"Top 10 Mahler symphony recordings" (recent article)

[jjjjjjj...@gmail.com]

http://www.gramophone.co.uk/feature/top-10-mahler-symphony-recordings

[Matthew Silverstein]

On Tuesday, August 30, 2016 at 1:01:18 PM UTC+4, jjjjjjj...@gmail.com wrote:
> http://www.gramophone.co.uk/feature/top-10-mahler-symphony-recordings

The love affair with Rattle is predictable yet still disappointing. Rattle/Berlin as the top choice for Mahler 2? Ugh.

Matty

[leg rivers@hitmeonce.com]

wodent choose any of them
no 1 horenstein
no2 walter
no3 horenstein
no4 horenstein
no5 walter
no6 horenstein
no 7 horenstein
no8 horenstein
no9 horenstein
no10 morris

[Herman]

On Tuesday, August 30, 2016 at 11:01:18 AM UTC+2, jjjjjjj...@gmail.com wrote:
> http://www.gramophone.co.uk/feature/top-10-mahler-symphony-recordings

What? Only three by Simon Rattle?

[Mark Zimmer]

On Tuesday, August 30, 2016 at 4:01:18 AM UTC-5, jjjjjjj...@gmail.com wrote:
> http://www.gramophone.co.uk/feature/top-10-mahler-symphony-recordings

I'm OK with some of these. Kubelik on the 1st would be my choice as well; Abbado's 6th is certainly in the running. Rattle can have the 10th, if you count it.

[O]

In article <29198400-d10c-4e4e...@googlegroups.com>,

Yeah, that Rattle! Who'd a thought he was so good?

-Owen, only Gramophone!

[O]

In article <eSexz.726537$SA.4...@fx44.am4>, < riv...@hitmeonce.com>
wrote:

Who slipped that morris in there with all the horensteins and walters?

-Owen

[Matthew Silverstein]

On Tuesday, August 30, 2016 at 6:31:12 PM UTC+4, Mark Zimmer wrote:

> I'm OK with some of these. Kubelik on the 1st would be my choice as well;
> Abbado's 6th is certainly in the running. Rattle can have the 10th, if you count
> it.

I agree about Kubelik in 1, and I'm fine with Rattle in 10 (although I don't really care about 10). Coming up with my own list today was excruciating, since I have so many favorites. Here's how it turned out::

1: Kubelik/BRSO (DG)
2: MTT/SFSO (Avie)
3: Bernstein/NYPO (DG)
4: Gatti/RPO (Conifer)
5: Abbado/BPO (DG)
6: Bernstein/VPO (DG)
7: Bernstein/NYPO (Sony)
8: Sinopoli/Philharmonia (DG)
9: Sanderling/BBC Phil (BBC)
Das Lied: Klemperer/Philharmonia (EMI)

The choices for 2, 4, 5, and 6 were especially difficult, and I easily could have gone another way for each of them.

Matty

[jrsnfld]

Just as noticeable is the lingering love affair with Barbirolli, whose recordings are not reviewed but nonetheless are natural touchstones for the reviewers comments about others.

Nonetheless, there are some useful comments dispersed in the reviews, and I particularly liked Edward Seckerson's comment about how Tennstedt can almost "convince me that impetus has nothing to do with speed." This is a good way of phrasing one of the points made about Tennstedt in the other Mahler thread currently in progress on rmcr.

--Jeff

[graham]

On 8/30/2016 3:01 AM, jjjjjjj...@gmail.com wrote:
> http://www.gramophone.co.uk/feature/top-10-mahler-symphony-recordings
>
Let's face it, if recordings were available with Mahler conducting,
there would still be disagreements here as to which other conductor
reflected the true essence of these works.
Graham

[Frank Berger]

I imprinted on Scherchen in #2 and no one else has sounded
quite right to me.

---
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[Frank Berger]

Whose to say Mahler would conduct his works the same way
every time?

[O]

In article <pPedndCV69mjWFjK...@supernews.com>, Frank

Berger <frankd...@gmail.com> wrote:

> On 8/30/2016 1:15 PM, graham wrote:
> > On 8/30/2016 3:01 AM, jjjjjjj...@gmail.com wrote:
> >> http://www.gramophone.co.uk/feature/top-10-mahler-symphony-recordings
> >>
> >>
> > Let's face it, if recordings were available with Mahler
> > conducting, there would still be disagreements here as to
> > which other conductor reflected the true essence of these
> > works.
> > Graham
>
> Whose to say Mahler would conduct his works the same way
> every time?

If he dared do such a thing, we'd have no recourse but to bitterly
criticize him here.

-Owen

[Frank Berger]

Argh. I should have said Who's not Whose. If someone else
did that I'd call him an ignoramus.

[Raymond Hall]

On Wednesday, 31 August 2016 03:53:27 UTC+10, O wrote:
> > >> http://www.gramophone.co.uk/feature/top-10-mahler-symphony-recordings
> > >>
> > >>
> > > Let's face it, if recordings were available with Mahler
> > > conducting, there would still be disagreements here as to
> > > which other conductor reflected the true essence of these
> > > works.
> > > Graham
> >
> > Whose to say Mahler would conduct his works the same way
> > every time?
>
> If he dared do such a thing, we'd have no recourse but to bitterly
> criticize him here.
>
> -Owen

Apart from sketches which indicate a very autocratic style of conducting, Mahler was definitely not averse to touching up scores as he felt fit, and there are indications he believed in an 'on the night' type of fire to performance.

http://www.fugato.com/pickett/thesis.shtml

This link above gives some details of Dr. David Pickett's thesis about Mahler's 'retouchings' and examples include some Beethoven scores.

Ray Hall, Taree

[Andy Evans]

As you probably know I have only a smattering of knowledge about Mahler's symphonies so I can only say, for the moment, that I just bought the complete Gielen set on CD. Turns out best price is to get it from Japan. He consistently sounds as good or better than anyone else, and he's not on YouTube so it's a done deal. And anyway, I wanted CD quallity not MP3.

I'm finding it quite exciting coming to Mahler later in life, I must say. I was put off by the conductors I was hearing. I'm a Sauvignon Blanc person, not a Rioja, and that's how I like my Mahler. Gielen has totally changed my understanding of his music.

[Bob Harper]

On 8/30/16 3:40 PM, Andy Evans wrote:
> As you probably know I have only a smattering of knowledge about
> Mahler's symphonies so I can only say, for the moment, that I just
> bought the complete Gielen set on CD. Turns out best price is to get
> it from Japan. He consistently sounds as good or better than anyone
> else, and he's not on YouTube so it's a done deal. And anyway, I
> wanted CD quallity not MP3.
>
> I'm finding it quite exciting coming to Mahler later in life, I must
> say. I was put off by the conductors I was hearing. I'm a Sauvignon
> Blanc person,

France, Pacific NW, or New Zealand?

not a Rioja,

Sigh. You're missing a great deal.

and that's how I like my Mahler. Gielen
> has totally changed my understanding of his music.
>

Well, at least we agree that Gielen is great :)

Bob Harper

[dk]

I would vote for Klemperer in no2 and Barbirolli in no5.

dk

[gggg...@gmail.com]

On Tuesday, August 30, 2016 at 7:15:03 AM UTC-10, graham wrote:

> On 8/30/2016 3:01 AM, wrote:
> > http://www.gramophone.co.uk/feature/top-10-mahler-symphony-recordings
> >
> Let's face it, if recordings were available with Mahler conducting,
> there would still be disagreements here as to which other conductor
> reflected the true essence of these works.
> Graham

Do you know about his piano rolls?:

http://www.classicalnotes.net/reviews/mahler.html

[Andy Evans]

> > I'm finding it quite exciting coming to Mahler later in life, I must
> > say. I was put off by the conductors I was hearing. I'm a Sauvignon
> > Blanc person,
>
> France, Pacific NW, or New Zealand?
>
> not a Rioja,
>
> Sigh. You're missing a great deal.

I didn't when I was younger! My tastes have changed. I like the essence without the display these days.

[sfr...@nycap.rr.com]

On Tuesday, August 30, 2016 at 12:15:21 PM UTC-4, Matthew Silverstein wrote:
>
> 3: Bernstein/NYPO (DG)
>

I've never heard the D/G recording of #3 by LB. Do the folks around here find it preferable to his earlier Sony recording, which is one of my favorites?

MIFrost

[Bob Harper]

So what sort of SB do you like?

Bob Harper

[Gerard]

"Bob Harper" wrote in message news:E3Dxz.33904$6d.3...@fx26.iad...

So what sort of SB do you like?

==================

SB???
Sorbet? Soviet Bomber?

[Herman]

Sauvignon Blanc

[Andy Evans]

> So what sort of SB do you like?
>
> Bob Harper

I'm no expert - I don't drink much - recommend some!

[Matthew Silverstein]

On Wednesday, August 31, 2016 at 3:36:34 PM UTC+4, sfr...@nycap.rr.com wrote:

> I've never heard the D/G recording of #3 by LB. Do the folks around here find it
> preferable to his earlier Sony recording, which is one of my favorites?

The interpretation is largely unchanged, but the orchestral playing is much improved (and the recorded sound is marginally improved). I love both recordings.

Matty

[Matthew Silverstein]

On Wednesday, August 31, 2016 at 3:36:34 PM UTC+4, sfr...@nycap.rr.com wrote:

> I've never heard the D/G recording of #3 by LB. Do the folks around here find it
> preferable to his earlier Sony recording, which is one of my favorites?

I should have added that the differences between the two performances are much, much smaller than the differences between, say, the NYPO M2 on Sony and the later M2 on DG.

Matty

[sfr...@nycap.rr.com]

Aha. Those two (M2's) are vastly different. I wondered if the M3's are equally different. Apparently not. LB got slower and more, um, extreme, as he got older. His M9 on D/G is supposed to be a good example of that. I haven't heard it though.

MIFrost

[Gerard]

wrote in message
news:5211ff31-7c41-4e1a...@googlegroups.com...

====================

AFAIK Bernstein has made 2 recordings of Mahler 9 for DG.
One of those (CGO ?) is an exception, being much slower, partially.

[sfr...@nycap.rr.com]

I believe you're correct. I have his Sony and the one he did with the Berlin Philharmonic (on D/G). I meant the other D/G recording. With the Royal Concertgebouw.

MIFrost

[Bob Harper]

Well, to start near the top of NZ offerings, Cloudy Bay. Great stuff.

Bob Harper

[Ed Presson]

wrote in message
news:b5331b5f-aa4b-4275...@googlegroups.com...

Back to Mahler 3 for a moment, to provide a vote for the Sony Bernstein,
which I prefer to the DG recording. The Sony performance has a certain
excitement of new
discovery that the DG doesn't quite match.

All three Bernstein Mahler 9s are on my shelf. I have not heard them for a
while, but I remember preferring the Berlin performance to the other DG,
although
the sound is not as good. The Sony is also very special.

Ed Presson

[Andrew Clarke]

On Tuesday, August 30, 2016 at 7:56:16 PM UTC+10, Matthew Silverstein wrote:
> On Tuesday, August 30, 2016 at 1:01:18 PM UTC+4, jjjjjjj...@gmail.com wrote:
> > http://www.gramophone.co.uk/feature/top-10-mahler-symphony-recordings
>
> The love affair with Rattle is predictable yet still disappointing. Rattle/Berlin as the top choice for Mahler 2? Ugh.
>
> Matty

There is, however, a startling discrepancy between the present #1 ranking for Rattle's "Resurrection" and what the Gramophone reviewer actually wrote at the time the recording came out - "damning with faint praise" seems to cover most of it.

This suggests to me that this particular list was put together hurriedly and without much attention to such obvious detail as whether the original reviewers actually liked the recording.

The Gramophone seems to have fallen victim to toptennitus - of which a symptom is ringing in the ears. I wonder if the mag is trying to stimulate sluggish circulation figures?

Andrew Clarke
Canberra

[jrsnfld]

On Wednesday, August 31, 2016 at 11:47:04 AM UTC-7, Gerard wrote:
> wrote in message

Bernstein's Concertgebouw performance from about 1986 has a distended Finale of nearly 30 minutes, and a slow opening Andante comodo, but the inner movements include a very fast Rondo-Burleske--under 12 minutes. In other words, Bernstein's main sin as he got older was to draw out contrasts to extremes.

The BPO performance from 1979 is indeed overall shorter timing. I can't remember if the third movement is as fast (my copy lacks a booklet)...I doubt it. His Tanglewood BSO performance from 1979 is three minutes slower than the Berlin, with a fast but not obscenely fast Rondo-Burlesque and a very reasonably slow Adagio. I wonder if other performances show that there's considerable variation from week to week in his pacing.

His last movement in Amsterdam, as slow as it is, is not as slow as Levine. I like slow or fast Finales, rather than middling Finales. Maybe that's why the Amsterdam recording is my favorite Bernstein for now, though the Boston recording has a special place in my affection just because it's one of my favorite orchestras.

Solti's second recording is another relatively slow Finale with a relatively quick third movement preceding it.

[Matthew Silverstein]

On Wednesday, August 31, 2016 at 9:59:46 PM UTC+4, sfr...@nycap.rr.com wrote:

> Aha. Those two (M2's) are vastly different. I wondered if the M3's are
> equally different. Apparently not.

The DG recording of M3 is slower overall, but the differences are much smaller. Essentially, it's the same interpretation.

Matty

[Matthew Silverstein]

On Thursday, September 1, 2016 at 7:06:36 AM UTC+4, Andrew Clarke wrote:

> There is, however, a startling discrepancy between the present #1 ranking
> for Rattle's "Resurrection" and what the Gramophone reviewer actually
> wrote at the time the recording came out - "damning with faint praise"
> seems to cover most of it.

Bizarre. I hadn't even bothered reading the original review. This recommendation is especially surprising since Rattle's first recording of M2 (with the CBSO) is so much better than the Berlin remake.

Matty

[RiRiIII]

and Mitropoulos (NYPO or WDR SO) in no 6.

AlR

[gggg gggg]

On Tuesday, August 30, 2016 at 2:01:18 AM UTC-7, jjjjjjj...@gmail.com wrote:
> http://www.gramophone.co.uk/feature/top-10-mahler-symphony-recordings

https://www.gramophone.co.uk/features/article/top-10-gustav-mahler-symphony-recordings