Karol Szymanowski
pgaron
Szymanowski (1882-1937), especially his violin concertos. I know
nothing about his musical works and was wondering if they are
difficult to grasp -- and worth the effort to do so. Does anyone have
recommendations of recordings for the Szymanowski newbie?
Thanks,
pgaron
Gerard
Some recommandable performances of the violin concertoes has been mentioned in
those threads.
Another candidate:
Zimmermann with Wit/Honeck:
http://www.classicstoday.com/review.asp?ReviewNum=13049
Anyone can comment on this recording?
CharlesSmith
It's usual to divide Szymanowski's music into three periods: the first
basically in the Austro-German tradition, the second absorbing lots of
exotic and eastern influences, and the third getting simpler and
bringing in Polish folk elements. The second and third periods contain
the best music, the stuff that makes some of us into Szymanowski
enthusists.
Popular works from the second period include the 1st violin concerto
and the 3rd symphony (Song of the Night). The concerto was discussed
here recently. For the symphony I like the Rattle/CBSO recording, but
there are also good Polish recordings that others may be able to speak
for. From the 3rd period are the 2nd violin concerto, the 4th symphony
and the Stabat Mater. One of the most folk-related is Harnasie, a
Ballet-Pantomime, which I'm currently much enjoying in the Wit/Warsaw
recording (Naxos).
And then there's the chamber music, the piano music, songs, and his
great opera, King Roger ........
Charles
Steve Emerson
<e816ceb7-5979-4c2c...@o2g2000vbh.googlegroups.com>,
pgaron <pga...@my-deja.com> wrote:
I wouldn't say the VCs are hard to grasp. Not more so than a
representative Bartok work.
Knowing a fair amount of his work, but certainly not all, I'd say the
string quartets are his most substantial works, and a very significant
contribution to the SQ repertoire. The Carmina's disc is what I'd start
with.
SE.
Alan Cooper
news:75e3bb98-5ab8-4e4c...@r14g2000yqa.googlegroups.
com:
Good advice except possibly for the Rattle recommendation, imo. Stick with Wit on
Naxos for any of the orchestral works (including the two violin concerti w/Kaler)
and you'll be fine. If you love the violin concerti you'll want multiple
recordings, and Danczowska's and Wilkomirska's should be among them. Supplement
them with the Mythes for violin and piano (Danczowska/Zimerman on DG). The only
indispensable Rattle recording is the 4th Symphony with Andsnes--a great
performance of a terrific piece. Probably the masterpieces among the larger works
are the Stabat Mater and King Roger, although Harnasie is highly enjoyable as well
(see above). The 2nd and 3rd symphonies are glorious wallows but more of an
acquired taste.
Perhaps best of all, as SE notes, are the two string quartets. There are a bunch
of good recordings out now. I think my first recommendation would be the Royal SQ
on Hyperion, but the Carmina recording that Steve recommends is excellent, as are
the Goldner on Naxos and the Silesian on Accord. Too bad highponytail's transfer
of the Varsovia seems to be nla, because it's excellent as well:
http://highponytail.blogspot.com/2010/04/szymanoswki-string-quartets-varsovia.html
And then it's on to the solo piano and vocal music :-)
AC
Ricky Jimenez
both 5 star. Has anybody here watched it?
woytek
I really like Rattle way with Szymanowski and his recordings are
available quite cheap:
http://www.amazon.com/Szymanowski-Symphonies-Violin-Concertos-Orchestral/dp/B0013D8JXI/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1289463857&sr=8-1
for the piano music Sviatoslav Richter was absolutely faboulus and on
sviatoslavrichter.ru site is 2nd piano sonata from the 50s:
http://www.sviatoslavrichter.ru/records.php
see Шимановский. Соната N 2
Bastian Kubis
> [a lot of stuff snipped]
> Probably the masterpieces among the larger works
Do you or anyone else around here have a good recommendation for
favourite recordings of the Stabat Mater? I once sang it in a choir,
but never acquired a recording of it; but I think I would like to. Thanks!
Bastian
CharlesSmith
> Supplement
> them with the Mythes for violin and piano (Danczowska/Zimerman on DG).
For violin and piano works, and especially the Mythes, I would
recommend Ibragimova/Tiberghien. Exquisite ethereal playing, with
wonderful range of timbres.
> The only
> indispensable Rattle recording is the 4th Symphony with Andsnes--a great
> performance of a terrific piece. Probably the masterpieces among the larger works
> are the Stabat Mater and King Roger, although Harnasie is highly enjoyable as well
> (see above). The 2nd and 3rd symphonies are glorious wallows but more of an
> acquired taste.
I recommended Rattle for the 3rd precisely because it doesn't wallow.
His attention to detail sharpens the focus - makes it shine. The
recent Boulez/VPO offering, OTOH, is a wallow - but some like it that
way ...
> Perhaps best of all, as SE notes, are the two string quartets. There are a bunch
> of good recordings out now. I think my first recommendation would be the Royal SQ
> on Hyperion, but the Carmina recording that Steve recommends is excellent, as are
> the Goldner on Naxos and the Silesian on Accord. Too bad highponytail's transfer
> of the Varsovia seems to be nla, because it's excellent as well
I have the Varsovia (mp3 off the Olympia CD). Do the others offer
something different?
>
> And then it's on to the solo piano and vocal music :-)
Indeed!
Charles
CharlesSmith
I'm not in a position to give you a personal recommendation, but I'll
note that a Polish conductor recently assured me that Rattle is the
best in the Stabat Mater - because of the clarity of the singing and
the accurate Polish pronunciation of the Birmingham Chorus. Ties up
with my comment to Alan C about Rattle and detail.
Charles
Alan Cooper
news:81f09771-19ec-4248...@a37g2000yqi.googlegroups.
com:
> On Nov 11, 3:21 am, Alan Cooper <amcoo...@NOSPAMoptonline.net>
> wrote:
>
>> Supplement
>> them with the Mythes for violin and piano (Danczowska/Zimerman
>> on DG).
>
> For violin and piano works, and especially the Mythes, I would
> recommend Ibragimova/Tiberghien. Exquisite ethereal playing,
> with wonderful range of timbres.
How can I have forgotten the fabulous Ibragimova/Tiberghien recital on Hyperion,
surely one of the best Szymanowski collections ever! BRO currently lists a
marvelous David Grimal recital of 20th-century violin music on Ambroisie that
includes another fine performance of Mythes.
>
> I recommended Rattle for the 3rd precisely because it doesn't
> wallow. His attention to detail sharpens the focus - makes it
> shine. The recent Boulez/VPO offering, OTOH, is a wallow - but
> some like it that way ...
I haven't heard Boulez yet, but I don't find Rattle any sharper than Dorati if
that's what you're looking for in a performance. Rattle does have nice clarity
and good sound, but qua performance I still favor Semkow; it's hard to top Ochman
in the crucial solos. My problem with Rattle's 3rd Symphony extends to his Stabat
Mater as well--clean, clear, and dry as dust. Wit on Naxos is preferable, I
think, but even he is no match for Rodzinski or Rowicki (in inferior sound). Btw,
the live Viotti performance on Profil is not bad (esp. at the BRO price) and has
interesting couplings: settings of Stabat Mater by Penderecki, Poulenc and Rihm in
addition to Szymanowski's.
[Concerning the SQs]:
> I have the Varsovia (mp3 off the Olympia CD). Do the others
> offer something different?
The Royal has far better recorded sound, which may not be a concern. Also greater
heft and (to my ears) much more imaginative phrasing in #1 especially. The
Silesian performances are rougher and more energetic; I find them bracing. All in
all, though, the four recordings that we're discussing here (including also the
beautiful and elegant Carmina) are more complementary than competitive. I'd add
the Goldner into the mix because I think Dene Golding (the leader) is one of the
great underappreciated artists of our time.
I uploaded live performances of both quartets by the Royal here, if you're
curious: http://www.mediafire.com/?ifn8eojc1iv6q1l
AC
Allen
reply, but you let one person beat you. As to Wit--what is it that makes
him so magical in 20th/21st Century Polish music? He is my "go to" for
anything in that category that I've ever heard. I would like to hear him
do some Bacewicz, Baird and Augustyn Bloch; surely he has recorded some
of their works, but I've never encountered any of it.
Allen
Oscar Williamson
Violin Concerto No. 1: 1) Tetzlaff/Boulez, or 2) Zimmermann/Wit -- I
have not heard Wiłkomirska but it is on my 'most-wanted' list.
Violin & piano works: Ibragimova/Tiberghien
Stabat Mater: 1) Wisłocki/Wielkiej Orkiestry Symfonicznej Polskiego
Radia i Telewizji w Katowicach w/ Stefania Woytowicz (sop), Krystyna
Szostek-Radkowa (mezzo), Andrzej Hiolski (bar), or 2) Wit/Warsaw
Philharmonic -- Wisłocki's magnificent 1974 performance not cold nor
dry and last seen on Koch/Schwann...now OOP, natch, but well-worth
hunting down.
String Quartets: 1) Royal String Quartet is best I've heard, hands
down -- I saw Szymanowski Quartet play last Saturday in LA, but alas,
no Szymanowski...but I heard Szymon Laks!
Symphony 4: Rattle/City of Birmingham Symphony Orchestra w/ Andsnes
Symphonies 2 and 3: Wit/Warsaw Philharmonic Orchestra
Piano works (selection): Eri Iwamoto (Acte Prealable) debut CD has not
been far from my CD player since acquisition last August. Richter's
1950's performance of the Second Piano Sonata is a must-hear http://tiny.cc/l28e6
Without a doubt, the best Szymanowski piano I'll ever hear was
Zimerman's Themes on a Polish Folk Song, April 2008 at Disney Hall.
At last count, my Szymanowski collection is nearing 50 titles.
pgaron
tantalizing Szy. listening recommendations -- and please keep them
coming! I may have to abandon my self-imposed CD purchasing ban and
check a few of those out. (Not that I've been very successful in
adhering to such bans in the past...)
pgaron
CharlesSmith
>
> [Concerning the SQs]:
>
> > I have the Varsovia (mp3 off the Olympia CD). Do the others
> > offer something different?
>
> The Royal has far better recorded sound, which may not be a concern. Also greater
> heft and (to my ears) much more imaginative phrasing in #1 especially. The
> Silesian performances are rougher and more energetic; I find them bracing. All in
> all, though, the four recordings that we're discussing here (including also the
> beautiful and elegant Carmina) are more complementary than competitive. I'd add
> the Goldner into the mix because I think Dene Golding (the leader) is one of the
> great underappreciated artists of our time.
>
> I uploaded live performances of both quartets by the Royal here, if you're
> curious:http://www.mediafire.com/?ifn8eojc1iv6q1l
>
Thanks for this, but for some reason I'm not warming to it. I prefer
the beauty and mysticism of the Varsovia. OTOH I've found a download
of the Silesian (well OOP) and find it immediately appealing. Its
robust energy is a good contrast to the Varsovia.
Re the Varsovia, the sound on the recording I have is fine by my
standards, so I've uploaded it (2 files) in case it's an improvement
on what you have (or for anyone else who is interested).
http://www.mediafire.com/?25ijizbcx5o1a
Charles
Sol L. Siegel
news:18372043-a171-458a...@v20g2000prl.googlegroups.com:
> How I rate the works, top is my favorite, but all are essential:
> Symphony 4: Rattle/City of Birmingham Symphony Orchestra w/ Andsnes
...however you can get it.
> Symphonies 2 and 3: Wit/Warsaw Philharmonic Orchestra
I am very fond of Dorati's coupling of these two. Amazon marketplace has
some cheap used copies.
Henryk Szeryng's recording of the VC2 is one of my faves of anything, but
AFAIK it's only made it to CD in Japan. I seem to be the only one here who
likes the Julliet/Dutoit.
- Sol L. Siegel, Philadelphia, PA USA
Dave Cook
> Henryk Szeryng's recording of the VC2 is one of my faves of anything, but
> AFAIK it's only made it to CD in Japan.
This was on a 2-CD set, The 20th-Century Violin Concerto vol. 2.
Archivmusic offers it as an ArchivCD, but it's pricey.
http://www.arkivmusic.com/classical/album.jsp?album_id=57036
You can also find used copies on amazon.co.uk, amazon.de, etc. The
ASIN is B00004ZC0Y.
Dave Cook
Steve Emerson
<81f09771-19ec-4248...@a37g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>,
CharlesSmith <sigma....@ntlworld.com> wrote:
> > Perhaps best of all, as SE notes, are the two string quartets.
> > �There are a bunch of good recordings out now. �I think my first
> > recommendation would be the Royal SQ on Hyperion, but the Carmina
> > recording that Steve recommends is excellent, as are the Goldner on
> > Naxos and the Silesian on Accord. �Too bad highponytail's transfer
> > of the Varsovia seems to be nla, because it's excellent as well
>
> I have the Varsovia (mp3 off the Olympia CD). Do the others offer
> something different?
Really appreciate the Varsovia upload further down, Charles, thank you.
Re: the Carmina, I can't correlate it with the Royal or Silesian,
unfortunately -- but the great virtue of their disc, aside from
robustness of sound, beauty of tone, and exactitude of ensemble work --
is an extremely fierce Quartet #2. The galvanic second movement is
unforgettable. This is a work with a considerable debt to Bartok, and
restraint is not the byword in the second and third movements. The
otherwise worthy Goldner Quartet, the excellent Amati and Borodin, and
the Maggini don't come close to the Carmina, nor does the mediocre
Wilanow Quartet. (On brief listening, the Varsovia doesn't seem to take
an especially fierce approach.)
You can find about 3/4 of the Carmina's Quartet 2-ii here:
http://www.mediafire.com/?qpmd6yoiin5fmct
SE.
CharlesSmith
>
> Re: the Carmina, I can't correlate it with the Royal or Silesian,
> unfortunately -- but the great virtue of their disc, aside from
> robustness of sound, beauty of tone, and exactitude of ensemble work --
> is an extremely fierce Quartet #2. The galvanic second movement is
> unforgettable. This is a work with a considerable debt to Bartok, and
> restraint is not the byword in the second and third movements. The
> otherwise worthy Goldner Quartet, the excellent Amati and Borodin, and
> the Maggini don't come close to the Carmina, nor does the mediocre
> Wilanow Quartet. (On brief listening, the Varsovia doesn't seem to take
> an especially fierce approach.)
>
> You can find about 3/4 of the Carmina's Quartet 2-ii here:
>
> http://www.mediafire.com/?qpmd6yoiin5fmct
>
> SE.
Thanks. Re the Varsovia, I would say their basic ethos is seductive
and sensuous. Fabulous in SQ1, and even in SQ2-i. The Silesian are
much more robust in this SQ2-ii movement.
I've been reading the paragraphs about this quartet in Christopher
Palmer's book on Szymanowski, and it's strong stuff. He writes about
S's physical deterioration, and contrasts the personal anguish of this
quartet with the more impersonal mazurkas (written not long before).
In describing this second movement Palmer uses the phrase "pizzicati
flying like splinters or pieces of grit". While the Silesian play
pretty tough, it's still somehow more like a robust (but orderly)
dance. Listening to your Carmina sample I think you are right about
them. There's a far more of an unsettled and fractured feeling, which
I'm sure is how it should be.
Charles
Alan Cooper
news:18372043-a171-458a...@v20g2000prl.googlegroups.
com:
> Richter's 1950's performance of the Second Piano Sonata
> is a must-hear http://tiny.cc/l28e6
What is this site, Oscar? My anti-virus is blocking access to it.
Thanks for the info and thanks for your recommendations.
AC
Oscar Williamson
>
> > Richter's 1950's performance of the Second Piano Sonata
>
> What is this site, Oscar? My anti-virus is blocking access to it.
>
> Thanks for the info and thanks for your recommendations.
>
> AC
sorry, alan. it's amazon.com page for parnassus records richter in
russia vol. 5, which has the szymanowski sonata.
Alan Cooper
news:e343fecf-2494-4ff6...@i41g2000vbn.googlegroups.
com:
> Thanks for this, but for some reason I'm not warming to it. I
> prefer the beauty and mysticism of the Varsovia. OTOH I've found
> a download of the Silesian (well OOP) and find it immediately
> appealing. Its robust energy is a good contrast to the Varsovia.
>
> Re the Varsovia, the sound on the recording I have is fine by my
> standards, so I've uploaded it (2 files) in case it's an
> improvement on what you have (or for anyone else who is
> interested). http://www.mediafire.com/?25ijizbcx5o1a
Thanks a lot, Charles! I like the Varsovia very much, and I'm glad you enjoyed the
bumptious Silesians :-)
Alan
Al Eisner
> My problem with Rattle's 3rd Symphony extends to his Stabat
> Mater as well--clean, clear, and dry as dust. Wit on Naxos is preferable, I
> think, but even he is no match for Rodzinski or Rowicki (in inferior sound).
The two Stabat Maters I have are the Rattle and Wit on an EMI twofer (the set
also includes the Violin Concerti with Kulka, but not conducted by Wit).
I do prefer the latter, it's more intense, deeper. Is there something of
significance which the Naxos version would add?
By the way, as a relative newcomer to Szymanowski, I can perhaps offer a
useful answer to the original poster's question. I've found the music
generally quite accessible, especially that from Sz's first and second
periods. (I've found it harder to get into the late, simpler, mazurkas,
although I'm following some specific recording suggestions, made here,
to try to remedy that. We'll see....) I should add that I've had quite
good past luck following AC's suggestions on Szymanowski!
--
Al Eisner
Steve Emerson
<a7c2fbf2-7569-4708...@n32g2000pre.googlegroups.com>,
Oscar Williamson <oscaredwar...@gmail.com> wrote:
But someone else posted this link to MP3s:
http://www.sviatoslavrichter.ru/records.php
No doubt even more of a flag-raiser for anti-virus protocols.
I DL'd without episode (Mac guy).
SE.
Steve Emerson
<18372043-a171-458a...@v20g2000prl.googlegroups.com>,
Oscar Williamson <oscaredwar...@gmail.com> wrote:
> How I rate the works, top is my favorite, but all are essential:
>
> Violin Concerto No. 1: 1) Tetzlaff/Boulez, or 2) Zimmermann/Wit
More than Danczowska/Kord?
> -- I have not heard Wi�komirska but it is on my 'most-wanted' list
Always a joy to hear her, especially in Szym. I actually prefer
Danczowska both here and in Mythes, but wouldn't want to be without
either one.
SE.
Alan Cooper
news:alpine.SOC.1.10.1...@flora02.slac.stanford.edu:
> The two Stabat Maters I have are the Rattle and Wit on an EMI
> twofer (the set also includes the Violin Concerti with Kulka,
> but not conducted by Wit). I do prefer the latter, it's more
> intense, deeper. Is there something of significance which the
> Naxos version would add?
Not really. That EMI twofer is a fine set; I didn't realize that it was still in
print. (Oscar, this is the same Stabat Mater as the one on Dux, isn't it?) Kulka
is excellent in the violin concerti as well.
> By the way, as a relative newcomer to Szymanowski, I can perhaps
> offer a useful answer to the original poster's question. I've
> found the music generally quite accessible, especially that from
> Sz's first and second periods. (I've found it harder to get
> into the late, simpler, mazurkas, although I'm following some
> specific recording suggestions, made here, to try to remedy
> that. We'll see....) I should add that I've had quite good
> past luck following AC's suggestions on Szymanowski!
Thanks for the kind words!
AC
Oscar Williamson
>
> > sorry, alan. it's amazon.com page for parnassus records richter in
> > russia vol. 5, which has the szymanowski sonata.
>
> But someone else posted this link to MP3s:
>
> http://www.sviatoslavrichter.ru/records.php
>
> No doubt even more of a flag-raiser for anti-virus protocols.
>
> I DL'd without episode (Mac guy).
>
> SE.
Because downloading from Russian Federation-based servers is always to
be trusted. Just pointing out that the disc is available via Amazon.
Oscar Williamson
>
> > How I rate the works, top is my favorite, but all are essential:
>
> > Violin Concerto No. 1: 1) Tetzlaff/Boulez, or 2) Zimmermann/Wit
>
> More than Danczowska/Kord?
A great one, no doubt, but I do like Tetzlaff's version best. He
takes it to the limit. I like the in-your-face live engineering. I
like Boulez's accompaniment and VPO's playing. Vital stuff. Yes, I
do favor a lot of newer Szymanowski recordings. Ibragimova's violin
works and Royal String Quartet are toppers. Not to mention Wit's
Szymanowski series on Naxos.
Alan Cooper
com:
Well, my anti-virus allowed me to download Richter's Son#2 from the Russian site
without a peep. Living in a fool's paradise, I suppose :-) Thanks for the
pointer.
AC
rk
Mazurkas. Anna Kijanowska has recorded decent complete set, but for
truly epic performances one should get the few Rubinstein (1960 New
York live) and Richter (the latest Richter in Hungary box, plus a very
old and hard to get Muza LP) performances available.
rk
Jim Ginsburg
will be hard pressed to find a better played and recorded version of
Szymanowski's First Violin Concerto than violinist Jennifer Koh with
the Grant Park Orchestra conducted by Carlos Kalmar:
http://cedillerecords.org/music/product_info.php?cPath=356_358&products_id=463
Right now, this and every Cedille Records CD is on sale at our
website, 20% off regular prices. Cedille is also a label of the month
at ArkivMusic.com so you can get it there as well:
http://www.arkivmusic.com/classical/album.jsp?album_id=134235 (this
page includes a reprint of the disc's "10/10" review on
ClassicsToday.com
This is a recording that I, as producer, am particularly proud of.
--Jim
On Nov 11, 7:18 pm, Steve Emerson <eme...@n-n-nospamsonic.net> wrote:
> In article
> <18372043-a171-458a-9330-6ac014117...@v20g2000prl.googlegroups.com>,
Oscar Williamson
> I hope I can be forgiven for promoting one of my own, but I think you
> will be hard pressed to find a better played and recorded version of
> Szymanowski's First Violin Concerto than violinist Jennifer Koh with
>
> Right now, this and every Cedille Records CD is on sale at our
> website, 20% off regular prices. Cedille is also a label of the month
> at ArkivMusic.com so you can get it there as well:http://www.arkivmusic.com/classical/album.jsp?album_id=134235(this
> page includes a reprint of the disc's "10/10" review on
> ClassicsToday.com
>
> This is a recording that I, as producer, am particularly proud of.
>
> --Jim
It's a fantastic version, up there with the best. I had forgotten
about it. I had no idea who the Grant Park Orchestra was when I found
the disc in the bins earlier this year, but I knew Miss Koh. She
takes it by the horns as well and the orchestral playing is superb.
Excellent lifelike recording, too.
Steve Emerson
Alan Cooper <amco...@NOSPAMoptonline.net> wrote:
> I uploaded live performances of both quartets by the Royal here, if you're
> curious: http://www.mediafire.com/?ifn8eojc1iv6q1l
Thank you! And thanks for thoughtful breaking down into tracks/movements.
Very distinguished work. Performances similar to those on their CD
(which I haven't bought yet)?
SE.
Steve Emerson
<e79b9a1a-0b8a-4bca...@m20g2000prc.googlegroups.com>,
CharlesSmith <sigma....@ntlworld.com> wrote:
> On Nov 11, 9:29�pm, Steve Emerson <eme...@n-n-nospamsonic.net> wrote:
>
> > Re: the Carmina, I can't correlate it with the Royal or Silesian,
> > unfortunately -- but the great virtue of their disc, aside from
> > robustness of sound, beauty of tone, and exactitude of ensemble work --
> > is an extremely fierce Quartet #2. The galvanic second movement is
> > unforgettable. This is a work with a considerable debt to Bartok, and
> > restraint is not the byword in the second and third movements. The
> > otherwise worthy Goldner Quartet, the excellent Amati and Borodin, and
> > the Maggini don't come close to the Carmina, nor does the mediocre
> > Wilanow Quartet. (On brief listening, the Varsovia doesn't seem to take
> > an especially fierce approach.)
> >
> > You can find about 3/4 of the Carmina's Quartet 2-ii here:
> >
> > http://www.mediafire.com/?qpmd6yoiin5fmct
> >
> Thanks. Re the Varsovia, I would say their basic ethos is seductive
> and sensuous. Fabulous in SQ1, and even in SQ2-i. The Silesian are
> much more robust in this SQ2-ii movement.
Appreciate the information below. The book sounds promising -- do you
think highly of it?
> I've been reading the paragraphs about this quartet in Christopher
> Palmer's book on Szymanowski, and it's strong stuff. He writes about
> S's physical deterioration, and contrasts the personal anguish of this
> quartet with the more impersonal mazurkas (written not long before).
Two years could be a long time with a lifestyle like Szymanowski's....
> In describing this second movement Palmer uses the phrase "pizzicati
> flying like splinters or pieces of grit".
That description is perfect, inspired.
> While the Silesian play
> pretty tough, it's still somehow more like a robust (but orderly)
> dance. Listening to your Carmina sample I think you are right about
> them. There's a far more of an unsettled and fractured feeling, which
> I'm sure is how it should be.
I think so. Sharp attacks and especially an acerbic timbre result in
some searing moments. "Fractured" is just right. Janacek-like,
instantaneous reversals of mood -- I like to hear these put across via
all possible means. (It's almost ironic that two such superb
Haydn-playing quartets as the Carmina and the Amati should excel in
Szymanowski 2.)
SE.
CharlesSmith
>
> Appreciate the information below. The book sounds promising -- do you
> think highly of it?
>
> > I've been reading the paragraphs about this quartet in Christopher
> > Palmer's book on Szymanowski
It's a small paperback BBC Music Guide, 1983, available on Amazon. I
knew nothing of it until I came across it in a 10-book music section
on a second-hand bookstall. It contains a short biography, a good
chapter called 'perspective' that places him is his musical context,
and then a chronological discussion of the masterpieces - 1 or 2 pages
on each starting with Symph 2, Songs of Hafiz, Mythes (ie little
discussion of early works). A small book, but I find myself refering
to it every time I take on a new Szymanowski work.
Charles
CharlesSmith
> Thanks to all who responded to my question for providing the
> tantalizing Szy. listening recommendations -- and please keep them
> coming!
I'd like to add my thoughts on the mazurkas, with apologies if this is
too long or analytical.
I enjoy the mazurkas, but it's more of an admiration for the craft -
the merging of so many elements of Szymanowski's music into this
rarified set of dances - than an emotional connection. I got to know
them a few years ago through Sinae Lee's recording, but have recently
been looking for alternatives. I've used #15 as a benchmark - apart
from anything else I've been trying to play it. It starts with 8 bars
of elegant mazurka, then switches to 4 bars of stomping dance, and
then again to an impressionistic 4-bar restricted-range introverted
theme. I can hear these as three social worlds: the aristocrats, the
peasants, and then the lonely artist. Szymanowski covers the score in
markings - many dynamics, a tempo change at each 'scene' change, and
dozens of detailed accents and note-length marks. It's been commented
that S obviously didn't trust pianists to get it right. Mazurka #15 is
an especially good internet trial: with a mere 30-second sample you
can hear how the pianist treats each style and the transitions between
them.
Sinae Lee (I almost want to add "bless her") takes on the daunting
task of playing what Szymanowski actually wrote - every detail and
nuance. Her playing is exceptionally clear, and it works very well,
every style change in #15 having a telling effect. However I sometimes
feel I want something more physical. RK mentioned Kijanowska, who has
a similar faithfulness to the score, but she doesn't seem to pick up
the style switches so well, and doesn't have Lee's clarity. Her #15
stomping dance sounds no different from the elegant previous section,
but faster, and rather rushed; it doesn't dance. Kamasa I like and
I've acquired his set as my second version. He is rather flexible with
the score, but his additional nuances enhance the differentiation
between sections. In #15 his opening mazurka is stylish, his stomping
is suddenly energetic, etc. The switches in style are well marked and
negotiated.
A few weeks ago someone here mentioned Hamelin and said, I think, that
he "does a lot" with the music. I can't disagree with that, but for me
it's too much. Every few notes there's a change in tempo. I'm sure he
has good reasons, but the overall effect in #15 is that this masks the
tempo changes that S has actually marked - destroying the whole
essence of the piece in my opinion.
I'm sure there are other sets worthy of note. I suspect that Martin
Jones is good, but the Nimbus sound is so resonant that I can't
tolerate it. Regrettably I have heard neither Rubinstein nor Richter,
but I'm not inclined to invest in big multi-cd box sets to get my
hands on a paltry 4 mazurkas, however 'epic' they might be.
So at the moment I'm keeping with two sets: Kamasa when there are
visitors, and Lee for listening alone with the score. But perhaps
others can persuade me otherwise.
Charles
Alan Cooper
news:956ebf99-cbc7-45e7...@37g2000prx.googlegroups.c
om:
> I hope I can be forgiven for promoting one of my own, but I
> think you will be hard pressed to find a better played and
> recorded version of Szymanowski's First Violin Concerto than
> violinist Jennifer Koh with the Grant Park Orchestra conducted
> by Carlos Kalmar:
> http://cedillerecords.org/music/product_info.php?cPath=356_358&pr
> oducts_id=463
>
> Right now, this and every Cedille Records CD is on sale at our
> website, 20% off regular prices. Cedille is also a label of the
> month at ArkivMusic.com so you can get it there as well:
> http://www.arkivmusic.com/classical/album.jsp?album_id=134235
> (this page includes a reprint of the disc's "10/10" review on
> ClassicsToday.com
>
> This is a recording that I, as producer, am particularly proud
> of.
>
> --Jim
Yes, it's a fine recording and mea culpa for not mentioning it. I was sticking to
discs that included both concerti, so why not have Ms. Koh record #2 :-). For my
money, the winner and still champeen among your Grant Park discs is the super-OTW
Kurka collection. Fabulous stuff, and unlike the Szymanowski, no competition.
Ditto the wonderful collection of Kolb, Harbison, et al.
Thanks for the good work!
AC
Alan Cooper
news:emersn-410A7D....@nnrp-virt.nntp.sonic.net:
> In article
> <Xns9E2D521B67BC2am...@209.197.15.254>,
> Alan Cooper <amco...@NOSPAMoptonline.net> wrote:
>
>> I uploaded live performances of both quartets by the Royal
>> here, if you're curious:
>> http://www.mediafire.com/?ifn8eojc1iv6q1l
>
> Thank you! And thanks for thoughtful breaking down into
> tracks/movements.
When I like something enough to keep it usually I create a cue file for it. It's
a great time-waster when I'm supposed to be working. Just like posting to rmcr!
> Very distinguished work. Performances similar to those on their
> CD (which I haven't bought yet)?
Yes. And here's another nice Szymanowski SQ#1 from Birmingham Town Hall, November
10, 2009, performed by the cringingly named (but nonetheless excellent) Meta4 and
*not* divided into movements:
http://www.mediafire.com/?trbpch3o7od31hx
(You may have this already, Steve.)
About the ensemble, see
http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio3/classical/newgenerationartists/artists/meta4.shtml
Extra credit if you can pronounce the last name of the cellist five times fast (or
even once slowly).
AC
Steve Emerson
<2fe84707-c47a-44d5...@h21g2000vbh.googlegroups.com>,
CharlesSmith <sigma....@ntlworld.com> wrote:
It was I that praised the Hamelin set. Having spent zero time with the
score, I must defer to you on the matter of (30 seconds' worth?) of #15.
Remain very taken with his disc.
> I'm sure there are other sets worthy of note. I suspect that Martin
> Jones is good, but the Nimbus sound is so resonant that I can't
> tolerate it.
The Naxos recordings with Roscoe are better than Jones's anyway. But the
mazurkas are scattered over the whole layout of discs.
> Regrettably I have heard neither Rubinstein nor Richter,
> but I'm not inclined to invest in big multi-cd box sets to get my
> hands on a paltry 4 mazurkas, however 'epic' they might be.
The mandatory Rubinstein four can be had by buying a single CD -- these
are the mazurkas dedicated to him. Horszowski has recorded the ones
dedicated to himself as well. (I may be able to help you there: a BBC
magazine disc of his.)
> So at the moment I'm keeping with two sets: Kamasa when there are
> visitors, and Lee for listening alone with the score. But perhaps
> others can persuade me otherwise.
I think the Mazurkas are the strongest of his piano works, I love them.
I could pretty happily never hear any sonata or Fantasy of his again
(Richter or otherwise).
Kamasa, I like but have trouble with a hardness in his sound and general
approach. I know the Sinae Lee set and will revisit the #15.
Joanna Domanska on Olympia (she does all the Op 50, no others) is highly
lyrical, beautiful to hear. I listen to her set frequently. It reminds
me a little of ABM's DG versions of the Chopin mazurkas.
If you suggest a few mazurkas, I'll upload Domanska's for you to try.
Marie-Claude Werchowska, on Ligia, does a nice job with two of the
4-piece subsets of Op 50; #15 is among them.
SE.
Al Eisner
> Al Eisner <eis...@slac.stanford.edu> wrote in
> news:alpine.SOC.1.10.1...@flora02.slac.stanford.edu:
>
>
>> The two Stabat Maters I have are the Rattle and Wit on an EMI
>> twofer (the set also includes the Violin Concerti with Kulka,
>> but not conducted by Wit). I do prefer the latter, it's more
>> intense, deeper. Is there something of significance which the
>> Naxos version would add?
>
> Not really. That EMI twofer is a fine set; I didn't realize that it was still in
> print. (Oscar, this is the same Stabat Mater as the one on Dux, isn't it?) Kulka
> is excellent in the violin concerti as well.
I'm not sure about "in print", but Berkshire has it (also Amazon
marketplace, but of course Berkshire is cheaper).
>> By the way, as a relative newcomer to Szymanowski, I can perhaps
>> offer a useful answer to the original poster's question. I've
>> found the music generally quite accessible, especially that from
>> Sz's first and second periods. (I've found it harder to get
>> into the late, simpler, mazurkas, although I'm following some
>> specific recording suggestions, made here, to try to remedy
>> that. We'll see....) I should add that I've had quite good
>> past luck following AC's suggestions on Szymanowski!
>
> Thanks for the kind words!
--
Al Eisner
CharlesSmith
>
> I think the Mazurkas are the strongest of his piano works, I love them.
> I could pretty happily never hear any sonata or Fantasy of his again
> (Richter or otherwise).
There are other works I enjoy, but the mazurkas have the greatest
drawing power for me. I tend to focus on a few at a time.
>
> Kamasa, I like but have trouble with a hardness in his sound and general
> approach.
That's just the sort of sound I like ....
>
> Joanna Domanska on Olympia (she does all the Op 50, no others) is highly
> lyrical, beautiful to hear. I listen to her set frequently. It reminds
> me a little of ABM's DG versions of the Chopin mazurkas.
I should have said, but you obviously guessed it, that when I went
internet searching for mazurkas I couldn't find Domanska, either to
try or to buy. I can see some second hand at £20 now - will wait
hopefully for further reductions.
>
> If you suggest a few mazurkas, I'll upload Domanska's for you to try.
Yes please. Can I suggest 2, 6, 9, 18? These include some that Lee
does really well, and some where I'd like more power. In 9, for
example, the spread chords (I presume her hands aren't big enough)
disappoint every time.
Charles
Steve Emerson
<c49a237e-6e41-4548...@j12g2000prm.googlegroups.com>,
CharlesSmith <sigma....@ntlworld.com> wrote:
> On Nov 12, 9:17 pm, Steve Emerson <eme...@n-n-nospamsonic.net> wrote:
>
> >
> > I think the Mazurkas are the strongest of his piano works, I love them.
> > I could pretty happily never hear any sonata or Fantasy of his again
> > (Richter or otherwise).
>
> There are other works I enjoy, but the mazurkas have the greatest
> drawing power for me.
I should add, the early etudes and preludes are for me treasures
(derivative or otherwise), and the Masques and Metopes are certainly
worthy.
> I tend to focus on a few at a time.
(And very well, I might add.)
[deletions]
> > Joanna Domanska on Olympia (she does all the Op 50, no others) is highly
> > lyrical, beautiful to hear. I listen to her set frequently. It reminds
> > me a little of ABM's DG versions of the Chopin mazurkas.
>
> I should have said, but you obviously guessed it, that when I went
> internet searching for mazurkas I couldn't find Domanska, either to
> try or to buy. I can see some second hand at £20 now - will wait
> hopefully for further reductions.
>
> >
> > If you suggest a few mazurkas, I'll upload Domanska's for you to try.
>
> Yes please. Can I suggest 2, 6, 9, 18? These include some that Lee
> does really well, and some where I'd like more power. In 9, for
> example, the spread chords (I presume her hands aren't big enough)
> disappoint every time.
MP3s of those at link below. I don't think you're going to be happy with
the way she handles the chords in #9, so I've included Jones's version
of that one as well.
http://www.mediafire.com/?onab4kae1pujall
SE.
Roger Kulp
> Recently, I've seen some reviews of new recordings of works by Karol
> Szymanowski (1882-1937), especially his violin concertos. I know
> nothing about his musical works and was wondering if they are
> difficult to grasp -- and worth the effort to do so. Does anyone have
> recommendations of recordings for the Szymanowski newbie?
>
> Thanks,
>
> pgaron
Yes,the Concerto No.1,by Wanda Wilomerska,and Witold Rowicki,and the
Polish National Philharmonic.I have the original 1961 Muza Lp.Here it
is on CD.http://www.chazzforjazz.com/servlet/the-648/Wanda-Wilkomirska-
Violin-Concertos/Detail
Roger
Jim Ginsburg
I'm glad you are enjoying these recordings and appreciate your
patronage!
Best wishes,
Jim
On Nov 12, 2:53 pm, Alan Cooper <amcoo...@NOSPAMoptonline.net> wrote:
> Jim Ginsburg <j...@anotherdadfordean.com> wrote innews:956ebf99-cbc7-45e7...@37g2000prx.googlegroups.c
CharlesSmith
>
> > > If you suggest a few mazurkas, I'll upload Domanska's for you to try.
>
> > Yes please. Can I suggest 2, 6, 9, 18? These include some that Lee
> > does really well, and some where I'd like more power. In 9, for
> > example, the spread chords (I presume her hands aren't big enough)
> > disappoint every time.
>
> MP3s of those at link below. I don't think you're going to be happy with
> the way she handles the chords in #9, so I've included Jones's version
> of that one as well.
>
> http://www.mediafire.com/?onab4kae1pujall
>
> SE.
Many thanks for these. They clearly show that Domanska really is
excellent. Also for the Jones #9. Those crash chords are immense:
exactly as they sound in my head when I try to play them. But the
Nimbus recorded sound is unbelievably awful (IMHO of course).
Charles
Steve Emerson
<e6735e77-fd17-467b...@n30g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>,
Roger Kulp <thoren...@yahoo.com> wrote:
Mr Kulp, let me demonstrate how to make your posts readable by including
the spaces after punctuation that you inexplicably leave out:
Yes, the Concerto No. 1, by Wanda Wilomerska, and Witold Rowicki, and the
Polish National Philharmonic. I have the original 1961 Muza Lp. Here it
is on CD. http://www.chazzforjazz.com/servlet/the-648/Wanda-Wilkomirska-
Violin-Concertos/Detail
Thanks in advance. Readers of anything you write will thank you too.
SE.
Matthew B. Tepper
following letters to be typed in news:emersn-731D1D.13005513112010@nnrp-
virt.nntp.sonic.net:
It's much more readable your way, Steve.
--
Matthew B. Tepper: WWW, science fiction, classical music, ducks!
Read about "Proty" here: http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/proty.html
To write to me, do for my address what Androcles did for the lion
Opinions expressed here are not necessarily those of my employers
rk
> I'd like to add my thoughts on the mazurkas, with apologies if this is
> too long or analytical.
Thanks for interesting post! I listened to Mazurka #15 by Kijanowska
and Hamelin with your comments about the stomping dance in my mind.
BTW, my score says the stomping part should be played in pianissimo
and faster, so Kijanowska's interpretation is correct in that regard.
However, I try to get Lee's version so I can compare. As for Hamelin's
Mazurkas, I have great difficulties listening to him and concentrate
on the music. There is something wrong with Hamelins rubato, as you
noted too. Please email me if you wan't to try Richter's Mazurkas (I
have some files in my computer).
rk
CharlesSmith
> On 12 marras, 22:14, CharlesSmith <sigma.onl...@ntlworld.com> wrote:
>
> > I'd like to add my thoughts on the mazurkas, with apologies if this is
> > too long or analytical.
>
> Thanks for interesting post! I listened to Mazurka #15 by Kijanowska
> and Hamelin with your comments about the stomping dance in my mind.
> BTW, my score says the stomping part should be played in pianissimo
> and faster, so Kijanowska's interpretation is correct in that regard.
Sorry yes, my remark about her not picking up the change was
unreasonable. But others (Kamasa, Lee) make the LH staccato notes
bounce. However I'm aware that by labelling this section a 'stomping
dance' I've loaded the dice in their favour, and against Kijanowska.
(Incidentally there's another 4-bar pianissimo animato episode - a
folk tune in the tenor range at the top of pg2 - in which nobody seems
to observe the pp mark. Perhaps Kijanowska?)
> However, I try to get Lee's version so I can compare. As for Hamelin's
> Mazurkas, I have great difficulties listening to him and concentrate
> on the music. There is something wrong with Hamelins rubato, as you
> noted too. Please email me if you wan't to try Richter's Mazurkas (I
> have some files in my computer).
Thanks but kind friends here have supplied me with both the Richter
and the Rubinstein. Richter I think hits the 'epic' standard in #18 -
makes it his own. Rubinstein's gentle style with these works is in a
world of its own. Makes me wonder whether rest have got it all wrong.
Charles
rk
Yes, the relentless #18 is my favourite, but IMO Richter hits epic
standard easily with his 1954 performance of #12 also. The careful
construction of the big crescendo with those crushing chords is
amazing.
I agree about Rubinstein. He takes great liberties with first
Mazurkas, and he has every right to as it is "his" and "molto rubato".
It is just magic. Richter, as usual, obeys written text to tiniest
details. In first Mazurka he is one of thos rare pianists that get the
"non rubato" episode staccatos correct. Others usually play with some
rubato and smudge the staccatos with too much pedalling. So Richter
has totally different concept than Rubinstein, but it is equally
magical.
rk