The Schumann Symphonies

[JohnGavin]

I would appreciate reading your recommendations for a set of the Schumann Symphonies.

Bernstein, Karajan, are ones I am considering. Has Nicholas Harnancourt recorded these? Thanks.

[randy...@gmail.com]

On Friday, September 14, 2012 7:41:19 AM UTC-7, JohnGavin wrote:
> I would appreciate reading your recommendations for a set of the Schumann Symphonies.
>
>
>
> Bernstein, Karajan, are ones I am considering. Has Nicholas Harnancourt recorded these? Thanks.

I'd get the Szell Masterworks Heritage set before Bernstein or Karajan:

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0000029PC

Also top-notch is Sawallisch:

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00005YUBL

For HIP recordings Gardiner is an excellent choice:

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000006PKI

[jrsnfld]

On Sep 14, 7:41 am, JohnGavin <dagd...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I would appreciate reading your recommendations for a set of the Schumann Symphonies.
>
> Bernstein, Karajan, are ones I am considering.  Has Nicholas Harnancourt recorded these?  Thanks.

Harnoncourt is quite good in Schumann, and his cycle was recorded with
the COE, but those Teldec recordings may not be in print at the
moment--used copies can be found, however.

--Jeff

[William Sommerwerck]

I used to like Karajan and Haitink, and if they're cheap enough, you can't
go wrong. I don't have a current favorite set, though my memories of
Sawallisch are favorable, Harnoncourt not so favorable.

However... Once you've absorbed the "conventional" recordings, get the
Dausgaard on BIS. These are electrifying, thrilling performances that will
knock you out of your seat. Not your "first" or "second" set, but definitely
your third.

[William Sommerwerck]

Error... I said Harnoncourt, and should have said Gardiner. I found his
performances too-often mannered and fussy.

[David Fox]

Also Bernstein, both the NYP set and the VPO set.

DF

[Gerard]

"jrsnfld" wrote in message
news:2d75296e-74b3-4aba...@o8g2000yqm.googlegroups.com...

--------------------------------

Barenboim and Zinman haven't been mentioned yet.
They should be.

[jrsnfld]

On Sep 14, 8:17 am, "William Sommerwerck" <grizzledgee...@comcast.net>
wrote:

> Error... I said Harnoncourt, and should have said Gardiner. I found his
> performances too-often mannered and fussy.

Gardiner is usually too rigidly metrical for my tastes, but in this
case the excellent recording, fine playing, and revealing textures
make his Schumann rather successful--good enough for me. However,
Goodman's set is perhaps even more juicy and romantic, while
maintaining the clarifying HIP textures. So Goodman is my
recommendation for this breed of Schumann sets.

--Jeff

[randy...@gmail.com]

> Barenboim and Zinman haven't been mentioned yet.
>
> They should be.

Barenboim CSO or Dresden. Or both?

[Ricky Jimenez]

As an auxiliary question, Do the orchestrations in the Szell and
Chailly/Gewandhaus sets sound any different to you than in the others?
The former ones claim to use tampered with versions; Chailly uses the
"Mahler edition". My impression is that most conductors make changes
in Schumann, but most don't advertise it.

[randy...@gmail.com]

On Friday, September 14, 2012 7:41:19 AM UTC-7, JohnGavin wrote:

> I would appreciate reading your recommendations for a set of the Schumann Symphonies.
>
>
>
> Bernstein, Karajan, are ones I am considering. Has Nicholas Harnancourt recorded these? Thanks.

Anyone know the Levine set, which is very inexpensive on Sony Masters?

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B003XIO8IG

[randy...@gmail.com]

On Friday, September 14, 2012 7:41:19 AM UTC-7, JohnGavin wrote:

> I would appreciate reading your recommendations for a set of the Schumann Symphonies.
>
>
>
> Bernstein, Karajan, are ones I am considering. Has Nicholas Harnancourt recorded these? Thanks.

Now that the Chailly set has been out for a while, does anyone know the Mahler-Edition well enough to offer an opinion about whether they belong in a comprehensive Schumann collection?

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000YM4I4S

[wkasimer]

On Sep 14, 12:11 pm, randy.l...@gmail.com wrote:

> Anyone know the Levine set, which is very inexpensive on Sony Masters?
>
> http://www.amazon.com/dp/B003XIO8IG

An excellent set (I bought it when it was available in Japan). His DG
set with the BPO is similar in style, and IIRC, is better recorded:

http://www.amazon.com/Sinfonien-1-4-James-Levine/dp/B000NQDBY8/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1347639311&sr=8-1&keywords=B000NQDBY8

Other sets deserving of consideration are Mehta's with the VPO...

http://www.amazon.com/Schumann-Sym-Nos-Manfred-Overture/dp/B000OPP9SO/ref=sr_1_1?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1347639359&sr=1-1&keywords=mehta+schumann

... and Barenboim's with the Staatkapelle Berlin:

http://www.amazon.com/Schumann-Symphonies-~-Barenboim-Robert/dp/B00012HQVI/ref=sr_1_1?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1347639466&sr=1-1&keywords=barenboim+schumann

Kubelik's DG set is also worth a listen:

http://www.amazon.com/Schumann-4-Symphonies-Robert/dp/B002UIWSLE/ref=sr_1_1?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1347639547&sr=1-1&keywords=schumann+kubelik

I seem to be in a minority, but I really enjoy Gardiner's extrovert
versions.

Bill

[David Fox]

It's a decent set. The sound is a bit hazy though.

The Schumann Symphonies have been fairly lucky on disc. I don't believe
anybody's mentioned either Kubelik set either, both of which are wonderful.

DF

[jrsnfld]

Barenboim's second set is with the Staatskapelle Berlin, not
Staatskapelle Dresden.

--Jeff

[Kerrison]

On Sep 14, 5:23 pm, David Fox <davidfox2...@yahoo.com> wrote:

The Bernstein CBS LP set stated that he "employs the original Schumann
orchestrations, rather than any of the later, commonly used revisions
by others." The 'others' included George Szell, also on CBS, who did
use heavily re-orchestrated versions of the works. Whether any record
critics have ever noticed is another matter.

[Gerard]

jrsnfld <jrs...@aol.com> typed:

> On Sep 14, 9:09 am, randy.l...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > Barenboim and Zinman haven't been mentioned yet.
> >
> > > They should be.
> >
> > Barenboim CSO or Dresden. Or both?
>
> Barenboim's second set is with the Staatskapelle Berlin,

That's the one.
BTW Another nice set is Marriner's - reissued on Brilliant Classics.

How is Skrowaczewski (on Oehms)?

[David Fox]

It's funny - conductors have been claiming for generations that they are
FINALLY presenting the true Schumann, devoid of doublings and other
orchestral enhancements layered on by their predecessors. In truth,
there are probably more un-doctored Schumann recordings than doctored ones.

DF

[jrsnfld]

This is a reason to shy away from Szell's set as first choice, even
though it is well worth owning and hearing. If one wants the Cleveland
Orchestra in Schumann, the better set is Dohnanyi's, not just for
textual reasons, but because it is very well recorded, played and
conducted. That is easily one of my favorite sets, along with Kubelik
(DG), Bernstein (DG), and Harnoncourt.

Having loved his Vienna Schumann 2 and Dresden Schumann 3 (DVD only),
I used to feel bad that I didn't snap up a nice reasonably priced copy
of Sinopoli's complete set on DG when I had the chance a few years
ago. But it's been reissued at a decent price on a DG two-fer. Anyone
vote for that cycle?

--Jeff

[Kerrison]

I just called up the Paray / Detroit set on Amazon (hitherto
unmentioned on here) and was interested in some of the comments
underneath ...

http://www.amazon.com/Four-Symphonies-Schumann/dp/B00000IIX6

At long last, we have the four Schumann symphonies, plus Manfred
Overture, released in the awesome Mercury Living Presence series.
There is an aura of exuberance here not commonly found in symphony
orchestra recordings. Paray leads his Detroit Symphony, well-trained
in his Gallic style, in this rip-roaring set. If you doubt that
Schumann lives, you owe it to yourself to listen to these enthusiastic
renditions. The instrumentalists are thoroughly rehearsed and come
across as very secure. The First Symphony, in particular, seems to me
to be the personification of the joy of life. This is Schumann played
as it should be played, and I dare anyone to call these performances
routine. Mercury's sound, which was always way ahead of its time, is
brilliance anew in these releases. If anything, the recordings sound
newer and fresher than when they were first released on LP. Highly
recommended.

There isn't much more to add to what's already been said except to
tack on a star. This is far and away the most beautiful Schumann
committed to disk, the type of lost Gallic conducting art of which
Paray was THE master--a unique practitioner who always gave a great
performance, no matter what the material. Wilma Cozart has done an
admirable job of cleaning up hiss and tubby bass from her original
recording sessions in the 50s--and it seems the mono Fourth has had
next to nothing done to it because the antecedent was so good. The
Second had to be worked again from her binaural mixdown instead of the
three channel version originally used--the 3-channel was "unavailable"
according to the notes. Don't throw out any of your vinyl, especially
the No. 2, since it sounds better than this reissue which lacks the
wide stereo spectrum. However, these are minor caveats when we're
dealing with a production of this standard. The competing Bernstein is
frenetic and ragged, Szell gives us the riveting-machine approach in
that irritating Severance Hall sound which had a range from "f" to
"ffffff" and little else. If the Solti is back out, it is
interpretatively a cipher, and Inbal, while enjoyable and clear-
visioned is certainly not on the Paray level. Paray's long-awaited set
is the choice from all standpoints and isn't likely to be bettered
anytime soon. It's been around 40 years now and it hasn't had a
serious approach yet.

... And so on in similar vein.

[jrsnfld]

It's fun to hear Paray have his zippy way with this music, don't you
think? Definitely a set to have, but I think not first choice for our
Original Poster. Paray is a bit extreme with his tempi. Less extreme,
and oft overlooked, is the very fine set by Semkow/St. Louis. I keep
forgetting about it, but it's been consistently satisfying over the
years. Decently recorded by Vox, too (I'm not a huge fan of the dry,
in-your-face Mercury sound for Paray).

--Jeff

[Johannes Roehl]

Am 14.09.2012 18:19, schrieb wkasimer:

> I seem to be in a minority, but I really enjoy Gardiner's extrovert
> versions.

I think this one is essential because one gets both versions of #4 and
the very rarely recorded "Zwickauer" fragment as fillers.

[Frank Berger]

"Kerrison" <kerrison1...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:a3a33e68-139d-4266...@k20g2000vbk.googlegroups.com...

"At long last?" This was released in 1999!

[Oscar]

On Sep 14, 11:09 am, Frank Berger wrote:
>
> I just called up the Paray / Detroit set on Amazon (hitherto
> unmentioned on here) and was interested in some of the comments
> underneath  ...
>

> "At long last?"  This was released in 1999!

The Amazon reviewer you quoted, with his exclamation of 'at long
last', was obviously referring to the Symphonies late appearance on
CD. Great set!

[Oscar]

On Sep 14, 10:25 am, jrsnfld wrote:
>
> Less extreme, and oft overlooked, is the very fine set by
> Semkow/St. Louis. I keep forgetting about it, but it's been consistently
> satisfying over the years. Decently recorded by Vox, too (I'm not a
> huge fan of the dry, in-your-face Mercury sound for Paray).

Another excellent set. I have it on Vox LP's.

[MiNe 109]

In article <k2vhel$7a3$1...@dont-email.me>,

I have enjoyed the Dausgaard/Schumann I've heard so far. It's available
on hybrid SACD and also on Amazon mp3 in the very inexpensive Schumann
Rise of the Masters set.

Stephen

[jrsnfld]

On Sep 14, 11:18 am, MiNe 109 <smcelr...@POPaustin.rr.com> wrote:
> In article <k2vhel$7a...@dont-email.me>,

>  "William Sommerwerck" <grizzledgee...@comcast.net> wrote:
>
> > I used to like Karajan and Haitink, and if they're cheap enough, you can't
> > go wrong. I don't have a current favorite set, though my memories of
> > Sawallisch are favorable, Harnoncourt not so favorable.
>
> > However... Once you've absorbed the "conventional" recordings, get the
> > Dausgaard on BIS. These are electrifying, thrilling performances that will
> > knock you out of your seat. Not your "first" or "second" set, but definitely
> > your third.
>
> I have enjoyed the Dausgaard/Schumann I've heard so far. It's available
> on hybrid SACD and also on Amazon mp3 in the very inexpensive Schumann
> Rise of the Masters set.

I don't know the set, but Dausgaard's Schumann as heard in broadcasts
seems to be superb...so I have a feeling I'd agree with you about the
CDs.

--Jeff

[Johannes Roehl]

Am 14.09.2012 19:25, schrieb jrsnfld:

> It's fun to hear Paray have his zippy way with this music, don't you
> think? Definitely a set to have, but I think not first choice for our
> Original Poster. Paray is a bit extreme with his tempi. Less extreme,
> and oft overlooked, is the very fine set by Semkow/St. Louis. I keep
> forgetting about it, but it's been consistently satisfying over the
> years. Decently recorded by Vox, too (I'm not a huge fan of the dry,
> in-your-face Mercury sound for Paray).

I got the Semkow set in some re-issue (by "documents" or some dubious
label, but seemingly legit as VOX is credited) and way rather
dissappointed. I didn't like the sound at all and could detect no
redeeming features. I should maybe give it another try, but I wonder
whether the sound way messed up in the transfer or bad to begin with and
what others find special about this particular set. (I own Bernstein/DG,
Levine/DG, Gardiner and a bunch of single discs)

[wkasimer]

On Sep 14, 2:18 pm, MiNe 109 <smcelr...@POPaustin.rr.com> wrote:

> I have enjoyed the Dausgaard/Schumann I've heard so far. It's available
> on hybrid SACD and also on Amazon mp3 in the very inexpensive Schumann
> Rise of the Masters set.

Thanks for pointing out the latter - it's the sort of thing that I
would normally ignore. Are there other items in that series that are
as worthy as this one? The Grieg one looks tempting.

Bill

[Dana John Hill]

"Johannes Roehl" <parr...@web.de> wrote in message
news:abh9f8...@mid.individual.net...

And the Gardiner set has a fine recording of the Konzertst�ck for Four
Horns.

Dana John Hill
Gainesville, Florida

[jrsnfld]

The sound on the Vox is ever so slightly thin and just smidgen dated
now, but actually it is natural and clear. I hear plenty of details
that are not always so obvious in other recordings. You should hear
reasonable spaciousness, relatively consistent perspectives, and
appropriate balances and blend (in the colorful St. Louis manner with
strong brass when needed and bright but not domineering winds, sweet
but not ultradark strings). Overall, I'd say if you're wondering about
the transfer, you should get the Vox version.

As for the performances, perhaps after Bernstein, Levine, and
Gardiner, all of which are superb, there's nothing "special" in
Semkow. But I'd say it in the reverse too: after Semkow, I don't find
Levine "special", nor many others. Semkow has lots of forward
propulsion without hurry. The playing features excellent balance and
clarity (if not displacing HIP versions in this regard), and that
critical ability to shift effortlessly from brooding to sunshine. By
comparison, stretches of Zinman's excellent set seem relatively
routine and uninflected to me, and when he's interesting he's too
calculated compared to a natural like Semkow or (perhaps a kindred
spirit) Kletzki (another set to investigate!). Like Kletzki, Semkow is
always moving from one perfectly captured mood to the next, shifting
gears effortlessly. The music sings and prances; the performances
rarely clobber you with power or suffocate with weight; the strength
here is the alert phrasing and reliable momentum.

So I think you should give Semkow another chance. Try the Rhenish and
tell me if you find his phrasing routine, the moods monochromatic, or
the playing any less than zesty. He is not as showy about it as
Bernstein (one of my favorites!), and maybe he misses a point or two
about reverence and gravitas because his orchestra is better at bright
than at dark, but I think it's all there in proper proportion. In any
case, Semkow's set deserves consideration in exalted company.

--Jeff

[Dontait...@aol.com]

On Sep 14, 10:23 am, David Fox <davidfox2...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> <randy.l...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Friday, September 14, 2012 7:41:19 AM UTC-7, JohnGavin wrote:
> >> I would appreciate reading your recommendations for a set of the Schumann Symphonies.

[snip]

> Also Bernstein, both the NYP set and the VPO set.
>
> DF

For a cycle, I especially love Bernstein's NY Phil. set. The Rhenish
in particular, which has a swing and mastery I've only heard matched
on recordings by Toscanini and Bruno Walter. Bernstein seems to have
had an inborn mastery for Schumann. As he did for Haydn. I confess
that I've only had a few exposures to his VPO Schumann recordings.

Don Tait

[Dontait...@aol.com]

On Sep 14, 1:09 pm, "Frank Berger" <frankdber...@gmail.com> wrote:
> "Kerrison" <kerrison126-spar...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message

Paray's Mercury Schumann recordings were always greatly praised, and
with reason. They were superb. I bought the LPs, too.

The mono and stereo LPs of no. 3, "Rhenish," provided sharp aural
evidence of the difference between the mono and stereo Mercury
microphone recording setups. The published LPs derived from them and
reflected their sound and perspectives. I own both of the Rhenish, but
don't remember which is which -- except that in one, Paray can be
heard loudly humming in his usual falsetto whereas in the other, at
the same music, he cannot.

I won't comment on the other remarks about conductors' performances.

Don Tait

[MiNe 109]

In article
<3d6c760f-311a-46f1...@t9g2000pbc.googlegroups.com>,

The Debussy has lots of BIS piano.

Stephen

[Paul Goldstein]

In article <smcelroy2-DCDB3...@5ad64b5e.bb.sky.com>, MiNe 109
says...

And the Mozart and Schubert have lots of BIS recordings, pretty much all of them
meritorious and superbly recorded.

[Herman]

Le vendredi 14 septembre 2012 16:41:19 UTC+2, JohnGavin a écrit :
> I would appreciate reading your recommendations for a set of the Schumann Symphonies.
>
>
>
> Bernstein, Karajan, are ones I am considering. Has Nicholas Harnancourt recorded these? Thanks.

Kubelik and the Bavarian SO is a very good one.

The NYPO Bernstein is horrible. The recording is terrible, with a thousand screeching violins, and Bernstein is at his hectoring worst.

I have never liked the Sawallish, but it's such a long time ago I heard it, I can't really comment.

The Gardiner set is very good; it has the two versions of the 4th, the "Zwickau" symphony and the Konzertstuck for 4 horns.

[M forever]

On Sep 14, 12:03 pm, jrsnfld <jrsn...@aol.com> wrote:
> On Sep 14, 8:17 am, "William Sommerwerck" <grizzledgee...@comcast.net>
> wrote:
>
> > Error... I said Harnoncourt, and should have said Gardiner. I found his
> > performances too-often mannered and fussy.
>
> Gardiner is usually too rigidly metrical for my tastes, but in this
> case the excellent recording, fine playing, and revealing textures
> make his Schumann rather successful--good enough for me. However,
> Goodman's set is perhaps even more juicy and romantic, while
> maintaining the clarifying HIP textures. So Goodman is my
> recommendation for this breed of Schumann sets.

Seriously? I haven't heard these recordings but most of what I heard
from Goodman and the Hanover Band back then when they cranked out a
lot of recordings was pretty sloppy and uninteresting.

[M forever]

On Sep 14, 12:19 pm, wkasimer <wkasi...@comcast.net> wrote:

> On Sep 14, 12:11 pm, randy.l...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> > Anyone know the Levine set, which is very inexpensive on Sony Masters?
>
> >http://www.amazon.com/dp/B003XIO8IG
>

> An excellent set (I bought it when it was available in Japan).  His DG
> set with the BPO is similar in style, and IIRC, is better recorded:
>
> http://www.amazon.com/Sinfonien-1-4-James-Levine/dp/B000NQDBY8/ref=sr...
>
> Other sets deserving of consideration are Mehta's with the VPO...
>
> http://www.amazon.com/Schumann-Sym-Nos-Manfred-Overture/dp/B000OPP9SO...
>
> ... and Barenboim's with the Staatkapelle Berlin:
>
> http://www.amazon.com/Schumann-Symphonies-~-Barenboim-Robert/dp/B0001...
>
> Kubelik's DG set is also worth a listen:
>
> http://www.amazon.com/Schumann-4-Symphonies-Robert/dp/B002UIWSLE/ref=...

>
> I seem to be in a minority, but I really enjoy Gardiner's extrovert
> versions.

Few find Gardiner "extrovert", I guess. Driven, relentless, somewhat
mechanical and metronomic to me seem better adjectives to describe it.
That said, I think the Konzertstück included in the box is pretty
spectacular, with some fantasticslly virtuoso and extremely stylish
horn playing.

[M forever]

I would but I probably don't count because it is well known that I am
a big Sinopoli fan. That said, I don't think it is his very best work,
but still worth checking out, especially for the very stylish
orchestral playing.

What do you think of Thielemann's Philharmonia cycle?

[M forever]

On Sep 14, 10:41 am, JohnGavin <dagd...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I would appreciate reading your recommendations for a set of the Schumann Symphonies.
>
> Bernstein, Karajan, are ones I am considering.  Has Nicholas Harnancourt recorded these?  Thanks.

He hasn't, but another conductor with a rather similar name has. His
name is Nikolaus Harnoncourt, and the cycle - with the CoE - is
outstanding. You can easily find both the individual discs and a 3 CD
box with the violin and piano concertos on Amazon.

I also *highly* recommend this phenomenal live performance:

http://www.amazon.com/Schubert-Symphony-No-Schumann/dp/B000000SN5/

I was in the two concerts in which this was recorded. They were among
the very best I have ever heard with the BP. Out of literally
hundreds.

[Matthew B. Tepper]

randy...@gmail.com appears to have caused the following letters to be
typed in news:cccb2675-f4b0-45a2...@googlegroups.com:

> I'd get the Szell Masterworks Heritage set before Bernstein or Karajan:
>
> http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0000029PC
>
> Also top-notch is Sawallisch:
>
> http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00005YUBL
>
> For HIP recordings Gardiner is an excellent choice:
>
> http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000006PKI

I enjoy all three of those sets. Note that there is also a set with
Sawallisch conducting his Philadelphia Orchestra, sold by the orchestra
itself; I've never heard it, but I've heard good things about it.

Bill Kasimer also mentions Barenboim's Staatkapelle Berlin set, which is my
middle-of-the-road "go-to" set. I used to have his Chicago cycle, but
ultimately decided I only liked #2 and the quadrupally-corny piece.

--
Matthew B. Tepper: WWW, science fiction, classical music, ducks!!
Read about "Proty" here: http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/proty.html
To write to me, do for my address what Androcles did for the lion
Opinions expressed here are not necessarily those of my employers.

[Matthew B. Tepper]

David Fox <davidf...@yahoo.com> appears to have caused the following
letters to be typed in news:-uKdnfDvrOFkxM7N...@giganews.com:

> The Schumann Symphonies have been fairly lucky on disc. I don't believe
> anybody's mentioned either Kubelik set either, both of which are wonderful.

I've never heard his DGG set, but used to have the Columbia LPs and liked
them.

[Matthew B. Tepper]

randy...@gmail.com appears to have caused the following letters to be
typed in news:012b1300-7e8e-48c3...@googlegroups.com:

> On Friday, September 14, 2012 7:41:19 AM UTC-7, JohnGavin wrote:
>> I would appreciate reading your recommendations for a set of the
>> Schumann Symphonies.
>>
>> Bernstein, Karajan, are ones I am considering. Has Nicholas
>> Harnancourt recorded these? Thanks.
>

> Now that the Chailly set has been out for a while, does anyone know the
> Mahler-Edition well enough to offer an opinion about whether they belong
> in a comprehensive Schumann collection?
>
> http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000YM4I4S

One conductor who recorded Mahler's edition of the "Rhenish" not just once
but twice was Giulini. The (US) Angel release of the earlier one even
stated "SCHUMANN ORCH. MAHLER" right on the labels.

I haven't seen any mention of a #2 and #3 (plus "Personfred" Overture) that
I'd love to have on CD: Fischer-Dieskau.

[Matthew B. Tepper]

"Dana John Hill" <da...@danajohnhill.com> appears to have caused the
following letters to be typed in news:k30014$m15$1...@usenet.osg.ufl.edu:

> "Johannes Roehl" <parr...@web.de> wrote in message
> news:abh9f8...@mid.individual.net...
>> Am 14.09.2012 18:19, schrieb wkasimer:
>>
>>> I seem to be in a minority, but I really enjoy Gardiner's extrovert
>>> versions.
>>
>> I think this one is essential because one gets both versions of #4 and
>> the very rarely recorded "Zwickauer" fragment as fillers.
>

> And the Gardiner set has a fine recording of the Konzertstück for Four
> Horns.

One of my favorite sets, as much for the fine performances of the canonical
symphonies as for the "extras," particularly the quadrupally-corny piece.

[wanwan]

On Sep 14, 4:41 am, JohnGavin <dagd...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I would appreciate reading your recommendations for a set of the Schumann Symphonies.
>
> Bernstein, Karajan, are ones I am considering.  Has Nicholas Harnancourt recorded these?  Thanks.

I'd go with Karajan, from the 2 mentioned (esp. love the Rhenish) ,
but probably would seek out the Japanese EMI SACD re-issue of the
Sawallish/Dresden recordings. The Philly redo has its points, but I
like the sound of the Dresden Band.

--------------
Eric

[Ray Hall]

On Eloquence I have Mehta/VPO, included with 2 overtures. Also on same
label, I believe, is Uncle Ernie's Schumann symphonies. As I recall they
weren't too bad.

I am pretty pleased with Szell's efforts though.

Ray Hall, Taree

[William Sommerwerck]

My introduction to Schumann, more than 40 years ago, was the Vanguard budget
disk with Gunther Wand conducting the Orchestre di Centi Soli (Orchestra of
100 Soloists) in the Third and Fourth.

I'll never forget hearing the opening of the "Rhenish" for the first time.
It would be wonderful to be able to forget it, so that I could have that
experience again.

[MELMOTH]

Ce cher mammif�re du nom de JohnGavin nous susurrait, le vendredi
14/09/2012, dans nos oreilles grandes ouvertes mais un peu sales tout
de m�me, et dans le message
<6438493c-c58f-4e8b...@googlegroups.com>, les doux
m�lismes suivants :

> I would appreciate reading your recommendations for a set of the
> Schumann Symphonies.

*Szell*
*Paray*
*Kubelik*

--
Car avec beaucoup de science, il y a beaucoup de chagrin ; et celui qui
accro�t sa science accro�t sa douleur.
[Eccl�siaste, 1-18]
MELMOTH - souffrant

[Steve de Mena]

On 9/14/12 9:04 PM, Matthew B. Tepper wrote:
> "Dana John Hill" <da...@danajohnhill.com> appears to have caused the
> following letters to be typed in news:k30014$m15$1...@usenet.osg.ufl.edu:
>
>> "Johannes Roehl" <parr...@web.de> wrote in message
>> news:abh9f8...@mid.individual.net...
>>> Am 14.09.2012 18:19, schrieb wkasimer:
>>>
>>>> I seem to be in a minority, but I really enjoy Gardiner's extrovert
>>>> versions.
>>>
>>> I think this one is essential because one gets both versions of #4 and
>>> the very rarely recorded "Zwickauer" fragment as fillers.
>>

>> And the Gardiner set has a fine recording of the Konzertst�ck for Four

>> Horns.
>
> One of my favorite sets, as much for the fine performances of the canonical
> symphonies as for the "extras," particularly the quadrupally-corny piece.
>

Twice in the same thread you manage to use the term "quadrupally-corny
piece."

Impressive.

Steve

[Steve de Mena]

On 9/14/12 3:07 PM, Dontait...@aol.com wrote:

> Paray's Mercury Schumann recordings were always greatly praised, and
> with reason. They were superb. I bought the LPs, too.
>
> The mono and stereo LPs of no. 3, "Rhenish," provided sharp aural
> evidence of the difference between the mono and stereo Mercury
> microphone recording setups. The published LPs derived from them and
> reflected their sound and perspectives.

I don't understand that last sentence. The published LPs "derived from
them" (the "mono and stereo LPs"?)

What are the noticeable traits of the mono versus stereo recordings
and which do you prefer?

>I own both of the Rhenish, but
> don't remember which is which -- except that in one, Paray can be
> heard loudly humming in his usual falsetto whereas in the other, at
> the same music, he cannot.
>
> I won't comment on the other remarks about conductors' performances.

Glad you made a point to tell us that... (?)

>
> Don Tait
>

Steve

[wkasimer]

Any comments about Hans Vonk's set?

http://www.amazon.com/Schumann-Symphonies-Nos-1-4-Robert/dp/B001BJ84AW/ref=sr_1_3?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1347712190&sr=1-3&keywords=vonk+schumann

Bill

[John Wiser]

"Steve de Mena" <st...@demena.com> wrote in message
news:fvidnTxLT9ju7snN...@giganews.com...

True! Once would merely be appalling.

JDW

[Steve de Mena]

On 9/14/12 9:04 PM, Matthew B. Tepper wrote:

> randy...@gmail.com appears to have caused the following letters to be
> typed in news:012b1300-7e8e-48c3...@googlegroups.com:
>
>> On Friday, September 14, 2012 7:41:19 AM UTC-7, JohnGavin wrote:
>>> I would appreciate reading your recommendations for a set of the
>>> Schumann Symphonies.
>>>

> I haven't seen any mention of a #2 and #3 (plus "Personfred" Overture) that
> I'd love to have on CD: Fischer-Dieskau.

The thread was about complete Schumann cycles, though I can't recall
these Schumann symphony recordings being discussed when discussing
F-D's conducting discography. What is the label and orchestra and year
(if known).

Steve

[Mark S]

On Friday, September 14, 2012 7:41:19 AM UTC-7, JohnGavin wrote:
> I would appreciate reading your recommendations for a set of the Schumann Symphonies.
>
>
>

> Bernstein, Karajan, are ones I am considering. Has Nicholas Harnancourt recorded these? Thanks.

Both Bernstein & Karajan on DG are both excellent. The Bernstein is my go-to version, in fact. It's very energetic, very immediate. Karajan's 4th is a reference version.

I'd also recommend the Cleveland sets with Dohnanyi and Szell, with a slight edge to Dohnanyi for the recorded sound and - IIRC - without all of Szell's "corrections" to the scores.

There are a lot of excellent Schumann sets around. It may be easier to pick a set by knowing what one should avoid, rather than sorting through the lengthy list you'll end up with by listening to people's recommendations.

[Herman]

Le samedi 15 septembre 2012 16:49:32 UTC+2, Mark S a écrit :

>
> There are a lot of excellent Schumann sets around.

I would disagree with this. I have a lot of Schumann sets languishing on the shelf because they just don't do it for me.

It's quite hard to catch that lyrical, anxious volatility that is central to Schumann and yet keep a steady line.

The Chailly "Mahler" Schumann is the latest addition in that department.

[Matthew B. Tepper]

Steve de Mena <st...@demena.com> appears to have caused the following
letters to be typed in news:_MWdney1LPkHHMnN...@giganews.com:

The label was BASF, and these were available on LP and cassette back in the
late 1970s. Yes, I realized that the thread was about complete cycles, but
these were just too obscure and/or good not to at least mention.

[Matthew B. Tepper]

Steve de Mena <st...@demena.com> appears to have caused the following
letters to be typed in news:fvidnTxLT9ju7snN...@giganews.com:

> On 9/14/12 9:04 PM, Matthew B. Tepper wrote:
>> "Dana John Hill" <da...@danajohnhill.com> appears to have caused the
>> following letters to be typed in news:k30014$m15$1...@usenet.osg.ufl.edu:
>>
>>> "Johannes Roehl" <parr...@web.de> wrote in message
>>> news:abh9f8...@mid.individual.net...
>>>> Am 14.09.2012 18:19, schrieb wkasimer:
>>>>
>>>>> I seem to be in a minority, but I really enjoy Gardiner's extrovert
>>>>> versions.
>>>>
>>>> I think this one is essential because one gets both versions of #4
>>>> and the very rarely recorded "Zwickauer" fragment as fillers.
>>>

>>> And the Gardiner set has a fine recording of the Konzertstück for Four

>>> Horns.
>>
>> One of my favorite sets, as much for the fine performances of the
>> canonical symphonies as for the "extras," particularly the
>> quadrupally-corny piece.
>
> Twice in the same thread you manage to use the term "quadrupally-corny
> piece."
>
> Impressive.

Imagine if I had been able to work it in FOUR times! Sometimes I come up
with silly nicknames for pieces of music that I love, and I really do love
that piece.

[Bob Harper]

On 9/15/12 7:49 AM, Mark S wrote:
> On Friday, September 14, 2012 7:41:19 AM UTC-7, JohnGavin wrote:
>> I would appreciate reading your recommendations for a set of the
>> Schumann Symphonies.
>>
>>
>>
>> Bernstein, Karajan, are ones I am considering. Has Nicholas
>> Harnancourt recorded these? Thanks.
>

> Both Bernstein& Karajan on DG are both excellent. The Bernstein is

> my go-to version, in fact. It's very energetic, very immediate.
> Karajan's 4th is a reference version.

I confess I don't know the Karajan BPO set, but his live recording of
the 4th with the SD from Salzburg merits that designation. One of the
finest things I've ever heard from him. The coupling, Anda playing the
Bartok 3rd with the same forces, isn't bad either.

Bob Harper

[wade]

this was my first exposure too. Talk about getting caught up in the swing of the music!

[jrsnfld]

On Sep 15, 5:30 am, wkasimer <wkasi...@comcast.net> wrote:
> Any comments about Hans Vonk's set?
>

> http://www.amazon.com/Schumann-Symphonies-Nos-1-4-Robert/dp/B001BJ84A...
>
> Bill

Bleah. I've tried to like it, listened a couple of times. I found it
bland from a conducting standpoint. That doesn't mean it's poor--the
playing and sound are fine.
--Jeff

[Johannes Roehl]

Am 14.09.2012 22:21, schrieb jrsnfld:
> On Sep 14, 11:39 am, Johannes Roehl <parrhe...@web.de> wrote:

--snip--

> So I think you should give Semkow another chance. Try the Rhenish and
> tell me if you find his phrasing routine, the moods monochromatic, or
> the playing any less than zesty. He is not as showy about it as
> Bernstein (one of my favorites!), and maybe he misses a point or two
> about reverence and gravitas because his orchestra is better at bright
> than at dark, but I think it's all there in proper proportion. In any
> case, Semkow's set deserves consideration in exalted company.

Thanks a lot for your helpful remarks! Unfortunately I will be unable to
sample the set in the next two weeks, but I will try to listen with your
comments in mind when I get back.

[jrsnfld]

On Sep 15, 8:15 am, "Matthew B. Tepper" <oyþ@earthlink.net> wrote:
> Steve de Mena <st...@demena.com> appears to have caused the following

> letters to be typed innews:fvidnTxLT9ju7snN...@giganews.com:

>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > On 9/14/12 9:04 PM, Matthew B. Tepper wrote:

> >> "Dana John Hill" <d...@danajohnhill.com> appears to have caused the
> >> following letters to be typed innews:k30014$m15$1...@usenet.osg.ufl.edu:
>
> >>> "Johannes Roehl" <parrhe...@web.de> wrote in message

> >>>news:abh9f8...@mid.individual.net...
> >>>> Am 14.09.2012 18:19, schrieb wkasimer:
>
> >>>>> I seem to be in a minority, but I really enjoy Gardiner's extrovert
> >>>>> versions.
>
> >>>> I think this one is essential because one gets both versions of #4
> >>>> and the very rarely recorded "Zwickauer" fragment as fillers.
>
> >>> And the Gardiner set has a fine recording of the Konzertstück for Four
> >>> Horns.
>
> >> One of my favorite sets, as much for the fine performances of the
> >> canonical symphonies as for the "extras," particularly the
> >> quadrupally-corny piece.
>
> > Twice in the same thread you manage to use the term "quadrupally-corny
> > piece."
>
> > Impressive.
>
> Imagine if I had been able to work it in FOUR times!  Sometimes I come up
> with silly nicknames for pieces of music that I love, and I really do love
> that piece.

You really meant to write, "quadrupally corni", but we get the joke
anyway...

--Jeff

[M forever]

On Sep 15, 10:49 am, Mark S <markstenr...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Friday, September 14, 2012 7:41:19 AM UTC-7, JohnGavin wrote:
> > I would appreciate reading your recommendations for a set of the Schumann Symphonies.
>
> > Bernstein, Karajan, are ones I am considering.  Has Nicholas Harnancourt recorded these?  Thanks.
>
> Both Bernstein & Karajan on DG are both excellent. The Bernstein is my go-to version, in fact. It's very energetic, very immediate. Karajan's 4th is a reference version.
>

There is also a very good live 4th with the WP from his last years.

Odd though that Karajan never conducted the 3rd live, and the 1st and
2nd each only on one occasion.

[Gerard]

Matthew B. Tepper <oy�@earthlink.net> typed:

> Steve de Mena <st...@demena.com> appears to have caused the following
> letters to be typed in
> news:fvidnTxLT9ju7snN...@giganews.com:
>
> > On 9/14/12 9:04 PM, Matthew B. Tepper wrote:
> > > "Dana John Hill" <da...@danajohnhill.com> appears to have caused
> > > the following letters to be typed in
> > > news:k30014$m15$1...@usenet.osg.ufl.edu:
> > >
> > > > "Johannes Roehl" <parr...@web.de> wrote in message
> > > > news:abh9f8...@mid.individual.net...
> > > > > Am 14.09.2012 18:19, schrieb wkasimer:
> > > > >
> > > > > > I seem to be in a minority, but I really enjoy Gardiner's
> > > > > > extrovert versions.
> > > > >
> > > > > I think this one is essential because one gets both versions
> > > > > of #4 and the very rarely recorded "Zwickauer" fragment as
> > > > > fillers.
> > > >

> > > > And the Gardiner set has a fine recording of the Konzertst�ck

> > > > for Four Horns.
> > >
> > > One of my favorite sets, as much for the fine performances of the
> > > canonical symphonies as for the "extras," particularly the
> > > quadrupally-corny piece.
> >
> > Twice in the same thread you manage to use the term
> > "quadrupally-corny piece."
> >
> > Impressive.
>
> Imagine if I had been able to work it in FOUR times! Sometimes I
> come up with silly nicknames for pieces of music that I love, and I
> really do love that piece.

You don't like 'Elvira Madigan'?

[Gerard]

wkasimer <wkas...@comcast.net> typed:

> Any comments about Hans Vonk's set?
>
>
http://www.amazon.com/Schumann-Symphonies-Nos-1-4-Robert/dp/B001BJ84AW/ref=sr_1_3?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1347712190&sr=1-3&keywords=vonk+schumann
>
> Bill

That set is "OK". Not very special, but worth listening.

[David Fox]

On 9/14/12 9:04 PM, Matthew B. Tepper wrote:

>

> I enjoy all three of those sets. Note that there is also a set with
> Sawallisch conducting his Philadelphia Orchestra, sold by the orchestra
> itself; I've never heard it, but I've heard good things about it.
>

I have both sets. The Philadelphia set has great sound and some
wonderful playing, but it lacks the forward momentum of the Dresden set.
However, the Philadelphia set also has an excellent Schumann Violin
Concerto with Kavakos as well as some other quality fillers.

DF

[jrsnfld]

On Sep 15, 10:24 am, M forever <ms1...@gmail.com> wrote:

> > Karajan's 4th is a reference version.
>
> There is also a very good live 4th with the WP from his last years.

Do you like that one better than the live 4th with Dresden?

(For me, the reference 4th is Furtwangler's, partly because it's how I
first encountered Schumann symphonies; Karajan does a great job with
the 4th in his various recordings.)

--Jeff

[Lena]

On Sep 14, 9:03 am, jrsnfld <jrsn...@aol.com> wrote:
> On Sep 14, 8:17 am, "William Sommerwerck" <grizzledgee...@comcast.net>
> wrote:
>
> > Error... I said Harnoncourt, and should have said Gardiner. I found his
> > performances too-often mannered and fussy.
>
> Gardiner is usually too rigidly metrical for my tastes, but in this
> case the excellent recording, fine playing, and revealing textures
> make his Schumann rather successful--good enough for me.

Have you heard Oramo/Stockholm? Especially revealing textures (and
interesting balancing decisions).

For example, 1/ii, where the textures are getting a pretty unusual
treatment (successfully, IMO). It sounds lush, transparent, and
shifting, all at once. The melodic line is carried more or less
legato, but the other texture is thicker around it than it normally
seems to be, and it constantly intrudes on the melody. (So it ends up
sounding romantic, but also manages to be interesting. :) )

My old general favorite has been Dohnanyi's set, fwiw.

Lena
PS. I know I owe answers (etc.) elsewhere: I'm working on it....


> However,
> Goodman's set is perhaps even more juicy and romantic, while
> maintaining the clarifying HIP textures. So Goodman is my
> recommendation for this breed of Schumann sets.
>
> --Jeff

[Lena]

On Sep 15, 2:17 pm, Lena <emswo...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Sep 14, 9:03 am, jrsnfld <jrsn...@aol.com> wrote:
>
> > On Sep 14, 8:17 am, "William Sommerwerck" <grizzledgee...@comcast.net>
> > wrote:
>
> > > Error... I said Harnoncourt, and should have said Gardiner. I found his
> > > performances too-often mannered and fussy.
>
> > Gardiner is usually too rigidly metrical for my tastes, but in this
> > case the excellent recording, fine playing, and revealing textures
> > make his Schumann rather successful--good enough for me.
>
> Have you heard Oramo/Stockholm?  Especially revealing textures (and
> interesting balancing decisions).
>
> For example, 1/ii, where the textures are getting a pretty unusual
> treatment (successfully, IMO).  It sounds lush, transparent, and
> shifting, all at once.  The melodic line is carried more or less
> legato, but the other texture is thicker around it than it normally
> seems to be, and it constantly intrudes on the melody.  (So it ends up
> sounding romantic, but also manages to be interesting. :) )
>

Sorry about the abuse of a pronoun...

L.

[M forever]

Dunno. I have never "compared" them. But I do like both. IIRC, Osborne
says in his Karajan biography that after the success of the
Meistersinger recording, EMI wanted to do more with Karajan in
Dresden, but those plans never materialized.

I had been looking for a recording of another SD/Karajan concert, the
one with the SD from 1976, for years but finally stumbled across it on
Youtube (duh!), and several music blogs have also posted it. I wonder
if there are recordings of his other appearances with the SD and with
the Cleveland O in the 60s.

[jrsnfld]

On Sep 15, 2:17 pm, Lena <emswo...@gmail.com> wrote:

>

> Have you heard Oramo/Stockholm?  Especially revealing textures (and
> interesting balancing decisions).
>
> For example, 1/ii, where the textures are getting a pretty unusual
> treatment (successfully, IMO).  It sounds lush, transparent, and
> shifting, all at once.  The melodic line is carried more or less
> legato, but the other texture is thicker around it than it normally
> seems to be, and it constantly intrudes on the melody.  (So it ends up
> sounding romantic, but also manages to be interesting. :) )

I don't know that recording...never seen in it my local store. I'll
keep an eye out for it, given your recommendation.

>
> My old general favorite has been Dohnanyi's set, fwiw.

That's a fine pedigree in Schumann.

--Jeff

[Matthew Silverstein]

On Fri, 14 Sep 2012 07:41:19 -0700 (PDT), JohnGavin wrote:

> I would appreciate reading your recommendations for a set of the Schumann
> Symphonies.
>
> Bernstein, Karajan, are ones I am considering. Has Nicholas Harnancourt
> recorded these? Thanks.

Bernstein's DG set (with the Vienna Philharmonic) is one of my favorites:
big-boned exciting performances that don't suffer from the eccentricities
of some his later DG recordings.

Another perennial favorite is Sawallisch's EMI set with the marvleous
Dresden Staatskapelle.

Matty

[Matthew Silverstein]

On Fri, 14 Sep 2012 19:19:06 -0700 (PDT), M forever wrote:

> Seriously? I haven't heard these recordings but most of what I heard from
> Goodman and the Hanover Band back then when they cranked out a lot of
> recordings was pretty sloppy and uninteresting.

I agree about Goodman and the Hanover Band, but their Schumann set is an
exception. It's the only Goodman recording I've kept.

Matty

[Kerrison]

On Sep 16, 10:20 am, Matthew Silverstein

The reference to You Tube earlier reminded me there's a lovely
performance of the 'Adagio' thereon, from Stokowski's 1950 recording
of Schumann 2 ...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C8xrE_1Vrf0

[J]

On Sep 15, 11:15 am, "Matthew B. Tepper" <oyþ@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
> Imagine if I had been able to work it in FOUR times!  Sometimes I come up
> with silly nicknames for pieces of music that I love, and I really do love
> that piece.

It was, AFAIK, the first Schumann I ever heard. I was listening to the
radio with one ear when those first two chords sounded (what a call to
attention!), and I was mesmerized. Now I have half a dozen recordings
of it, at least, including the one where Meir Rimon plays all four
horn parts!

I also have several sets of the symphonies, and a few extra recordings
of #4 (my favorite). I like the Gardner, and Masur's from London
(which I don't think has been mentioned here)--the only times I have
heard the Konzertstuck live, they were the conductors. For the Mahler
tinkerings, I have Ceccato on BIS. For a while, I owned Inbal on a
Phillips Duo, but I didn't like the sound at all, and got rid of it.

[jrsnfld]

On Sep 16, 2:20 am, Matthew Silverstein

I'll take that as a warning...The Schumann set is the only Goodman/
Hanover Band recording I've bought, except for a Weber disc. (I have a
few of Goodman's recordings with other groups, not particularly
orchestral repertoire.)

The Schumann is lively with striking (but beautiful) textures and very
nicely recorded. It doesn't sound routine and though some of the
phrasing is a bit plain and understated, the performance as a whole
does not come across as sloppy or uninteresting.

--Jeff

[M forever]

On Sep 16, 5:20 am, Matthew Silverstein

OK, thanks for the tip. I see they have that at the library, so I will
check it out some time.

[M forever]

How do you like the Weber disc? I would be interested in hearing
Halstead play the horn concertino.

[M forever]

On Sep 16, 10:01 am, EM <emmemmmemnmme...@gnail.com> wrote:
> M forever <ms1...@gmail.com> - Fri, 14 Sep 2012 19:30:50 -0700 (PDT):
>
> > I also *highly* recommend this phenomenal live performance:
>
> >http://www.amazon.com/Schubert-Symphony-No-Schumann/dp/B000000SN5/
>
> > I was in the two concerts in which this was recorded. They were among
> > the very best I have ever heard with the BP. Out of literally
> > hundreds.
>
> Schumann 1 & 3, RCO/Harnoncourt (2004):
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-A025bgMs2Y
> andhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1CZURi6vzqY
>
> There is also an RCO/Harnoncourt Schumann 4 (2005). I think it was
> available as a free RCO download, but I'm not sure.
>
> Schumann 2, RCO/Gardiner:
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dYTQm1Tk2qM
>
> Those interested in Roy Goodman's Schumann can hear him with the
> Rotterdam PO in a performance of Schumann 2 (1998):
>
> http://concerthuis.radio4.nl/concert/2016?work=8295
>
> EM

Thanks for the links. The sound quality of those clips is actually
pretty good for Youtube. I see they have the Harnoncourt performances
of 1 and 3 on Concertarchive, so I will grab those.

He also did Faust in Amsterdam and Das Paradies und die Peri with the
SOBR. Both are commercially available.

[Dontait...@aol.com]

On Sep 15, 7:30 am, Steve de Mena <st...@demena.com> wrote:
> On 9/14/12 3:07 PM, Dontaitchic...@aol.com wrote:
>
> >    Paray's Mercury Schumann recordings were always greatly praised, and
> > with reason. They were superb. I bought the LPs, too.
>
> >    The mono and stereo LPs of no. 3, "Rhenish," provided sharp aural
> > evidence of the difference between the mono and stereo Mercury
> > microphone recording setups. The published LPs derived from them and
> > reflected their sound and perspectives.
>
> I don't understand that last sentence. The published LPs "derived from
> them" (the "mono and stereo LPs"?)
>
> What are the noticeable traits of the mono versus stereo recordings
> and which do you prefer?

Sorry. Yes, that sentence was ambiguous. Mercury's mono and stereo
recordings were made with completely different microphone setups.
Multiple for stereo, one only for mono. Set up in different places
with, obviously, different pick-up sensitivities. And that was evident
in the sound of the published recordings. In those that I have
compared I have found the mono versions to have a better-defined bass
response, to begin with. But each differs. The bottom line is that
Mercury's mono versions are not simply the stereo tape with its
channels combined, as was the case with other companies in the
fifties. They are different sonic pickups. Tom Fine among others has
explained this at length (check Tom at ARSC.LIST.) Since you asked,
the sonic traits vary per recording. In general, I have found that the
mono mic set-up recordings have better-defined bass and sometimes more
detailed sound. But of course they vary, as the venues did.

> >I own both of the Rhenish, but
> > don't remember which is which -- except that in one, Paray can be
> > heard loudly humming in his usual falsetto whereas in the other, at
> > the same music, he cannot.
>
> >    I won't comment on the other remarks about conductors' performances.
>
> Glad you made a point to tell us that... (?)

> Steve

How glad I am to have made you glad.

Don Tait

[Sol L. Siegel]

M forever <ms1...@gmail.com> wrote in news:05eee11a-a81d-4bc7-a8ce-
6564c4...@a7g2000yqo.googlegroups.com:

> I see they have the Harnoncourt performances
> of 1 and 3 on Concertarchive, so I will grab those.
>
> He also did Faust in Amsterdam and Das Paradies und die Peri with the
> SOBR. Both are commercially available.

I recently got the live RAI of Giulini in Paradies, and don't expect
that I will require another. Reportedly, he turned on Rattle to the
piece. Rattle in turn got Philly to mount it. That moved me to seek
out the Giulini recording. There's some justice in there somewhere.

- Sol L. Siegel, Philadelphia, PA USA

[M forever]

On Sep 16, 8:21 pm, "Sol L. Siegel" <vod...@aol.com> wrote:
> M forever <ms1...@gmail.com> wrote in news:05eee11a-a81d-4bc7-a8ce-

> 6564c4964...@a7g2000yqo.googlegroups.com:

>
> > I see they have the Harnoncourt performances
> > of 1 and 3 on Concertarchive, so I will grab those.
>
> > He also did Faust in Amsterdam and Das Paradies und die Peri with the
> > SOBR. Both are commercially available.
>
> I recently got the live RAI of Giulini in Paradies, and don't expect
> that I will require another.  Reportedly, he turned on Rattle to the
> piece.  Rattle in turn got Philly to mount it.  That moved me to seek
> out the Giulini recording.  There's some justice in there somewhere.

There is also a recording with Sinopoli and the Staatskapelle D on DG.

[Steve de Mena]

I have it but have not played it. I probably should as I don't know
the work. How would you rate it?

Steve

[Steve de Mena]

Thanks for the info Don. It's too bad the SACDs couldn't have found
room for an option to hear the mono recording (for those of us who
don't really have a fulltime setup for LPs any more).

Steve

[Bastian Kubis]

Are there Haydn symphony recordings (on Hyperion) amongst those you ever
bought in the first place? [I'm not suggesting they are all great or
anything, but I quite like the few I bought, relying on Simon's
recommendations back then... And I like the Schumann you keep. ;-) ]

Bastian

[wade]

It would be interesting to know how long the separate miking policy continued and whether the takes used were identical in every case.

[Lena]

On Sep 15, 8:20 pm, jrsnfld <jrsn...@aol.com> wrote:
> On Sep 15, 2:17 pm, Lena <emswo...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > Have you heard Oramo/Stockholm?  Especially revealing textures (and

> > interesting balancing decisions). [...]

>
>
> I don't know that recording...never seen in it my local store. I'll
> keep an eye out for it, given your recommendation.
>

Well, OK -- as long as you don't blame me if you hate it. :)

As a small general caveat, Oramo's Schumann doesn't have the dramatic
cohesion of, say, Bernstein/Vienna. Though for me it more than makes
up for that by its interesting textural takes. (This is not a caveat
really addressed to you, since I have this mild feeling that you're
more than willing to listen for more than one aspect of a composition,
anyway... :) )

These come as two individual CDs. If one gets a chance to choose
between the two, my suggestion, which nobody is mandated to follow, is
to pick up the symphonies 1-2 disc first.

>
> > My old general favorite has been Dohnanyi's set, fwiw.
>
> That's a fine pedigree in Schumann.
>

Thank you. :)

Lena

[Lena]

I'm not Matty, but, nevertheless, I like Goodman's Haydn a lot. The
exuberance is pretty near unmatched, in my Haydn experience. (The
harpsichord in Goodman is also rather unmatched, but never mind
that.) Some other Hanover Band stuff is less interesting to me.

I haven't heard his Schumann, but judging from what people say, I
should try it.

Lena

[M forever]

Like I said, my opinion probably doesn't count because I am already
outed as a big Sinopoli fan and they aren't his most outstanding
recordings, but they are still very nice, rather more lyrical and laid
back than his highly intense 2nd with the WP.

[Matthew�B.�Tepper]

wade <wade...@hotmail.com> appears to have caused the following letters
to be typed in news:d8a17912-036a-4300...@googlegroups.com:

Hmmm, he must have had a faulty filter capacitor or something.

>> > > I won't comment on the other remarks about conductors' performances.
>>
>> > Glad you made a point to tell us that... (?)
>> >
>> > Steve
>>
>> How glad I am to have made you glad.
>>
>> Don Tait
>
> It would be interesting to know how long the separate miking policy
> continued and whether the takes used were identical in every case.

--
Matthew B. Tepper: WWW, science fiction, classical music, ducks!!
Read about "Proty" here: http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/proty.html
To write to me, do for my address what Androcles did for the lion
Opinions expressed here are not necessarily those of my employers.

[John Wiser]

"Lena" <emsw...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:b3911933-91a7-4294...@s8g2000vbc.googlegroups.com...

I'll be the second to profess non-Mattyness and a liking for the Goodman-led
Haydn symphonies, intrusive harpsichord or no. They compare favorably in
effect to the Derek Solomons-led lot lamentably not now available. Probably
the two groups had a large personnel overlap.

Also comparably lively shapely and precise are the Goodman-led performances
of
Berwald's symphonies, with a modern orchestra, not the Hanover Band.
Solomons and Goodman were major assets in HIP performance development,
occasional sloppiness aside.

JDW

[Matthew Silverstein]

On Mon, 17 Sep 2012 10:36:35 +0200, Bastian Kubis wrote:

> Are there Haydn symphony recordings (on Hyperion) amongst those you ever
> bought in the first place? [I'm not suggesting they are all great or
> anything, but I quite like the few I bought, relying on Simon's
> recommendations back then... And I like the Schumann you keep. ;-) ]

You're right! I had forgotten about that. I've kept two of Goodman's Haydn
CDs: 101/102 and the one with 82.

Matty

[jrsnfld]

On Sep 17, 10:09 am, "John Wiser" <ceec...@gmail.com> wrote:
> "Lena" <emswo...@gmail.com> wrote in message

Thanks for mentioning the Berwald. I was wondering about that set. I
don't have a great need for more Berwald recordings at the moment, but
it is a credit to Goodman that he was involved in such a project.

--Jeff

[M forever]

So what do you think about Thielemann's Philharmonia recordings?

[Herman]

I listened to Barenboims Berlin Staatskapelle yesterday, Schumann 3 and 4.

The orchestral sound and the recording is quite enjoyable, but Barenboim fails to bring out mercurial element in Schumann; there's just no bounce to his interpretation.

[Kerrison]

Have any of these sets got the "Original Version" of the Schumann 4th?
Its first recording was made on a 10" Philips LP in the 1950s by
Stanley Pope and the RPO. The sleeve-note states that Schumann himself
revised it and it was that revision that is normally played. However,
Brahms came across the manuscript of the first version and wrote to
Clara Schumann: "Everyone who sees the original manuscript agrees with
me that nothing has been gained in the second revised version. All the
grace, lightness and clarity have been lost." The sleeve-note
continues by saying that saying Brahms then requested Franz Wullner,
an editor of the 'Bach Gesellschaft,' to prepare an edition of the
original manuscript for publication and this he did. Clara however was
"upset" at the publication of the original version, because she'd not
been consulted over it, and anyway felt that Brahms should have done
the editing himself. This is briefly confirmed by a Wiki article ...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Symphony_No._4_(Schumann)

The Philips notes go on to say that Stanley Pope came across a set of
parts for the first version of the 4th in a Lausanne music shop and
that it led to him making its first recording. There is much
discussion not only of the different orchestration but of many
differences in the actual music. There is even a reference to
Schumann's original intention to use a guitar in the 'Romanza.' Now
that would be fun to hear: a Hawaian guitar, perhaps, twanging away in
place of the usual pizzicato strings!

I recall a talk on BBC Radio 3 many years ago discussing similar
differences beetween the original and revised verions of Schumann's
1st Symphony. Clearly it would be useful to know which sets include
which editions and whether there have been other individual recordings
of the 'first versions' of both the 1st and 4th Symphonies.

[Herman]

Le mardi 18 septembre 2012 10:01:35 UTC+2, Kerrison a écrit :


>
> Have any of these sets got the "Original Version" of the Schumann 4th?
>

Gardiner has both versions.

[William Sommerwerck]

>> Have any of these sets got the "original version"

>> of the Schumann 4th?

> Gardiner has both versions.

As does Dausgaard.