Sir Edward German - pronunciation

Russ (not Martha)

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Aug 30, 2015, 2:44:46 PM8/30/15

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Anyone know for sure how to pronounce the surname of the composer of 'Henry VIII?'

Is it 'German' as in 'Germany' - or with a hard 'G' as in 'Gerhardt?"

TIA

Russ (not Martha)

JohnA

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Aug 30, 2015, 4:17:36 PM8/30/15

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EDD-wurd JUR-munn

Christopher Webber

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Aug 30, 2015, 5:43:26 PM8/30/15

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On 30/08/2015 21:17, JohnA wrote:
> EDD-wurd JUR-munn

*SUR* EDD-wurd JUR-munn, pleeeze!

Another seriously underrated composer: 'Tom Jones' in particular well
merits a full-scale stage revival.

drh8h

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Aug 30, 2015, 10:07:38 PM8/30/15

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I recently heard the name pronounced Gher-munn on American radio. Don't remember if it was a syndicated program or local public radio, but it caught my attention at the time.

Russ (not Martha)

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Aug 30, 2015, 11:04:16 PM8/30/15

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Once again, you want something done right, do it yourself.

This, from the Naxos website:

"[The composer was]born in the Shropshire market town of Whitchurch, and christened German Edward Jones (the G being pronounced hard in an anglicisation of the Welsh name Garmon - a mark of his Welsh ancestry . . . "

Thanks, Russ, I knew I could depend on you.

Christopher Webber

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Aug 31, 2015, 3:38:32 AM8/31/15

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On 31/08/2015 04:04, Russ (not Martha) wrote:
> This, from the Naxos website:
>
> "[The composer was]born in the Shropshire market town of Whitchurch, and christened German Edward Jones (the G being pronounced hard in an anglicisation of the Welsh name Garmon - a mark of his Welsh ancestry . . ."
>
> Thanks, Russ, I knew I could depend on you.

I don't know anyone who's ever suggested that the G should be pronounced
hard, at least once he "made the change" and decided it was to be his
professional surname. Nor have I heard anyone in the UK pronounce it
that way, on BBC Radio 3 or elsewhere. David Russell Hulme makes no such
suggestion in his excellent OUP Grove article.

Christopher Webber

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Aug 31, 2015, 3:44:15 AM8/31/15

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On 31/08/2015 08:38, Christopher Webber wrote:
> I don't know anyone who's ever suggested that the G should be pronounced
> hard, at least once he "made the change" and decided it was to be his
> professional surname. Nor have I heard anyone in the UK pronounce it
> that way, on BBC Radio 3 or elsewhere. David Russell Hulme makes no such
> suggestion in his excellent OUP Grove article.

And as a follow-up to myself, I recall that A. M. Thompson ("Dangle")
mentions in his superb autobiography ("Here I lie") that German wondered
about changing his name around the time of World War One, due to
anti-German feeling which "suspected" his ancestry. This makes it clear
that the composer himself thought of his professional name as utilising
the soft G - and, as I say, I have never heard anyone pronounce it hard,
or suggest that it should be.

Remember that he changed it in the first place, in order to sound *more*
German, like a good 19th c. composer ought to be!

So no, Russ - there can be no doubt on the matter. A soft G is correct.

Terry

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Aug 31, 2015, 10:18:00 AM8/31/15

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Like a person from Germany. Never heard it pronounced otherwise.

Norman Schwartz

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Sep 1, 2015, 1:01:28 PM9/1/15

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I thought that might be Sir Edward Doitchland.

(That spelling can be Googled.)

Paul Penna

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Sep 1, 2015, 1:30:03 PM9/1/15

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In article <ea2c4380-5f65-4e3d...@googlegroups.com>,

FWIW, in Greene's Biographical Encyclopedia of Composers (1985), David
Mason Greene has "(pronounced "Gur-man")" in his entry for German (link
to page 895 in Google Books: http://tinyurl.com/qyqok97)

jserr...@gmail.com

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Sep 2, 2015, 7:07:19 PM9/2/15

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bNo5-YecMbM

davidrus...@gmail.com

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Sep 30, 2017, 3:10:25 AM9/30/17

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German with a hard G is the correct pronunciation of the composer's name in its original form as German Edward Jones. There is reliable evidence confirming this. However, nothing tells us if the composer intended a hard or soft G when he he first rearranged his name for professional purposed, but the soft G would have been assumed by anyone reading it and this bacame standard.

David Russell Hulme.

Gerald Martin

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Oct 1, 2017, 1:48:20 AM10/1/17

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I only know German for his rarely recorded (Arthur Fiedler, mono) Henry VIII Dances; but I like them very much.

Message has been deleted

rvmor...@gmail.com

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Dec 31, 2018, 12:55:58 PM12/31/18

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On Sunday, August 30, 2015 at 1:44:46 PM UTC-5, Russ (not Martha) wrote:

I just heard the announcer on WFMT assert that German changed the pronunciation of his name after WWI in response to the unpopularity of all things "German.". So, which is it? Is the Welsh pronunciation really with a hard "G"? Or does a famous composer in his mid-fifties attempt to get people to pronounce his name a new way after his career has essentially ended? Also, I have the 1985 edition of the Greene book in hand. There is no pronunciation given in the entry devoted to German. Thus the online pronunciation referred to in this thread was added later. One would think that the Britannica might have mentioned the unusual pronunciation of his name if it were a question. According to Grove's, he was known as Edward Jones until, at the RAM, he changed his name to avoid being confused with another student of that name, thereafter utilizing his middle name as his surname. In our own time the pop artist Prince announced his desire to have people refer to him by a symbol of his own making, and the result was that everyone for a time referred to him as "the artist formerly known as Prince." So, if German made a serious attempt to change what he was called, would there not be some written record of it? Did he make a public announcement about it? Or was it something he only pondered? Or mentioned in passing to a few friends, but never did anything about?