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Pristine Classical: Rare Mischa Elman recordings, 1931-51
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Andrew Rose
May 21, 2012, 11:54:17 PM5/21/12
to
Rare recordings by Mischa Elman in new Obert-Thorn transfers
First digital outings for Elman's recordings of Vivaldi, Beethoven and
Paganini
PASC 339 MISCHA ELMAN Recordings 1931-51
Producer and Audio Restoration Engineer: Mark Obert-Thorn
VIVALDI (arr. Nachez) Violin Concerto in G minor
New Symphony Orchestra
Lawrance Collingwood, conductor
BEETHOVEN Romance No. 1 in G major
BEETHOVEN Romance No. 2 in F major
Orchestra
Lawrance Collingwood, conductor
MENDELSSOHN Violin Concerto in E minor
Chicago Symphony Orchestra
Desiré Defauw, conductor
PAGANINI (arr. Elman) Caprice in A minor, Op. 1, No. 24
Wolfgang Rosé, piano
Mischa Elman, violin
Web page: http://tinyurl.com/PASC339w
Short notes
Mischa Elman came into prominence as a star violinist just as the
recording industry began at the beginning of the twentieth century.
Indeed, his earlier recordings were second only to those of the
legendary Fritz Kreisler in popularity at the time.
But as economic slump and the Great Depression hit in the late 20s and
1930s, his recording output lessened - though he did live to perform and
record well into the era of stereo, with a discography that spans the
years 1906-1967, and sales of several million discs.
In this release Mark Obert-Thorn has trawled the archives for four rare
and superlative recordings made by Elman in Britain and the United
States between 1931 and 1951. From standard classics like the
Mendelssohn Concerto to a rare 45rpm recording of his own arrangement
and variations on Paganini's 24th Caprice, this is a treasure trove of
musical history waiting to be opened.
Notes on this recording
The sources for the present transfers were American Victor “Z” pressings
for the Vivaldi; British HMV shellacs for the Beethoven Romances; a
Japanese LP transferred from the original wide-range lacquer masters for
the Mendelssohn; and 45 rpm vinyls for the Paganini. The original
recording of this last item, an elaborate arrangement by Elman, is rare
and has never previously appeared on CD, as have neither the Vivaldi nor
the Beethoven Romance in F. Some swish is inherent in the master of the
second side of the Vivaldi, and there are occasional gritty patches on
the lacquers that were used for the Mendelssohn concerto’s LP transfer.
Mark Obert-Thorn
Portrait - 1912
Elman was born at Talnoi, Russia, January 21, 1891. He studied at the
Royal Music School in Odessa under Fiedelman, first appearing in public
in 1899. Professor Leopold Auer was a member of the audience, and at his
suggestion Elman went eventually to St. Petersburg in 1901. He came
under the personal supervision of Auer and made immediate progress.
Elman's début was made in Berlin, 1904, and his success was immediate,
bringing many engagements all over Germany. The following year he
appeared in London, and the success he had already achieved in Germany
was repeated in England. His first tour of America took place in 1908,
and American audiences at once endorsed the opinions of Europe. Few
musicians have achieved so fine a reputation at such an early age, and
there appears to be little doubt that Elman's future career will be as
successful as that of his prodigy days. At first his style of playing
naturally showed the influence of his brilliant teacher, but latterly he
has developed a style of his own which marks him out as an artist of
great individual attainments. His repertory includes all the great
violin concertos and solos. The violin which Mischa Elman used as a boy
was a small Nicolas Amati; latterly, however, he has used a
Stradivarius, dated 1727. This instrument is in a fine state of
preservation.
The Etude, June 1912
Portrait - 1989
Mischa Elman (1891-1967) studied with Leopold Auer as a young child and
made his debut at the age of 13. He recorded a prodigious number of
acoustic Victor records, some with his own string quartet, and some with
such artists as Caruso and Frances Alda. He was in the same celebrity
class as Kreisler, and second only to him as a gramophone bestseller.
Then his career perhaps started to shine a little less in comparison
with some superlative contemporary violinists, and it was only partly
due to the depression that he made fewer records in the late 1920s and
1930s. After the war he made a handful of mono LPs for Decca, and then
one or two stereo recordings for Vanguard and Philips.
Gramophone, December 1989
MP3 Sample Beethoven Romance No. 2 http://tinyurl.com/PASC339
First digital outings for Elman's recordings of Vivaldi, Beethoven and
Paganini
PASC 339 MISCHA ELMAN Recordings 1931-51
Producer and Audio Restoration Engineer: Mark Obert-Thorn
VIVALDI (arr. Nachez) Violin Concerto in G minor
New Symphony Orchestra
Lawrance Collingwood, conductor
BEETHOVEN Romance No. 1 in G major
BEETHOVEN Romance No. 2 in F major
Orchestra
Lawrance Collingwood, conductor
MENDELSSOHN Violin Concerto in E minor
Chicago Symphony Orchestra
Desiré Defauw, conductor
PAGANINI (arr. Elman) Caprice in A minor, Op. 1, No. 24
Wolfgang Rosé, piano
Mischa Elman, violin
Web page: http://tinyurl.com/PASC339w
Short notes
Mischa Elman came into prominence as a star violinist just as the
recording industry began at the beginning of the twentieth century.
Indeed, his earlier recordings were second only to those of the
legendary Fritz Kreisler in popularity at the time.
But as economic slump and the Great Depression hit in the late 20s and
1930s, his recording output lessened - though he did live to perform and
record well into the era of stereo, with a discography that spans the
years 1906-1967, and sales of several million discs.
In this release Mark Obert-Thorn has trawled the archives for four rare
and superlative recordings made by Elman in Britain and the United
States between 1931 and 1951. From standard classics like the
Mendelssohn Concerto to a rare 45rpm recording of his own arrangement
and variations on Paganini's 24th Caprice, this is a treasure trove of
musical history waiting to be opened.
Notes on this recording
The sources for the present transfers were American Victor “Z” pressings
for the Vivaldi; British HMV shellacs for the Beethoven Romances; a
Japanese LP transferred from the original wide-range lacquer masters for
the Mendelssohn; and 45 rpm vinyls for the Paganini. The original
recording of this last item, an elaborate arrangement by Elman, is rare
and has never previously appeared on CD, as have neither the Vivaldi nor
the Beethoven Romance in F. Some swish is inherent in the master of the
second side of the Vivaldi, and there are occasional gritty patches on
the lacquers that were used for the Mendelssohn concerto’s LP transfer.
Mark Obert-Thorn
Portrait - 1912
Elman was born at Talnoi, Russia, January 21, 1891. He studied at the
Royal Music School in Odessa under Fiedelman, first appearing in public
in 1899. Professor Leopold Auer was a member of the audience, and at his
suggestion Elman went eventually to St. Petersburg in 1901. He came
under the personal supervision of Auer and made immediate progress.
Elman's début was made in Berlin, 1904, and his success was immediate,
bringing many engagements all over Germany. The following year he
appeared in London, and the success he had already achieved in Germany
was repeated in England. His first tour of America took place in 1908,
and American audiences at once endorsed the opinions of Europe. Few
musicians have achieved so fine a reputation at such an early age, and
there appears to be little doubt that Elman's future career will be as
successful as that of his prodigy days. At first his style of playing
naturally showed the influence of his brilliant teacher, but latterly he
has developed a style of his own which marks him out as an artist of
great individual attainments. His repertory includes all the great
violin concertos and solos. The violin which Mischa Elman used as a boy
was a small Nicolas Amati; latterly, however, he has used a
Stradivarius, dated 1727. This instrument is in a fine state of
preservation.
The Etude, June 1912
Portrait - 1989
Mischa Elman (1891-1967) studied with Leopold Auer as a young child and
made his debut at the age of 13. He recorded a prodigious number of
acoustic Victor records, some with his own string quartet, and some with
such artists as Caruso and Frances Alda. He was in the same celebrity
class as Kreisler, and second only to him as a gramophone bestseller.
Then his career perhaps started to shine a little less in comparison
with some superlative contemporary violinists, and it was only partly
due to the depression that he made fewer records in the late 1920s and
1930s. After the war he made a handful of mono LPs for Decca, and then
one or two stereo recordings for Vanguard and Philips.
Gramophone, December 1989
MP3 Sample Beethoven Romance No. 2 http://tinyurl.com/PASC339
Andrew Fell
May 22, 2012, 3:12:27 AM5/22/12
to
Why is a M O-T working for this shitty pirate? I would buy this disc
if it were on Naxos or some reputable label.
if it were on Naxos or some reputable label.
wade
May 22, 2012, 1:24:27 PM5/22/12
to
On May 22, 12:12 am, Andrew Fell <hugefuk...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Why is a M O-T working for this shitty pirate? I would buy this disc
> if it were on Naxos or some reputable label.
And how is Naxos any different from Pristine? They are both doing the
> Why is a M O-T working for this shitty pirate? I would buy this disc
> if it were on Naxos or some reputable label.
same thing, with differing degrees of intervention, just as any other
individual or group producing transfers of recorded sound. NEITHER is
operating with licenses to transfer from the legally recognized
"owner" of the source material. You could make the same comparison
between Dutton and Naxos. IMHO your analogy falls on its face.
wkasimer
May 22, 2012, 1:38:34 PM5/22/12
to
On May 22, 1:24 pm, wade <wadewo...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> And how is Naxos any different from Pristine? They are both doing the
> same thing, with differing degrees of intervention, just as any other
> individual or group producing transfers of recorded sound.
Right. The difference is that Pristine is charging 14 euro, plus
> And how is Naxos any different from Pristine? They are both doing the
> same thing, with differing degrees of intervention, just as any other
> individual or group producing transfers of recorded sound.
shipping.
Bill
Andrew Rose
May 23, 2012, 6:13:50 AM5/23/12
to
Andrew Rose
May 23, 2012, 6:41:46 AM5/23/12
to
oblivion on my machine, hence my response to yours...
Part of Mark's original remit for us was to explore the more interesting
but less commercial repertoire that Naxos and their ilk wouldn't touch
because they couldn't be sure of selling a run of 2000 copies on CD.
These days that leaves quite a lot to choose from, unfortunately for them.
Because we're unlikely ever to sell 2000 copies of the Elman (we've
never sold anything like 2000 copies of any single release) we can't
afford to compete with Naxos on price, though by offering a range of
formats from 320kbps MP3 (€7 @ Pristine vs. €6.99 @ Naxos.com) upwards
we're not always uncompetitive.
It's also worth noting how much Naxos have scaled back their Historic
releases - 2 CDs in the last month and a half, of which Mark produced
one. Over that same period Pristine has released 14 CDs-worth of music
over 12 releases (the Hollywood Quartet Beethoven issue was a
triple-set), plus the MP3 downloads we've given away and the music we've
made available on PADA Exclusives for streaming and download at €1/week.
Mark has now produced 43 CDs for Pristine that would never have seen the
light of day otherwise. He never ceases to amaze me with what he manages
to find, the time and effort which is devoted to each project, and the
dedication and professionalism with which he operates.
If someone refuses to buy this release because it's on our label rather
than A. N. Other's then the only person losing out is themselves...
Message has been deleted
Oscar
May 23, 2012, 7:16:35 AM5/23/12
to
Why this is marked as abuse? It has been marked as abuse.
Report not abuse
On May 23, 3:41 am, Andrew Rose wrote:
>
> It's also worth noting how much Naxos have scaled back their Historic
> releases - 2 CDs in the last month and a half, of which Mark produced
> one.
It's true, over the last three years Naxos Historical's release
>
> It's also worth noting how much Naxos have scaled back their Historic
> releases - 2 CDs in the last month and a half, of which Mark produced
> one.
schedule has looked mighty thin. Releases slowing to a trickle, and
Marston and MOT freelancing for Pristine.
Message has been deleted
wade
May 23, 2012, 8:04:46 AM5/23/12
to
On May 23, 4:40 am, frankwm <frankwmar...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> On May 23, 12:16 pm, Oscar <oscaredwardwilliam...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Releases slowing to a trickle....
>
> ...competition from BLOGS and Professor Ear: 1500+ Beecham
> Zauberflote's being one example...how many of That has Rosey sold??
>
> Charging full-whack (or even less) for copies of LP's/78's is quite
> unjustified - and 'Historical' LP's can be got for peanuts from eBay:
> scarcely anyone wants them - so why should you pay Rosey to copy, at
> full-price, something like the perfumed Hollywood Qt/Beethoven - for
> more than the 'genuine article' ..
>
> However there is an interest in ancient material 'for free' - even if
> it's not rare/or is on legit CD - ie: Casals/Bach Suiteshttp://musicparlourhistorical.blogspot.co.uk/2012/01/pablo-casals-pla...
> - almost 4600 downloads in a few months: how many sets did Rose sell
> (with a years 'head-start) - for transfers which were plagued with
> noise-reduction artifacts/'pumping' - and how many buyers would later
> consider that money-well-spent when an accurate LP transfer was
> discovered to be hugely superior?
Again, you do the research, find the transfer sources/techniques you
like and then make your purchases of what you like.
And as far as the Beecham Zauberflote or the Casals Bach Suites,
frankly, in the US, I wouldn't buy or take ANYONE's download as they
have been part of the active EMI CD catalog for decades. Good or bad
though the transfers may be, that's a hornets nest i don't choose to
stick my nose into.
> On May 23, 12:16 pm, Oscar <oscaredwardwilliam...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Releases slowing to a trickle....
>
> ...competition from BLOGS and Professor Ear: 1500+ Beecham
> Zauberflote's being one example...how many of That has Rosey sold??
>
> Charging full-whack (or even less) for copies of LP's/78's is quite
> unjustified - and 'Historical' LP's can be got for peanuts from eBay:
> scarcely anyone wants them - so why should you pay Rosey to copy, at
> full-price, something like the perfumed Hollywood Qt/Beethoven - for
> more than the 'genuine article' ..
>
> However there is an interest in ancient material 'for free' - even if
> it's not rare/or is on legit CD - ie: Casals/Bach Suiteshttp://musicparlourhistorical.blogspot.co.uk/2012/01/pablo-casals-pla...
> - almost 4600 downloads in a few months: how many sets did Rose sell
> (with a years 'head-start) - for transfers which were plagued with
> noise-reduction artifacts/'pumping' - and how many buyers would later
> consider that money-well-spent when an accurate LP transfer was
> discovered to be hugely superior?
Again, you do the research, find the transfer sources/techniques you
like and then make your purchases of what you like.
And as far as the Beecham Zauberflote or the Casals Bach Suites,
frankly, in the US, I wouldn't buy or take ANYONE's download as they
have been part of the active EMI CD catalog for decades. Good or bad
though the transfers may be, that's a hornets nest i don't choose to
stick my nose into.
John Hood
May 23, 2012, 8:10:08 AM5/23/12
to
"Andrew Rose" <and...@pristineaudio.com> wrote in message
news:4fbcbeea$0$12520$ba4a...@reader.news.orange.fr...
Do you offer downloads to Australia? I might revisit the concept.
JH
wade
May 23, 2012, 8:17:47 AM5/23/12
to
course THAT could be truly a definition of Pricey. Actually Amazon US
has used copies in the $35 range.
Message has been deleted
wade
May 23, 2012, 8:37:42 AM5/23/12
to
On May 23, 5:23 am, frankwm <frankwmar...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> the latter-day mis-use of various 'sophisticated noise-
> reduction' (sic) systems for CD transfers - even from the original
> owner/manufacturer - which could render the sound inferior to earlier
> LP transfers of 78 material - or some LPs from tape...
>
> ...ie: Maria Callas - even from those who may be less
> 'interventionist' than Rosey: such as ObertThorn - who gets a kicking
> here:http://www.divinarecords.com/articles/callas_update.html ...as
> well as the CD's (in general)
>
> ....viz: "his overzealous use of CEDAR and personal preferences result
> in the diminution of midrange clarity and a dulled upper range with a
> loss of transparency and articulation..which is exactly what these
> latter-day 're-masterer's' inflict willy-nilly onto the source
> material - with tragic results...and which Professor Ear's transfers
> do not suffer from/or add to (but the older 78 transfers to LP still
> used some form/s of noise-reduction)..
Totally interesting to compare various sources and methods, I agree
wholeheartedly. And many times the "unofficial sources" produce MUCH
better results than the "owners". Just higher-risk to participate and
compare, with ISPs monitoring download activities and the US
Government blocking websites offering downloads under the label of
revenue protection.
> On May 23, 1:04 pm, wade <wadewo...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> I wouldn't buy or take ANYONE's download as they have been part of
> the active EMI CD catalog for decades.
>
> Even if you are not (for such material) it can be interesting due to
> I wouldn't buy or take ANYONE's download as they have been part of
> the active EMI CD catalog for decades.
>
> the latter-day mis-use of various 'sophisticated noise-
> reduction' (sic) systems for CD transfers - even from the original
> owner/manufacturer - which could render the sound inferior to earlier
> LP transfers of 78 material - or some LPs from tape...
>
> ...ie: Maria Callas - even from those who may be less
> 'interventionist' than Rosey: such as ObertThorn - who gets a kicking
> here:http://www.divinarecords.com/articles/callas_update.html ...as
> well as the CD's (in general)
>
> ....viz: "his overzealous use of CEDAR and personal preferences result
> in the diminution of midrange clarity and a dulled upper range with a
> loss of transparency and articulation..which is exactly what these
> latter-day 're-masterer's' inflict willy-nilly onto the source
> material - with tragic results...and which Professor Ear's transfers
> do not suffer from/or add to (but the older 78 transfers to LP still
> used some form/s of noise-reduction)..
Totally interesting to compare various sources and methods, I agree
wholeheartedly. And many times the "unofficial sources" produce MUCH
better results than the "owners". Just higher-risk to participate and
compare, with ISPs monitoring download activities and the US
Government blocking websites offering downloads under the label of
revenue protection.
wkasimer
May 23, 2012, 9:13:22 AM5/23/12
to
On May 23, 6:13 am, Andrew Rose <and...@pristineaudio.com> wrote:
> Or buy it as a 320kbps MP3 for €7, no shipping...
Which is more expensive than a Naxos physical disc. I have nothing
> Or buy it as a 320kbps MP3 for €7, no shipping...
against Pristine, Andrew, but your products are, in my opinion, vastly
overpriced, particularly since I expect to be among the last to hop on
the download bandwagon.
Bill
Kimba W Lion
May 23, 2012, 9:22:13 AM5/23/12
to
wkasimer <wkas...@comcast.net> wrote:
>Right. The difference is that Pristine is charging 14 euro, plus
>shipping.
And here we see one result of the record companies devaluing their product.
>Right. The difference is that Pristine is charging 14 euro, plus
>shipping.
14 euros is roughly equivalent to the price of an RCA Victrola LP in the
1970s, if you bring inflation into account.
But since we now have such things as over 10 hours of reissued classical
recordings for 99 cents--practically free in terms of price per individual
work--honest pay for an honest day's work is hard to come by. I really don't
see how anyone who hasn't won the lottery can afford to put any effort into
restoring old recordings and then give them all away.
I'm not saying I don't appreciate a bargain, I'm just saying that over the
course of the CD era and into downloads the majority of the record companies
have devalued their own product, leading to a new definition of what is too
expensive. (But the companies continue to have conniptions over declining
sales and file sharing, which they brought on themselves.)
Message has been deleted
wagnerfan
May 23, 2012, 9:29:09 AM5/23/12
to
transfers its easily worth the amount he charges. The 1952 Furtwangler
sounds better than any other release I have heard - for me the work
and results involved justify the cost.
Wagner fan
O
May 23, 2012, 9:33:13 AM5/23/12
to
In article <45opr7h8vqro09jpt...@4ax.com>, Kimba W Lion
A basic problem is the lack of fresh meat. All the other genres have
active performers and new releases which invest the market with new
performances of new works with new artists. While here in this genre,
we're struggling to get excited about yet another reissue of a 1952
Furtwangler Brahms 1. We want our performers to play music from dead
composers and we want most of our performers dead or nearly dying too.
What kind of art is this? It's like we got stuck on Renaissance
paintings and won't consider any of those "modern" ones. This industry
needs to stop being a museum for antiquities and start becoming
progressive to some new types of music and performers.
-Owen
active performers and new releases which invest the market with new
performances of new works with new artists. While here in this genre,
we're struggling to get excited about yet another reissue of a 1952
Furtwangler Brahms 1. We want our performers to play music from dead
composers and we want most of our performers dead or nearly dying too.
What kind of art is this? It's like we got stuck on Renaissance
paintings and won't consider any of those "modern" ones. This industry
needs to stop being a museum for antiquities and start becoming
progressive to some new types of music and performers.
-Owen
Message has been deleted
ivanmaxim
May 23, 2012, 9:50:50 AM5/23/12
to
On May 23, 9:43 am, frankwm <frankwmar...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> 'time/effort' is a red-herring when automated 'remastering' is the
> norm (especially for LPs)
>
> Even manually, due to the late-vintage/high quality, the Furtwangler
> Brahms:1 took me less than 40 minutes + the playing-time to edit; so,
> as that LP being worth $'x' - and maybe costing Rosey 'x' Cents, the
> intrinsic time/cost is negligible: and quite typical - ie: the early
> 80's Hollywood/Beethoven would be also be doddle to transfer manually
> - let alone 'set the dial's' and wait a few minutes for all the
> various FLAC's/mp3's to be disgorged..
>
> ..even less effort is required if CD's are, sneakily, used...
>
> This Pristine Lark is all about extracting money on a weekly
> basis...from, mainly, obsessives (always a good market to 'plunder')..
And how do we know that your "remastering" doesn't sound like shit
compared to Rose's. Wagner fan.
> On May 23, 2:22 pm, Kimba W Lion<norepliesbyem...@norepliesbyemail.invalid> wrote:
>
> I really don't see how anyone who hasn't won the lottery can afford
> to put any effort into restoring old recordings and then give them all
> away....
>
> I really don't see how anyone who hasn't won the lottery can afford
> to put any effort into restoring old recordings and then give them all
>
> 'time/effort' is a red-herring when automated 'remastering' is the
> norm (especially for LPs)
>
> Even manually, due to the late-vintage/high quality, the Furtwangler
> Brahms:1 took me less than 40 minutes + the playing-time to edit; so,
> as that LP being worth $'x' - and maybe costing Rosey 'x' Cents, the
> intrinsic time/cost is negligible: and quite typical - ie: the early
> 80's Hollywood/Beethoven would be also be doddle to transfer manually
> - let alone 'set the dial's' and wait a few minutes for all the
> various FLAC's/mp3's to be disgorged..
>
> ..even less effort is required if CD's are, sneakily, used...
>
> This Pristine Lark is all about extracting money on a weekly
> basis...from, mainly, obsessives (always a good market to 'plunder')..
And how do we know that your "remastering" doesn't sound like shit
compared to Rose's. Wagner fan.
Message has been deleted
Christopher Webber
May 23, 2012, 10:56:40 AM5/23/12
to
On 23/05/2012 14:33, O wrote:
> All the other genres have
> active performers and new releases which invest the market with new
> performances of new works with new artists.
So do most of the many genres which make up what the commercial world
> All the other genres have
> active performers and new releases which invest the market with new
> performances of new works with new artists.
calls (rather annoyingly) "classical".
And given the large amount of fine, new real music which is currently
being written and recorded, I at any rate don't have either the time or
inclination to get excited about any footling new Furtwangler issues (to
take your apposite example).
This month I've bought new stuff by Ades, Macmillan (a superlative disc
from The Sixteen of some wonderful choral music which can easily be
spoken of in the same breath as Bruckner and Poulenc) and Golijov.
We do ourselves no favours by choosing to wallow solely in the past. The
present is every bit as stimulating, consoling and beautiful.
Andrew Rose
May 23, 2012, 3:25:22 PM5/23/12
to
On 23/05/2012 14:10, John Hood wrote:
>
> Do you offer downloads to Australia? I might revisit the concept.
Certainly do - we have quite a number of enthusiastic Antipodean customers!
>
> Do you offer downloads to Australia? I might revisit the concept.
Oscar
May 23, 2012, 4:30:58 PM5/23/12
to
Why this is marked as abuse? It has been marked as abuse.
Report not abuse
On May 23, 7:56 am, Christopher Webber wrote:
>
> This month I've bought new stuff by Ades, Macmillan (a superlative disc
> from The Sixteen of some wonderful choral music which can easily be
> spoken of in the same breath as Bruckner and Poulenc) and Golijov.
>
> We do ourselves no favours by choosing to wallow solely in the past. The
> present is every bit as stimulating, consoling and beautiful.
I bought the last Macmillan disc on Linn, my second of his, and I echo
>
> This month I've bought new stuff by Ades, Macmillan (a superlative disc
> from The Sixteen of some wonderful choral music which can easily be
> spoken of in the same breath as Bruckner and Poulenc) and Golijov.
>
> We do ourselves no favours by choosing to wallow solely in the past. The
> present is every bit as stimulating, consoling and beautiful.
your praise http://tiny.cc/m82rew I wish I could share your
enthusiasm for Golijov. The little I've heard was uneven,
unassimilated mishmash. Others, of course, have called it 'inspired
salmagundi' and 'adventitious tosh'. :-)
Oscar
May 24, 2012, 2:46:27 AM5/24/12
to
Why this is marked as abuse? It has been marked as abuse.
Report not abuse
On May 23, 7:56 am, Christopher Webber wrote:
>
> This month I've bought new stuff byAdes,Macmillan(a superlative disc
>
> from The Sixteen of some wonderful choral music which can easily be
> spoken of in the same breath as Bruckner and Poulenc) andGolijov.
I would also urge you to check out a new-ish CD (released February
> spoken of in the same breath as Bruckner and Poulenc) andGolijov.
2011) by James Francis Brown called Prospero's Isle on the Guild label
out of Ramsen, Switzerland. One of my favorite young violinists, Jack
Liebeck, and his steady chamber partner Katya Apekisheva play on three
of the chamber compositions. Wonderful music-making of some piquant
new works by a young British composer http://tiny.cc/olvsew
American Records Guide, January/February 2012
James Francis Brown is an English composer born in 1969. As with many
of his British-Isle generation, affinities with such figures as
Britten, Tippett, Maw, McCabe, Dodgson, and the brothers Colin and
David Matthews are readily apparent in his music, as are more
traditional influences from Walton, Vaughan-Williams, Ireland, and
Finzi, as well as more continental (and chromatically adventurous)
sonorities inspired by (for example) Bartok and Berg.
But Brown, who has chosen to write tonal music, has discovered his own
kind of tonal music. Harmonies are at once luxuriant, subtle, and
fresh; rhythms are spun out with graceful suppleness yet seem unforced
and spontaneous; the often-intricate figurations are cunningly worked
(but entirely free of “contemporary” gimmicks), yet shimmering with
verdant pantheism. Seldom does one hear new music that marries such
daunting technical skill and virtuosic demands with so much ease and
life-affirming joy, so much pleasure in unusual timbral layerings that
(as Caliban tells us) “give delight and hurt not”, so much exquisite
delicacy and refinement.
All is not, nor could be, sweetness and light. The central sections of
Brown’s 1996 String Trio’s II, a 15-minute variation sequence, darken
into unease, agitation, and even, in the fifth variation — where
Brown’s typically active and teeming surfaces are briefly pared down
to slow, lorn, hesitant single lines — into elegiac stoicism. But this
is a brief and exceptional interlude. For the most part the Trio, as
well as the 2004 Piano Quartet, 2011 Violin Sonata, and 2006 cello-and-
piano duo Prospero’s Isle are serenely rapturous, their soaring and
wide-spanning strophes inlaid with intricate filigree, their hovering
and wafting and bounding allegros alive with the constant motion of a
butterfly aflit in an airy golden glow of resonances, their more
lyrical and contemplative moments tranquil and quietly inward.
The interplay of line and texture as this music unfolds is especially
enthralling. I’ve never heard timbral interpenetrations more
diaphanous, more rarified, yet better fitted to the instruments or
more aurally fascinating. Just listen to the Violin Sonata’s dancing
and flickering central scherzo: the violin and piano are so amorously
entwined they seem ecstatic pulsations of a single light-filled
organism.
Performances by all concerned are little short of miraculous: filled
with love for the music, and rendered with unstinting warmth, tonal
splendor, and sensitivity. Guild’s recording is a perfect complement:
rich, airy, detailed, aquamarine-clear. This is an enchantment from
beginning to end.
-LEHMAN
ivanmaxim
May 24, 2012, 4:17:09 AM5/24/12
to
On May 23, 10:25 am, frankwm <frankwmar...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> On May 23, 2:50 pm, ivanmaxim <ivanmax...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > And how do we know that your "remastering" doesn't sound like shit compared to Rose's. Wagner fan. (sic!!)
>
> ...well - you can easily find out (as have a-quarter-of-a-million-file-
> downloaders).
>
> When they are (as with, definitely, the Furtwangle/Brahms 1) identical
> LP's being used then 'even you' should be able to recognize the
> superiority of the sound (ie: 'untampered-with') - and of any
> comparable recordings - compared to Rosey's 'enhancement'...
>
> Those files are never 're-mastered' - only in one very recent instance
> (Ronald Smith) has noise-reduction/auto de-click been used on a LP:
> they are, within any constraints of 16bit digital, wholly accurate
> copies of LP's - transcribed using very high-quality cartridges/et al.
>
> Unfortunately, you are an long-time apologist for Mr Pristine: hence
> do not wish to learn/be told The Truth....so even if I had uploaded
> the Furtwangler EMI 'Ring' you wouldn't accept that the original
> source was so deficient (having never heard the LP's..) - only 'wonder
> in amazement' that wildly boosting the treble, et al, had magically
> improved what was, at best, a 'cassette-tape' sound: a bit like
> leaving-off the Dolby B..you know - it becomes 'all so impressive'...
>
> But you have sufficient 'resources' to accumulate this stuff (like the
> 40,000 'unheard' radio broadcasts) - so, hopefully, your executors can
> find someone equally in awe of Mr Rose's 'achievements'...
Similarly, I really don't take you seriously as a critic of Rose's
work, The number of downloads you
have had is meaningless since they are free and many downloaders just
want to see how it sounds. Your statememts
about how easy it is for record companies to remaster is really one of
the funniest things I have read here
considering the abysmal quality of much of the result we get from e.g.
EMI. But most of all your personal animosity
for whatever reason is so apparent that it colors anything you say
about him. I like some of his work and some I don't
the ones I like I do because they just sound better than any other
versions I have heard and I am not alone in this
For whatever reason, e;g; professional jealousy at his success perhaps
you damn all of his work (which automaticallty
put up a red flag for me). Write what you wish about him - I just
don't take it seriously. Wagner fan
> On May 23, 2:50 pm, ivanmaxim <ivanmax...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > And how do we know that your "remastering" doesn't sound like shit compared to Rose's. Wagner fan. (sic!!)
>
> ...well - you can easily find out (as have a-quarter-of-a-million-file-
> downloaders).
>
> When they are (as with, definitely, the Furtwangle/Brahms 1) identical
> LP's being used then 'even you' should be able to recognize the
> superiority of the sound (ie: 'untampered-with') - and of any
> comparable recordings - compared to Rosey's 'enhancement'...
>
> Those files are never 're-mastered' - only in one very recent instance
> (Ronald Smith) has noise-reduction/auto de-click been used on a LP:
> they are, within any constraints of 16bit digital, wholly accurate
> copies of LP's - transcribed using very high-quality cartridges/et al.
>
> Unfortunately, you are an long-time apologist for Mr Pristine: hence
> do not wish to learn/be told The Truth....so even if I had uploaded
> the Furtwangler EMI 'Ring' you wouldn't accept that the original
> source was so deficient (having never heard the LP's..) - only 'wonder
> in amazement' that wildly boosting the treble, et al, had magically
> improved what was, at best, a 'cassette-tape' sound: a bit like
> leaving-off the Dolby B..you know - it becomes 'all so impressive'...
>
> But you have sufficient 'resources' to accumulate this stuff (like the
> 40,000 'unheard' radio broadcasts) - so, hopefully, your executors can
> find someone equally in awe of Mr Rose's 'achievements'...
Similarly, I really don't take you seriously as a critic of Rose's
work, The number of downloads you
have had is meaningless since they are free and many downloaders just
want to see how it sounds. Your statememts
about how easy it is for record companies to remaster is really one of
the funniest things I have read here
considering the abysmal quality of much of the result we get from e.g.
EMI. But most of all your personal animosity
for whatever reason is so apparent that it colors anything you say
about him. I like some of his work and some I don't
the ones I like I do because they just sound better than any other
versions I have heard and I am not alone in this
For whatever reason, e;g; professional jealousy at his success perhaps
you damn all of his work (which automaticallty
put up a red flag for me). Write what you wish about him - I just
don't take it seriously. Wagner fan
Message has been deleted
td
May 24, 2012, 5:53:04 AM5/24/12
to
On May 24, 4:55 am, frankwm <frankwmar...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> blah..blah..blah.
>
> ..so..did that Furtwangler/Brahms 1 sound 'like shit' to your
> octogenarian lug-holes - OR NOT ???
>
> ...and if folks just wanted 'to hear how it sounds' they'd only
> download ONE file - not, eg, ALL the Casals/Fournier/Mengelberg (etc,
> etc, etc).
>
> FYI: the Brahms - which I wouldn't expect to be particularly popular
> (due to any CD transfers) .aside from the original LP (which YOU HAVE
> NEVER HEARD - even if you have ALL the CD 'variants') - has been so
> far downloaded thus:
>
> Side ONE - FLAC: 159 ... WAV: 96
> Side TWO - FLAC: 152 ... WAV: 86
>
> ..presumably because of the superb-quality of > the transfer < -
> especially when contrasted to Rose's ersatz nonsense (indeed, his
> faking-about has led to a noticeable deterioration not just in the
> sound, per se, but also the 'tonal blending' of various sections of
> the orchestra)
>
> Anyhow; you're definitely 'not alone' when to comes to plugging his
> wares: quite a few bent-scum reviewers can be relied-upon to do that
> on a regular basis!!
>
> ps: I would't damn all his work as some 78 orchestral transfers are
> intriguingly fine - thus would use those as a reference for trial
> transfers of the same items: the same applies to mainly EMI LP
> transfers of such material: though they work from vinyl copies, if
> possible: hence no 'amateur' (such as Rose) could ever, theoretically,
> equal their results.
>
> But you're just a monied-obsessive...and Rose know he can easily screw-
> you on a regular basis- so I don't bother with your screaming-queen
> comments !!
He can't help it. Scream is what queens do.
TD
> blah..blah..blah.
>
> ..so..did that Furtwangler/Brahms 1 sound 'like shit' to your
> octogenarian lug-holes - OR NOT ???
>
> ...and if folks just wanted 'to hear how it sounds' they'd only
> download ONE file - not, eg, ALL the Casals/Fournier/Mengelberg (etc,
> etc, etc).
>
> FYI: the Brahms - which I wouldn't expect to be particularly popular
> (due to any CD transfers) .aside from the original LP (which YOU HAVE
> NEVER HEARD - even if you have ALL the CD 'variants') - has been so
> far downloaded thus:
>
> Side ONE - FLAC: 159 ... WAV: 96
> Side TWO - FLAC: 152 ... WAV: 86
>
> ..presumably because of the superb-quality of > the transfer < -
> especially when contrasted to Rose's ersatz nonsense (indeed, his
> faking-about has led to a noticeable deterioration not just in the
> sound, per se, but also the 'tonal blending' of various sections of
> the orchestra)
>
> Anyhow; you're definitely 'not alone' when to comes to plugging his
> wares: quite a few bent-scum reviewers can be relied-upon to do that
> on a regular basis!!
>
> ps: I would't damn all his work as some 78 orchestral transfers are
> intriguingly fine - thus would use those as a reference for trial
> transfers of the same items: the same applies to mainly EMI LP
> transfers of such material: though they work from vinyl copies, if
> possible: hence no 'amateur' (such as Rose) could ever, theoretically,
> equal their results.
>
> But you're just a monied-obsessive...and Rose know he can easily screw-
> you on a regular basis- so I don't bother with your screaming-queen
> comments !!
He can't help it. Scream is what queens do.
TD
td
May 24, 2012, 5:50:41 AM5/24/12
to
You only value what you pay for?
> and many downloaders just want to see how it sounds.
> Your statememts about how easy it is for record companies to remaster is really one of
> the funniest things I have read here
> considering the abysmal quality of much of the result we get from e.g.
> EMI.
> But most of all your personal animosity
> for whatever reason is so apparent that it colors anything you say
> about him.
this. It reveals your utter stupidity.
I like some of his work and some I don't
> the ones I like I do because they just sound better than any other
> versions I have heard and I am not alone in this
same way you do.
Sorry, Dickey, that is NOT a recommendation worth shit.
> For whatever reason, e;g; professional jealousy at his success perhaps
> you damn all of his work (which automaticallty
> put up a red flag for me). Write what you wish about him - I just
> don't take it seriously.
TD
Message has been deleted
ivanmaxim
May 24, 2012, 7:26:58 AM5/24/12
to
hysterical
replies only bolster my point that you really cannot address this
matter calmly and fairly.
So I will only close this out on my end by saying that I am very far
from being an octogenarian
(where did you pull that from???) but if you want the opnion of one,
ask Leakin Deacon.
Oh and take a pill!! You'll feel better I'm sure.
all the best
Wagner fan
Message has been deleted
Andrew Fell
May 24, 2012, 11:19:00 AM5/24/12
to
On May 22, 7:24 pm, wade <wadewo...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> On May 22, 12:12 am, Andrew Fell <hugefuk...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Why is a M O-T working for this shitty pirate? I would buy this disc
> > if it were on Naxos or some reputable label.
>
> And how is Naxos any different from Pristine? They are both doing the
> same thing, with differing degrees of intervention, just as any other
> individual or group producing transfers of recorded sound.
M O-T's work is AIUI largely predicated on fidelity to the original
> On May 22, 12:12 am, Andrew Fell <hugefuk...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Why is a M O-T working for this shitty pirate? I would buy this disc
> > if it were on Naxos or some reputable label.
>
> And how is Naxos any different from Pristine? They are both doing the
> same thing, with differing degrees of intervention, just as any other
> individual or group producing transfers of recorded sound.
recording (yes, I know that's a controversial concept) while Rose's
work is contrariwise predicated on altering it to make it 'sound nice'
without regard to fidelity. It's a bizarre association.
Naxos puts out (mostly) good transfers. It's true the odd one has been
disappointing, but they've never added fake stereo or any of the other
perverse distortions that Pristine imposes on recordings. They also
sell their discs at affordable prices, don't lie about what they're
selling, have cover art that doesn't induce strokes and vomiting and
refrain from dishonest condescending self-congratulatory bullshit in
their marketing.
NEITHER is
> operating with licenses to transfer from the legally recognized
> "owner" of the source material. You could make the same comparison
> between Dutton and Naxos. IMHO your analogy falls on its face.
say it again. Naxos is a reputable label producing fairly reliable
products, well-marketed and at affordable prices. Pristine is quite
the opposite. I find it surprising and regrettable that M O-T would
associate himself to such an extent with a hocus-pocus snake-oil
salesman like Rose, especially when Rose's product has a much more
limited audience than Naxos'.
Try thinking a little more before you weigh in, Wade.
weary flake
May 24, 2012, 11:56:15 AM5/24/12
to
> I wouldn't buy or take ANYONE's download as they have been part of
> the active EMI CD catalog for decades.
>
> the active EMI CD catalog for decades.
>
> Even if you are not (for such material) it can be interesting due to
> the latter-day mis-use of various 'sophisticated noise-
> reduction' (sic) systems for CD transfers - even from the original
> owner/manufacturer - which could render the sound inferior to earlier
> LP transfers of 78 material - or some LPs from tape...
>
> ...ie: Maria Callas - even from those who may be less
> 'interventionist' than Rosey: such as ObertThorn - who gets a kicking
> here: http://www.divinarecords.com/articles/callas_update.html ...as
> well as the CD's (in general)
>
> ....viz: "his overzealous use of CEDAR and personal preferences result
> in the diminution of midrange clarity and a dulled upper range with a
> loss of transparency and articulation..which is exactly what these
> latter-day 're-masterer's' inflict willy-nilly onto the source
> material - with tragic results...and which Professor Ear's transfers
> do not suffer from/or add to (but the older 78 transfers to LP still
> used some form/s of noise-reduction)..
I'm always happy to read attacks on noise reduction, and
> the latter-day mis-use of various 'sophisticated noise-
> reduction' (sic) systems for CD transfers - even from the original
> owner/manufacturer - which could render the sound inferior to earlier
> LP transfers of 78 material - or some LPs from tape...
>
> ...ie: Maria Callas - even from those who may be less
> 'interventionist' than Rosey: such as ObertThorn - who gets a kicking
> here: http://www.divinarecords.com/articles/callas_update.html ...as
> well as the CD's (in general)
>
> ....viz: "his overzealous use of CEDAR and personal preferences result
> in the diminution of midrange clarity and a dulled upper range with a
> loss of transparency and articulation..which is exactly what these
> latter-day 're-masterer's' inflict willy-nilly onto the source
> material - with tragic results...and which Professor Ear's transfers
> do not suffer from/or add to (but the older 78 transfers to LP still
> used some form/s of noise-reduction)..
other stupid automated filtering programs of the like.
weary flake
May 24, 2012, 12:01:41 PM5/24/12
to
wade <wade...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> On May 23, 5:10 am, "John Hood" <johnh...@iinet.net.au> wrote:
> > "Andrew Rose" <and...@pristineaudio.com> wrote in message
> On May 23, 5:10 am, "John Hood" <johnh...@iinet.net.au> wrote:
> > "Andrew Rose" <and...@pristineaudio.com> wrote in message
> Dont forget, the Hollywood Quartet series was issued on Testament. Of
> course THAT could be truly a definition of Pricey. Actually Amazon US
> has used copies in the $35 range.
US Amazon doesn't seem to like Testament. Try arkivmusic.com or
> course THAT could be truly a definition of Pricey. Actually Amazon US
> has used copies in the $35 range.
mdt.co.uk, I bought a couple of these CDs a while ago.
wade
May 24, 2012, 1:58:09 PM5/24/12
to
On May 24, 9:01 am, weary flake <wearyfl...@hotmail.com> wrote:
testament Hollywood Qt Beethovens:
http://www.amazon.com/Beethoven-String-Quartets-Ludwig-van/dp/B000003XKO/ref=sr_1_1?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1337882229&sr=1-1
http://www.amazon.com/Beethoven-String-Quartets-Ludwig-van/dp/B000003XKO/ref=sr_1_1?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1337882229&sr=1-1
wade
May 24, 2012, 1:08:53 PM5/24/12
to
Oscar
May 24, 2012, 2:05:25 PM5/24/12
to
Why this is marked as abuse? It has been marked as abuse.
Report not abuse
On May 24, 8:19 am, Andrew Fell wrote:
>
> Naxos puts out (mostly) good transfers. It's true the odd one has been
> disappointing, but they've never added fake stereo or any of the other
> perverse distortions that Pristine imposes on recordings.
Still, he has issued the best version of Pelléas et Mélisande by
>
> Naxos puts out (mostly) good transfers. It's true the odd one has been
> disappointing, but they've never added fake stereo or any of the other
> perverse distortions that Pristine imposes on recordings.
Désormière that I've heard. If you or anyone else knows where I can
find a superior version at reasonable price, please let me know. Vis-a-
vis the Pristine, EMI's 1989 References CD and 2007 GROC remaster did
not fare well in my A/B/C test.
Andrew Rose
May 25, 2012, 10:15:32 AM5/25/12
to
http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B002V9I74E/ref=dm_dp_cdp?ie=UTF8&s=music
wkasimer
May 25, 2012, 10:46:18 AM5/25/12
to
On May 25, 10:15 am, Andrew Rose <and...@pristineaudio.com> wrote:
> > Which is more expensive than a Naxos physical disc. I have nothing
> > against Pristine, Andrew, but your products are, in my opinion, vastly
> > overpriced, particularly since I expect to be among the last to hop on
> > the download bandwagon.
>
> That'll be a Naxos disc that costs £7.49 in the UK, Bill?
>
> http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B002V9I74E/ref=dm_dp_cdp?ie=UTF8&s...
> > Which is more expensive than a Naxos physical disc. I have nothing
> > against Pristine, Andrew, but your products are, in my opinion, vastly
> > overpriced, particularly since I expect to be among the last to hop on
> > the download bandwagon.
>
> That'll be a Naxos disc that costs £7.49 in the UK, Bill?
>
It only costs that much if I'm stupid and lazy enough to order it from
Amazon.uk. Try these instead:
http://www.mdt.co.uk/MDTSite/product//8111218.htm
http://www.prestoclassical.co.uk/r/Naxos/8111218
Bill
Dumbarton Oaks
May 25, 2012, 3:21:26 PM5/25/12
to
On 23 mayo, 10:43, frankwm <frankwmar...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> On May 23, 2:22 pm, Kimba W Lion<norepliesbyem...@norepliesbyemail.invalid> wrote:
>
>
> 'time/effort' is a red-herring when automated 'remastering' is the
> norm (especially for LPs)
>
> On May 23, 2:22 pm, Kimba W Lion<norepliesbyem...@norepliesbyemail.invalid> wrote:
>
>
> 'time/effort' is a red-herring when automated 'remastering' is the
> norm (especially for LPs)
>
> ie: the early
> 80's Hollywood/Beethoven would be also be doddle to transfer manually
> - let alone 'set the dial's' and wait a few minutes for all the
> various FLAC's/mp3's to be disgorged..
It's a common mistake believe that this transfers take a few minutes
> 80's Hollywood/Beethoven would be also be doddle to transfer manually
> - let alone 'set the dial's' and wait a few minutes for all the
> various FLAC's/mp3's to be disgorged..
or quick time.
It's true that declicker process could be automatized, but this is
only one part of the process.
A standard transfer take this steps:
a) the best possible transfer to the digital domain, with the correct
EQ non-RIAA curve when you're working with records that were issued
before 1954-56
b) pitch stabilization
c) Declicker
d) Decracle
e) Possible Hum problems
f) Hiss
g) surface noise that cannot be filtered automaticaly, you must
correct by hand on a spectral editor.
h) level of general background noise when this cannot removed
completly
i) Look for the most natural EQ for the recording.
j) ambient stereo
k) splitt the tracks
l) convert to the different formats, FLAC 24 bits, FLAC 16, MP3, etc.
It doesn't look like "wash and were".
Dumbarton Oaks
May 25, 2012, 3:51:02 PM5/25/12
to
possible, this items could be looked as easy when you are working with
33 RPM, but what happend when you work with different copies from
several sources, like 3 or 4 different pressings of the same 78 RPM. 2
sides taken from this set, 3 taken from an another, and 2 from a
third, and if you have to intercalate them, how to make sound
naturally? all this things are considered by professional transfers
like M-O-T.
Message has been deleted
Dumbarton Oaks
May 25, 2012, 3:57:44 PM5/25/12
to
> And I forgot to mention the problem of finding the best source
> possible, this items could be looked as easy when you are working with
> 33 RPM, but what happend when you work with different copies from
> several sources, like 3 or 4 different pressings of the same 78 RPM. 2
> sides taken from this set, 3 taken from an another, and 2 from a
> third, and if you have to intercalate them, how to make sound
> naturally? all this things are considered by professional transfers
> like M-O-T.
of time doing their jobs.
Message has been deleted
Dumbarton Oaks
May 25, 2012, 4:17:08 PM5/25/12
to
On 25 mayo, 16:59, frankwm <frankwmar...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > Hey, MOT and Mr Rose (for naming two of the best I know) waste a lot of time doing their jobs.
>
> ..and That should have read: "waste a lot of people's money doing
> > Hey, MOT and Mr Rose (for naming two of the best I know) waste a lot of time doing their jobs.
>
> their jobs (sic)"
Look, I don't try to convince anyone to buy their recordings, I only
said that there is a lot of work behind their products, and only for
this I respect them a lot, as I respect you for the high quality of
your transfers that are excelent sources for people like me that want
a more clean sound, and excelent recording for people that like the
natural sound of a record.
Abbeddrose Bierce
May 25, 2012, 4:22:41 PM5/25/12
to
On Fri, 25 May 2012 13:17:08 -0700 (PDT), Dumbarton Oaks
<varel...@gmail.com> wrote:
>hat like the
>natural sound of a record.
And the defensive pandering that made them juice them
<varel...@gmail.com> wrote:
>hat like the
>natural sound of a record.
Every harmonic, even if they are excessive, spurious and specious, is
sacred
Abbedd
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