NY Phil Horn Section. Anybody know what is going on
Ansermetniac
classical . It makes one sick. But I met two very nice young bassonists. One
going to Manhattan and one still in High School. They actually heard of
Leonard Sharrow!!!
Getting to the point. We were discussing the NY Phil. They told me they
heard the Tchaikovsky Fifth with Jerry Ashby playing the horn solo. I asked
where was Phil Myers. They told me Myers is getting his stomach stapled and
may never return. So Ashby is acting Principal and my high school
colleague, Erik Ralske is acting Associate and there is a sub in the third
chair which is Erik's real chair. And they said that this may be permanent.
Can anybody shed some light on this?
BTW, I heard from a very reliable source that when Myers lost all that
weight, the first time, Mehta told him that he sounded better when he was
fat. Which caused Phil to blow up again.
Sorry to hear that he needs that drastic operation. Ashby is a good player.
When he first arrived he was playing a very large mouthpiece and couldn't
get under the orchestra for the Haydn and Mozart pieces and cracked
constantly. He then switched to a very deep smaller bore mouthpiece and has
improved drastically. I heard him in Aspen in 1998 playing the Brandenburg
First and he was excellent. I heard him on TV and he also sounded great.
Unfortunately Zubin Mehta has given me an aversion to going anywhere near
Avery Fisher Hall.
Erik Ralske is the last link to James Chambers as he and I both studied with
Paul Rudoff, one of Chambers' first students. And at Purchase and Julliard
he studied with Ray DeIntiniss who he replaced as third horn, who was in the
same Juilliard Class as Paul Rudoff.
If what I was told is true the Phil is in good hands hornwise.
Abbedd
Tony Movshon
> Getting to the point. We were discussing the NY Phil. They told me they
> heard the Tchaikovsky Fifth with Jerry Ashby playing the horn solo. I asked
> where was Phil Myers. They told me Myers is getting his stomach stapled and
> may never return. So Ashby is acting Principal and my high school
> colleague, Erik Ralske is acting Associate and there is a sub in the third
> chair which is Erik's real chair. And they said that this may be permanent.
>
> Can anybody shed some light on this?
All I know is that Myers has not been in evidence all season, and in my
view Ashby has been a distinct improvement. For the last couple of
seasons, Myers' playing has fallen off. This isn't manifested as a loss
of security or tone quality, but in a seeming inability to play anything
softly. Ashby is much more flexible. I look forward to hearing him in
Dvorak 8 in a couple of weeks.
Tony Movshon
mov...@nyu.edu
TansalQ
Is that the program that includes Brahms and Previn, or the one with Ravel
and Bartok?
Tansal
Matthew Vaughan
few years back, and after a bit they brought in John Zirbel, but he left
after a year or two and went back to Montreal. Does anyone know the story
behind this? For now, associate principal Robert Ward is acting principal.
Does anyone know if he seems likely to gain the position permanently (ie, is
he growing into the role well), or are they still looking for more of a
world-class soloist? My impression a few years back is he didn't seem as
secure as Krehbiel, but I haven't noticed any problems in the few concerts
I've been to since then (but I haven't heard him in any significant solo
parts either).
DelMarva LaPoule
> I just got back from Tower in Massapequa Long Island. Three rows of
> classical . It makes one sick. But I met two very nice young bassonists. One
> going to Manhattan and one still in High School. They actually heard of
> Leonard Sharrow!!!
>
>
> Getting to the point. We were discussing the NY Phil. They told me they
> heard the Tchaikovsky Fifth with Jerry Ashby playing the horn solo. I asked
> where was Phil Myers. They told me Myers is getting his stomach stapled and
> may never return. So Ashby is acting Principal and my high school
> colleague, Erik Ralske is acting Associate and there is a sub in the third
> chair which is Erik's real chair. And they said that this may be permanent.
>
> Can anybody shed some light on this?
>
vertical-banded gastroplasty a couple of months ago. He is doing very
well, and tolerating the surgery fairly well, and gradually weaning
himself from pain medication.
I am confident that the statement "he may never return" is wishful
thinking on their part.
There is a long recuperative period for VBG, because of the stitches. It
is rather common, when tension is put on the incision, for it to
separate (dehiscense), and nobody wants that to happen. So playing the
horn is out of the question for a while.
>
> BTW, I heard from a very reliable source that when Myers lost all that
> weight, the first time, Mehta told him that he sounded better when he was
> fat. Which caused Phil to blow up again.
Wrong! Obesity is an emotional illness in which the desire to be slim
and "normal" constantly conflicts with an internal urge to be
overweight. Most attempts to lose weight on a permanent basis are
futile. Even with the gastroplasty, there are instances of patients
gorging themselves on high-calorie liquids, ice cream, other non-solid
foods in a pathological attempt to get their weight back up. Until
obesity is understood as the "death-wish" it really is, no pill or
operation will do much good.
>
> Sorry to hear that he needs that drastic operation.
Really a matter of life or death, due to breathing problems and diabetes.
Ashby is a good player.
> When he first arrived he was playing a very large mouthpiece and couldn't
> get under the orchestra for the Haydn and Mozart pieces and cracked
> constantly. He then switched to a very deep smaller bore mouthpiece and has
> improved drastically. I heard him in Aspen in 1998 playing the Brandenburg
> First and he was excellent. I heard him on TV and he also sounded great.
> Unfortunately Zubin Mehta has given me an aversion to going anywhere near
> Avery Fisher Hall.
>
> Erik Ralske is the last link to James Chambers
A very tenuous link. Ralske is not nearly the musician that Chambers was.
as he and I both studied with
> Paul Rudoff, one of Chambers' first students. And at Purchase and Julliard
> he studied with Ray DeIntiniss who he replaced as third horn, who was in the
> same Juilliard Class as Paul Rudoff.
>
> If what I was told is true the Phil is in good hands hornwise.
Phil is the last link to the Austro/Bohemian method of horn playing that
was expressive and used tasteful vibrato. Admittedly, he is my friend,
but I don't think there is a more musical or intelligent horn player
alive today.
Eric Nagamine
>
> I just got back from Tower in Massapequa Long Island. Three rows of
> classical . It makes one sick. But I met two very nice young bassonists. One
> going to Manhattan and one still in High School. They actually heard of
> Leonard Sharrow!!!
>
> Getting to the point. We were discussing the NY Phil. They told me they
> heard the Tchaikovsky Fifth with Jerry Ashby playing the horn solo. I asked
> where was Phil Myers. They told me Myers is getting his stomach stapled and
> may never return. So Ashby is acting Principal and my high school
> colleague, Erik Ralske is acting Associate and there is a sub in the third
> chair which is Erik's real chair. And they said that this may be permanent.
>
> Can anybody shed some light on this?
All I know from a friend who is a NY freelancer is that Phil Meyers did
get weight reduction surgery recently (probably Y Rouen banding which is
the most common & safest method these days). In normal situations, a
person usually can return to work in 2-3 weeks after the operation.
However, before & after the surgery there is supposed to be significant
lifestyle changes for the banding to work. This involves diet &
exercise, so considering how big he was and possible limitations of the
banding on how he breaths to play, it may take him a while to get back
to work. There was an interview with him last summer that suggested he
was not in best of health due to his weight. Hopefully he succeeds in
this change, cause at his best he's been great.
The Philharmonic's long time tubist Warren Deck finally has left due to
health problems also, though his problems were not weight related. From
what I hear, they'll audition for his job in the fall.
I think that with the advent of the 52 week season, orchestral musicians
have to work harder, work harder to stay fit, & work to relieve stress
more effectively or else their health eventually suffers.
--
-----------
Aloha and Mahalo,
Eric Nagamine
Matthew B. Tepper (posts from uswest.net are forged)
following letters to be typed in
news:hrMla.45183$Xd1.14...@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net:
> We were discussing the NY Phil. They told me they heard the Tchaikovsky
> Fifth with Jerry Ashby playing the horn solo. I asked where was Phil
> Myers. They told me Myers is getting his stomach stapled and may never
> return. So Ashby is acting Principal and my high school colleague, Erik
> Ralske is acting Associate and there is a sub in the third chair which is
> Erik's real chair. And they said that this may be permanent.
>
> Can anybody shed some light on this?
A shame if so, as I remember he is/was a very fine player; I heard him in
the Minnesota Orchestra before he went to New York.
--
Matthew B. Tepper: WWW, science fiction, classical music, ducks!
My personal home page -- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/index.html
My main music page --- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/berlioz.html
To write to me, do for my address what Androcles did for the lion
Mark Coy tossed off eBay? http://makeashorterlink.com/?M2B734C02
RMCR's most pointless, dumb and laughable chowderhead: Mark Coy.
Matthew B. Tepper (posts from uswest.net are forged)
following letters to be typed in
Speaking of the San Francisco Symphony horns, whatever happened to James
Callahan? He played in the second for many years before he moved over to
being the contractor or whatever that business position is called. More to
the point, does anybody know what has happened to his daughter Claire, a
witty and delightful red-faced woman I used to hang out with in college?
Eric Nagamine
The SFSO has been notoriously slow in filling positions and the first
person doesn't always fit into the group. My understanding is that the
section has considerable say, though MTT has the final say in who gets
hired and who gets tenure. The concertmaster position took a few years
to fill as well.
Given union rules, they will have to hold auditions again.
Supposedly, Zirbel returned to Montreal because his wife and kids were
still there, but one would never know if he fit into the section well. I
heard him do Strauss 1 with the orchestra the season he was there, and
thought that he was okay but not really spectacular. I also didn't think
that his sound was as good a match for the section as Krehbiel or Ward.
Tony Movshon
Heck51
> The SFSO has been notoriously slow in filling positions
The way it used to be in SFSO - positions were awarded on the point
system - the audition committee had 50 points to give, the conductor
had 50 points to award. to be offered a contract, a candidate needed
at least 75 points.
then there was the usual tenure period following initial appointment.
I don't know if this system is still in effect, but I would think it
probably is..
Ozawa was the one who was so notoriously indecisive about filling
positions, a trait that he took to the BSO with very negative and
demoralizing results.
Ozawa and the players committee were locked in a struggle re the
principal bassoon position for years - in the 70s, early 80s, IIRC.
the present principal bassoonist, Steve Paulson, a wonderful player,
actually won the audition 3 times before he was finally offered the
job. [after Ozawa had left.]
Ozawa simply was not going to award his ppoints to anyone the
committee picked - and they weren't going to pick his favorite
Mike Painter
dgall...@mediaone.net (Heck51) wrote:
{SNIP]
> Ozawa was the one who was so notoriously indecisive about filling
> positions, a trait that he took to the BSO with very negative and
> demoralizing results.
>
> Ozawa and the players committee were locked in a struggle re the
> principal bassoon position for years - in the 70s, early 80s, IIRC.
>
> the present principal bassoonist, Steve Paulson, a wonderful player,
> actually won the audition 3 times before he was finally offered the
> job. [after Ozawa had left.]
Stepehn Paulson is listed as SF's principal. Did he leave to join Boston
recently? Or is it a different Paulson?
Mike
Matthew B. Tepper (posts from uswest.net are forged)
letters to be typed in news:e87e1a2e.0304120633.6ed02c90
@posting.google.com:
> Eric Nagamine wrote
>
>> The SFSO has been notoriously slow in filling positions
> > Given union rules, they will have to hold auditions again.
>
> The way it used to be in SFSO - positions were awarded on the point
> system - the audition committee had 50 points to give, the conductor
> had 50 points to award. to be offered a contract, a candidate needed
> at least 75 points.
> then there was the usual tenure period following initial appointment.
> I don't know if this system is still in effect, but I would think it
> probably is..
>
> Ozawa was the one who was so notoriously indecisive about filling
> positions, a trait that he took to the BSO with very negative and
> demoralizing results.
>
> Ozawa and the players committee were locked in a struggle re the
> principal bassoon position for years - in the 70s, early 80s, IIRC.
Well, in San Francisco, there was also the Elayne Jones firing, which she
publicly fought; this undoubtedly didn't help Ozawa's attitude any, since
he sided with the player's committee which wanted to terminate Jones. As
it happened, there was another player they wanted to let go at the same
time, a Japanese bassoonist who didn't particularly want to fight it, but
was caught up in the media foofaraw anyway.
> the present principal bassoonist, Steve Paulson, a wonderful player,
> actually won the audition 3 times before he was finally offered the
> job. [after Ozawa had left.]
>
> Ozawa simply was not going to award his ppoints to anyone the
> committee picked - and they weren't going to pick his favorite
--
Marcus Maroney
> Can anybody shed some light on this?
Whatever the story is, he's scheduled to do Mozart 3 next season.
Granted, that's a pretty easy piece and they could get a replacement
with no problem, and Myers could probably play it in his sleep...
Cheers,
Marcus Maroney
marcus dot maroney at yale dot edu
Matthew B. Tepper (posts from uswest.net are forged)
> Well, in San Francisco, there was also the Elayne Jones firing, which she
> publicly fought; this undoubtedly didn't help Ozawa's attitude any, since
> he sided with the player's committee which wanted to terminate Jones. As
> it happened, there was another player they wanted to let go at the same
> time, a Japanese bassoonist who didn't particularly want to fight it, but
> was caught up in the media foofaraw anyway.
The bassoonist's name is Ryohei Nakagawa -- I couldn't remember him and had
to do a bit of Google research. And it wasn't a "firing" per se but a
denial of tenure after a trial period. My apologies for my sloppy memory.
JRsnfld
Stepehn Paulson is listed as SF's principal. Did he leave to join Boston
recently? Or is it a different Paulson? >>
The BSO still lists Richard Svoboda as principal, with Rick Ranti as associate
principal, and Suzanne Nelsen; with Gergg Henegar as the contrabassoon. No
Paulson. Meanwhile, if Stephen Paulson is in Boston, someone better tell the
Parnassus Symphony in SF to start looking for a conductor fast!
--Jeff
JRsnfld
Some of us in the audience in SF were sorry to see Zirbel go back to Montreal.
He is a marvelous, very musical player with a delightful touch for the soft as
well as the loud. However, as fine a musician as he is, I'll assume that there
was a subtle question of style and fit involved in his departure.
--Jeff
JRsnfld
Date: Sat, Apr 12, 2003 7:33 AM
Message-id: <e87e1a2e.03041...@posting.google.com>
Eric Nagamine wrote
> The SFSO has been notoriously slow in filling positions
> Given union rules, they will have to hold auditions again.
The way it used to be in SFSO - positions were awarded on the point
system - the audition committee had 50 points to give, the conductor
had 50 points to award. to be offered a contract, a candidate needed
at least 75 points.
then there was the usual tenure period following initial appointment.
I don't know if this system is still in effect, but I would think it
probably is..
Ozawa was the one who was so notoriously indecisive about filling
positions, a trait that he took to the BSO with very negative and
demoralizing results. >>
Doesn't every orchestra hire with a probationary period first? It's not unique
to SF. In any case, Ozawa may have been notoriously slow in hiring, but he's
not alone. SF went several seasons recently before MTT resolved the
concertmaster situation; the horn situation continues to drag on. Other
orchestras routinely show similar "vacancies" for several years at a time,
despite the fine players who fill the chairs on a temporary basis.
--Jeff
Alan Watkins
"agonising" over principal players and mostly I don't understand it.
Of course the principal conductor has to give his approval but in
Czech Republic they are guided by the section leader.
If you listen to an audition you are only going to recommend someone
who enhances or maintains the standard of your section....not someone
who downgrades it.
Better, you dispense with the "audition" bit and nick someone else
from a good orchestra who you ALREADY know to be a great player. That
way you can dispense with the audition bit and the agonising. That
works pretty well in my experience.
You know the "greats" on the grapevine and I am sure that is true of
any country in the world, including America.
For me, the greatest horn player in the WORLD (never mind just
America) is Dale Clevenger (Cleveland).....so the NY Phil could
possibly dispense with the audition bit and offer Mr C about $200,000
a year.
Kind regards,
Alan M. Watkins
Mike Spengler
Although I haven't heard about Myers getting the surgery, I do
have a friend/musical colleague (keyboards) who underwent the same
procedure about 3 years ago.
For him it was successful. Granted, he was younger than Myers and
had not exhibited any health problems aside from his size. Which we
all thought he "carried well"- being about 6'4".
He indeed had to watch his diet for a time afterwards, but these
days he's eating pretty normally and is much happier. Not that he was
miserable beforehand, he just felt it was time to do something before
any of the risk factors came into reality considering he's married
with children.
I would imagine Myers' physicians took into account the risks of
the surgery and established a careful post-op regimen for his needs-
both physical and emotional.
Here's hoping for a complete recovery, and a longer life. Both
actual and professional.... Mike S
Ansermetniac
<A very tenuous link. Ralske is not nearly the musician that Chambers was.>
I would be hard to disagree with your statement because James Chambers was
and will always be my idol(sorry Edmond Leloir you come in a very close
second). I was just saying that of all the horn players today, Erik Ralske
is the closest to Chambers sound(I never heard Julie Landsman). Ashby also
studied with Chambers. But according to my former employee, Greg Black, the
brass mouthpiece maker, Ashby plays a Giardinelli G17. A very deep
mouthpiece but with a # 17 bore. Erik plays a Giardinelli 8 bore with a
Myron Bloom rim. Chambers played a very thin rimmed funnel mouthpiece with a
#1 bore. Only Vinny Derosa , Myron Bloom and a few others can handle such
a monster. The last time I saw Erik Ralske was in the early 90s. He was
invited as an alumni to play the Strauss First with the Gemini Youth
orchestra. When we played it was the Huntington Training Orchestra. Since
they only had one competent student horn player I filled in to play the
second part of the orchestral horn parts. We did two performances. Erik
played that # 8 bore like it was a # 1. An incredible sound,
meeelllllllooooowww to the max. As big as a house. But that would be
nothing without musicality which Mr. Ralske has. He may not be James
Chambers but who was, is, or will be. It is hard to compare mere mortals
with legends.
Unfortunately, the Chambers style is on the wane. With Ashby and Ralske as
the principals maybe the section members will change and return to the glory
years.
It is no secret that I do not like the way Phil Myers plays. His vibrato is,
IMOO abominable compared to Chamber's pure sound. And his balls to the wall
style is a bastardization of the Chambers style.
Of course I would like to see him regain his health and return to the chair
that he won and deserves. But until that occurs I think that the Phil has
good subs in Ashby and Ralske. I just wonder who is the sub for Ralke's
third chair while he plays acting associate.
Abbedd
"DelMarva LaPoule" <vze2...@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:3E97C3C...@verizon.net...
JRsnfld
America) is Dale Clevenger (Cleveland).....so the NY Phil could
possibly dispense with the audition bit and offer Mr C about $200,000
a year.
Kind regards,
Alan M. Watkins >>
This is a very nice compliment, but is it meant for Dale Clevenger (in Chicago)
or for his counterpart in Cleveland (Richard King)? I could imagine either
deserving such praise.
--Jeff
Eric Nagamine
>
> I think this is an American problem.....I have heard of this
> "agonising" over principal players and mostly I don't understand it.
> Of course the principal conductor has to give his approval but in
> Czech Republic they are guided by the section leader.
>
> If you listen to an audition you are only going to recommend someone
> who enhances or maintains the standard of your section....not someone
> who downgrades it.
>
> Better, you dispense with the "audition" bit and nick someone else
> from a good orchestra who you ALREADY know to be a great player. That
> way you can dispense with the audition bit and the agonising. That
> works pretty well in my experience.
But they don't always fit in. And in the U.S. it ain't gonna happen with
the Union rules. I would think that in the EU, it's the same situation
these days. I've seen ads stating that applicants must be from EU
countries. The union rules actually work quite well, especially if one
knows what goes on in Central & South America where some of the
positions are appointed with political connections or nepotism involved.
> You know the "greats" on the grapevine and I am sure that is true of
> any country in the world, including America.
>
> For me, the greatest horn player in the WORLD (never mind just
> America) is Dale Clevenger (Cleveland).....so the NY Phil could
> possibly dispense with the audition bit and offer Mr C about $200,000
> a year.
>
err, Clevenger is with the Chicago Symphony.
For my money, Peter Damm, former principal of the Dresden Staatskappelle
is one of the great all around players.
--
Matthew Vaughan
news:3E97CD03...@hawaii.rr.com...
> Matthew Vaughan wrote:
> >
> > I have a similar question about the SF Symphony. David Krehbiel retired
a
> > few years back, and after a bit they brought in John Zirbel, but he left
> > after a year or two and went back to Montreal. Does anyone know the
story
> > behind this? For now, associate principal Robert Ward is acting
principal.
> > Does anyone know if he seems likely to gain the position permanently
(ie, is
> > he growing into the role well), or are they still looking for more of a
> > world-class soloist? My impression a few years back is he didn't seem as
> > secure as Krehbiel, but I haven't noticed any problems in the few
concerts
> > I've been to since then (but I haven't heard him in any significant solo
> > parts either).
>
Yes. I found out they are having another round in June, though this time
they will be invite-only.
Matthew Vaughan
"Mike Painter" <mjp4...@mindspringspam.comspam> wrote in message
news:mjp4spam-120...@sdn-ar-004casfrmp220.dialsprint.net...
I believe he was still talking about the SFS in the 2nd and 3rd paragraphs.
Matthew Vaughan
> Date: Sat, Apr 12, 2003 7:33 AM
> Message-id: <e87e1a2e.03041...@posting.google.com>
>
> system - the audition committee had 50 points to give, the conductor
> had 50 points to award. to be offered a contract, a candidate needed
> at least 75 points.
> then there was the usual tenure period following initial appointment.
> I don't know if this system is still in effect, but I would think it
> probably is..
It doesn't sound like it is quite the same, from what I know (which is very
little), but it might be.
Basically, they start by listing the position, and inviting resumes (of
which they may receive between roughly 200 and 400). Those with sufficiently
impressive professional experience may be invited to audition. Those lacking
such experience may be asked to submit a tape before receiving an invitation
to audition personally (they seem to only extend invitations to a very few
of these). They could also certainly intive some other players who didn't
apply that they especially want to recruit (these players might skip to the
final round or rounds). Perhaps 30-50 might be invited to audition (and
actually show up), and initially this will be "blind"--they have a carpet on
stage so the type of shoe they are wearing can't be heard, and the committee
is behind a screen in the audience so they can't see the stage.
(Interestingly, the Los Angeles Philharmonic, perhaps the most
ethnically-diverse major orchestra in America, does NOT use blind auditions
at any stage.)
At this stage the committee does not include the music director, and I
believe consists largely of players from the section in question. They might
typically go through a couple more rounds to whittle it down to perhaps 3-6
players before (hopefully) selecting one. From my understanding, once the
committee has selected the candidate, then the music director (MTT) says yea
or nay and the player can start his or her probationary period. It doesn't
sound like he has any involvement until then (at least for section parts; it
may be different for principals, and I'm certain it is quite different when
it comes to the concertmaster--I assume MTT was largely responsible for
bringing Alexander Barantshik from the LSO?). Then of course, the player may
be in a probationary period for up to 2 years.
Sometimes a player is overwhelmingly preferred by the committee, but let go
within weeks of actually playing in the orchestra. Sometimes they last a
full season or even two before being let go. (And yes, sometimes they stay!)
I'm sure that while some details differ, the story is essentially the same
at any of the major American orchestras that provide full-time employment
and a wage that could possibly support a family (at least the 200-400
resumes part!)