What are your favorite recordings of Ma Vlast?
Dan Amodeo
There are a lot of them, and there have been a lot of topics about this. You
could have a look in "the archives" by using Google Groups; I'ld like to advise
you to do so.
I'm not sure about a "favorite". But one you can't go wrong with: Kubelik live
in 1990 on Supraphon.
(snip)
> There are a lot of them, and there have been a lot of topics about this. You
> could have a look in "the archives" by using Google Groups; I'ld like to advise
> you to do so.
>
> I'm not sure about a "favorite". But one you can't go wrong with: Kubelik live
> in 1990 on Supraphon.
Yes, look on Google. For me,nothing and no one compares to Vaclav
Talich/Czech PO on Supraphon in 1954. You're sure to find it. Kubelik
is superb, too. Levine/VPO on DG, also. There are many others I've
never heard.
Don Tait
Karajan sounds as though he didn't really care
about this music. IMO, it's a good thing he recorded
only the Moldau.
This music isn't deep, but it is passionate about
the homeland, something Karajan couldn't identify
with.
Try Kubelik with either Chicago, Boston, or Czech PO.
His last with the Czech PO is considered by many to be
his best, but there is much to recommend the earlier
recordings as well. The Vienna and Bavarian recordings
can be safely avoided.
Talich is, of course, almost self-recommending, despite
the dated sound. Ancerl is also a top contender.
I may be in the minority, but I like Neumann with the
Czech PO quite a bit.
--
--
Kindest regards,
Don
Talich/CzPO (1929)
Talich/CzPO (1941?)
Talich/CzPO (1954)
Kubelik/CzPO (1990)
Mackerras/CzPO (1999)
Kubelik/CSO (1952)
Kubelik/BSO (1971)
Kubelik/BRSO (1984)
Ancerl/CzPO (1963)
Kubelik/VPO (1958)
Those are all that I have, currently, of commercially-issued recordings.
(Somewhere I've got a broadcast somebody once sent me of Kubelik/Cleveland,
probably from the 1960s, and I have my own off-air tape of Slatkin/Minnesota,
made I think in 1984.) Do I really need any others?
I regard "Watkins"-driven opinions as worthless, so don't quote me any.
If you're having only one, and you want it in modern sound, get Kubelik's
last hurrah with his former orchestra. The circumstances are, of course,
special, as Czechoslovakia had regained its independence the previous year.
Kubelik had been quite ill (it was, of all people, Yo-Yo Ma who told me this)
for years, with rheumatoid arthritis, but he did his country proud.
If you can't find that one, and still want modern sound, get the Mackerras.
This is the one I tuned into on the radio a couple of minutes into "Vysehrad"
and became so entranced in the performance that I drove several miles past my
destination and had to double back.
--
Matthew B. Tepper: WWW, science fiction, classical music, ducks!
My personal home page -- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/index.html
My main music page --- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/berlioz.html
To write to me, do for my address what Androcles did for the lion
War is Peace. ** Freedom is Slavery. ** It's all Napster's fault!
> There are a lot of them, and there have been a lot of topics about this.
> You
> could have a look in "the archives" by using Google Groups; I'ld like to
> advise
> you to do so.
You're right. I usually do that first. I'm in a hurry today, and I forgot.
One reason I forgot, though, is that searching Usenet newsgroups on Google
Groups doesn't work very well at all any more.
> I'm not sure about a "favorite". But one you can't go wrong with: Kubelik
> live
> in 1990 on Supraphon.
Thanks, Gerard.
I do too, assuming you mean the live one issued jointly by Denon and Supraphon.
But no live-performance recording can top the incandescent Kubelik/CzPO.
Kubelik/Chicago
Kubelik/Czech Philharmonic
Wit/Polish National SO
Susskind/St. Louis SO - my imprint version.
> (Somewhere I've got a broadcast somebody once sent me of Kubelik/Cleveland,
> probably from the 1960s
9 December 1976, actually. It had been posted on a binaries newsgroup.
> Susskind/St. Louis SO - my imprint version.
Slatkin, in his spoken intro to his Minnesota performance (of which I have a
broadcast tape), says how much he owes to Susskind for his own reading.
I have Wit/Polish National SO/Naxos and like it quite a bit...Karajan's
excerpts are gorgeously played but somehow generic.
Tom Wood
Yes, that's the one, and I heartily agree about the Kubelik.
Bob Harper
Yes, Fluffy's are a tour of a chromium river, aren't they?
Then I must hear it. What is RadioServis and what is its availability?
Well, be that as it may, HvK recorded only two of the six tone poems, so
need not really be considered in recommendations for the complete Ma
Vlast.
There are many fine recordings of Ma Vlast. I rather like
Kubelik/Bavarian Symphony Orchesta (sic) on the Award label. It's
probably been released on other labels too. Wit on Naxos is good. Levine
did a good set with the VPO on D.G.G. There are recommendable recordings
also by Sir Colin Davis and by Sir Charles Mackerras.
It's the label of Czech Radio.
I don't know where it's available other than in the Czech Republic. I
bought my copy when we were in Prague in the summer of '06.
Unfortunately, although the price isn't bad, shipping's pretty high,
making the total 413 CZK, or around $23. I've dealt with these folks in
the past, and service is good and friendly, though not as fast as MDT.
Bob Harper
Which Ancerl/CPO live performance was on Tahra? I don't have the box
handy at the moment...
--Jeff
Among the live recordings I've heard so far, the Kubelik seems to have
everything one could want, but I would love to hear the recent BSO/
Levine performance in better sound someday. The internet broadcast I
heard was easily as good as the Kubelik/Czech Phil. And for a variety
of reasons I probably liked the Kubelik/CSO broadcast just as much,
too.
--Jeff
Dec. 10, 1967 from Salle W. Pelletier in Montral.
Bob Harper
I'm sure that is _not_ what the OP asked.
> (Somewhere I've got a broadcast somebody once sent me of
> Kubelik/Cleveland, probably from the 1960s, and I have my own off-air
> tape of Slatkin/Minnesota, made I think in 1984.) Do I really need
> any others?
>
> I regard "Watkins"-driven opinions as worthless, so don't quote me
> any.
Watkins mentioned the recording of Krombholz at several occasions.
That is a good recording too.
A not so good recording with the Czech. Philh. Orch. is the one made by
Belohlavek; it's "dull". Avoid that one.
>
> There are many fine recordings of Ma Vlast. I rather like
> Kubelik/Bavarian Symphony Orchesta (sic) on the Award label. It's
> probably been released on other labels too.
Odd. Is this the one originally issued on Sony? If so, it
is widely considered the weakest of Kubelik's recordings.
Roger Dettmer thought it lackluster and poorly played...
so slow that it took two CDs.
Berglund/Staatskapelle Dresden on EMI (or Seraphim) is another one I
enjoy.
Macal/Milwaukee Symphony on Telarc is also nice and is very cheap from
Berkshire Record Outlet web store.
The Kubelik Bavarian Radio Orchestra recording was originally on
Orfeo. Its first CD issue was indeed on two discs, back in the days
of the 74 minute limit. It was later issued on a single CD. The
total timing for the Orfeo CD is 77:21 vs. 77:44 for the Czech
Philharmonic issue on Supraphon. Its chief drawback is the distant
miking in the resonant acoustic of the Herkuelessaal, resulting in
somewhat remote orchestral sound. There is no denying the
collaborative sympathy of Kubelik and the BRSO, no matter what one
thinks of their playing style. To me all of the various Kubelik
performances have their own merits, to the point where choosing a
favorite becomes moot.
Mark
1. Smetacek/Czech Phil on Supraphon.
2. Ancerl /Boston SO Summer of 1969 Tanglewood (off air stereo recording)
3. Ancerl / CPO
4. Kubelik / CPO
Pierre Paquin
www.HaydnHouse.com
"Dan Amodeo" <NotMyA...@example.com> wrote in message
news:nUUdj.586$jX4.167@trnddc07...
Hmm, I finally get a good witticism on RMCR, and no one notices. :-(
> I regard "Watkins"-driven opinions as worthless, so don't quote me any.
I missed most of the Hattogate mess. Was Watkins one of the shill/
sockpuppets for Barrington-Crook?
> 1. Smetacek/Czech Phil on Supraphon.
I like that one a lot. I don't think it was menioned yet.
EM
Ancerl (get the 'Gold' edition).
> On Dec 30, 6:14 pm, "Matthew B. Tepper" <oy兀earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>> I regard "Watkins"-driven opinions as worthless, so don't quote me any.
>
> I missed most of the Hattogate mess. Was Watkins one of the shill/
> sockpuppets for Barrington-Crook?
Without a doubt. He was a willing accomplice, shamelessly
shilling the Hatto discs for WBC.
Thank you. Yes, I remember now. It was on Orfeo.
Thanks!
Some people think so. (WB-C has made some remarks in interviews which
suggest that he has been able to read comments in this newsgroup.)
At the very least "Watkins" loved to spin tales of complete blarney about his
claimed experiences as a percussionist in Czechoslovakia; a Münchausen of
music, as it were. His role in Hattogate was his assertion that he was
acquainted with musicians who played in the (nonexistent) orchestra conducted
by "René Köhler."
Remember, Tom Deacon was the principal driving force behind the Hatto mania
in r.m.c.r., leading some of us to suspect that he may have been in on it to
an extent and stood to profit by it in some fashion. Even if he wasn't, it
has severely damaged (perhaps irreparably) his reputation as a piano maven.
> The Historian <neil.the...@gmail.com> appears to have caused the
> following letters to be typed in news:c48f78e5-c49e-4dd4-873b-
> eaf412...@i12g2000prf.googlegroups.com:
>
> > On Dec 30, 6:14 pm, "Matthew B. Tepper" <oyţ@earthlink.net> wrote:
> >
> >> I regard "Watkins"-driven opinions as worthless, so don't quote me any.
> >
> > I missed most of the Hattogate mess. Was Watkins one of the shill/
> > sockpuppets for Barrington-Crook?
>
> Some people think so. (WB-C has made some remarks in interviews which
> suggest that he has been able to read comments in this newsgroup.)
>
> At the very least "Watkins" loved to spin tales of complete blarney about his
> claimed experiences as a percussionist in Czechoslovakia; a Münchausen of
> music, as it were. His role in Hattogate was his assertion that he was
> acquainted with musicians who played in the (nonexistent) orchestra conducted
> by "René Köhler."
I've often wondered if Alan Watkins was really WB-C.
>
> Remember, Tom Deacon was the principal driving force behind the Hatto mania
> in r.m.c.r., leading some of us to suspect that he may have been in on it to
> an extent and stood to profit by it in some fashion. Even if he wasn't, it
> has severely damaged (perhaps irreparably) his reputation as a piano maven.
I think Tom's caustic manner has damaged his reputation worse. When
you regard this group as the equivalent of a female mud-wrestling
match, then your reputation matches that of a female mud-wrestler.
-Owen
> In article <Xns9A174EEC19...@216.168.3.70>, Matthew B.
> Tepper <oyþ@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>> The Historian <neil.the...@gmail.com> appears to have caused the
>> following letters to be typed in news:c48f78e5-c49e-4dd4-873b-
>> eaf412...@i12g2000prf.googlegroups.com:
>>
>> > On Dec 30, 6:14 pm, "Matthew B. Tepper" <oyþ@earthlink.net> wrote:
>> >
>> >> I regard "Watkins"-driven opinions as worthless, so don't quote me
>> >> any.
>> >
>> > I missed most of the Hattogate mess. Was Watkins one of the shill/
>> > sockpuppets for Barrington-Crook?
>>
>> Some people think so. (WB-C has made some remarks in interviews which
>> suggest that he has been able to read comments in this newsgroup.)
>>
>> At the very least "Watkins" loved to spin tales of complete blarney
>> about his claimed experiences as a percussionist in Czechoslovakia; a
>> Münchausen of music, as it were. His role in Hattogate was his
>> assertion that he was acquainted with musicians who played in the
>> (nonexistent) orchestra conducted by "René Köhler."
>
> I've often wondered if Alan Watkins was really WB-C.
>
>>
>> Remember, Tom Deacon was the principal driving force behind the Hatto
>> mania in r.m.c.r., leading some of us to suspect that he may have been
>> in on it to an extent and stood to profit by it in some fashion. Even
>> if he wasn't, it has severely damaged (perhaps irreparably) his
>> reputation as a piano maven.
>
> I think Tom's caustic manner has damaged his reputation worse. When
> you regard this group as the equivalent of a female mud-wrestling
> match, then your reputation matches that of a female mud-wrestler.
Nah -- roller derby.
Speaking of which, Hattogate has already been invoked on the chess
groups as a comparison to what has been come to be called the "Fake
Sam Sloan" lawsuit. Details of the lawsuit are here:
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/10/08/nyregion/08chess.html?ref=nyregion
A Watkins-like nutter named Phil Innes has been conducting a frantic
defense of the accused for months now. Of course, he's bragged for
years he's worked with the accused, but he thinks we've forgotten.
Is this another Ancerl on Tahra?
http://www.mdt.co.uk/MDTSite/product//TAH405-406.htm
ANCERL ENCORES
Radio Philharmonic, Concertgebouw, Czech Philharmonic Orchestras
Haydn: Symphony No. 104 Recorded 7 July 1970, Brahms: Symphony No. 2
Recorded 26 February 1969,
Smetana: My Country Recorded 21 September 1959, Vorisek: Symphony in D
minor Recorded 26 June 1966.
Tahra 2cds TAH405-406
This looks like a wonderful, if expensive, set, as Ancerl and the
Concertgebouw was a great combination. I suspect the 'My Country' refers
to the two popular excerpts, 'Vltava' and 'From Bohemia's Fields and
Streams' because of time considerations, but I don't know that for
certain. It's also likely that the Smetana is mono, given the date.
Bob Harper
"EM" <emmemmme...@gnail.com> wrote in message
news:477903d2$0$24399$5fc...@news.tiscali.nl...
> > http://www.mdt.co.uk/MDTSite/product//TAH405-406.htm
> >
> > ANCERL ENCORES
> > Radio Philharmonic, Concertgebouw, Czech Philharmonic Orchestras
> >
> > Haydn: Symphony No. 104 Recorded 7 July 1970, Brahms: Symphony No. 2
> > Recorded 26 February 1969,
> > Smetana: My Country Recorded 21 September 1959, Vorisek: Symphony in D
> > minor Recorded 26 June 1966.
> >
> > Tahra 2cds TAH405-406
>
> This looks like a wonderful, if expensive, set, as Ancerl and the
> Concertgebouw was a great combination. I suspect the 'My Country' refers
> to the two popular excerpts, 'Vltava' and 'From Bohemia's Fields and
> Streams' because of time considerations, but I don't know that for
> certain. It's also likely that the Smetana is mono, given the date.
Sorry, I just checked the tahra.com site and it's:
Tah 405/406 - Ancerl : « Encores »
Haydn : symphony No. 104 ; Brahms : symphony No. 2 ; Smetana : Ma Patrie
(ext.) and The Bartered Bride Overture ; Vorisek : Symphony
It contains: the first part of a concert in Wellington, New Zealand,
recorded during the world tour of the Czech Philharmonic in 1969
(excerpts from Ma Patrie and Overture of the Bartered Bride) - The
symphony by Vorisek ( Strasburg festival of July 1966) - Haydn's 104th
(recorded in Holland in July 1970) - Stereo recording of the Brahms 2nd
with the Amsterdam Concertgebouw (concert of February 1969)
> Berglund/Staatskapelle Dresden on EMI (or Seraphim) is another one I
> enjoy.
Another vote for the Berglund/SKD. Beautifully played and recorded.
I also like the Talich/CzPO Supraphon recording from the 50s.
Dave Cook
Dan Amodeo
I don't think any of the Kubelik recordings takes two CDs (the Orfeo
issue was actually only one CD). His late CSO broadcast did spill over
80 minutes, though. So does the Matacic broadcast.
Harnoncourt, however, definitely needed two discs, but he's excellent
if unusual.
--Jeff
Could you explain 'how' Harnoncourt is unusual Jeff. I must admit that
Ma Vlast seems slightly unusual territory for him, but I have heard good
reports, but jnothing really specific.
Ray (Dawg) Hall, Taree
More than anything, I felt some of the tempi were unusually slow.
Beyond that I think there may be a few more sophisticated differences
that a musicologist will spot...I'd have to read the liner notes again
to tell you more.
--Jeff