---
Benny K C Lo
PhD candidate
Cancer Research Laboratories
University of Nottingham
Nottingham NG7 2RD, UK
be...@holmes.nott.ac.uk
>Can anyone give me some recommendations for recordings of Schumann's piano
>works, e.g. Carnaval, Scenes from Childhood, Kreisleriana, etc? Thanks!
This is what I replied to a similar question 23 days ago:
"Richter, Egorov and Horowitz always are a safe bet with Schumann.
Also: Maria Grinberg (misc) and Igor Zhukov (beautiful Waldszenen).
Gieseking's live (?) Davidsbündlertänze is still the best I've heard
until now.
I still have to explore Sofronitsky, Neuhaus and Cortot in this
repertoire but I've started to explore Elisso Wirssaladze /
Virsaladze. Very promising. She is one of the greatest living
pianists. Bonus: most of her recordings are made live."
In between I have found Philips GP Cortot I - the faulty one with the
50's Schumann recordings - and I must say: this is very powerful and
at the same time poetic Schumann. Especially the Symphonische Etuden
and Carnaval. I still have to get used to the Kreisleriana. The
multiple wrong notes tend to distract. On the other hand: it *is*
Cortot and I'll always prefer wrong notes to cut-and-paste artistry.
Now I have to find the corrected Cortot I with the '28 '29 '35
Schumann recordings.
Other respondents made a strong case for the EMI Yves Nat Schumann
recordings which I haven't heard yet.
A sleeper I discovered among my lp's is a beautiful Kinderscenen by
Yakov Zak. Quite slow and mesmerizing.
--
Regards, Jan Winter, Amsterdam
(j.wi...@xs4all.nl)
A good set to start with is Nat's 4CD set from EMI. Excellent recordings,
very powerful and moving, sometime a little austere but great. Recordings
are from the 50s, and sound quality is not always great, though. If this is
a problem to you, Lupu might be an interesting recent alternative (not in
the same style, though). I think he recorded Humoreske, Kinderszenen and
Kreisleriana on one CD (Decca), and Carnaval of Vienna on another.
Some works the Nat set lacks: sonatas (though I think the 2nd sonata is
included), and the Davidsbundlertanzen (a pity!).
There is a beautiful Sofronitsky recording of the first sonata on the
Melodya Russian Piano School twofer devoted to him.
Davidsbundler: I like Perahia in those, though I never heard so many
versions of it (not recorded that often).
Third sonata : concert without orchestra: a good version of it is Horowitz
(on the Horowitz plays schumann RCA record). To avoid: El Bacha (I was lured
into this one by a FNAC salesguy: impressive technique, but nothing musical
in his playing...).
Also, I heard praise about the Reine Gianoli recordings. Never bought any
though. Can anyone comment on her Schumann?
Francois
But really for Schumann as for Chopin, it is Cortot, Cortot, Cortot!!
Every good wish,
Yenda
Benny Lo wrote in message <8dupg2$n2j$1...@oyez.ccc.nottingham.ac.uk>...
>Can anyone give me some recommendations for recordings of Schumann's piano
>works, e.g. Carnaval, Scenes from Childhood, Kreisleriana, etc? Thanks!
>
Dimitri
Probably rather a Pleyel, or an Erard. I sort of remember most of the
recordings were done in Salle Adyar, in Paris, which had a pleyel.
Francois
I have a 4 CD set with Wilhelm Kempff on DGG (435 045-2) which I do not
believe has been mentioned thus far(?). I enjoy these performances
(though I am not able to comment on how they compare with the other
recommendations).
Barry Klieger
>Can anyone give me some recommendations for recordings of Schumann's piano
>works, e.g. Carnaval, Scenes from Childhood, Kreisleriana, etc? Thanks!
Carnaval: Claudio Arrau (Philips)
Kinderszenen: Wilhelm Kempff (DG)
Syphonische Etüden: András Schiff (Teldec)
Also one of my favourites is the Piano Quintet with Rubinstein and
Guarneri Qt (RCA).
--runski
I like Kempff's early Schumann recordings, but was disappointed with this
set. It is as if much of the energy, imagination and rhytmic pulse had been
deflated with old age. On the other hand, I love Shura Cherkassky's version
of the Symphonic Etudes, recorded during his 80th birthday recital (although
nobody surpasses Cortot).
Benjo Maso
The Horowitz TV recital is Schumann playing of the highest order.
I also recommend his Sony disc of Schumann which includes
Kreisleriana, the Toccata and a wonderful Kinderszenen.
The Rubinstein Carnaval and Fantasiestuck Op 12 are also self
recommending.
Baldric
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Carnaval-Rachmaninoff, Cortot or Michelangeli.
Fantasie-Richter or Cohen.
Faschingsschwank aus Wien-Michelangeli or Richter
Fantasiestucke-Richter or Cziffra.
Etudes symphoniques-Cortot or Cherkassky
Humoreske-Richter
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Fantasy, Op. 17 (Brendel/Vanguard, Richter, Perahia)
Carnaval (Rubinstein or, if you can find it, Egerov. A pity Sokolov hasn't
made it to CD.)
Humoreske (Richter or Horowitz)
Kreisleriana (Horowitz or Argerich)
Kinderszenen (Horszowski or Argerich)
Symphonic Etudes (Brendel/Vanguard for the published version,
Pollini with the posthumous variations.)
Carnival-Jest of Vienna, Op. 26 (Richter!)
A sporadically available EMI import set,
"Sviatoslav Richter: un portrait",
includes his Fantasy, the Op. 26 and a 2nd Sonata that pretty much blows away
the thin competition.
Today, I'll add Richter's Toccata, the Arabeske from the Horowitz
TV recital, any Rubinstein version of the Fantasiestucke, and the
Noveletten with Block on Pro Piano. Two others may be difficult-to-impossible
to track down: the First Sonata with Grimaud (who was 17 at the
time) and Davidsbundlertanze with Firkusny on Sugano.
-Sol Siegel, Philadelphia, PA
-----------------------------------
"An intellectual: Someone who has been educated beyond the limit of his/her
intelligence." - Arthur C. Clarke
(Remove "junkfree" from the end of my e-mail address to respond.)
The Arrau live Fantasy on Ermitage (from a recital in Ascona) is
tremendous, very spontaneous and romantic in the best sense of the word.
This performance is on a par with Richter's on EMI. Arrau's is coupled
with a brutally brilliant Appasionata.
Regards,
mt
I'm building up her set (nine down, four to go). While you can
probably find better performances of most of the popular works,
the enterprise, taken as a whole, has much to recommend it. Her
playing is always sympathetic to Schumann, and you can't (or
shouldn't) exist on plums alone. She also covers most of the
lesser performed works, as you'd expect on thirteen CDs, though
the timings hark back to LP custom, rather than the well packed
fodder we've now come to expect. This probably makes the set
uneconomic unless you find them second-hand, as I am doing.
(The Arrau Philips set is probably better value new, even at
UK/French prices. Also, I don't want you looking, Francois,
until I've completed my set...)
The various recommendations in this thread have been interesting.
For the sonatas I would put in one for Brautigam (2 separate CDs
on Globe), which I find excellent (as Fanfare did). In addition,
he gives the (three) alternative movements which make
interesting hearing.
Don Petter.
Oops! Just put a Gianoli on and it is over 71 minutes. Memory
ill serves me. Maybe she does pack in a lot more than Arrau.
Needs a one-for-one analysis, which I may be able to undertake
with the help of a piano freak who has all of both sets - watch
this space.
Anyone have all of Demus' cycle, on Nuova Era, for a comparison
there as well? I didn't mention this set, which I am also keen
to complete, liking what I have found so far. (I have always
liked Demus' Schumann, after being introduced to Dichterliebe
via the first DF-D/Demus LP.)
Don P.
An important point with Schumann. While I can live without having recordings
of some of his later piano works, some of his major works (thinking of the
davidsbundsler, and third sonata) are much less recorded than others. In a
record shop, you usually have some 20 kinderszenen versions to choose from,
but only one davidsbundler (sometime none...).
> (The Arrau Philips set is probably better value new, even at
> UK/French prices. Also, I don't want you looking, Francois,
> until I've completed my set...)
>
Gianoli records are not that expensive in France. At the moment, the best
bargain is Nat (fine with me!). Since I bought his 4CD set, a few years ago,
the prices of the EMI sets have been cut to one half...
I have the Carnaval by Arrau (on the performers in comparison series,
together with Cortot and Myra Hess, IIRC). As with other recordings by him
(his Liszt transcendental studies and his Chopin Nocturnes), I was not very
impressed. Compared to Cortot, for instance, who often manage to have all
the voices sound like different instruments, giving the work a lot of its
polyphonic sense, Arrau has everything played in the same tone, which makes
the work sound less clear. Not my cup of tea.
Francois
Your remark has prompted me to listen to my Davidsbundlers en masse, so
to speak, and I give my, perhaps unfairly brief, reactions.
Schiff on Teldec - 1994. Poetic. Interesting also, as the original 1838
version (less repeats, and more fresh and spontaneous, Schiff says in
the notes. Not noticably shorter in overall timing, so you don't feel
short-changed.)
Demus on Nuova Era - 1988. Though I've always liked his Schumann in
isolation, it did sound a bit robust next to some of the others.
Anda on Ermitage - 1965 live. Spontaneous sounding, with much use of
rubato as might be expected live.
Gieseking on Piano Library - 1942 live. Also spontaneous, good contrast
between E and F.
Cortot on M&A - 1937. Interesting, rather than magical as Bryce
Morrison suggests in the notes. (I duck at this point.)
And the winner is? Well, I wouldn't want to be without any of them, and
will certainly add more. If I had to plump, I think it would be Anda,
followed by Gieseking then Schiff.
Don Petter.
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
> > of some of his later piano works, some of his major works (thinking
> of the
> > davidsbundsler, and third sonata) are much less recorded than
others.
> In a
> > record shop, you usually have some 20 kinderszenen versions to
choose
> from,
> > but only one davidsbundler (sometime none...).
> >
(snip)
> And the winner is? Well, I wouldn't want to be without any of them,
and
> will certainly add more. If I had to plump, I think it would be Anda,
> followed by Gieseking then Schiff.
>
> Don Petter.
>
The only Davidsbundler locally available is Kuerti's, on Analekta.
Anybody heard it? I'll probably end up ordering Anda through Berkshire,
but a studio recording might be good too.
John
The only version I have is Perahia (heard others on the radio, not sure
which, though), which is good (as is much of his production), but not great.
Good "sound", quite lively, just not as varied as I would wish.
Francois
The Egorov Kreisleriana has appeared on CD, a single EMI disc
coupled with a couple of Novelettes (?).
Dimitri
John
"Nicolas Hodges" <n...@nicolashodges.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:tM0cOMA7S4B5EwQ$@nicolashodges.demon.co.uk...
> In article <390780...@fas.harvard.edu>, Dimitri Dover
> <ddo...@fas.harvard.edu> writes
> Good to hear, but I've never seen it :-(
> --
> Nic
Ditto the Horowitz Kreisleriana.
Baldric
Have you heard Egorov's of both? Both fantastic (former on CD, latter LP
only, but there's a copy in NHG currently).
--
Nic
Funnily enough, I've just acquired and been listening to the
Rachmaninov Carnaval on a really cheap Brilliant Classsics 5CD set
(Great Pianists of the Century). The sound is not bad enough to spoil
my enjoyment - are there different transfers around? Agree about the
performance as one of the best, anyway.
Don Petter.
Recently acquired the Brilliant Classics Great Pianists set from
Berkshire. An excellent set.
--
Brian Cantin
An advocate of poisonous individualism.
To reply via email, replace "dcantin" with "bcantin".
What did you make of the Rachmaninov quality? Not getting at Andy -
just interested.
Don.
>The number of the Egerov *Kreisleriana* is CDM 7 69527 2.
Should be 69537
>John
>
>> In article <390780...@fas.harvard.edu>, Dimitri Dover
>> <ddo...@fas.harvard.edu> writes
>>
>> >The Egorov Kreisleriana has appeared on CD, a single EMI disc
>> >coupled with a couple of Novelettes (?).
Novelettes op.21 #1 and #8.
--
Regards, Jan Winter, Amsterdam
(j.wi...@xs4all.nl)
Yes, the Carnaval is also available on Philips Great Pianists of
the 20th Century. Don't know how the sound compares though.
> In article <wkvh133...@earthlink.net>,
> Brian Cantin <dca...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> > Recently acquired the Brilliant Classics Great Pianists set from
> > Berkshire. An excellent set.
> What did you make of the Rachmaninov quality? Not getting at Andy -
> just interested.
>
> Don.
The sound is good enough that I can enjoy the playing, which is
marvelous. My expectations are not very high for a recording
from 1929 and I have not heard any other transfers. So, I may
be living in a fools paradise, but I enjoy it.
Brilliant Classics did reduce the noise enough so that it is
not oppresive. They did leave sufficient high frequencies
so as not to sound dull. There is some overload on the
louder passages and significant coloration of the piano
tone. But, overall, the sound is pretty clear and largely
free of the more obnoxoius recording artifacts.
Pretty much what I thought, but better put! It would be a pity if
potential listeners were scared away by an inadvertently damning
reference.
Can anyone complete the picture by giving an actual
Philips/Brilliant/any other transfer comparison?
At some point, you just have to bite the bullet and listen to
the old recordings.
Without the repeat, I assume?
Dimitri
Kevin wrote:
>
> So many great recordings.
>
> Carnaval-Rachmaninoff, Cortot or Michelangeli.
>
> Fantasie-Richter or Cohen.
>
> Faschingsschwank aus Wien-Michelangeli or Richter
>
> Fantasiestucke-Richter or Cziffra.
>
> Etudes symphoniques-Cortot or Cherkassky
>
> Humoreske-Richter
>
> * Sent from AltaVista http://www.altavista.com Where you can also find related Web Pages, Images, Audios, Videos, News, and Shopping. Smart is Beautiful
--
Put a "1" between don and rice to email me. (don1...@excite.com)
the @home.com works just fine without the "1"
As promised, here are the works which are on on Gianoli's 13CD set on
Ades (only available separately) but are not to be found on Arrau's 7CD
Philips set.
Opus ?: Canon for Alexis in A flat
Opus 3: 6 Paganini Studies
Opus 4: 6 Intermezzi
Opus 5: 10 Impromptus on a Theme of Clara Wieck
Opus 7: Toccata in C
Opus 8: Allegro in B minor
Opus 10: 6 Paganini Studies
Opus 14: 3rd Sonata (Concerto without Orchestra)
Opus 32: 4 Pieces
Opus 68: Album for the Young
Opus 72: 4 Fugues
Opus 76: 4 Marches
Opus 99: 14 Bunte Blatter
Opus 118: 3 Sonatas for the Young
Opus 124: 20 Albumblatter
Opus 126: 7 Pieces in fugal form
Opus 133: 5 Gesange der Fruhe
Opus Post: Scherzo in F minor
As regards prices and availability, this is the European position, as I
understand it:
Gianoli - Ades is not at present current as a label, as it has recently
been bought/closed, and may or may not be revived. I saw new copies in
FNAC branches in Paris in November 1999, but not on a trip about a
month ago. Prices, when they were seen, were in the 100-120 FF (10-12
UKP) bracket (each). (Perhaps Francois can enlarge on residual
availability?)
Arrau - no longer in UK catalogue, but still available as an import in
UK, and presumably available on continent, at about 60 UKP.
I hope the above may be helpful to interested parties.
Don Petter.
Gianoli records are a little under 100 FF at the moment in FNAC or the
Virgin Megastore. By French standards, this is a moderately cheap price. For
historical recordings, average prices will fetch between 80 and 120FF, new
stuff from big companies will be aroung 150, and Naxos at 50.
Availability: last year, until Christmas, Gianoli records were very easy to
find, most FNACs had a separate holder for them. Now, they are becoming a
little harder to get, but still do show up in shops (one or two at a time,
not always the same, so I suppose a few round trips to all FNACs in Paris
would make it possible to buy a nearly complete set).
Finally, comments on Gianoli's playing. I finally bought her second sonata
today. Here are a few first impressions. Overall, I do like her playing,
very clear, lot of emphasis on polyphony (which is an important point, to
me, in Schumann), making very meaningful but secondary motives stand out,
lots of contrast and strength (the influence of Nat being very clear here).
She puts a lot of consistence in the work.
A few things I don't like: some kind of tendency (Cortot's influence?) of
accelerating on dotted rythms (the semi quaver being shorter than written),
and of increasing the length of the last beat of each bar (like some kind of
reversed rubato, I don't like it, it cuts the drive...).
But anyway, her sound is beautiful, and her interpretation very expressive
and obvious. Altogether, one of my favourite version of the second sonata.
Francois
So I was about right with the availability. I must hope to find my
missing ones on the next trip, before it is too late. It's a good
excuse to tramp the FNACs (as if I needed one).
>
> Finally, comments on Gianoli's playing. I finally bought her second
sonata
> today. Here are a few first impressions. Overall, I do like her
playing,
> very clear, lot of emphasis on polyphony (which is an important
point, to
> me, in Schumann), making very meaningful but secondary motives stand
out,
> lots of contrast and strength (the influence of Nat being very clear
here).
> She puts a lot of consistence in the work.
>
> A few things I don't like: some kind of tendency (Cortot's
influence?) of
> accelerating on dotted rythms (the semi quaver being shorter than
written),
> and of increasing the length of the last beat of each bar (like some
kind of
> reversed rubato, I don't like it, it cuts the drive...).
>
> But anyway, her sound is beautiful, and her interpretation very
expressive
> and obvious. Altogether, one of my favourite version of the second
sonata.
>
> Francois
>
>
Glad you liked it. As I probably said before, I don't think you will
find a 'bad' performance in her set, even though there may be more
favoured individual interpretations.
Don.