Ameling/Demus: Haydn Lieder Boxset (Brilliant)

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musica_...@hotmail.com

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Feb 23, 2009, 12:24:20 PM2/23/09
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Ameling's original 3-LP Haydn Recital (Philips, 1981) is being
released on Brilliant Classics this month. This is the first complete
CD release AFAIK (a single-CD selection was issued in the early '80s)

3CD Boxset Link:
http://www.mdt.co.uk/MDTSite/product/Brilliant%20Classics/93768.htm


bws.

Otterhouse Rolf

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Feb 23, 2009, 12:31:55 PM2/23/09
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So the ex-Philips stuff is available earlier then told to me...
Expect more. expect much more...

Rolf

JohnGavin

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Feb 23, 2009, 12:39:02 PM2/23/09
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Hopefully more Elly Ameling (especially early Ameling). How about the
Mozart Songs with Demus? To die for.


Gerard

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Feb 23, 2009, 12:46:55 PM2/23/09
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I don't know what is told to you. But Philips stuff has been available on
Brilliant Classics since quite a time.

But ... *what* is told to you?

Prince Myshkin

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Feb 23, 2009, 2:24:22 PM2/23/09
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> > Rolf- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Is this the same stuff coming out on Pentatone soon?

randy...@gmail.com

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Feb 23, 2009, 3:02:40 PM2/23/09
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This is also in the Haydn Edition. I would suspect the licensing for
this item originated with the Haydn Editon project and NOT as part of
any project with the focus on Philips/Universal back catalog items.

number_six

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Feb 23, 2009, 3:54:19 PM2/23/09
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On Feb 23, 9:39 am, JohnGavin <dagd...@comcast.net> wrote:

Ameling and Demus also made a great recording of Schubert's Shepherd
on the Rock. I would have to look to see who the clarinet wrangler
was. Not sure if that was ever out on CD.

Dave Cook

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Feb 23, 2009, 4:21:55 PM2/23/09
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On Feb 23, 12:54 pm, number_six <cyberi...@hotmail.com> wrote:

> Ameling and Demus also made a great recording of Schubert's Shepherd
> on the Rock.  I would have to look to see who the clarinet wrangler
> was.  Not sure if that was ever out on CD.

The clarinetist was Hans Deinzer. It was on a single CD and in "The
Early Ameling" boxed set.

Dave Cook

Alan Cooper

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Feb 23, 2009, 8:21:21 PM2/23/09
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Otterhouse Rolf <compo...@yahoo.com> wrote in
news:8115eae8-54fa-4124...@e24g2000vbe.googlegroups.
com:

I'd love to see the collection of Bach Cantatas cond. by Winschermann back in print.
Missed it the first time around.

AC

number_six

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Feb 23, 2009, 8:51:27 PM2/23/09
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Yes, that's the one; I just dug out my LP copy. I recall this as a
real gem; glad it made it to CD, thanks.

Steve de Mena

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Feb 24, 2009, 4:26:53 AM2/24/09
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The same contents are on a Quadro PentaTone SACD, on 2 disks (priced
as one). 48 songs.

I don't see Brilliant Classics releasing much on CD for the first
time. I doubt they pay for mastering costs.

Steve

musica_...@hotmail.com

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Feb 24, 2009, 4:40:30 AM2/24/09
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On Feb 24, 6:26 am, Steve de Mena <st...@stevedemena.com> wrote:

> musica_call...@hotmail.com wrote:
> > Ameling's original 3-LP Haydn Recital (Philips, 1981) is being
> > released on Brilliant Classics this month. This is the first complete
> > CD release AFAIK (a single-CD selection was issued in the early '80s)

> The same contents are on a Quadro PentaTone SACD, on 2 disks (priced
> as one).  48 songs.
>
> Steve

On Feb 24, 6:26 am, Steve de Mena <st...@stevedemena.com> wrote:


> musica_call...@hotmail.com wrote:
> > Ameling's original 3-LP Haydn Recital (Philips, 1981) is being
> > released on Brilliant Classics this month. This is the first complete
> > CD release AFAIK (a single-CD selection was issued in the early '80s)

> The same contents are on a Quadro PentaTone SACD, on 2 disks (priced
> as one). 48 songs.

Thanks for the info. I didn't know it was available on SACD.

bws.

Otterhouse Rolf

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Feb 24, 2009, 3:27:22 PM2/24/09
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(from people at Universal) That in July licensing of ex-Philips
material would
take off.

Rolf

gggg...@gmail.com

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Oct 27, 2020, 4:08:02 PM10/27/20
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Ameling recorded Mozart's lieder twice--the 1st with Demus on a Seraphim lp.

gggg...@gmail.com

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Oct 27, 2020, 4:09:44 PM10/27/20
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(2020 Youtube upload):

Review: Elly Ameling Sings Haydn Songs

Gerard

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Oct 27, 2020, 4:34:56 PM10/27/20
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Op 2020-10-27 om 21:07 schreef gggg...@gmail.com:
Yes, was on CD. Deutsche harmonia mundi.
Hans Deinzer clarinet.
https://www.amazon.co.jp/-/en/F-Schubert/dp/B000025MYZ

number_six

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Oct 28, 2020, 1:29:28 PM10/28/20
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Subsequent to this 2009 thread, I did acquire that DHM CD. Despite a difference in listed timing (11:21 on the CD versus 11:15 on the RCA LP), I think it is the same recording. The CD also has all of the other songs from that LP.

What the CD does not have are the 12 Landler D 790, played by Demus on the LP.

If that recording is unavailable on CD, does anyone have a recommendation for these German Dances? TIA.

gggg gggg

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Sep 12, 2021, 10:18:11 PMSep 12
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(Recent Y. upload):

Prequels: Before Schubert's Songs There Was...Haydn!

Herman

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Sep 13, 2021, 5:09:36 AMSep 13
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Strictly chronologically speaking that's correct, just like one could say: Before Schubert, there were the... Crusades!

The closer link to Schubert's Lieder (is what they're called) is not even Beethoven, but the countless Lieder composers we have forgotten about.

Hurwitz should really stop making this weird, incorrect musical-historical claims, and just make vids claiming Naeme Järvi is so great, you can't go wrong with Järvi. It's equally untrue, but it's just a matter of taste.

Bob Harper

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Sep 13, 2021, 8:03:05 PMSep 13
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Can anyone name a single work from the standard repertoire of which
Neeme Järvi's recording is generally considered the finest, or even
among the top two or three? I can't.

Bob Harper

Frank Berger

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Sep 13, 2021, 8:10:57 PMSep 13
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When I was at graduate school orientation, Professor Hilton addressed the incoming Ph.D. economics students and said something like, "In high school and before you were all stars.* In college you were all stars. At this level, you can't all be stars. But don't worry, there is plenty of room in the profession for mediocre economists."

*I was an exception. I hadn't been a star student since 5th grade, but got into UCLA and got financial aid via a miracle. There is simply no other explanation.

Bob Harper

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Sep 13, 2021, 8:18:10 PMSep 13
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Maybe your 5th grade teacher wrote a really good recommendation for you
:). I suspect, however, that you are being overly modest about your
qualities.

Bob harper

Frank Berger

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Sep 13, 2021, 9:28:58 PMSep 13
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There was no problem with quality (meaning potential). There was with performance. I got excellent grades my last two years of college. The first two are best forgotten (*).Luckily there are some graduate programs that will give a late bloomer a chance. On the last day of financial aid awards, a prof. from UCLA called to inform me I had been admitted to the program. I said great but I couldn't afford to go without financial aid, which I hadn't bothered to apply for. He said they had an offer out to someone and would offer it to me if it was turned down. It was, and I was the recipient of a supposedly prestigious Chancellor's Teaching Fellowship. 1st and 4th year fellowship (tuition, books, stipend), 2nd and 3d year teaching assistantship. After passing all my Ph.D. qualifying exams, writing a dissertation stumped me and my schooling ended with the 3rd year. They handed me a Master's degree on my way out the door.

*I discovered that by getting good grades my last two years and getting into graduate school, I might avoid dying in a swamp in Vietnam. Motivation is everything.

Frank Berger

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Sep 13, 2021, 9:47:16 PMSep 13
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The Ameling, Demus Haydn songs were all included on Pentatone multi-channel, hybrid SACD in Dec. 2008. Licensed from Decca. Squeezed down to 2 cds. Produced in the Netherlands.
I have that.

https://tinyurl.com/tdus3ba2

Gerard

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Sep 14, 2021, 4:20:31 AMSep 14
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Op 2021-09-14 om 02:02 schreef Bob Harper:
That applies to many conductors. Specially the standard repertoire that
has been recorded billions of times.
Järvi's strong side is the NON-standard repertoire.

Herman

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Sep 14, 2021, 5:36:28 AMSep 14
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At the time Järvi recorded the Prokofiev cycle it hadn't been done a million times. And yet it was signally lacklustre the day is came out. Hurwitz still calls it one of the best.

Gerard

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Sep 14, 2021, 6:40:07 AMSep 14
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Op 2021-09-14 om 11:36 schreef Herman:
But are there 3 better ones?

Herman

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Sep 14, 2021, 6:52:27 AMSep 14
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On Tuesday, September 14, 2021 at 12:40:07 PM UTC+2, Gerard wrote:

> >
> > At the time Järvi recorded the Prokofiev cycle it hadn't been done a million times. And yet it was signally lacklustre the day is came out. Hurwitz still calls it one of the best.
> >
> But are there 3 better ones?

Maybe not in cycle-form.

Gerard

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Sep 14, 2021, 10:23:18 AMSep 14
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Op 2021-09-14 om 12:52 schreef Herman:
Maybe Litton is better? BIS has recently released his recordings in a
box - included the Romeo and Julia suites in a wrong sequence.

gggg gggg

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Sep 14, 2021, 2:00:22 PMSep 14
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According to this:

- {Goethe] persuaded Johann André to write the music forErwin und Elmire, and though André's music has long been forgotten, Mozart's setting of a poem from the play, 'Das Veilchen', features in every Lieder singer's repertoire, as does Grieg's 'Ihr verblühet, süße Rosen' from Opus 48. And so it is with his other Singspiele, composed by the likes of André, Kayser, Corona Schröter and Reichardt: their settings have been forgotten, but individual songs from the works have been rescued from oblivion by Schubert ('Erlkönig' from Die Fischerin , 'Liebe schwärmt auf allen Wegen' from Claudine von Villa Bella ), Wolf ('Es war ein fauler Schäfer' from Jery und Bätely ), Mozart and Grieg ('Das Veilchen' and 'Ihr verblühet, süße Rosen' from Erwin und Elmire, Brahms ('Es rauschet das Wasser' from Jery und Bätely and 'Serenade' fromClaudine von Villa Bella, and many other celebrated composers.

https://www.gresham.ac.uk/lecture/transcript/print/goethe-the-musician-and-his-influence-on-german-song/

raymond....@gmail.com

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Sep 14, 2021, 7:48:36 PMSep 14
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On Tuesday, 14 September 2021 at 19:36:28 UTC+10, Herman wrote:

> > > Can anyone name a single work from the standard repertoire of which
> > > Neeme Järvi's recording is generally considered the finest, or even
> > > among the top two or three? I can't.
> > >
> > > Bob Harper
> > That applies to many conductors. Specially the standard repertoire that
> > has been recorded billions of times.
> > Järvi's strong side is the NON-standard repertoire.
> At the time Järvi recorded the Prokofiev cycle it hadn't been done a million times. And yet it was signally lacklustre the day is came out. Hurwitz still calls it one of the best.

I am still waiting for a Prokofiev symphony cycle that fully satisfies. The problem with Neeme Jarvi's set is that the recording needs more 'weight' and 'fullness'. If the ending of the first movement of the 5th symphony (tam tam, etc.) doesn't blow one away, what is the point?

I find Jarvi's Martinu with the Bamberg SO very good, as is also his Rimsky Korsakov with the RSNO.

Ray Hall, Taree

Frank Berger

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Sep 14, 2021, 10:04:55 PMSep 14
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Kataenko, Weller, Kuchar Rozhdestvensky

Herman

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Sep 14, 2021, 10:46:20 PMSep 14
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On Wednesday, September 15, 2021 at 1:48:36 AM UTC+2, raymond....@gmail.com wrote:
>
>
> I find Jarvi's Martinu with the Bamberg SO very good,

Well, good for you, but I don't. I find it directionless and lacklustre.

gggg gggg

unread,
Sep 14, 2021, 11:50:35 PMSep 14
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On Monday, September 13, 2021 at 2:09:36 AM UTC-7, Herman wrote:
Concerning "... the countless Lieder composers we have forgotten about", does that include Schultz, Reichardt and Zelter?:

- To use the terminology of the second Berlin Song School,
they strove for the simplicity and the poignancy of the volkstiimliche Lied
and not for the ambitious Kunstlied with its demand for professional singers
and accompanists. Of course, such a creed was as much in accord with the
European cultural tendencies that followed in the wake of Rousseau's philoso-
phy as it was with the considered opinion of the foremost German song
composers of that day: J. A. P. Schultz (born 1747), Reichardt (1752),
Mozart, Zelter (1758) and even the young Beethoven.

https://archive.org/stream/goethemusiclisto00ster/goethemusiclisto00ster_djvu.txt

Al Eisner

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Sep 15, 2021, 1:45:32 AMSep 15
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Please define "generally considered the finest" (in the context of
performances) and explain how "generally considered" is determined.
--
Al Eisner

Gerard

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Sep 15, 2021, 9:25:23 AMSep 15
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Op 2021-09-15 om 04:04 schreef Frank Berger:
That's 1, maybe.

Bob Harper

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Sep 15, 2021, 12:38:27 PMSep 15
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By the consensus of informed opinion. That would seem to be obvious. Of
course, none of this is scientific, and you are free to praise to the
heavens his performance of anything he's done. I just don't know of
anything. YMMV.

Bob Harper

Al Eisner

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Sep 16, 2021, 5:52:49 PMSep 16
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You seem to have slightly rephrased the expression without explaining
it, and especially without saying how you or anyone else determines it.
I have no great knowledge of Jarvi's work (I've enjoyed some, but with
no personal comparisons), so I have no stake in ghe question. I suspect
that you are simply trying to back up your own opinion with an appeal
to some sort of vague authority. Can you prove that wrong.

By the way, I find "you are free ..." in this forum (not at all specific
to you) rather obnoxious, as if some sort of permission is being
granted. But I've learned to ignore that. On the above matter,
however, I'm really curious to know how "generally considered" or
"consensus" are defined or (except in rare cases) determined. If
there is no real answer, I don't intend to pursue this further.
--
Al Eisner

Bob Harper

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Sep 16, 2021, 7:21:57 PMSep 16
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Fine. I'd say something about doors hitting certain body parts, but that
would be rude.

Bob Harper

Al Eisner

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Sep 17, 2021, 11:28:07 PMSep 17
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On Thu, 16 Sep 2021, Bob Harper wrote:

> Fine.

As I thought.
--
Al Eisner

number_six

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Sep 18, 2021, 7:08:21 PMSep 18
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Finding no evidence of Demus' D 790 on CD, I'll try Richard Goode on Nonesuch. The Landler are paired with Sonata D 958.
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