ne plus ultra vs. plus ultra

[vladimir]

Austrian composer Joseph Wolfl composed a sonata Op. 41 in 1808, and
subtitled it "Ne plus ultra." Soon thereafter Jan Ladislav Dussek composed
a sonata and subtitled that "Plus ultra." My French is inadequate to convey
me the joke or other intent - what do these phrases mean in this context?

Thanks,
Phil Caron

[LaVirtuosa]

Isn't that Latin? Here's how I take it to mean:

"Ne plus ultra":
"It doesn't get any better than this"

"Plus ultra":
"It just got better"

Phil Caron wrote,

[Henk van Tuijl]

"Nec [sic!] plus ultra" or "non plus ultra" is Latin, meaning: "(thus far
and) no farther!" Dussek clearly did want to go - too - far.

Henk

"vladimir" <vlad...@vermontel.net> schreef in bericht
news:tvsnbfi...@corp.supernews.com...

[Steven Lindberg]

"Ne" is also correct. "Nec" is simply "ne" + "que."
In English, at least, the phrase is idiomatic with "ne."

"Henk van Tuijl" <h.van...@home.nl> wrote in message
news:0luL7.19028$c8.30...@zwoll1.home.nl...

[Steve Emerson]

In article <tvsnbfi...@corp.supernews.com>,
"vladimir" <vlad...@vermontel.net> wrote:

I've always thought of "ne plus ultra" (Latin) as "the ultimate." Literally:
"no more beyond." Or, per Merriam-Webster: "1) the highest point capable of
being attained: ACME. 2) the most profound degree of a quality or state."

"Plus ultra" would suggest that there *is* "more beyond." Or: the un-ultimate
or non-acme.

The later title might not allude to the earlier, as the phrase is a common one.

SE.

[Samir Golescu]

One little divagation: Chopin uses these expressions in his
correspondence, to express his admiration for some of the great singers of
the period.

regards,
SG

____________

<<The Russian form of government is an absolute monarchy, tempered
by assassination>> - the Marquis de Custine

[Marcus Maroney]

"vladimir" <vlad...@vermontel.net> wrote:

Not knowing the works referenced, it's hard to guess the context, but
the literal translation of the *Latin* phrase 'ne plus ultra' is 'no
more beyond' or 'go no more beyond.' My guess is that either Wolfl
was meaning this was to be his last sonata or his highest quality
work. Perhaps Dussek was thinking he was continuing Wolfl's tradition
or writing a better work than the predecessor.

Cheers,

Marcus Maroney
marcus....@yale.edu

[Margaret Mikulska]

That's because "ne(c} plus ultra" is a common Latin expression and
Polish has been traditionally heavily peppered with Latin. This was
common for a few centuries even in very informal writing and speech, and
is not unusual even today. In other words, using such expressions
wasn't specific to Chopin's writing style.

-Margaret

[Henk van Tuijl]

I prefer Samir Golescu's translation. "Nec plus ultra" is Latin but seems to
mean in French something like: unsurpassed.

Henk

"Marcus Maroney" <newhav...@aol.com> schreef in bericht
news:75e776be.0111...@posting.google.com...

[vladimir]

Henk van Tuijl wrote in message <0luL7.19028$c8.30...@zwoll1.home.nl>...

>"Nec [sic!] plus ultra" or "non plus ultra" is Latin, meaning: "(thus far
>and) no farther!" Dussek clearly did want to go - too - far.
>

No wonder my French fell short on this.

- Phil

[vaneyes]

In article <VPAL7.20198$c8.32...@zwoll1.home.nl>, Henk van Tuijl says...

Years ago I used to drink a Scotch by that name...is it still made?

http://www.ne.jp/asahi/miniature/smallworld/ScotchN.htm

Regards

[Roberto Poli]

Margaret Mikulska <miku...@silvertone.princeton.edu> wrote in message news:<3BFEC827...@silvertone.princeton.edu>...

MY little divagation: In Italian, people say "NON plus ultra". Funny, isn't it?

Best,
RP

http://www.mp3.com/roberto_poli