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French audiences and the '1812'
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P
Nov 29, 2014, 9:32:34 PM11/29/14
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While listening to Tchaikovsky's '1812' Ouverture solenelle, it struck me how vitriolic a reaction American audiences would have if such a piece would create if such a piece existed with the Star Spangled Banner in place of La Marseillaise. Is this piece performed in France with a frequency approaching its popularity in English speaking countries? Do many French conductors include it in their repertoire? In short, are the French in on the joke or does the piece bother them?
-P
-P
Russ (not Martha)
Nov 29, 2014, 11:32:31 PM11/29/14
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On Saturday, November 29, 2014 8:32:34 PM UTC-6, P wrote:
> While listening to Tchaikovsky's '1812' Ouverture solenelle, it struck me how vitriolic a reaction American audiences would have if such a piece would create if such a piece existed with the Star Spangled Banner in place of La Marseillaise. Is this piece performed in France with a frequency approaching its popularity in English speaking countries? Do many French conductors include it in their repertoire? In short, are the French in on the joke or does the piece bother them?
>
One could ask the same question about Brahms' Triumphlied Op 53 which celebrates the German victory in the Franco-Prussian War.
> While listening to Tchaikovsky's '1812' Ouverture solenelle, it struck me how vitriolic a reaction American audiences would have if such a piece would create if such a piece existed with the Star Spangled Banner in place of La Marseillaise. Is this piece performed in France with a frequency approaching its popularity in English speaking countries? Do many French conductors include it in their repertoire? In short, are the French in on the joke or does the piece bother them?
>
Russ (not Martha)
Gerald Martin
Nov 30, 2014, 8:14:46 PM11/30/14
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On Saturday, November 29, 2014 9:32:34 PM UTC-5, P wrote:
> While listening to Tchaikovsky's '1812' Ouverture solenelle, it struck me how vitriolic a reaction American audiences would have if such a piece would create if such a piece existed with the Star Spangled Banner in place of La Marseillaise. Is this piece performed in France with a frequency approaching its popularity in English speaking countries? Do many French conductors include it in their repertoire? In short, are the French in on the joke or does the piece bother them?
>
> -P
I can't speak to live performances; but I searched various printed and online discographies going back decades and found that recorded French performances of the 1812 are exceedingly rare, suggesting that the work is not popular in France.
> While listening to Tchaikovsky's '1812' Ouverture solenelle, it struck me how vitriolic a reaction American audiences would have if such a piece would create if such a piece existed with the Star Spangled Banner in place of La Marseillaise. Is this piece performed in France with a frequency approaching its popularity in English speaking countries? Do many French conductors include it in their repertoire? In short, are the French in on the joke or does the piece bother them?
>
> -P
1. In 1966, Audio Fidelity released an 1812 conducted by Pierre Dervaux with The Amsterdam Philharmonic Society Orchestra.
2. In 1968, Columbia Special Products released a 7-inch 45 rpm single of the 1812 conducted by "Pierre Chaillet" with the "Paris Symphony." The record was a promo for the Quaker Oats Company's Puffed Wheat Cereal, which leads me to doubt the identification of the conductor and orchestra. Surely it would have been easier for Columbia to just use an existing recording (Ormandy?).
This is all I could find; sorry.
Lionel Tacchini
Dec 1, 2014, 4:23:36 AM12/1/14
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On 01.12.2014 02:14, Gerald Martin wrote:
> On Saturday, November 29, 2014 9:32:34 PM UTC-5, P wrote:
>> While listening to Tchaikovsky's '1812' Ouverture solenelle, it
>> struck me how vitriolic a reaction American audiences would have if
>> such a piece would create if such a piece existed with the Star
>> Spangled Banner in place of La Marseillaise. Is this piece
>> performed in France with a frequency approaching its popularity in
>> English speaking countries? Do many French conductors include it in
>> their repertoire? In short, are the French in on the joke or does
>> the piece bother them?
>
> On Saturday, November 29, 2014 9:32:34 PM UTC-5, P wrote:
>> While listening to Tchaikovsky's '1812' Ouverture solenelle, it
>> struck me how vitriolic a reaction American audiences would have if
>> such a piece would create if such a piece existed with the Star
>> Spangled Banner in place of La Marseillaise. Is this piece
>> performed in France with a frequency approaching its popularity in
>> English speaking countries? Do many French conductors include it in
>> their repertoire? In short, are the French in on the joke or does
>> the piece bother them?
>
> I can't speak to live performances; but I searched various printed
> and online discographies going back decades and found that recorded
> French performances of the 1812 are exceedingly rare, suggesting that
> the work is not popular in France.
>
It is easy to realise, of course, that the work of a Russian composer
> and online discographies going back decades and found that recorded
> French performances of the 1812 are exceedingly rare, suggesting that
> the work is not popular in France.
>
celebrating the fatal defeat of one of the great figures in French
history would not be naturally popular in that country.
Besides, the piece itself is viewed as empty bombast for canon and
orchestra on the same level as Beethoven's Wellington Victory.
--
Lionel Tacchini
Herman
Dec 1, 2014, 5:11:27 AM12/1/14
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On Monday, December 1, 2014 10:23:36 AM UTC+1, Lionel Tacchini wrote:
>
> Besides, the piece itself is viewed as empty bombast for canon and
> orchestra on the same level as Beethoven's Wellington Victory.
> --
Right. I don't think a lot of people rush to the stores asking for the latest 1812 recording.
>
> Besides, the piece itself is viewed as empty bombast for canon and
> orchestra on the same level as Beethoven's Wellington Victory.
> --
Maybe in America they do, though...
Louis
Dec 1, 2014, 6:15:38 AM12/1/14
to
I can't speak for live performances either, as I live in a part of the
country where concerts are few and far between.
I do like to listen to the 1812 ouverture now and again though, just for the
fun of it. I have to add I never heard anyone putting Tchaikovsky or that
overture down because of the un-patriotic meaning it conveys. Tchaikovsky is
still one of the best loved composers in France, and the 1812 recordings do
not cram the unsold bins.
"Gerald Martin" <gerr...@comcast.net> a écrit dans le message de news:
bde11db9-ff13-417e...@googlegroups.com...
country where concerts are few and far between.
I do like to listen to the 1812 ouverture now and again though, just for the
fun of it. I have to add I never heard anyone putting Tchaikovsky or that
overture down because of the un-patriotic meaning it conveys. Tchaikovsky is
still one of the best loved composers in France, and the 1812 recordings do
not cram the unsold bins.
"Gerald Martin" <gerr...@comcast.net> a écrit dans le message de news:
bde11db9-ff13-417e...@googlegroups.com...
Herman
Dec 1, 2014, 6:25:47 AM12/1/14
to
On Monday, December 1, 2014 12:15:38 PM UTC+1, Louis wrote:
> I have to add I never heard anyone putting Tchaikovsky or that
> overture down because of the un-patriotic meaning it conveys. Tchaikovsky is
> still one of the best loved composers in France, and the 1812 recordings do
> not cram the unsold bins.
>
In many ways PIT was very much oriented towards French music. Delibes was a big influence.
> I have to add I never heard anyone putting Tchaikovsky or that
> overture down because of the un-patriotic meaning it conveys. Tchaikovsky is
> still one of the best loved composers in France, and the 1812 recordings do
> not cram the unsold bins.
>
Terry
Dec 2, 2014, 2:02:59 AM12/2/14
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On Sunday, 30 November 2014 13:32:34 UTC+11, P wrote:
> While listening to Tchaikovsky's '1812' Ouverture solenelle, it struck me how vitriolic a reaction American audiences would have if such a piece would create if such a piece existed with the Star Spangled Banner in place of La Marseillaise. Is this piece performed in France with a frequency approaching its popularity in English speaking countries? Do many French conductors include it in their repertoire? In short, are the French in on the joke or does the piece bother them?
>
> -P
The French are much more level-headed than Americans about such things.
> While listening to Tchaikovsky's '1812' Ouverture solenelle, it struck me how vitriolic a reaction American audiences would have if such a piece would create if such a piece existed with the Star Spangled Banner in place of La Marseillaise. Is this piece performed in France with a frequency approaching its popularity in English speaking countries? Do many French conductors include it in their repertoire? In short, are the French in on the joke or does the piece bother them?
>
> -P
John Wiser
Dec 2, 2014, 4:23:04 AM12/2/14
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"Terry" <afdeba...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:e7665b61-e858-45fe...@googlegroups.com...
Indeed. About most things.
jdw
news:e7665b61-e858-45fe...@googlegroups.com...
jdw
Lionel Tacchini
Dec 2, 2014, 5:27:52 AM12/2/14
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--
Lionel Tacchini
Norman Schwartz
Dec 3, 2014, 8:19:50 PM12/3/14
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