with the 7th, the three
middle movements *must* be played in the order of the Allegro moderato -
Scherzo - Andante amoroso, the latter being the movement of awakening from a
nightmare, which leads into the bright light of the Rondo-Finale.

Kubelik made this abundantly clear. At least for me. I'd happily chuck the
2nd, 5th and the 8th, for the 6th and 7th, anyday of the week.

Haven't heard any of the Audite recordings as of yet.

Ray H
Taree

[Tony - sidoze]

Even though there's no competition from DG in this, you must hear
Kubelik's Das Lied on Audite. My personal favourite, if that means
anything.

[david...@aol.com]

Ray wrote:

"I'd happily chuck the 2nd, 5th and the 8th, for the 6th and 7th,
anyday of the week."

You better be careful, Ray. People will begin to suspect you're a
hardcore modernist!

-david gable

[Joe Martin]

Bob Harper wrote:
> > I have all the Audite performances, as well as the DG box. I find the
> Audite performances almost without exception a bit more spontaneous, and
> I like their sound better. The exception is the 9th, which was recorded
> on tour in Japan.

I would agree with that, though I should note I do not have the live 2,
4, or 6. I don't have the Audites at hand, but I seem to recall that
they were recorded over a significantly long span of time, with some of
them being made at almost the same time as the studio DGs and some of
them much later. Those recorded closest to the studio dates, not
surprisingly, tend to be closer interpretively--though none represent
huge changes from the DGs. (And Kubelik was certainly capable of
completely re-thinking these works: listen to his live NYPO 7th!)

The 3, 5, 7, 8, and DLVDE in this series are must-haves, IMO. 1 and 9
are the only cases where I don't think the studio version was bested.
(Though I should add that even there, I prefer the sound on the live
Audites.) If you like Kubelik's DG Mahler, you will definitely enjoy
these.