Abbado: two unpublished Beethoven's Ninth - Rome 2001, Lucerne 2007
L'Esattore
I'm italian and this is the first time that I write here.
Claudio Abbado recorded several times Beethoven's Ninth Symphony, but also
several (possibly greater) executions weren't published or recorded.
Now I offer to you two of these. As you maybe know, the famous 2001 Rome
cycle was published in Dvd and in Cd by EuroArts and DG (2008), but in both
publications we have only the first eight symphonies actually from Rome,
and the ninth is an older recoring (in Dvd cycle we have a Berlin live
recording (2000), and in DG cycle we have the old cycle ninth, a little bit
remastered, I think).
Well, the Rome 2001 Ninth was actually recorded and transmitted by Italian
State Radio and I offer to you that unpublished and storical transmission.
It's not enough. Abbado gave recently another reading of the Ninth, in
Lucerne, on August 10&11, 2007. These interpretations are also unpublished:
I've found the August 10 recording, a not slightly different reading, 7
minutes longer than Rome version, maybe nearer to Wien cycle than Berlin
cycle, but surely reflecting the "new Abbado".
So, that's it:
Roma, Accademia di Santa Cecilia, February 15, 2001:
Berliner Philharmoniker
Coro dell'Accademia di Santa Cecilia (Tonu Kaljuste)
Claudio Abbado, conductor
Ljuba Organosova, soprano
Larissa Diadkova, mezzosoprano
Rainer Trost, tenore
Bryn Terfel, basso
http://www.gigasize.com/get.php/3197690828/AB9R2001.rar
it's a live radio recording, good quality (FLAC files)
__
Luzern, Der grosse Konzertsaal, August 10, 2007:
Lucerne Festival Orchestra
Chor des Bayerischen Rundfunks München
Claudio Abbado, conductor
Melanie Diener, soprano
Anna Larsson, mezzosoprano
Jonas Kaufmann, tenore
Reinhard Hagen, basso
http://rapidshare.com/files/164709428/AB9L2007.rar
I haven't more informations about this recording, I've just found it on the
web. The quality is very very good (OGG VORBIS hi-quality files).
___
I hope you'll enjoy these recording, I would like to read your opinions.
My only disappointment is that I haven't the Wien 2001 Ninth (that caused a
30minutes standing ovation, with an extasiated Pierre Boulez in first rows,
maybe even greater than the Rome interpretation, I don't know if there is a
recording of this one) and also that I haven't the Lucerne August 11
recording, nearer to Rome version. I red that it was scheduled by Arte
television, but I've never found it.
Yes, you can't have everything in your life, but... you know... you can at
least search for it :)
Thanks for reading.
--
L'Esattore
http://tinyurl.com/2brkxr
http://tinyurl.com/2z3wsx
RiRiIII
Many thanks for these!
I was in the Musikverein for the 2001 concert with Abbado and
Beethoven's 9th. The reason for flying to Vienna back then was the
Boulez Mahler III that was played the following day. This latter had
been broadcast live from Austrian Radio and recordings circulate. A
supreme experience and tremendous ovations for Boulez.
Regarding the 9th I was overall dissapointed. The ovations were huge
but I think due to the recent recovery Abbado had then from his
treatment. It was not broadcast for sure. Most probably the Abbadiani
that twere present might have had record it... In my opinion, since
2004 Abbado is in top form and is at the peak of his creative powers.
All the best and please keep on uploading such concerts.
Best
Alex
Athens
L'Esattore
> Many thanks for these!
:)
> I was in the Musikverein for the 2001 concert with Abbado and
> Beethoven's 9th. The reason for flying to Vienna back then was the
> Boulez Mahler III that was played the following day. This latter had
> been broadcast live from Austrian Radio and recordings circulate. A
> supreme experience and tremendous ovations for Boulez.
I'm going to give all my attentions to Mahler III.
I'm a great fan of Mahler I, IV, V, IX.
In your opinion that Boulez's reading of Mahler III was better than
Abbado's reading in Lucerne?
> Regarding the 9th I was overall dissapointed. The ovations were huge
> but I think due to the recent recovery Abbado had then from his
> treatment. It was not broadcast for sure. Most probably the Abbadiani
> that twere present might have had record it... In my opinion, since
> 2004 Abbado is in top form and is at the peak of his creative powers.
I'm going to ask'em for Wien recording.
> All the best and please keep on uploading such concerts.
I hope to find such concerts :)
Michael Schaffer
> Hello all,
> I'm italian and this is the first time that I write here.
> Claudio Abbado recorded several times Beethoven's Ninth Symphony, but also
> several (possibly greater) executions weren't published or recorded.
> Now I offer to you two of these. As you maybe know, the famous 2001 Rome
> cycle was published in Dvd and in Cd by EuroArts and DG (2008), but in both
> publications we have only the first eight symphonies actually from Rome,
> and the ninth is an older recoring (in Dvd cycle we have a Berlin live
> recording (2000), and in DG cycle we have the old cycle ninth, a little bit
> remastered, I think).
The track info on the DG website confirms what you are saying. The
first BP cycle on DG, produced in 1999-2000, featured studio
recordings of 1-8 and a live recording of the 9th from 2000 which may
actually be the same as on the DVD published by EuroArts. And it looks
like that same recording is again in the recently released Rome cycle.
I wonder why, when an actual recording from that same cycle apparently
exists?
L'Esattore
> The track info on the DG website confirms what you are saying.
> The first BP cycle on DG, produced in 1999-2000, featured studio
> recordings of 1-8 and a live recording of the 9th from 2000 which may
> actually be the same as on the DVD published by EuroArts.
That is not right.
We have 3 Abbado-Beethoven cycle.
One with Wiener Philharmoniker, in 80's.
One with Berliner Philharmoniker, recorded and released in 1999-2000, with
9 studio recordings (with some people to recreate the live atmosphere,
however).
And now we have another cycle, released in 2008 with:
1-8 symphonies from the Rome 2001 cycle, live recordings.
the 9th symphony is the same of the 2000 cycle, only a little bit
remastered and maybe with some corrections (it's written in the booklet,
but I don't understand were these corrections are).
Also we have a DVD Euroarts cycle with Symphonies 1-8 live recorded in Rome
(exactly the same, to me even in the mastering) of DG2008 cycle, and the
9th symphony in a different performance from Berlin, recorded in 2000, that
is not the same found in the 2000 and 2008 cycles.
> And it looks
> like that same recording is again in the recently released Rome cycle.
> I wonder why, when an actual recording from that same cycle apparently
> exists?
well, the Rome ninth wasn't actually video-recorded due to some contract
problems between Italian state television (with Euroarts) and Berliner
Philharmoniker. In that evening there where not cameras. We have a radio
recording because it was radio-broadcasted from italian state radio (which
is the same Italian state television...). But I think that the problem was
that there were also the Chor and the soloist, and maybe Berliner
Philharmoniker had some clause to record with them.
Someone also said that Euroarts-Italian television didn't want to pay other
money to the chor and the soloist... could be true, with our television.
But I don't actually know what's the truth.
Michael Schaffer
> *Michael Schaffer* ha scritto:
>
> > The track info on the DG website confirms what you are saying.
> > The first BP cycle on DG, produced in 1999-2000, featured studio
> > recordings of 1-8 and a live recording of the 9th from 2000 which may
> > actually be the same as on the DVD published by EuroArts.
>
> That is not right.
> We have 3 Abbado-Beethoven cycle.
> One with Wiener Philharmoniker, in 80's.
I know. I have that box. That's why I said "the first *BP* cycle".
*BP* here stands for "Berliner Philharmoniker".
> One with Berliner Philharmoniker, recorded and released in 1999-2000, with
> 9 studio recordings (with some people to recreate the live atmosphere,
> however).
The DG website says that that 9th was recorded live (although that
doesn't necessarily mean that information is correct). I have never
heard of a studio recording "with some people to recreate the live
athmosphere", except for many of the Karajan films which were indeed
filmed "in studio" in the Philharmonie, with extras in the background
where they could be seen behind Karajan, but more for "visual" than
"athmospheric" reasons. Do you have more background information about
the Abbado studio recording sessions?
> And now we have another cycle, released in 2008 with:
> 1-8 symphonies from the Rome 2001 cycle, live recordings.
> the 9th symphony is the same of the 2000 cycle, only a little bit
> remastered and maybe with some corrections (it's written in the booklet,
> but I don't understand were these corrections are).
>
> Also we have a DVD Euroarts cycle with Symphonies 1-8 live recorded in Rome
> (exactly the same, to me even in the mastering) of DG2008 cycle, and the
> 9th symphony in a different performance from Berlin, recorded in 2000, that
> is not the same found in the 2000 and 2008 cycles.
>
> > And it looks
> > like that same recording is again in the recently released Rome cycle.
> > I wonder why, when an actual recording from that same cycle apparently
> > exists?
>
> well, the Rome ninth wasn't actually video-recorded due to some contract
> problems between Italian state television (with Euroarts) and Berliner
> Philharmoniker. In that evening there where not cameras. We have a radio
> recording because it was radio-broadcasted from italian state radio (which
> is the same Italian state television...). But I think that the problem was
> that there were also the Chor and the soloist, and maybe Berliner
> Philharmoniker had some clause to record with them.
> Someone also said that Euroarts-Italian television didn't want to pay other
> money to the chor and the soloist... could be true, with our television.
> But I don't actually know what's the truth.
>
> --
Just a wild guess: they actually made a live recording of the 9th for
Sony in 1995 or so. *Maybe* that has something to do with that. Or
maybe not.
> L'Esattorehttp://tinyurl.com/2brkxrhttp://tinyurl.com/2z3wsx
Steve de Mena
> On Nov 18, 6:34 pm, L'Esattore <vdeiul...@NOSPAMsupereva.it> wrote:
>> *Michael Schaffer* ha scritto:
>>
>>> The track info on the DG website confirms what you are saying.
>>> The first BP cycle on DG, produced in 1999-2000, featured studio
>>> recordings of 1-8 and a live recording of the 9th from 2000 which may
>>> actually be the same as on the DVD published by EuroArts.
>> That is not right.
>> We have 3 Abbado-Beethoven cycle.
>> One with Wiener Philharmoniker, in 80's.
>
> I know. I have that box. That's why I said "the first *BP* cycle".
> *BP* here stands for "Berliner Philharmoniker".
>
>> One with Berliner Philharmoniker, recorded and released in 1999-2000, with
>> 9 studio recordings (with some people to recreate the live atmosphere,
>> however).
>
> The DG website says that that 9th was recorded live (although that
> doesn't necessarily mean that information is correct). I have never
> heard of a studio recording "with some people to recreate the live
> athmosphere", except for many of the Karajan films which were indeed
> filmed "in studio" in the Philharmonie, with extras in the background
> where they could be seen behind Karajan, but more for "visual" than
> "athmospheric" reasons. Do you have more background information about
> the Abbado studio recording sessions?
The booklet for the new Abbado release says that the 9th "was recorded
... at a concert in Berlin in May 2000". The credits say that is was
recorded in the Berlin Philharmonie "April-May 2000".
Steve
L'Esattore
> I haven't the Lucerne August 11
found :)
http://rapidshare.com/files/103488819/CONCERT_ARCHIVE_618.rar
L'Esattore
> found :)
> http://rapidshare.com/files/103488819/CONCERT_ARCHIVE_618.rar
-.-
unfortunally that seems to be the same than the previously posted.
In worse quality.
Michael Schaffer
Yes. The gentleman who does the "Concert Archive" uploads often
reposts what other people have already uploaded to Operashare, but he
usually downsamples the bitrate. What the point of that is is beyond
my humble powers of comprehension. So, as a rule, if you see something
in a "Concert Archive" that you want to have, do a search and check if
someone else hasn't uploaded before, in a higher bitrate.
Michael Schaffer
So what auditorium did those concerts take place in? I was at the
Accademia Nazionale di Santa Cecilia in 2003 and went to a concert in
the new large concert hall but I understand that only opened a year
after these Abbado concerts, and the hall in the video looks a little
different, IIRC. Or is it the same?
Steve de Mena
> So what auditorium did those concerts take place in? I was at the
> Accademia Nazionale di Santa Cecilia in 2003 and went to a concert in
> the new large concert hall but I understand that only opened a year
> after these Abbado concerts, and the hall in the video looks a little
> different, IIRC. Or is it the same?
I can speak about the new DG set - Those recordings are from the
Accademia Nazionale di Santa Cecilia , February 2001.
In the CD booklet Abbado says "The quality of the recording, possibly
because of the acoustic's in Renzo Piano's new hall, is particularly
fine."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parco_della_Musica
http://www.auditorium.com/
http://www.bluffton.edu/~sullivanm/italy/rome/piano/piano.html
Steve
Michael Schaffer
That is the hall I went to in 2003 - but the articles say it opened in
2002, a year after the Abbado concerts. I don't have the DVDs nearby,
so I can't check for myself. But the whole stage area looked different
to me from what I remember and what I see in pictures (specifically,
no seats behind the stage in the videos). But it's been a while since
I last watched them, so I may be wrong.
Gerard
>
> I can speak about the new DG set - Those recordings are from the
> Accademia Nazionale di Santa Cecilia , February 2001.
>
> In the CD booklet Abbado says "The quality of the recording, possibly
> because of the acoustic's in Renzo Piano's new hall, is particularly
> fine."
>
I have this set on CD. I've not noticed anything particularly fine soundwise.
The recordings are not bad, but particularly fine acoustics are not captured.
OTOH the performances are very fine.
Steve de Mena
Very good question Michael. I saw a brief video on Youtube of the
opening of the Beethoven 5th from Rome and it did not look like any of
the three new halls at Parco della Musica. The Abbado comments on
the acoustics of "Renco Piano's new hall" do not make sense.
Steve
Michael Schaffer
> Michael Schaffer wrote:
> > On Nov 22, 6:14 am, Steve de Mena <st...@stevedemena.com> wrote:
> >> Michael Schaffer wrote:
> >>> So what auditorium did those concerts take place in? I was at the
> >>> Accademia Nazionale di Santa Cecilia in 2003 and went to a concert in
> >>> the new large concert hall but I understand that only opened a year
> >>> after these Abbado concerts, and the hall in the video looks a little
> >>> different, IIRC. Or is it the same?
> >> I can speak about the new DG set - Those recordings are from the
> >> Accademia Nazionale di Santa Cecilia , February 2001.
>
> >> In the CD booklet Abbado says "The quality of the recording, possibly
> >> because of the acoustic's in Renzo Piano's new hall, is particularly
> >> fine."
>
>
> >> Steve
>
> > That is the hall I went to in 2003 - but the articles say it opened in
> > 2002, a year after the Abbado concerts. I don't have the DVDs nearby,
> > so I can't check for myself. But the whole stage area looked different
> > to me from what I remember and what I see in pictures (specifically,
> > no seats behind the stage in the videos). But it's been a while since
> > I last watched them, so I may be wrong.
>
> Very good question Michael. I saw a brief video on Youtube of the
> opening of the Beethoven 5th from Rome and it did not look like any of
> the three new halls at Parco della Musica. The Abbado comments on
> the acoustics of "Renco Piano's new hall" do not make sense.
>
> Steve
When I saw the Santa Cecilia orchestra there in the large hall of the
Parco della Musica with Gary Bertini conducting the Firebird Suite and
Brahms 4 (in 2003), I wasn't too impressed by the acoustics. They were
OK, but not particularly good. Actually a little on the muffled side.
A friend who had been going there since the opening told me that they
had messed around a lot with acoustical panels under the ceiling
because they were unhappy with the sound.
one...@gmail.com
masa.jl407
I really miss Abbado's Beethoven.