Handel's Greatest Oratorio? Not Messiah.
Ralph
Sure this is the season to listen to Handel's Messiah, and I deeply
admire the work, but I don't think it is Handel's greatest oratorio.
IMHO both Saul and Israel in Egypt are more beautiful and sublime works
then the Messiah. What do you think?
Ralph
vha...@hotmail.com
I do like Handel's Messiah very much; but there are some other
oratorios which are quite as beautiful in my view: Solomon, Jephtha,
parts of L'Allegro, il Penseroso ed il Moderato (that last duet..),
and possibly Theodora.
Johannes Roehl
I think they are both very different, or rather, Messiah is different.
It is the most "sacred" of his oratorios, not opera-like as Saul,
Theodora or Belshazzar. Saul may be the most dramatic one of all. But
all of them contain great music, although many are somewhat uneven.
Israel in Egypt falls into that category, IMO. Sure, there are some of
the most powerful and impressive choruses ever, but the whole thing
doesn't hang together terribly well.
For me Messiah is especially impressive, because of it achieves great
expression in spite of the comparably modest scale: (almost) no double
choruses, austere scoring (compared with Saul!). And because the
powerful language from the bible (and Jennens, vain and pompous jerk he
might have been, did a very good job with the libretto) seems almost
timeless compared to the other libretti.
Johannes
Bob Harper
(snip)
> For me Messiah is especially impressive, because of it achieves great
> expression in spite of the comparably modest scale: (almost) no double
> choruses, austere scoring (compared with Saul!). And because the
> powerful language from the bible (and Jennens, vain and pompous jerk he
> might have been, did a very good job with the libretto) seems almost
> timeless compared to the other libretti.
>
> Johannes
Bob Harper
Kip Williams
> And because the
> powerful language from the bible (and Jennens, vain and pompous jerk he
> might have been, did a very good job with the libretto)
I understand that the real work was likely carried out by Mr. Poole,
secretary to Jennens.
Kip W
Thomas Wood
On the secular side, L'Allegro is a great piece, and Alexander's Feast is
argueably the greatest of his odes/oratorios of all.
Tom Wood
"Ralph" <NoS...@semqkz.net> wrote in message
news:Nu2dneLgr6t_XdPU...@earthlink.com...
Harry C
It is not possible to pick a *greatest* Handel oratorio, any more than
it is possible, say, to pick the greatest Mozart piano concerto, or
the greatest Shakespeare play.
Handel fans tend, I think, to downplay "Messiah" simply because it
often unfairly overshadows other masterpieces of comparable stature.
But "Messiah" is, I think, without doubt, *among* the greatest.
My own personal favourite is possibly "Saul" - but it all depends on
what mood I'm in.
While we're on the subject of the great Handel oratorios, I am still
waiting for a recording of "Samson" that comes close to doing justice
to this very great work.
Harry C
William Sommerwerck
It would be more productive to talk about those aspects of unfamiliar
oratorios you especially like.
Kevin N
> On Mon, 22 Dec 2008 09:19:13 +1100, Ralph wrote
> (in article <Nu2dneLgr6t_XdPUnZ2dnUVZ_i2dn...@earthlink.com>):
>
> --
> Cheers!
>
> Terry
Of course they are all masterpieces, but I think Messiah cannot
compete with Saul as a dramatic work, and not with Solomon for its
big, chest-pound choruses; and they all dim in comparison with some of
the operas such as Julius Caesar.
Still I love Messiah very dearly, overplayed as it is. Mr. Handel
could do so much with so little!
Christopher Webber
There's not a single one of his oratorios without great and surprising
beauties, and many of them will doubtless find champions in this thread.
Even such obscure works as "Alexander Balus" pay huge dividends to the
listener.
But if it is "sublimity" you're after, then I think "Jephtha" is the
next to go for (and preferably the Gardiner set amongst more modern
versions: though the antiquated one conducted by Somary with Alexander
Young in the title role remains my personal favourite, and should be
available very cheaply).
--
___________________________
Christopher Webber, Blackheath, London, UK.
http://www.zarzuela.net
A. Brain
news:aWE3l.14809$Ws1....@nlpi064.nbdc.sbc.com...
I have not heard all the oratorios or the operas,
for that matter. "Semele" is wonderful and is
sometimes called an oratorio, but better performed
as an opera.
"Serse" and "Rodelinda" are outstanding operas.
A few years ago, I picked up a box of the Somary
oratorios on Brilliant Classics. I know Somary did
"Jeptha" also, but it's missing from this set. A quick
check of both Arkiv and Amazon show that this
oratorio is not widely available at a reasonable
price, with the Somary gone and others OOP.
--
A. Brain
Remove NOSPAM for email.
Alan Cooper
news:IzV3l.91142$_Y1.1...@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net:
> A few years ago, I picked up a box of the Somary
> oratorios on Brilliant Classics. I know Somary did
> "Jeptha" also, but it's missing from this set. A quick
> check of both Arkiv and Amazon show that this
> oratorio is not widely available at a reasonable
> price, with the Somary gone and others OOP.
The Brilliant box of Somary recordings is still available; see
http://tinyurl.com/a4wt3z . As Mr. Brain says, for some reason Somary's Jephtha
wasn't included in that set. And while it was issued separately on Vanguard CD, that
issue is op. It's well worth having for the great soloists: Young, Forrester, Watts,
and Grist. Having learned the piece with Forrester's Hamor, I find it hard to listen
to a countertenor in the part, even one as fine as Chance (for Gardiner). My own
favorite among Handel's oratorios is Theodora, and Somary's recording of that one is
included in the Brilliant box.
AC
TareeDawg
> "A. Brain" <abr...@NOSPAMatt.net> wrote in
> news:IzV3l.91142$_Y1.1...@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net:
>
>> A few years ago, I picked up a box of the Somary
>> oratorios on Brilliant Classics. I know Somary did
>> "Jeptha" also, but it's missing from this set. A quick
>> check of both Arkiv and Amazon show that this
>> oratorio is not widely available at a reasonable
>> price, with the Somary gone and others OOP.
>
> The Brilliant box of Somary recordings is still available; see
> http://tinyurl.com/a4wt3z .
It is a set that is well worth acquiring imho, for performances that one
wouldn't be able to get nowadays.
> As Mr. Brain says, for some reason Somary's Jephtha
> wasn't included in that set.
Brilliant did issue Jeptha (a 3fer) and which is by Marcus Creed, RIAS
Choir, and Akademie for Alte Musik Berlin. Soloists are John M Ainsley
(t), Michael George(b), Catherine Denley(m-s), Christine Oelze (s), Axel
Koehler(ct) and Julia Gooding (s).
Maybe it is time I gave all these oratorios another whirl, and
especially Jeptha, as I recall it as being quite good.
And while it was issued separately on Vanguard CD, that
> issue is op. It's well worth having for the great soloists: Young, Forrester, Watts,
> and Grist. Having learned the piece with Forrester's Hamor, I find it hard to listen
> to a countertenor in the part, even one as fine as Chance (for Gardiner). My own
> favorite among Handel's oratorios is Theodora, and Somary's recording of that one is
> included in the Brilliant box.
Theodora is a definite delight.
Another Brilliant offering is Handel's Italian Cantatas with Maria
Zadori as soprano, originally issued on Hungaroton, and issued as a 2fer.
Ray (Dawg) Hall, Taree
A. Brain
news:WIY3l.3891$cu....@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
Gardiner's set is available reasonably from
Amazon sellers. I guess maybe the Somary
was available cheap a couple of years ago
when Vanguard was going through some
kind of transition.
Vanguard was one of the best American
labels in the LP days--always good
recordings and pressings. And they had
quite a catalog of classical and pop stuff.
I picked up the Woeldike recording of
Saul, a 1995 CD reissue, a couple of
months ago. I think it was the first
recording of the piece, Vienna 1962.
Anyone know what's going on with
the Vanguard catalog these days?
Recovered Reviewer
> Vanguard was one of the best American
> labels in the LP days--always good
> recordings and pressings. And they had
> quite a catalog of classical and pop stuff.
>
> I picked up the Woeldike recording of
> Saul, a 1995 CD reissue, a couple of
> months ago. I think it was the first
> recording of the piece, Vienna 1962.
>
> Anyone know what's going on with
> the Vanguard catalog these days?
>
Here: It doesn't look very promising, something more for
Tepper to piss and moan about:
\
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vanguard_Records
http://www.vanguardrecords.com/
John Wiser
Jicotea Used Books
Howells NY 10932 0136 USA
cee...@gmail.com
http://www.amazon.com/shops/ceeclef
William Sommerwerck
> http://www.vanguardrecords.com
According to Wikipedia...
"Vanguard Classics was sold after Seymour Solomon's death to Artemis Records
which reactivated the company with new releases by Leon Fleisher and Gil
Shaham. When Artemis folded in 2004 the Vanguard Classics catalogue was sold
to Sheridan Square Entertainment which is licensing the Vanguard Classics
material with no apparent plans to relaunch or reactivate the label."
At least I got a few of the Artemis multi-ch SACDs -- which were reasonably
priced, by the way. I guess that means you can't stay in business unless you
gouge the customer.
A. Brain
news:Q_%3l.43$mE3...@newsfe14.iad...
> "A. Brain" <abr...@NOSPAMatt.net> he ask:
>
>> Vanguard was one of the best American
>> labels in the LP days--always good
>> recordings and pressings. And they had
>> quite a catalog of classical and pop stuff.
>>
>> I picked up the Woeldike recording of
>> Saul, a 1995 CD reissue, a couple of
>> months ago. I think it was the first
>> recording of the piece, Vienna 1962.
>>
>> Anyone know what's going on with
>> the Vanguard catalog these days?
>>
> Here: It doesn't look very promising, something more for
> Tepper to piss and moan about:
> \
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vanguard_Records
>
> http://www.vanguardrecords.com/
Wasn't their Fleisher CD "Two Hands" something
of a bestseller? And they could have re-packaged
it with the video of the same name and perhaps had
a nice little side business of classical and along with
their rich catalogue of historical recordings....
Al Eisner
> A few years ago, I picked up a box of the Somary
> oratorios on Brilliant Classics. I know Somary did
> "Jeptha" also, but it's missing from this set. A quick
> check of both Arkiv and Amazon show that this
> oratorio is not widely available at a reasonable
> price, with the Somary gone and others OOP.
Berkshire sells a 40-CD Handel box with various conductors for $39.60.
This includes Jephtha. I can't say anything about performances.
--
Al Eisner
lastdu...@gmail.com
lastdu...@gmail.com
Terry
Rodrigo de Salvo Braz
Rodrigo
