Grigory Sokolov refuses award because it has previously been won by Norman Lebrecht

[Gerard]

http://www.gramophone.co.uk/classical-music-news/grigory-sokolov-refuses-award-previously-been-won-by-norman-lebrecht

[Christopher Webber]

On 28/09/2015 16:11, Gerard wrote:
>
> http://www.gramophone.co.uk/classical-music-news/grigory-sokolov-refuses-award-previously-been-won-by-norman-lebrecht

Here's the Lebrecht blog (from 2013) which apparently offended Mr Sokolov:

‘The prodigious and articulate pianist James Rhodes has written a lively
tribute in the Spectator magazine to the eccentric Russian pianist
Grigory Sokolov, who lives in Madrid. James calls him ‘the greatest
living pianist’, an appellation that is hard to prove since Sokolov
makes few recordings, lives a sheltered life and doesn’t go out much.

‘He especially won’t go to London since that would mean attending the
consulate in person in order to obtain a visa.

‘That is something most of us have to do to go to Russia, China and many
other countries, so I can’t offer him more than a modicum of sympathy
and a further dash of regret that I won’t be hearing him any time soon.
I hope he will sympathise with me in return for having to spend the
rest of my life listening to the also-rans.

‘Somehow, I just don’t buy that ‘greatest’ thing when it cannot be
tested in the same international conditions in which others are judged.’

[Tony]

> tested in the same international conditions in which others are judged.'

I doubt it was that. If you attend a Sokolov recital, you get the sense he wouldn't give a toss about Lebrecht's opinion.

The offending matter is more likely that Lebrecht said something about Sokolov's late wife. Remember the letter Sokolov published after his wife passed? It was mysterious at the time, and I'm not sure if it's ever been determined as to who he was addressing.

In any case, he's the greatest.

[Christopher Webber]

On 28/09/2015 17:21, Tony wrote:
> I doubt it was that.

Classical Music Magazine agrees with me, that it was this blog post
which caused the trouble.

[Herman]

On Monday, September 28, 2015 at 5:34:14 PM UTC+2, Christopher Webber wrote:
> On 28/09/2015 16:11, Gerard wrote:
> >
> > http://www.gramophone.co.uk/classical-music-news/grigory-sokolov-refuses-award-previously-been-won-by-norman-lebrecht
>
> Here's the Lebrecht blog (from 2013) which apparently offended Mr Sokolov:
>
> 'The prodigious and articulate pianist James Rhodes has written a lively
> tribute in the Spectator magazine to the eccentric Russian pianist
> Grigory Sokolov, who lives in Madrid. James calls him 'the greatest
> living pianist', an appellation that is hard to prove since Sokolov
> makes few recordings, lives a sheltered life and doesn't go out much.
>

what's an "appelation" outside the wine business?

in the case of Sokolov all you have to do is go to one of his recitals.

[Tony]

And what? Just some meaningless luck for you. They are most likely taking as blind a grasp as you are. Yes it's possible Sokolov was grievously offended by Lebrecht's refusal to name him as the greatest living pianist. But it's totally improbable. Just attend some recitals and that's positively clear.

[Steven Bornfeld]

On 9/28/2015 1:40 PM, Tony wrote:
>
> And what? Just some meaningless luck for you. They are most likely taking as blind a grasp as you are.

Yes it's possible Sokolov was grievously offended by Lebrecht's
refusal to name him as the greatest living

pianist. But it's totally improbable. Just attend some recitals and
that's positively clear.
>

You don't honestly mean to propose there is a consensus on this? That's
Rolling Stone stuff.

Steve

[Christopher Webber]

On 28/09/2015 18:40, Tony wrote:
> And what? Just some meaningless luck for you. They are most likely taking as blind a grasp as you are.

What's "blind" about my posting, or Classical Music Magazine's alighting
on it also? No "meaningless luck" involved, either: I happened to
remember reading the comment, when researching something for an article
on James Rhodes. CMM probably Googled it.

If you have an idea of alternative blog of Lebrecht's which may have
provoked the ire of this pianist, please suggest it. Not that it matters
much, of course. This sort of egotistical spat is tiresomely common.

[arri bachrach]

> tested in the same international conditions in which others are judged.'

can't say if he is the 'greatest pianist' but there are vefy few who can match his talents judging by all the 'pirates' out there.

AB

[arri bachrach]

going to hear hiim once is not enough to affirm his greatness...... I heard him in NYC about 10 or more years ago and i was very disappointed. One has to hear many recitals to hear his huge talent. At his best, he is very great..

AB

[arri bachrach]

there are things he does that no other pianist can do....... one hears that in his many recorded recitals and other times he is disappointing.
When he played in NYC,he played on a shit piano which I think may have affected his playing.

AB

AB

[Steven Bornfeld]

On 9/28/2015 2:53 PM, arri bachrach wrote:
>
> there are things he does that no other pianist can do....... one hears that in his many recorded recitals

and other times he is disappointing.
> When he played in NYC,he played on a shit piano which I think may have affected his playing.
>
> AB

Fair enough.

Steve

[Christopher Webber]

On 28/09/2015 18:28, Herman wrote:
> what's an "appelation" outside the wine business?

I'm no fan of Lebrecht, but he's using the word (more or less) correctly.

But what has "appellation" [sic.] got to do with wine, Herman? Am I
missing some humorous sally here?

> in the case of Sokolov all you have to do is go to one of his recitals.

No thank you. I'm repertory-driven, not performer-driven in my concert
choices; and Mr Sokolov's repertoire is very small and limited, in the
old-fashioned "patrician pianist" mold. It is also very short on 20th or
21st century material.

His comment on why he doesn't like to play concertos these days is
certainly revealing of his mindset: whereas the great majority of good
musicians enjoy sparking off other people's ideas, he clearly has his
own and doesn't like them challenged. ("I very much like the fact that
everything I make depends only on me".)

In any case, his refusal to play in England means I'm unlikely be faced
with any choice at all.

[Tony]

The ego is entirely on your side in thinking that Sokolov's annoyance may have come from a BLOG post. It says a lot more about you than either Lebrecht or Sokolov. For all we know they may have had a private correspondence which turned sour.

How often does Sokolov go public with anything? For such a private and circumspect man to publicly name Lebrecht as a deterrent, it must have been something pretty bad. It's a wonder you are even interested in music when you want to persist in reducing such a pianist to a figure of an irascible child who gets offended by one negative comment. Ridiculous.

Back in '05, on the afternoon of a Sokolov recital, I wandered around the inside of Bozar with a friend. We found an open door into the hall and Sokolov was alone in near darkness, obsessively playing through a passage of one of the Chopin Impromptus, hearing something that neither one of us could. Zero exposure is what you must have of this pianist if you can't understand why I said blind.

[Tony]

Sokolov might be taking offence at Lebrecht's creation of the Sokolov family tree. Anyone around last year will remember when Sokolov's wife passed away. He published a mysterious letter which can be read in translation here:

http://www.amcmusic.com/letter-of-grigory-sokolov-translation-in-english-by-b-monsaingeon/

Go over to Lebrecht's blog entry and half way down is his 'Update' about Sokolov marrying his dead cousin's wife:

http://slippedisc.com/2014/01/sad-news-greatest-living-pianist-loses-his-wife/

Click any of the links at the bottom and you'll see a message about Lebrecht.

That website is the former address of grigory-sokolov.com

It's possible Sokolov felt compelled to respond to Lebrecht's BS to protect the memory of his wife and family. That would explain why he won't associate with someone who's basically a hack.

Whatever the reason he declined the prize, it's almost certainly not the reason Christopher senselessly thinks it is.

[timwill...@gmail.com]

Op maandag 28 september 2015 17:11:45 UTC+2 schreef Gerard:
> http://www.gramophone.co.uk/classical-music-news/grigory-sokolov-refuses-award-previously-been-won-by-norman-lebrecht

What have Norman Lebrecht and Sokolov in common that they can be nominated for the same award?

TH

[Christopher Webber]

On 28/09/2015 21:41, timwill...@gmail.com wrote:
> What have Norman Lebrecht and Sokolov in common that they can be nominated for the same award?

Some of the posts in this thread seem to me to provide the answer!

[Christopher Webber]

On 28/09/2015 21:00, Tony wrote:
> Whatever the reason he declined the prize, it's almost certainly not the reason Christopher senselessly thinks it is.

We know the reason he gave for declining the prize - from his own letter
to Cremona. That reason was his contempt for another laureate, Norman
Lebrecht. What we are trying to ascertain is the cause of the contempt.

There is something creepy about the way (somebody) has chosen to attack
Lebrecht's message of condolence about the death of Sokolov's wife, by
providing those nasty links - and certainly nothing to justify such
vitriol in Lebrecht's brief, 2014 posting itself.

Thank you, though, for turning up this 2014 blog. Yet unlike Lebrecht's
2013 effort, it says nothing snide about Sokolov at all. Rather the
reverse, in offering him condolences on his loss. Altogether this adds
weight to my feeling (shared with CMM) that those 2013 blog comments
were responsible for the pianist's ill-feeling.

I find your bizarre anecdote about Sokolov creepy, too, and not at all
inspiring. It does nothing to make me more curious about him, or about
his music-making. Though to be fair, one shouldn't judge him on your
quasi-mystical interpretation of what you saw.

You have a strange way of trying to communicate your enthusiasm, by
insulting people who don't share it! I'm afraid Mr Sokolov certainly
isn't going on my play list: quite aside from your hack-and-slash
championing, his repertoire is far too conventional and impersonal to
interest me.

[Christopher Webber]

Gramophone have now updated their news article, with some correspondence
from the (evidently baffled) Cremona people: it's clear that as late as
last month, the pianist's manager was under the impression that Sokolov
was going to accept it, already knowing about Lebrecht's prior award.

As Alice would have said, "Curiouser and curiouser..."

-------
'Maestro Sokolov sent us a letter to refuse the prize, justifying this
choice with the presence of Norman Lebrecht among the people awarded in
2014.

'We don't want to discuss the personal relationship between Maestro
Sokolov and Norman Lebrecht; we are just very sorry about Sokolov's
choice, especially considering that Franco Panozzo, Sokolov's manager,
sent us an email on August 4, 2015, saying that Maestro Sokolov would
have been very happy to come to Cremona to receive the prize, if he had
been in Italy during Cremona Mondomusica. We also have to say that
before that (June 29, 2015) we informed Franco Panozzo about the people
awarded in 2014, Norman Lebrecht included.

'So we have been surprised that just a few days before the prize-giving
ceremony Maestro Sokolov took this decision.'
-------

[Lionel Tacchini]

On 28.09.2015 20:44, Christopher Webber wrote:
> If you have an idea of alternative blog of Lebrecht's which may have
> provoked the ire of this pianist, please suggest it. Not that it matters
> much, of course. This sort of egotistical spat is tiresomely common.

I have a very clear idea of it. Being lumped into a category including
that fool catcher is an offence in itself. Any pianist with both a sense
of judgement and pride would feel diminished at the proposal.

--
Lionel Tacchini

[Tony]

On Tuesday, September 29, 2015 at 1:59:20 AM UTC+3, Christopher Webber wrote:
>
> Thank you, though, for turning up this 2014 blog. Yet unlike Lebrecht's
> 2013 effort, it says nothing snide about Sokolov at all. Rather the
> reverse, in offering him condolences on his loss.

You've obviously missed the insult in needlessly speculating and gossiping about Sokolov's recently dead wife, someone and a situation he didn't know anything about. Lebrecht's approach wasn't one of reportage. It was tabloid journalism. Enjoy it if it appeals to you, but the insult is there.

> his repertoire is far too conventional and impersonal to interest me.

Yet you seem interested enough in him. On the one hand his limited taste is far too beneath you; on the other you're the first to post and to belittle him as an egotistical prima donna who can't handle one blog post. Your whole passive-aggressive behaviour is repugnant.

[Christopher Webber]

On 29/09/2015 05:58, Tony wrote:
> You've obviously missed the insult in needlessly speculating and gossiping about Sokolov's recently dead wife, someone and a situation he didn't know anything about. Lebrecht's approach wasn't one of reportage. It was tabloid journalism. Enjoy it if it appeals to you, but the insult is there.

That's your interpretation of Lebrecht's words. I have absolutely no
time for the man, who is indeed a gossip; but that doesn't mean that I
believe that everything he says has malicious intent, or that he is
always wrong. Have you considered that you may be allowing your
admiration for the pianist's work to cloud your judgement?

As for Sokolov himself:

> Yet you seem interested enough in him. On the one hand his limited taste is far too beneath you; on the other you're the first to post and to belittle him as an egotistical prima donna who can't handle one blog post. Your whole passive-aggressive behaviour is repugnant.

Passive-aggressive? Please have the courtesy to accept, that I am not
concerned with the curious mindset of this Russian pianist, or with his
work - or indeed with you. Not because any of these matters are "beneath
me" (your words) but because they are outside my musical interests. And
even if I were keen to learn more, I can't hear him perform, because he
refuses to play in the United Kingdom.

(I did not start this thread, you know. I offered Gerard - who did - the
text of the 2013 Lebrecht blog post, in explanation of Mr Sokolov's ire.
And that, at any rate, is my last word to you on this trivial matter.)

[Tony]

On Tuesday, September 29, 2015 at 11:51:07 AM UTC+3, Christopher Webber wrote:
>
> (I did not start this thread, you know...)

Of course it was far worse than that. You rushed in with an assumption, 'which apparently offended Mr Sokolov', a pianist you haven't heard and have made it clear you don't want to hear. No thought involved, just a certain assurance because a classical magazine, which guessed as blindly as you did, came up with the same negative opinion about someone you know nothing about (and apparently they know nothing about too). If you don't want to be treated discourteously, then don't prance about doing the same to others first.

[Christopher Webber]

On 29/09/2015 11:12, Tony wrote:
> Of course it was far worse than that. You rushed in with an assumption, 'which apparently offended Mr Sokolov', a pianist you haven't heard and have made it clear you don't want to hear. No thought involved, just a certain assurance because a classical magazine, which guessed as blindly as you did, came up with the same negative opinion about someone you know nothing about (and apparently they know nothing about too). If you don't want to be treated discourteously, then don't prance about doing the same to others first.

The clue is in the word "apparently". But I ought to remember that
fundamentalists are not worth trying to reason with. Farewell!

[cn_c...@runbox.com]

Funny that Lebrecht hasn't posted this news on his blog. He usually loves anything controversial.

[dk]

Or musicologists .... ;-)

dk

[Christopher Webber]

On 29/09/2015 19:06, cn_c...@runbox.com wrote:
> Funny that Lebrecht hasn't posted this news on his blog. He usually loves anything controversial.

Except, of course, where he himself is the news! Like all gossips, he
gets tetchy, when he himself is the subject of it.

Or perhaps he's as mystified by Sokolov's over-reaction as anyone else.
Such a grand gesture seems to credit Lebrecht with an inflated
importance and standing in the art music world which he simply doesn't have.

[timwill...@gmail.com]

Op dinsdag 29 september 2015 00:25:40 UTC+2 schreef Christopher Webber:

> On 28/09/2015 21:41, timwill...@gmail.com wrote:
> > What have Norman Lebrecht and Sokolov in common that they can be nominated for the same award?
>
> Some of the posts in this thread seem to me to provide the answer!

?

[Lionel Tacchini]

On 29.09.2015 20:36, Christopher Webber wrote:
> Such a grand gesture seems to credit Lebrecht with an inflated
> importance and standing in the art music world which he simply doesn't
> have.

When the lion refuses to stand next to the ass, it does make the ass
look a little more important indeed.

--
Lionel Tacchini

[Tony]

It seems I was right about this, as the links at the bottom of Lebrecht's 'Sad news' post that go to the old Sokolov website have now been elaborated on

[O]

In article <mufss3$jra$1...@gwaiyur.mb-net.net>, Lionel Tacchini

Or, to paraphrase Groucho: "I refuse to belong to any club which
lowers itself enough to allow LeBrecht to be a member."

-Owen

[Fred]

On Monday, 28 September 2015 16:34:14 UTC+1, Christopher Webber wrote:
> On 28/09/2015 16:11, Gerard wrote:
> >
> > http://www.gramophone.co.uk/classical-music-news/grigory-sokolov-refuses-award-previously-been-won-by-norman-lebrecht
>

> Here's the Lebrecht blog (from 2013) which apparently offended Mr Sokolov:
>
Sokolov lives in Italy. Typical Lebrecht - careless with facts.

This was the offending post. It's been edited to remove the aunt reference. (see comments)

http://slippedisc.com/2014/01/sad-news-greatest-living-pianist-loses-his-wife/

[Fred]

On Monday, 28 September 2015 20:03:40 UTC+1, Christopher Webber wrote:

>
> No thank you. I'm repertory-driven, not performer-driven in my concert
> choices; and Mr Sokolov's repertoire is very small and limited, in the
> old-fashioned "patrician pianist" mold. It is also very short on 20th or
> 21st century material.
>

How do you define 'very small' and limited. Michelangeli had a limited repertoire for sure. Sokolov changes his programme twice a year. He might not have the breadth of an Ogdon or Richter but has played more works than many other pianists I can think of,.

[Fred]

On Tuesday, 29 September 2015 09:51:07 UTC+1, Christopher Webber wrote:
And
> even if I were keen to learn more, I can't hear him perform, because he
> refuses to play in the United Kingdom.
>

Are you banned from travelling? Or too poor to afford 60 quid on the easyjet ?

[laraine]

Ah, that explains it more now.
Right, one just doesn't write things like that, esp. without researching
to be sure.

C.

[laraine]

On Tuesday, September 29, 2015 at 1:36:35 PM UTC-5, Christopher Webber wrote:

OK, Lebrecht has an article about it now --
His response: The pianist is entitled to choose the company he keeps.
Nobody is loved by everyone.

http://slippedisc.com/2015/09/a-pianist-spat/

C.

[O]

In article <8ec77545-87fe-4f80...@googlegroups.com>,

Rather terse response from LeBrecht - two sentences. Not as effusive
when he dithers in other people's troubles.

-Owen

Lady at party: "I made a bet I could get you to say more than three
words."
Calvin Coolidge: "You lose."

[laraine]

On Wednesday, September 30, 2015 at 3:16:22 PM UTC-5, O wrote:
> In article

He did actually write more than that, but for some reason,
didn't mention Sokolov's name.

And there's a link to the Cremona award, which Lebrecht won
in a "Communication" category, as opposed to a Performance
category.

C.

[max197...@gmail.com]

I.e. Lebrecht's genealogical 'proof' is a red herring covering for his earlier remark.

[Al Eisner]

But you've managed to entirely remove the humor from Groucho's
remark. That's not like you!
--
Al Eisner

[O]

In article
<alpine.LRH.2.00.1...@iris02.slac.stanford.edu>, Al

I assume everyone has heard Groucho's oft-quoted original (perhaps his
most notorious remark? No - I once shot an elephant in my pajamas is.)
but the paraphrase probably sums up how Sokolov feels.

-Owen