Goodbye and Good Luck!
Diafani
reluctantly unsuscribing. While there are often worthwhile postings,
and sometimes even worthwhile responses, I find that the general level
of discourse in even the most promising posts rapidly descends into
petty argument and downright stupidity, not to mention vulgarity. I
find it mind-boggling that a group of adults (I use the word loosely,
evidently) can let such a forum degenerate into chaos and juvenile
name-calling. I know, I know, it's unmoderated... Still, to me the
positive aspects of this group are sadly outweighed by the negatives.
It's just bad for the soul. Goodbye and Good Luck!
Matthew�B.�Tepper
be typed in news:b679dc03-4e75-44d9-acea-d5c1cea476e8
@m16g2000yqc.googlegroups.com:
A good killfile gets rid of 95% of the crap, and is easily and quickly
adjustable as new crap emerges. You could, for example, use a real
newsreading program; my Windows recommendation is Xnews, but there must be
plenty of similar ones for Macintosh. Or if you absolutely insist on using
Google Groups, continue browsing with Firefox, get the Greasemonkey add-in
and activate the Killfile script.
If you have done absolutely nothing whatsoever to try to suppress it from
sight by the above or similar means, and if you still insist on complaining
about the newsgroup, then I'm afraid that part of the blame must be yours,
and you have just unfairly maligned the rest of us.
--
Matthew B. Tepper: WWW, science fiction, classical music, ducks!
Read about "Proty" here: http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/proty.html
To write to me, do for my address what Androcles did for the lion
Opinions expressed here are not necessarily those of my employers
Diafani
> If you have done absolutely nothing whatsoever to try to suppress it from
> sight by the above or similar means, and if you still insist on complaining
> about the newsgroup, then I'm afraid that part of the blame must be yours,
> and you have just unfairly maligned the rest of us.
>
> --
> Matthew B. Tepper: WWW, science fiction, classical music, ducks!
> Read about "Proty" here:http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/proty.html
> To write to me, do for my address what Androcles did for the lion
> Opinions expressed here are not necessarily those of my employers
Sorry, I'm not used to newsgroups, so I apologize for not taking
elementary precautions.
I guess it's a bit like showing up at an orgy without a supply of
condoms...
J
>
> Sorry, I'm not used to newsgroups, so I apologize for not taking
> elementary precautions.
> I guess it's a bit like showing up at an orgy without a supply of
> condoms...
Well, not exactly. It's not unreasonable for you to expect discussion
on a discussion board...
Mr. Mike
<oy�@earthlink.net> wrote:
>If you have done absolutely nothing whatsoever to try to suppress it from
>sight by the above or similar means, and if you still insist on complaining
>about the newsgroup, then I'm afraid that part of the blame must be yours,
>and you have just unfairly maligned the rest of us.
This is like saying "You live in a shitty neighborhood, but rather
than move out, you should put bars on your windows, install an alarm
and buy a pit bull. Then you will be able to tolerate living here."
Why does the neighborhood have to be shitty in the first place?
GMS
> On Tue, 17 Nov 2009 15:01:26 -0600, "Matthew B. Tepper"
>
I agree with Mr. Mike on his very fine point.
Gary Stucka
Kip Williams
Damn near every neighborhood is shitty in that respect, being vulnerable
to crime.
I couldn't possibly afford the rent in a "non-shitty" neighborhood, and
the people there don't care about my music.
Kip W
Frank Berger
> On Nov 17, 10:05 pm, Mr. Mike <m...@spamcop.net> wrote:
>> On Tue, 17 Nov 2009 15:01:26 -0600, "Matthew B. Tepper"
>>
>>> If you have done absolutely nothing whatsoever to try to suppress
>>> it from sight by the above or similar means, and if you still
>>> insist on complaining about the newsgroup, then I'm afraid that
>>> part of the blame must be yours, and you have just unfairly
>>> maligned the rest of us.
>>
>> This is like saying "You live in a shitty neighborhood, but rather
>> than move out, you should put bars on your windows, install an alarm
>> and buy a pit bull. Then you will be able to tolerate living here."
>>
>> Why does the neighborhood have to be shitty in the first place?
>
> I agree with Mr. Mike on his very fine point.
>
> Gary Stucka
What point? He asked a question that has no conceivable answer and is
besides the point of what to do if you *do* live in a shitty neigborhood.
Frank Berger
> On Tue, 17 Nov 2009 15:01:26 -0600, "Matthew B. Tepper"
> <oy�@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>> If you have done absolutely nothing whatsoever to try to suppress it
>> from sight by the above or similar means, and if you still insist on
>> complaining about the newsgroup, then I'm afraid that part of the
>> blame must be yours, and you have just unfairly maligned the rest of
>> us.
>
> This is like saying "You live in a shitty neighborhood, but rather
> than move out, you should put bars on your windows, install an alarm
> and buy a pit bull. Then you will be able to tolerate living here."
>
Exactly
> Why does the neighborhood have to be shitty in the first place?
I don't know. Do you?
mandryka
I kind of enjoy. There is something very special about eruduite
discussions of Haydn symphonies, say, surrounded by posts about gay
lovers in the Isle of Mann and scatology. I appreciate the experience.
And the SPAM seems to get cleared up pretty quickly. Someone is doing
a real service there!
The quality of discussions seems high. More lively than any other
Classical Recordings group I know, and actually more reliable. There
are some really knowledgeable and helpful people who post here. And
yes, there is some acrimony and bickering. But not so much really,
given that there are people here who have known each other for years.
Juan Rey
> On Tue, 17 Nov 2009 15:01:26 -0600, "Matthew B. Tepper"
>
Sometimes you have a nice neighborhood and an asshole moves in and
then his asshole friends come around at the weekend...just ask the
residents of Epica Court, San Diego.
Anti-Troll-01
> On Tue, 17 Nov 2009 15:01:26 -0600, "Matthew B. Tepper"
>
If you define the "neighborhood" as lovers of classical music, then it
is NOT a "shitty neighborhood." The "shitty" part is the drive-
through "trash dumpers."
What you need to do is to convert your neighborhood into a GATED
COMMUNITY, with a tough guard at the gate. (Or with *every* citizen
being an ARMED "neighborhood watch" member.) Unfortunately, the RMCR
residents do not seem ready for that.
Why aren't they ready? Because some of the leading "civic figures"
are BLIND!
Why are they blind? Because they think that by putting on blinders
(i.e. "killfiles") they have a "nice neighborhood." They don't see
the devastation around them and believe that they are living in the
Garden of Eden.
This group NEEDS a MODERATOR (or two, or three, or more)!!!
That way RMCR can prevent the kind of troll interference that has been
prevalent of late.
The leading type of troll in this group knows nothing about classical
music, and comes here for a modest building of his meager ego.
Another type of troll spends a major portion of his time on "ethnic"
gratification posts.
A moderator could quash the first type completely, and bounce the
second type back for an injection of relevance.
Actually, this newsgroup should become a "mutual" moderation society,
with each member having
1. an actual identity, i.e. NO pseudonyms, and
2. ability to completely DELETE a truly offensive post,
with their identity as deleter being public.
Members whose real identity is known should be mature enough to
abstain from crude defamation, but the second privilege provides an
extra level of protection.
Once this newsgroup does not have to worry about the "contributions"
of trolls using anonymizing remailers, it should become a delightful
place to exchange news and views about classical music and its
recordings.
- Anti-Troll-01
herman
>
> A moderator could quash the first type completely, and bounce the
> second type back for an injection of relevance.
>
> Actually, this newsgroup should become a "mutual" moderation society,
> with each member having
>
> 1. an actual identity, i.e. NO pseudonyms, and
>
> 2. ability to completely DELETE a truly offensive post,
> with their identity as deleter being public.
>
When Kirk McSomething started Classical Recordings, recently, there
were a lot of people who refused to even consider a move, because of a
semi-ideological eversion to moderation.
Your option two is hilarious. Surely our industry giant would commence
wiping out the every single post that didn't pay homage to him and his
enormous talents.
RMCR has been horribly spammed lately, and it was a huge
disappointment that our mouthpiece genius chose to come back and share
some more with us. It's a horrible sight, all those anal fixated
titles etc, and it's a guarantee few newbies will join. On the other
hand, sometimes I feel like Howie does. It has a sort of satirical
quality, to find erudite threads among the piles of filth.
Ward Hardman keeps a little bag of ripe turds in his car to sniff at the lights.
> Actually, this newsgroup should become a "mutual" moderation society,
> with each member having
>
> 1. an actual identity, i.e. NO pseudonyms, and
> - Anti-Troll-01
o the irony
Allen
of which hasn't been deluged by idiots and soreheads. I subscribed to a
Win 7 newsgroups 5 days ago; it was refreshingly unpoisoned. But the
clowns have already started showing up. I think one of the reasons is
that most of the providers have dropped newsgroup support, which has
removed some of the good posters and left a disproportionate number of
people who are willing to pay a little or at least go outside normal
channels just so they can prove how smart or clever they are; but they
don't seem to realize they are proving just the opposite. If you think
RMCR is bad, subscribe to any ng concerned with digital photography or
Windows Vista. My killfiles for those groups are huge, and some days
only 20 or 30 percent of the posts get through.
Allen
O
<all...@austin.rr.com> wrote:
> >
> > RMCR has been horribly spammed lately, and it was a huge
> > disappointment that our mouthpiece genius chose to come back and share
> > some more with us. It's a horrible sight, all those anal fixated
> > titles etc, and it's a guarantee few newbies will join. On the other
> > hand, sometimes I feel like Howie does. It has a sort of satirical
> > quality, to find erudite threads among the piles of filth.
> Unfortunately, it's not just RMCR. I subscribe to several ngs, only one
> of which hasn't been deluged by idiots and soreheads.
I think people fail to realize (or forget to realize) that Usenet is
the only example of a working anarchy.
-Owen
Juan Rey
I ought to know better than to feed a sock-puppet of the troll Ward
Hardman, but here goes.
Moderation does not come without a cost. We see the problem in the
idiotic and hypocritical behavior of Hardman, who claims to 'censor'
'off-topic' threads but just as often participates in them or starts
them, until someone says something he doesn't like, and then he puts
on his 'censor' hat and tries to obscure them. He also 'censors' on-
topic threads he doesn't like or doesn't understand. Plus his constant
feeding of trolls is the root cause of 99% of this trouble. Look at
all the 'trolling' - how much of it refers directly to the idiot
Hardman? Practically all of it, yet he keeps responding to it, baiting
the trolls, cross-posting to lure them in, even posting directly to
troll groups to try to bring them over. What's the point of that?
Trying to whip up trouble to justify his obsessive behavior? Hardman,
get a life, but if you can't then go f**k yourself.
J.Martin
>
> I don't know. Do you?
Well, besides the obvious answer (ie that human nature is flawed) I
would say the biggest factor contributing to the shittiness of this
neighborhood is that people here can't help themselves from responding
to trolls.
For whatever reason, this is a place where people who have nothing
better to do than to post blatantly off topic political observations,
personal insults, questions about pop culture, or anything else that
pops into their demented heads, can *always* expect a response.
Which, of course, is what they live for.
It's been said many times that if the group simply ignored them, they
would find somewhere else to post their nonsense. But as a group we
have proven to be incapable of this. So on (and on) it goes...
JM
Charles Milton Ling
I understand you.
Good luck to you, too.
And greetings to all,
Charley (who will persevere)
--
Charles Milton Ling
Vienna, Austria
Frank Berger
Of my question was addressed to Mr. Mike, who has not responded.
Nevertheless,
You can't change human nature. Why try?
If one doesn't like the neighborhood, one can
1. Leave.
2. Minimize the shittiness by screening/filtering messages. Many have
testified this is effective.
3. Frequent a moderated group instead.
4. Complain about human nature.
It strikes me that #4 is not productive and, as such, not all that different
from spamming/trolling Note I am talking about an electronic neighborood,
not a real one, which might very well be improvable. In the real world,
people's natural inclinations are affected by real-world incentives and
contraints. An asshole might get punched in the nose, for example. In the
ether, these constraints on behavor don't exist.
Simon Roberts
Anti-Troll-01 says...
>What you need to do is to convert your neighborhood into a GATED
>COMMUNITY, with a tough guard at the gate. (Or with *every* citizen
>being an ARMED "neighborhood watch" member.) Unfortunately, the RMCR
>residents do not seem ready for that.
There's no need to make rmcr gated. Someone created a moderated group several
months ago; those who prefer gated communities can go there instead.
Simon
Johannes Carter
being insane, impotent and syphilitic.
Kevin N
> Mr. Mike wrote:
> > On Tue, 17 Nov 2009 15:01:26 -0600, "Matthew B. Tepper"
Sure you can. I know for FACT that in Rochester that you can find an
affordable place to rent in a "non-shitty" neighborhood, even with a
Burger King employee's salary.
Kevin N
You have my sympathies. The amount of sheer assholery displayed on
this group is incredible. I have found there is little value in
actively participating in the discussions; however as a resource to
search out recommended recordings of various works via Google, it is
extremely invaluable.
O
<c9f3d91c-1254-4311...@m35g2000vbi.googlegroups.com>,
Kevin N <boss...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> You have my sympathies. The amount of sheer assholery displayed on
> this group is incredible. I have found there is little value in
> actively participating in the discussions; however as a resource to
> search out recommended recordings of various works via Google, it is
> extremely invaluable.
But apparently you do find some merit in joining the fray to bitch
about the group.
-Owen, didn't your Mom use to say, if you didn't have anything good to
say in a newsgroup, don't say anything?
Gerard
>
> -Owen, didn't your Mom use to say, if you didn't have anything good to
> say in a newsgroup, don't say anything?
No, that's what Ansimaniac's mother said to his brother. At least *he* listend
to her.
O
Gerard <ghen_nospam_driksen�@hotmail.com> wrote:
I thought he argued with his wife, until the audio separated from the
video.
-Owen
Gerard
Who? His brother?
Or do you mean that Ansimaniac argued with his brother's wife?
Kip Williams
> On Nov 17, 11:47 pm, Kip Williams<k...@rochester.rr.com> wrote:
>> Mr. Mike wrote:
>>> On Tue, 17 Nov 2009 15:01:26 -0600, "Matthew B. Tepper"
>>> <oy�@earthlink.net> wrote:
>>
>>>> If you have done absolutely nothing whatsoever to try to suppress it from
>>>> sight by the above or similar means, and if you still insist on complaining
>>>> about the newsgroup, then I'm afraid that part of the blame must be yours,
>>>> and you have just unfairly maligned the rest of us.
>>
>>> This is like saying "You live in a shitty neighborhood, but rather
>>> than move out, you should put bars on your windows, install an alarm
>>> and buy a pit bull. Then you will be able to tolerate living here."
>>
>>> Why does the neighborhood have to be shitty in the first place?
>>
>> Damn near every neighborhood is shitty in that respect, being vulnerable
>> to crime.
>>
>> I couldn't possibly afford the rent in a "non-shitty" neighborhood, and
>> the people there don't care about my music.
>
> affordable place to rent in a "non-shitty" neighborhood, even with a
> Burger King employee's salary.
You'll note that I specified "vulnerable to crime" above.
Kip W
Kevin N
> Kevin N wrote:
> > On Nov 17, 11:47 pm, Kip Williams<k...@rochester.rr.com> wrote:
> >> Mr. Mike wrote:
> >>> On Tue, 17 Nov 2009 15:01:26 -0600, "Matthew B. Tepper"
>
> >>>> If you have done absolutely nothing whatsoever to try to suppress it from
> >>>> sight by the above or similar means, and if you still insist on complaining
> >>>> about the newsgroup, then I'm afraid that part of the blame must be yours,
> >>>> and you have just unfairly maligned the rest of us.
>
> >>> This is like saying "You live in a shitty neighborhood, but rather
> >>> than move out, you should put bars on your windows, install an alarm
> >>> and buy a pit bull. Then you will be able to tolerate living here."
>
> >>> Why does the neighborhood have to be shitty in the first place?
>
> >> Damn near every neighborhood is shitty in that respect, being vulnerable
> >> to crime.
>
> >> I couldn't possibly afford the rent in a "non-shitty" neighborhood, and
> >> the people there don't care about my music.
>
> > Sure you can. I know for FACT that in Rochester that you can find an
> > affordable place to rent in a "non-shitty" neighborhood, even with a
> > Burger King employee's salary.
>
> You'll note that I specified "vulnerable to crime" above.
>
> Kip W
Every neighborhood on the planet is "vulnerable to crime" in some
degree. The practical consideration is that if you live in such-and-
such a neighborhood for some fixed time period, say five years, is it
highly likely or highly un-likely that you will be the victim of
crime. My point is that in places like Rochester (indeed most of
upstate New York), one can find a neighborhood to live where the crime
rate is very low where the cost of living is quite modest.
Moreover, I find the analogy of a moderated forum, such as Kirk's to a
"gated community" completely without basis. People are free to come
and go as they please; it's only when they become disruptive assholes
that they are kicked out. The only advantage RMCR has to that group is
depth (going back at least 10 years vs 10 months), and breadth (1000s
of participants vs 100s).
Bob Lombard
>
> Moreover, I find the analogy of a moderated forum, such as Kirk's to a
> "gated community" completely without basis. People are free to come
> and go as they please; it's only when they become disruptive assholes
> that they are kicked out. The only advantage RMCR has to that group is
> depth (going back at least 10 years vs 10 months), and breadth (1000s
> of participants vs 100s).
It's the restriction against being a 'disruptive asshole' that keeps
me out. I need that freedom.
bl
Rugby
> It's the restriction against being a 'disruptive asshole' that keeps
> me out. I need that freedom.
>
I dont recall anyone thinking you are disruptive.
Rugby
Gerard
>
> that they are kicked out. The only advantage RMCR has to that group is
> depth (going back at least 10 years vs 10 months), and breadth (1000s
> of participants vs 100s).
RMCR does not have 1000s of participants.
Did you count everyone who has posted once (or more) since the beginning of
RMCR?
Bob Lombard
Hah, Once in a while, depending on the reader. Anyway, it's the
*freedom* that matters.
bl
Bob Lombard
If readers/lurkers are considered participants (I do so consider them)
there may be thousands.
bl
Gerard
Imo readers/lurkers are no participants at all. They simply don't participate.
But why do you think that there are thousands of readers?
Bill Anderson
all actively participate.
Gerard
> According to google statistics, there are 2551 subscribers,
Where did you find this?
Google Groups?
Readers who use usenet are not included of course.
> though not
> all actively participate.
That obvious. No more than 51 - 101 participate.
(or is having participated once 2 years ago also "participate"?)
Phil Caron
"Gerard" <ghen_nospam_driksen�@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:72bf2$4b06f69c$5ed13b3d$16...@cache2.tilbu1.nb.home.nl...
Why not? They're curious enough to read, they are judging, they may contact
posters outside the forum. They may post here later, or have done so before
newbies like you came around. Post is not synonymous with participate.
Moreover, many people write things here without regard for who may be
reading. Anything their imagination can conjure up will come out their
fingers and into the ears of young readers here, interested in classical
music. Those people are cowards.
> But why do you think that there are thousands of readers?
He didn't say that.
- Phil Caron
Bill Anderson
> Where did you find this?
> Google Groups?
yes - try this link
http://groups.google.com/groups/dir?hl=en&sel=usenet%3Drec.music.classical
the RMCR is the first group listed
- Bill
Gerard
> "Gerard" <ghen_nospam_driksen�@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:72bf2$4b06f69c$5ed13b3d$16...@cache2.tilbu1.nb.home.nl...
> > Bob Lombard wrote:
> > > Gerard wrote:
> > > > Kevin N wrote:
> > > > > that they are kicked out. The only advantage RMCR has to that
> > > > > group is depth (going back at least 10 years vs 10 months),
> > > > > and breadth (1000s of participants vs 100s).
> > > >
> > > > RMCR does not have 1000s of participants.
> > > > Did you count everyone who has posted once (or more) since the
> > > > beginning of RMCR?
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > If readers/lurkers are considered participants (I do so consider
> > > them) there may be thousands.
> > >
> > > bl
> >
> > Imo readers/lurkers are no participants at all. They simply don't
> > participate.
>
> Why not? They're curious enough to read, they are judging, they may
> contact posters outside the forum. They may post here later, or have
> done so before newbies like you came around. Post is not synonymous
> with participate.
But reading only surely is not participating.
>
> Moreover, many people write things here without regard for who may be
> reading.
Of you mean "who may be reading only": of course. A newsgroup primarily is a
kind of discussion group. Why should discussing with other participants be done
to keep regard for readers-only?
>
> Anything their imagination can conjure up will come out
> their fingers and into the ears of young readers here, interested in
> classical music. Those people are cowards.
>
> > But why do you think that there are thousands of readers?
>
> He didn't say that.
>
> - Phil Caron
That's right; he said "there may be thousands".
Taree Dawg
Not only that, but someone else's view of 'disruptive' may be different
to one's own, and why should one or two people decide anyway? One is a
proven (to me at least) asshole, so what the heck.
Ray Hall, Taree
Taree Dawg
>
> Of you mean "who may be reading only": of course. A newsgroup primarily is a
> kind of discussion group. Why should discussing with other participants be done
> to keep regard for readers-only?
Precisely.
Ray Hall, Taree
Norman Schwartz
"Bill Anderson" <willem....@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:c10ce1fa-865c-4553...@j19g2000yqk.googlegroups.com...
> According to google statistics, there are 2551 subscribers, though not
> all actively participate.
Like a magazine, etc. one can be "subscribed" to a newsgroup and not ever
read it. Don't ask me what purpose would be served. In my newsreader there's
even a button that asks me if I want to "subscribe" to alt.test
O
<nm...@optonline.net> wrote:
Actually, their is no universal "subscription" to a usenet group. When
you "subscribe" you merely tell your newsreader that you want to read
the group, but only the newsreader knows you subscribed. For instance,
Supernews may know who's reading RMCR from its servers, but would have
no clue as to who is reading it from Google groups, and vice versa.
I think if Google says that there are ~2000 "subscribers," that only
accounts for those who read it from Google.
-Owen
Gerard
> In article <4b072884$0$4974$607e...@cv.net>, Norman Schwartz
> <nm...@optonline.net> wrote:
>
> > "Bill Anderson" <willem....@comcast.net> wrote in message
> > news:c10ce1fa-865c-4553...@j19g2000yqk.googlegroups.com...
> > > According to google statistics, there are 2551 subscribers,
> > > though not all actively participate.
> >
> > Like a magazine, etc. one can be "subscribed" to a newsgroup and
> > not ever read it. Don't ask me what purpose would be served. In my
> > newsreader there's even a button that asks me if I want to
> > "subscribe" to alt.test
> >
> >
> Actually, their is no universal "subscription" to a usenet group.
In this case the "subscription" only is a Google thing.
I never did so. But I suppose that a lot of participants who use newsreader
programs and usenet at home have such a Google subscription (to be able to
participate at work and during traveling).
I also suppose that many of those who subscribed once and found out (during a
certain period) that most posts in this ng are _not_ about recordings of
classical music, and who left the ng for this reason, never un-subscribed.
>
> When you "subscribe" you merely tell your newsreader that you want to
> read the group, but only the newsreader knows you subscribed. For
> instance, Supernews may know who's reading RMCR from its servers, but
> would have no clue as to who is reading it from Google groups, and
> vice versa.
>
> I think if Google says that there are ~2000 "subscribers," that only
> accounts for those who read it from Google.
>
Something like that, but then a little different. It can *not* be an estimation
by Google how many participate.
But actually no subscription of any kind is necessary to read the newsgroup from
Google. I think that a subscription only is needed when you want to
_participate_ using Google Groups. The same can been seen on many web forums:
everyone can read, but participating only can be done by those who have
subscribed, or registered, or whatever.
Proboscis
"Bob Lombard" <thorste...@vermontel.net> wrote
> Rugby wrote:
>> Bob Lombard <thorsteinnos...@vermontel.net> wrote:
>>> It's the restriction against being a 'disruptive asshole' that keeps
>>> me out. I need that freedom.
>>
>> I dont recall anyone thinking you are disruptive.
>
> that matters.
Bull.
What kind of freedom is the freedom to encroach on other people's freedom?
Proboscis
"O" <ow...@denofinequityx.com> wrote
>
> I think if Google says that there are ~2000 "subscribers," that only
> accounts for those who read it from Google.
Couldn't it be that Google simple counts the 'unique' contributors over a
given period, from wherever they post?
Bob Lombard
bl
Bob Lombard
I think I recognize your sentiment, even though it is poorly
expressed. To extend that inadequacy: Part of freedom is the freedom
not to exercise one's freedom to that freedom's fullest extent.
bl
Bill Anderson
As one of the individuals who posts via google, I had to sign up or
'subscribe' to the group. So my guess is that the subscription number
I mentioned would be google participants only. Of course, there are
many 'lurkers' (*) out there that can read RMCR, or other forums, but
cannot post messages...
- Bill
* -I prefer the term 'guests' :-)
William Sommerwerck
>> on other people's freedom?
> I think I recognize your sentiment, even though it is poorly
> expressed. To extend that inadequacy: Part of freedom is
> the freedom not to exercise one's freedom to that freedom's
> fullest extent.
The old saying goes... "The freedom to swing my arm ends at your nose."
Something like that.
Dil
> As one of the individuals who posts via google, I had to sign up or
> 'subscribe' to the group. So my guess is that the subscription number
> I mentioned would be google participants only. Of course, there are
> many 'lurkers' (*) out there that can read RMCR, or other forums, but
> cannot post messages...
I post through Google but I don't believe I ever had to "subscribe" to
this group to post to it. However, I did have to register with an id
and password then sign in before I post to *any* usenet group that
Google carries.
As far as the true number that lurk rmcr on a regular basis, it is a
good question (we all know the frequency of regular posters). I have
found it interesting that since I have posted a YouTube link here a
few days ago, the number of viewings to that video has risen by about
70. So, how many have saw that link here and weren't interested in
clicking it? 100? 200? 500? -could be anyone's guess.
Dil.
O
Gerard <ghen_nospam_driksen�@hotmail.com> wrote:
Google could do this one of two ways:
1) Observe how many people read the group through their portal
or
2) Count the unique email addresses from senders.
In either case, if Google counts ~2000, then there must be far more
lurkers who don't post, but only read our accumulating wisdom.
> But actually no subscription of any kind is necessary to read the newsgroup
> from
> Google. I think that a subscription only is needed when you want to
> _participate_ using Google Groups. The same can been seen on many web forums:
> everyone can read, but participating only can be done by those who have
> subscribed, or registered, or whatever.
I don't believe Google, like most of Usenet, requires you to
"subscribe" to anything to post to the group, unless you need a "google
account" which has really nothing to do with Usenet, but more to do
with Google.
-Owen
O
<08efcd0f-e6b7-4074...@a32g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>,
Bill Anderson <willem....@comcast.net> wrote:
Here's how a typical (non-Google) newsreader does a "subscription:"
1) Present the user with a huge list of available accounts and allow
him to pick from it (i.e. "subscribe") (or, allow him a type of search
feature)
2) Those picks are retained by the newsreader only to remember which
groups you are interested in.
3) The group and usenet have no idea who "subscribes" because all it
gets is a call that says: "Give me all the articles in RMCR"
4) Usenet contains no mechanism where it retains a membership list of
posters or potential posters. Anyone is free to post at any time, with
only the requirements of the service they use to access it.
-Owen
Bill Anderson
When entering the membership to a group on google, they ask you to
identify your e-mail receipt options. Google calls that decision the
'subscription'. So my guess is that google uses the terms membership
and subscription as interchangable - but I might be wrong.
The number of guests is of course unknown - but I have had a few
guests contact me privately about my downloads.
Kip Williams
Usually it's expressed the other way around, and by people who like to
stick their nose in my personal space.
Kip W
Bill Anderson
look at many unmoderated groups in google without joining. Google
includes the number of members, and general comments on posting
activity volume, just as added ' interesting to know' information
Richard S. Sandmeyer
O <ow...@denofinequityx.com> wrote:
If Google merely checks for unique (possibly fake) e-mail addresses,
then they will be multiply counting all of the trolls who make frequent
address changes. I can see how that would easily bump the count up to
2000.
On the other hand, if Google counts only unique IP addresses, then it
would still double count someone who reads/posts to the newsgroup
sometimes from home and other times from work (or on travel or
whatever). And this would undercount people who share the same computer
to access the newsgroup. In short, I don't know what the 2000 figure
counts, but I doubt that it is a very accurate count of the people,
whether posting or just lurking, who visit this ng for info/opinions on
CM.
> In either case, if Google counts ~2000, then there must be far more
> lurkers who don't post, but only read our accumulating wisdom.
>
>
> > But actually no subscription of any kind is necessary to read the newsgroup
> > from
> > Google. I think that a subscription only is needed when you want to
> > _participate_ using Google Groups. The same can been seen on many web
> > forums:
> > everyone can read, but participating only can be done by those who have
> > subscribed, or registered, or whatever.
>
> I don't believe Google, like most of Usenet, requires you to
> "subscribe" to anything to post to the group, unless you need a "google
> account" which has really nothing to do with Usenet, but more to do
> with Google.
>
> -Owen
--
Rich Sandmeyer
rich dot sand at verizon dot net
Allen
> According to google statistics, there are 2551 subscribers, though not
> all actively participate.
sick person who attacks Ward Hardman several times a day using a
different name every day get counted. The sure mark of a troll is the
constant shifting of identities.
Allen
Norman Schwartz
> Hello Owen -
>
> As one of the individuals who posts via google, I had to sign up or
> 'subscribe' to the group.
Signing 'in' is different from signing 'up'. I've used google to read and
post when my news server (news.optonline.net) is experiencing problems. If
I've removed cookies and files from my 'puter in the interim, google no
longer recognizes me, and in order to post (but not read), I'm prompted to
sign 'in', (same as if I want to read my g.mail or webmail from
mail.optonline.net).
Norman Schwartz
"O" <ow...@denofinequityx.com> wrote in message
news:211120090917429266%ow...@denofinequityx.com...
> In article
> <08efcd0f-e6b7-4074...@a32g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>,
> Bill Anderson <willem....@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>> Hello Owen -
>>
>> As one of the individuals who posts via google, I had to sign up or
>> 'subscribe' to the group. So my guess is that the subscription number
>> I mentioned would be google participants only. Of course, there are
>> many 'lurkers' (*) out there that can read RMCR, or other forums, but
>> cannot post messages...
>>
>> - Bill
>>
>> * -I prefer the term 'guests' :-)
>
> Here's how a typical (non-Google) newsreader does a "subscription:"
>
> 1) Present the user with a huge list of available accounts and allow
> him to pick from it (i.e. "subscribe") (or, allow him a type of search
> feature)
>
In OE I can pick without any need to subscribe, there is a button which says
'go to' and a different one which says 'subscribe'.
Matthew�B.�Tepper
following letters to be typed in
news:jvCNm.234709$BL3....@en-nntp-08.dc1.easynews.com:
> Gerard wrote:
>> Kevin N wrote:
>>> that they are kicked out. The only advantage RMCR has to that group is
>>> depth (going back at least 10 years vs 10 months), and breadth (1000s
>>> of participants vs 100s).
>>
>> RMCR does not have 1000s of participants.
>> Did you count everyone who has posted once (or more) since the
>> beginning of RMCR?
>
> If readers/lurkers are considered participants (I do so consider them)
> there may be thousands.
You wouldn't believe how many times I've received "blind" emails from
friendly lurkers, people who kindly sent me CDs or MP3s merely because it
gave them pleasure to share something good with another human being. There
have been some unfriendly lurkers, but for the most part, thankfully, they
don't send me emails; a couple of them have, but I block them and move on.
The whole Proty business, in which the perpetrator of multiple false
personalities here also had the habit of chatting up r.m.c.r. contributors
in private email, has left me more than a little wary. But, as Anne Frank
said (and God knows she went through far worse than I have ever seen),
"Despite everything, I believe that people are really good at heart."
--
Matthew B. Tepper: WWW, science fiction, classical music, ducks!
Read about "Proty" here: http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/proty.html
To write to me, do for my address what Androcles did for the lion
Opinions expressed here are not necessarily those of my employers
Matthew�B.�Tepper
be typed in news:e8CdnVTZZ6S4m5XW...@giganews.com:
I think there are about a hundred variants of that creature's handle in my
killfile. Could be more that I've missed, though. Hmm, as long as I've come
up with the name "Proty" for the shapeshifter from the Isle of Man, how about
a name for this one as well? It's long overdue. I suggest "Gollum."
Matthew�B.�Tepper
to be typed in news:201120092244220796%ow...@denofinequityx.com:
So there could be thousands of people reading us here? Wow. Okay, kids,
when your parents are sleeping, look in their wallets and purses and pull
out the funny green paper and send them to me! (R.I.P., Soupy Sales!)
AN
Getting on for 2551 times..... it seems.
Gerard
> in my killfile. Could be more that I've missed, though. Hmm, as
> long as I've come up with the name "Proty"
Are you still smiling happily because of that "unbelievable invention"?
>
> for the shapeshifter from
> the Isle of Man, how about a name for this one as well? It's long
> overdue. I suggest "Gollum."
Who cares about a "name"?
Kip Williams
> So there could be thousands of people reading us here? Wow. Okay, kids,
> when your parents are sleeping, look in their wallets and purses and pull
> out the funny green paper and send them to me! (R.I.P., Soupy Sales!)
These days you might want to say "the funny papers that look like a high
school art class had everybody submit a design and used all of them."
If you have US currency in mind.
And yeah, Soupy was one of the great ones.
Kip W
O
<b26e5116-f1c1-491d...@m16g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>,
Bill Anderson <willem....@comcast.net> wrote:
I would say that RMCR is one of the more popular newsgroups, merely
based on the turnover time at most nntp servers. Using my regular ISP,
I would have to sign on more than once a day to make sure that old
messages didn't fall off the edge. I use Giganews/supernews now, so
that's not an issue, but it still is a heavily trafficked group.
One could say it's all trolls and politics, but all the other popular
groups have trolls and politics too. What keeps the trolls alive is
that the newsgroup is very much alive, as opposed to other groups which
they've managed to kill off.
-Owen
Kip Williams
> One could say it's all trolls and politics, but all the other popular
> groups have trolls and politics too. What keeps the trolls alive is
> that the newsgroup is very much alive, as opposed to other groups which
> they've managed to kill off.
Like many newsgroups, it's not the best place for a weakling to be, so
perhaps this has worked out for the best. Bearing in mind, of course,
proper safety insofar as regards door/keester injuries.
Kip W