Beethoven SQ by The Vegh Quartet

[MIFrost]

Is this set, the 70s recordings on Naive-Astree, availaible anywhere or is it OOP? TIA

MIFrost

[randy...@gmail.com]

On Monday, December 24, 2012 4:27:42 PM UTC-8, MIFrost wrote:
> Is this set, the 70s recordings on Naive-Astree, availaible anywhere or is it OOP? TIA
>
>
>
> MIFrost

Last time I searched it was definately OOP, and I have watched diligently for a reissue for several years.
An inexpensive reissue of the older set would be nice also.

[MIFrost]

Thanks. I suspected this to be the case. I have two complete sets of the quartets: the Tokyo and the Alban Berg. I also have the Turner Quartet for the Op 18, the Takacs for the middle and the Yale for the late and that hodge-podge is my favorite for the complete "set."

MIFrost

[John Thomas]

There's an Mp3 version of the set available on Amazon.com but it's
expensive. The Music & Arts lssue of their earlier mono set can be
found at Arkiv Music.

[phlogiston]

Some highly speculative prices on Amazon UK for Vegh quartet.
£655 for the '93 Beethoven cycle.
Several other cds going for £100+

Boris

[William Sommerwerck]

> Last time I searched it was definately OOP, and I have watched
> diligently for a reissue for several years. An inexpensive reissue
> of the older set would be nice also.

Arkiv offers an MP3 of the mono set.

[William Sommerwerck]

> Is this set, the 70s recordings on Naive-Astree,

> available anywhere or is it OOP?

Actually, the label is Valois (or Auvidis-Valois). The catalog number for the
boxed set of the 1972-1974 stereo recordings is V4400.

Either the set didn't receive wide distribution in the US, or its owners don't
want to let go of it, because I've never been able to find it, used or
otherwise. (Mine was purchased directly from the importer, I believe.)

I just checked eBay, and someone in Greece sold the set for US $153.50 -- on
December 4th! You can create a permanent search on eBay, and you'll be
informed when anything matching it shows up.

As Valois appears to be kaput, I'd be willing to make copies for the cost of
materials and postage.

PS: If anyone has CD volume 2 of Schumann's piano works played by Karl Engel,
I'd like to purchase it.

[Alan Cooper]

"William Sommerwerck" <grizzle...@comcast.net> wrote in news:kbc61b
$hlj$1...@dont-email.me:

...although it is in no way preferable to the recordings that MIFrost has
already (ABQ, Tokyo, Turner, Takacs, Yale). The stereo Vegh set, for all
its technical fallibility, is far more interesting than the mono one imo,
and I imagine that it will be back in print sooner or later.

While I was poking around, I noted that the justifiably famous Talich
Quartet cycle is scheduled for reissue on a small label distributed by
HM: http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0090OPC2S/. The blurb: "Long absent from
the active catalog following the unfortunate demise of the Calliope
label, the highly-praised Beethoven interpretations of the legendary
Talich Quartet make a welcome return with this specially-priced, limited-
edition reissue from La Dolce Volta. The original seven-disc set of the
complete String Quartets has been digitally remastered for optimal sound
and is presented in a deluxe package befitting the nobility of these
wonderful performances."

There have long been complaints about the recorded sound; I wonder if the
remastering seriously addresses them. In any case, this remains one of
the great recorded cycles, especially for the Middle and Late Quartets.

AC

[William Sommerwerck]

I'm listening to quartets 8 and 9 as I write this. I understand why some
listeners are bothered by the Vegh's sometimes "leisurely" approach, but it
doesn't strike me as wayward or perverse. For example, the first movement of
the 9th receives an appropriately Haydnish slow introduction. (I'm amazed at
how often performers miss this, especially in the symphonies.)

[Gerard]

Alan Cooper <amcoo...@SPAMoptonline.net> typed:

See also the thread "Talich Quartet Beethoven cycle - Dolce Volta budget reissue
soon" started at September 6:

http://groups.google.com/group/rec.music.classical.recordings/browse_frm/thread/a43adca5c29dca14/7569e4b26cd03308?hl=nl&lnk=gst&q=talich+beethoven#7569e4b26cd03308

[William Sommerwerck]

> While I was poking around, I noted that the justifiably famous Talich
> Quartet cycle is scheduled for reissue on a small label distributed by
> HM: http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0090OPC2S/. The blurb: "Long absent
> from the active catalog following the unfortunate demise of the
> Calliope label, the highly-praised Beethoven interpretations of the
> legendary Talich Quartet make a welcome return with this
> specially-priced, limited- edition reissue from La Dolce Volta. The
> original seven-disc set of the complete String Quartets has been
> digitally remastered for optimal sound and is presented in a deluxe
> package befitting the nobility of these wonderful performances."

I just ordered it from Arkiv. (And the Mozart SQs.) Both are on sale.

Note that Arkiv is now offering unlimited shipping (except for items shipped
from Canada) at $10 for one year. Nice.

[Bob Harper]

I have the Talich on Calliope (both Beethoven and Mozart 14-23), and
while the sound isn't wonderful, I wonder if the reissues are an
improvement. I'd be curious to hear.

Bob Harper

[William Sommerwerck]

I was so impressed with Vegh's 8 and 9, that I've decided to listen to the
whole set. A nice way to spend Christmas.

[MIFrost]

The Talich is available now for a very low price at Daedalus Music on-line.
http://www.daedalusbooks.com/Products/Detail.asp?ProductID=102299&Media=Music&SubCategoryID=&ReturnUrl=%2FProducts%2FSearch%2FQuickSearchResult%2Easp%3FSearch%3Dtalich%26Media%3DMusic

MIFrost

[randy...@gmail.com]

Label of origin is indeed Valois. The Valois catalog though became the property of Astree at one time, and then Astree became the property of Naive.

In the 1970s, Telefunken obtained a license to produce and sell the Vegh set, along with many other Valois titles (which is, of course, how Telefunken came to issue the Chapuis Bach Organ Works LP sewt that had the mini scores).

Perhaps our best hope of seeing the Vegh stereo Beethoven set the OP wants is United Archives, who last year licensed the Chapuis set from Naive.

[wkasimer]

On Dec 25, 8:16 am, Alan Cooper <amcoope...@SPAMoptonline.net> wrote:

> The stereo Vegh set, for all
> its technical fallibility, is far more interesting than the mono one imo,

I agree. I found the monaural set surprisingly uninteresting, and
didn't keep it once I found a copy of the stereo set.

Bill

[John Thomas]

My experience as well. Unfortunately, I lent the stereo version to a
"friend" some time ago and haven't seen it since.

[John Thomas]

> The Talich is available now for a very low price at Daedalus Music on-line.http://www.daedalusbooks.com/Products/Detail.asp?ProductID=102299&Med...
>
> MIFrost

Thanks for this!

[Herman]

Le mardi 25 décembre 2012 15:25:21 UTC+1, Bob Harper a écrit :


>
> I have the Talich on Calliope (both Beethoven and Mozart 14-23), and
>
> while the sound isn't wonderful, I wonder if the reissues are an
>
> improvement. I'd be curious to hear.
>

I have most of the Talich's later and middle LvB quartets on Calliope singles and I have to say I have always been rather puzzled by the cult status some people accord these recordings. As I'm typing this I am listening to the Heiliger Dankgesang, and it's frankly far from compelling and appallingly lacklustre. Earlier today I listened to the 135, same story.

Also, as I have pointed out various times, I wonder if one can really speak of "the" Talich Quartet, there have been so many personnel changes.

[wade]

On Tuesday, December 25, 2012 5:02:54 AM UTC-8, William Sommerwerck wrote:

How can you see prior sales results for an item in Amazon?

[William Sommerwerck]

> How can you see prior sales results for an item in Amazon?

You have to have an eBay account, and be signed in. The account costs nothing,
and does not oblige you in any way.

[wade]

I have that, didnt know there was a way to sales history on an item like is available in EBAY. Have to look for that option.

[William Sommerwerck]

> How can you see prior sales results for an item in Amazon?

You do an Advanced search, and choose the option for completed auctions.

[Dontait...@aol.com]

I bought the LPs of the Vegh stereo recordings of the Razoumovskys and late quartets. I couldn't agree with you more. Their versions of the late quartets, in particular, rank for me with the Busch Quartet. Meaning overwhelming.

Don Tait

[td]

On Dec 25, 8:02 am, "William Sommerwerck" <grizzledgee...@comcast.net>
wrote:

> PS: If anyone has CD volume 2 of Schumann's piano works played by Karl Engel,
> I'd like to purchase it.

For Heaven's sake why?

TD

[randy...@gmail.com]

Exactly that, For Heaven's skae (i.e., show grace to Karl Engel).

[William Sommerwerck]

wrote in message news:3d9c032a-3173-4f19...@googlegroups.com...

I finally finished listening to the set. My reaction is that the Vegh take a
Haydn-esque approach to most of the quartets. The "intensity" one might expect
from Beethoven is underplayed, and that's not necessarily a bad thing. Indeed,
the first couple of quartets sound an awful lot like Haydn -- which is hardly
surprising.

The up-tempo movements are brisk and light. They dance and flit and chirp --
which I find appealing. The Vegh not only knows this music, but enjoys
performing it.

One thing I don't find appealing is the sound. When I bought the set 20-odd
years ago, I noticed how "drab" and "blah" the sound was. At that time I had
B&W 801 speakers. Now I have Apogee Divas. The sound is even worse. It's dark,
and doesn't have the tonal balance and texture I expect from a group of string
instruments heard up-close. (I've recorded string quartet on several
occasions.) Worse, the sound is sometimes unpleasantly gritty/grotty/raspy. It
is not up to the standards of a good 1972 recording, let alone one from the
late 50s.

[td]

Why? Dry stick!

TD

[Bob Harper]

the sound of this set has always come in for criticism. Even so, one of
the greats. It would be nice to think that 1) something could be done
about it, and 2) that someone would do it. If so, I'd be in line to buy
a copy, but I'm not holding my breath.

Bob Harper

[William Sommerwerck]

> The sound of this set has always come in for criticism. Even so,

> one of the greats. It would be nice to think that 1) something
> could be done about it, and 2) that someone would do it. If so,
> I'd be in line to buy a copy, but I'm not holding my breath.

Applying EQ with taste and discretion would be a major step in improving the
sound. It might be that the need to "spruce up" the recording to make it
acceptable might be the reason no one wants to reissue it.

[randy...@gmail.com]

I recall seeing some of the Engel volumes at Amoeba Music in San Francisco the last time I was there. I am to far away to check for you now though, and do not have plans to go there anytime soon.

BTW there is also a 13 CD set on Brilliant Classics with a variety of artists. UPC 5028421940083.

On Friday, January 4, 2013, William Sommerwerck wrote:
> PS: If anyone has CD volume 2 of Schumann's piano works
> played by Karl Engel, I'd like to purchase it.
 

As many collectors, I have a compulsion to buy Gesamtwerk boxes. Volume 1 of the Engel set was bought over 20 years ago. The importer didn't have the second set in stock, and a weird UPS error caused the importer to stop selling me disks (even though I was reviewer).
 
Anyhow, as I look through my collection, I find I have only one (nominally) complete Schumann solo-piano set, performed by the estimable Jorg Demus. I had owned -- and liked -- the MHS LPs, which is why I bought the CDs. (I actually have two sets -- perhaps I should sell one.)
 
Engel has a sterling reputation -- but I can't find a review of his Schumann cycle. I found a dealer with the second volume of the Engel, but the best price I could get was $150 * -- for an unopened box that’s lain in the seller's warehouse for 25 years.
 
http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/B00008FYOK/ref=dp_olp_0?ie=UTF8&condition=all
 
There aren't many Schumann cycles. Claves has one played by four different pianists. Some have received enthusiastic reviews. There's a similar Brilliant box, also receiving an Arkiv thumbs-up.
 
There's a cycle from Eric Le Sage (whom I know nothing of) at a super-budget price (due out on 1/08/2013), and an in-progress cycle from Michael Endres (also unknown to me) that seems unlikely to be completed.
 
Though Brahms and Schumann are my favorite composers, I've never thoroughly explored the latter's piano music. ** Any thoughts about complete sets?
 
Thanks for your time.
 
* I just looked, and the seller has raised its price to $180! This is like applying the quantum-mechanical effect of an observation affecting the outcome of an experiment, to retail sales.
 
** I have, however, heard several Horowitz performances of the Kinderszenen. What he does to the piece is the musical equivalent (forgive me, Vladimir) of child molestation.
 
 
"'We already know the answers -- we just haven't asked the right questions."
-- Edwin Land

[Alan Cooper]

randy...@gmail.com wrote in
news:47f96dcc-98ed-47a3...@googlegroups.com:

> Anyhow, as I look through my collection, I find I have only one
> (nominally) complete Schumann solo-piano set, performed by the
> estimable Jorg Demus. I had owned -- and liked -- the MHS LPs, which
> is why I bought the CDs. (I actually have two sets -- perhaps I should
> sell one.)
>

<snip>

>
> There aren't many Schumann cycles. Claves has one played by four
> different pianists. Some have received enthusiastic reviews. There's a
> similar Brilliant box, also receiving an Arkiv thumbs-up.
>
> There's a cycle from Eric Le Sage (whom I know nothing of) at a
> super-budget price (due out on 1/08/2013), and an in-progress cycle
> from Michael Endres (also unknown to me) that seems unlikely to be
> completed.
>
> Though Brahms and Schumann are my favorite composers, I've never
> thoroughly explored the latter's piano music. ** Any thoughts about
> complete sets?

Demus, while uneven, is far preferable to what I've heard of Engel. And
you should acquaint yourself with Endres and (especially) Le Sage, both
excellent. I suppose it's pointless to suggest that you listen more
selectively, since there are so many superb recordings of individual
works, and the works themselves are of variable quality.

AC

[William Sommerwerck]

> I recall seeing some of the Engel volumes at Amoeba Music
> in San Francisco the last time I was there. I am to far away
> to check for you now though, and do not have plans to go
> there anytime soon.

I can always call them.

The LPs are commonly available on eBay.

[William Sommerwerck]

>> Though Brahms and Schumann are my favorite composers, I've never
>> thoroughly explored the latter's piano music. ** Any thoughts about
>> complete sets?

> Demus, while uneven, is far preferable to what I've heard of Engel.
> And you should acquaint yourself with Endres and (especially) Le
> Sage, both excellent. I suppose it's pointless to suggest that you
> listen more selectively, since there are so many superb recordings
> of individual works, and the works themselves are of variable quality.

No, it's not at all pointless. Complete sets can be a good starting point,
though.

After examining reviews of Le Sage, I'm seriously considering buying the set.
Some reviews are largely negative, but most are enthusiastic. One rather
quaint review said that Le Sage's performances of Schumann's chamber music
were better than those of solo-piano music, because having to work with other
musicians apparently forced him to make better and less-quirky interpretive
decisions.

[Herman]

Le vendredi 4 janvier 2013 18:50:02 UTC+1, William Sommerwerck a écrit :

> One rather
>
> quaint review said that Le Sage's performances of Schumann's chamber music
>
> were better than those of solo-piano music, because having to work with other
>
> musicians apparently forced him to make better and less-quirky interpretive
>
> decisions.

LeSage is not a "quirky" interpeter.

You want quirky? Take Horowitz.

The problem (possibly) with LeSage's chamber music recordings could be that his co-musicians and he haven't performed the music they're recording on the road.

So some of these pieces do not sound fully lived-in - to my ears.

[Steve Emerson]

In article <kc74oe$brf$1...@dont-email.me>,

This being RMCR, and your being a contributor, you might also look into
what people have said, on RMCR, about LeSage. I've found him a little
uneven myself, but several items would rank at the top of my list for
the work in question. Something I'd never have expected in a complete
set, given the pantheonic Schumann recordings of people like Cortot,
Horowitz, Richter, Rachmaninoff, and Sofronitsky among others.

If LeSage's Schumann is going to be available at low price, I would jump
on it, regardless of the fact it includes chamber works of whatever
level of interest. Neither Demus nor Engel, both of whom are respectable
musicians, is anything like the pianist LeSage is.

Myself, I see no point whatsoever in starting with less-than-great
recordings of Schumann piano works. E.g., the Kreisleriana, Humoreske,
Davidsbundlertanze, and Fantasy in C are so utterly different and
potentially even somewhat uninteresting, depending on who's playing.

SE.

[William Sommerwerck]

"Steve Emerson" wrote in message
news:emersn-B671CC....@c-61-68-245-199.per.connect.net.au...

Thanks for the thoughtful and useful reply.

[Al Eisner]

On Fri, 4 Jan 2013, Steve Emerson wrote:

> If LeSage's Schumann is going to be available at low price, I would jump
> on it, regardless of the fact it includes chamber works of whatever
> level of interest. Neither Demus nor Engel, both of whom are respectable
> musicians, is anything like the pianist LeSage is.

"Is", not "is to be". It was released over a month ago -- see for example
http://www.mdt.co.uk/schumann-schumann-project-complete-piano-eric-le-sage-alpha-13cds.html ,
but even cheaper (considering shipping to the U.S.) from Amazon marketplace.

This release was the subject of a thread here last Fall.
--

Al Eisner

[Oscar]

On Tuesday, December 25, 2012, td wrote:
>
> > PS: If anyone has CD volume 2 of Schumann's piano works played by Karl Engel,
> > I'd like to purchase it.
>
> For Heaven's sake why?

Complete Engel Schumann ssued in Japan on May 17 as 13XRCD boxed set for ¥40,950, or $415, or £271, or €313 http://tinyurl.com/n5yl5xh

(Free shipping within Japan.)

[William Sommerwerck]

"Oscar" wrote in message
news:d27c282f-ea9b-44d9...@googlegroups.com...

Thanks for the info. I admit to being crazy -- but not insane.