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First impressions of the Karajan - 1970s box

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westover

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Aug 16, 2013, 3:15:44 PM8/16/13
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I will try to keep this to the point (it assumes a general knowledge of the box and its contents), but if there are any follow up questions I will be happy to clarify. I received mine earlier this week from Amazon.co.uk

price: I went for it when it was around 130 pounds. So knocking off the vat, the cheap shipping and credit card that doesn't pay foreign fees it came to around $175. From everything I could tell (from monitoring the 60s edition, which I don't have), that is the lower end of pricing which I would expect to show up from time to time on the various sights.

shipping: it had standard outer packaging but also came in a custom fit box that had a complete lining of styrofoam - very secure.

packaging: very nice as the promo video from dg shows (very similar to the 60s set from everything I can tell). In the big box there is a soft-cover, five replica session reports, and 82 discs contained in 4 separate containers. The single sleeves fit well enough, although the double album sleeves seem a little to snug. In general, the album art looks sharp (and even glossy). The book is nice enough with 3 three well-done (short) essays and complete track listings.

sound: there is no remastering info in the box, although from every indication it is the same as the Korean set (at the end of the book it says: "originally released in 2012 by Universal Music Limited, Korea"). Therefore, apparently not all of the set was remastered with the original bit processing (or whatever it is called)- unlike the 60s set. [There is a good review of the remastering of the korean version on amazon.com by Craig - and I have to agree - the sound on St. Matthew Passion is awesome despite there apparently not being any recent remastering (which is not one would expect from reading reviews of the 3cd set on Amazon]. I am listening to the Bruckner 7 right now which is listed as being remastered and it sounds better than what I remember the old one sounding.

minor quibbles:
- the book doesn't list the production dates (only the recording dates. And for the double albums the production dates isn't on the back either. Along these lines it is hard to peg down where the extra vivaldi comes from on the two vivaldi discs (not that I am complaining about extra music).
- most probably won't care about this one, but a few albums (beethoven's 5, and 7; a R. Strauss; Schoenberg; and an early Tchaikovsky symphony) do not have original albums (for each there is a picture of the album in the book), there tracks being put on other albums. So you have the situation where one of the Strauss albums is part of the 'original's series' but the "album" is not in this box. I would have preferred if they tried to reduce a couple more of the mahler and bruckner to one album (some are and some aren't) or if this was not possible to add a few more cds (they certainly would have fit in the containers).
- at least a couple of the albums have blurry liner notes on the back (I am thinking of the beethoven symphonies).

my verdict: it would have been nice if Universal had tweaked and enhanced the Asian version a little more, but overall this is a very nice box set.

Dana John Hill

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Aug 16, 2013, 5:51:44 PM8/16/13
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Thanks for the summary.

I have the 1960s set, and while I don't have any problems with the
mini-LP format and its short disc timing (truth be told, I actually find
listening in forty-minute blocks somewhat more convenient), I am puzzled
by a few of the layout choices. For example, Beethoven's 9th is spread
over two discs in the dumbest way. If I recall, the first movements are
on one disc, then the last movement is on another. But it isn't the
first track on the disc. Also, though the Beethoven overtures discs are
presented in a gatefold sleeve, other multi-disc recordings (Haydn's
Creation, etc.) are presented in two separate sleeves with an identical
cover. And whereas the single disc albums have the microscopic notes on
the back, the multi-disc albums have no notes. The backs of those
sleeves are just blank. If they were really committed to the format,
they'd have been housed in a miniature cap box with a paper leaflet
inside with tiny text.

Trivial stuff, though. The music's good and the price is excellent.

Dana John Hill
Gainesville, Florida

Steve de Mena

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Aug 16, 2013, 10:53:46 PM8/16/13
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> Also, though the Beethoven
> overtures discs are presented in a gatefold sleeve, other multi-disc
> recordings (Haydn's Creation, etc.) are presented in two separate
> sleeves with an identical cover.

The Beethoven Overtures were originally issued in a gatefold double
sleeve. The Creation, etc, were in boxes.

Steve

Dana John Hill

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Aug 17, 2013, 11:11:46 AM8/17/13
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Precisely. If DG had wanted to go all-in, so to speak, they would have
made a little cap box with paper sleeves to put inside the big box of 82
discs. It would have been a lot of effort for something trivial, but it
would make more sense than two separate sleeves with blank backs.

I don't have any two-disc sets in cap boxes, but I do have a few
three-disc sets in cap boxes with paper sleeves, so I think it's
technically possible. Again, I'm just being silly here taking the
mini-LP concept to its most extreme conclusion.

westover

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Aug 17, 2013, 11:41:28 AM8/17/13
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One thing I did like with the 70s edition is how they replicated the Carl Orff album. There is only one cd but it opens like a double cd with addition cover art inside - kind of like gould's second Goldberg in the bach box.

westover

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Aug 17, 2013, 2:38:26 PM8/17/13
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I just realized that the production year is on the cd itself, so that is good, although I would still have liked to see it in the book.

And there is a typo for the Mutter Beethoven concerto (cd 74) with no year provided for the recording. I am assuming, though, that it was in 1979 following the chronological sequence.

Felix Hack

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Sep 16, 2013, 4:09:41 PM9/16/13
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I received my copy of this set last week from Amazon USA. I've gone through 30 discs to rip them to my music library (FLAC/lossless), and found that the sleeve for CD 3 held a second copy of CD 2. Bother.

-Felix

Dana John Hill

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Sep 16, 2013, 4:41:54 PM9/16/13
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On 9/16/2013 4:09 PM, Felix Hack wrote:
> I received my copy of this set last week from Amazon USA. I've gone through 30 discs to rip them to my music library (FLAC/lossless), and found that the sleeve for CD 3 held a second copy of CD 2. Bother.
>

Fear of this sort of thing is what has motivated me to check each disc
of my recent mega-box purchases. I remember reading of some people's
troubles with the EMI Karajan box.

The good news for you is that Amazon probably won't give you a hard time
about this.

George

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Sep 16, 2013, 4:45:02 PM9/16/13
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On Monday, September 16, 2013 4:09:41 PM UTC-4, Felix Hack wrote:
> I received my copy of this set last week from Amazon USA. I've gone through 30 discs to rip them to my music library (FLAC/lossless), and found that the sleeve for CD 3 held a second copy of CD 2. Bother.
>
>
>
> -Felix
I'm planning to purchase a download version of it to save myself riping, download contains electronic booklet but it does not contain cd sleeve images. Is this something that you could share when done ?

Mort

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Sep 16, 2013, 5:40:22 PM9/16/13
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Hi,

I have had several such problems. Amazon USA requested that I return
the offending box sets with their prepaid mailer. However, in one case
amazon.de allowed me about $7.- postage when the actual cost was about
$40.-. There went my bargain. Most companies do not keep single discs
in stock, so a missing or dupe CD means that the entire box must be sent
back. On another such occasion, Amazon.de was kind enough to tell me to
keep the box or donate it to charity, as the return postage was not
worth it to them. I thought that that was very nice of them.

I therefore inspect the CD numbers and playing surfaces carefully
whenever a new disc or box of discs arrives. Yet, at as low as $2.- per
disc, we cannot expect perfection.

Regards,

Mort Linder

Oscar

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Sep 16, 2013, 6:05:11 PM9/16/13
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My set is similarly afflicted. Had not discovered this, so thank you. Email dispatched to ImportCDs.com. Will report back upon receipt of their reply.

Felix Hack

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Sep 16, 2013, 6:10:20 PM9/16/13
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On Monday, September 16, 2013 1:45:02 PM UTC-7, George wrote:
> I'm planning to purchase a download version of it to save myself riping, download contains electronic booklet but it does not contain cd sleeve images. Is this something that you could share when done ?
<

I don't scan my own images, sorry.

For the 1970s box I found official 250 px cover images here:

http://album.deutschegrammophon.com/karajan-1970s/home.html

Unfortunately the resolution is quite inferior to the 500 px images available for the 1960s box:

http://www.deutschegrammophon.com/us/html/special/karajanedition/index.html

-Felix
Message has been deleted

George

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Sep 16, 2013, 9:25:26 PM9/16/13
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No problem, and thanks for the links, especially 1960's is sufficient. If only they provided an image of back inlay, qobuz.com does that sometimes.

George

Lionel Tacchini

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Sep 17, 2013, 2:32:14 AM9/17/13
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Damn, CD 3 wasn't produced at all for this batch of boxes ...
I suppose people can still listen to it on Spotify and whistle it from
memory after a couple of times, though.
--
Lionel Tacchini
"Ach, Du lieber Augustin, alles ist hin ..."

Steve de Mena

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Sep 17, 2013, 4:07:21 AM9/17/13
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I looked at CDs 1-4 at the inner label catalog number on the playing
side and they look unique I think I got an OK set. Amazon US

Steve

Richard Sandmeyer

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Sep 17, 2013, 4:17:25 AM9/17/13
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In article <Mvadncijf64lkKXP...@giganews.com>,
same here. I even played part of each of the first four CDs to make
sure they were different -- they were. Still I appreciate the OP's
calling the flaw to our attention since it may well be a while before I
finish listening to the entire set and encounter any duplicates or
omissions (and I have received sets with the incorrect content a few
times in the past.)

Concerning another box set, I received e-mail from amazon.ca that they
have shipped my Reiner CSO box. Two large box sets added to my
collection in such a short period will mean lots of listening (and
cataloguing) in the next few months.

George

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Sep 17, 2013, 9:26:42 AM9/17/13
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Given this sad situation, I wonder if sharing of CD-R version of the missing disc by rightful owners will be acceptable and easier than returning the whole lot and hopping for the best that next shipment is from a different shift ?

George

Frank Berger

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Sep 17, 2013, 10:39:12 AM9/17/13
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Has it occurred to anyone to have the manufacturer supply the missing disk?

Randy Lane

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Sep 17, 2013, 12:17:03 PM9/17/13
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On Monday, September 16, 2013 3:05:11 PM UTC-7, Oscar wrote:
> On Monday, September 16, 2013 1:09:41 PM, Felix Hack wrote: > > I received my copy of this set last week from Amazon USA. I've gone through > 30 discs to rip them to my music library (FLAC/lossless), and found that the > sleeve for CD 3 held a second copy of CD 2. Bother. My set is similarly afflicted. Had not discovered this, so thank you. Email dispatched to ImportCDs.com. Will report back upon receipt of their reply.

I have the Korean version, but I am working out-of-town and therefore am "away" from my collection/library/man-cave for a while. Can't check it for a few weeks.

Steve de Mena

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Sep 18, 2013, 3:41:53 AM9/18/13
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On 9/17/13 6:26 AM, George wrote:

>> "Ach, Du lieber Augustin, alles ist hin ..."
> Given this sad situation, I wonder if sharing of CD-R version of the missing disc by rightful owners will be acceptable and easier than returning the whole lot and hopping for the best that next shipment is from a different shift ?
>
> George
>

If I bought a box set and they didn't send me enough reurn postage to
send it back (as someone reported) I wouldn't be sad. I'd be pissed
and never do business with them again. That's why I like Amazon. It
might take a few shipments of multiple boxes (on their dime) but I
think you'll eventually get the correct CD or your money back.

I personally have no problems making a CD-R of a disc I know someone
rightfully owns, regardless of the "legality" in our respective countries.

Steve

richard...@gmail.com

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Sep 21, 2013, 4:21:23 PM9/21/13
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I don't have this Karajan set, but I did write to mdt.co.uk after getting a set with a missing disc. A week or two later it arrived- no fuss, no charge.

westover

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Sep 24, 2013, 10:40:01 AM9/24/13
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בתאריך יום שלישי, 17 בספטמבר 2013 16:26:42 UTC+3, מאת George:

> Given this sad situation, I wonder if sharing of CD-R version of the missing disc by rightful owners will be acceptable and easier than returning the whole lot and hopping for the best that next shipment is from a different shift ?
>
>
>
> George

I got mine from Amazon.co.uk and it was fine. I could send you a scanned copy of the album art if you are still interested.

A while back I contacted DG directly regarding a corrupted track from an album in the Complete Brahms box. I was hoping that they would let me download a lossless version, but instead they wanted me to mail them the disc to Berlin, which wasn't ideal for me at the time.

Since this is evidently a widescale problem maybe DG can work it out with Amazon to send the disc in question, as opposed to having everyone send their box back. (I thought I remembered Hank Drake mentioning that this occurred when a similar situation happened with the Rubinstein box....but I can't find it now in his amazon review).

- Mike

George

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Sep 24, 2013, 11:28:59 AM9/24/13
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On Tuesday, September 24, 2013 10:40:01 AM UTC-4, westover wrote:
> בתאריך יום שלישי, 17 בספטמבר 2013 16:26:42 UTC+3, מאת George:
>
>
>
> > Given this sad situation, I wonder if sharing of CD-R version of the missing disc by rightful owners will be acceptable and easier than returning the whole lot and hopping for the best that next shipment is from a different shift ?
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > George
>
>
>
> I got mine from Amazon.co.uk and it was fine. I could send you a scanned copy of the album art if you are still interested.
>
If you can email the scanned art that would be great. I have downloaded the box from qobuz.com so have the pdf booklet, but no album art.

Can you see my email address ? I'm not sure how this works.

George

westover

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Sep 24, 2013, 1:07:45 PM9/24/13
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בתאריך יום שלישי, 24 בספטמבר 2013 18:28:59 UTC+3, מאת George:

> >
>
> If you can email the scanned art that would be great. I have downloaded the box from qobuz.com so have the pdf booklet, but no album art.
>
>
>
> Can you see my email address ? I'm not sure how this works.
>
>
>
> George

I don't see your email address but if you could post it in "code" (masking it somehow so that trolling software doesn't pick it up and send you junk) then I can email it to you. (and/or you can delete your post I believe after I confirm that I get it)

-Mike
Message has been deleted

Oscar

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Sep 24, 2013, 7:34:05 PM9/24/13
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On Monday, September 16, 2013 3:05:11 PM, Oscar wrote:
>
> > I received my copy of this set last week from Amazon USA. I've gone through
> > 30 discs to rip them to my music library (FLAC/lossless), and found that the
> > sleeve for CD 3 held a second copy of CD 2. Bother.
>
> My set is similarly afflicted. Had not discovered this, so thank you. Email dispatched
> to ImportCDs.com. Will report back upon receipt of their reply.

ImportCD's told me to return the box for full refund. They don't do exchanges. So I wrote DG. Today I received a reply:

<< Dear Oscar,

Thank you very much for your email and your interest in Deutsche Grammophon!

We are very sorry for the inconvenience you have experienced!

If the retail store where you bought the product is not able to replace the box set, please send the duplicate to the following address for a replacement:

Deutsche Grammophon GmbH
Nastasia Mohren
Stralauer Allee 1
10245 Berlin
Germany

With best wishes,
Rosanna Sibora

Deutsche Grammophon Customer Service Team >>

Steve de Mena

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Oct 3, 2013, 1:36:30 AM10/3/13
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Why not just post the scanned file to a public accessible source and
send us the link?

I'll look at the thread and find out the disk # and do that myself.

Steve

Steve de Mena

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Oct 3, 2013, 1:46:33 AM10/3/13
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Steve de Mena

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Oct 3, 2013, 4:04:01 AM10/3/13
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This BACK cover link might look a little better!

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1220391/Karajan-70s-CD3-Back-Mendelssohn.jpg

Steve

Steve de Mena

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Oct 3, 2013, 4:06:11 AM10/3/13
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Another tip if you want to post a photo free, and you're on Twitter,
is to tweet the photo to yourself in a directed tweet, then make a
note of the URL for the picture, and post that URL.

I used Dropbox, which gives you 2GB free, and you can right click on
any of your files and get a public direct link.

Steve

westover

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Oct 6, 2013, 3:26:39 PM10/6/13
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בתאריך יום חמישי, 3 באוקטובר 2013 11:04:01 UTC+3, מאת Steven de Mena:

> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1220391/Karajan-70s-CD3-Back-Mendelssohn.jpg
>
>
>
> Steve

Good Idea Steve. Thanks. Any chance you could post all the back covers in a zip file or something? I cannot get my scanner to handle the small font. If not I understand.

-Mike

Steve de Mena

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Oct 10, 2013, 3:48:27 PM10/10/13
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I just don't think I'll have the time, but I'll leave your message
marked "unread" so I keep seeing it in case I have time.

Does you scanner software have a way to set the dpi (dots per inch). I
used 300 dpi to make that scan. I don't know the resolution of my
scanner offhand. (Epson 4490 Photo).

Oh it's Optical Resolution: 4800 dpi
$130 closeout price
http://www.epson.com/cgi-bin/Store/jsp/Product.do?BV_UseBVCookie=yes&sku=B11B176011

Steve

westover

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Oct 12, 2013, 5:33:40 PM10/12/13
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בתאריך יום חמישי, 10 באוקטובר 2013 22:48:27 UTC+3, מאת Steven de Mena:

>
> I just don't think I'll have the time, but I'll leave your message
>
> marked "unread" so I keep seeing it in case I have time.
>
>
>
> Does you scanner software have a way to set the dpi (dots per inch). I
>
> used 300 dpi to make that scan. I don't know the resolution of my
>
> scanner offhand. (Epson 4490 Photo).
>
>
>
> Oh it's Optical Resolution: 4800 dpi
>
> $130 closeout price
>
> http://www.epson.com/cgi-bin/Store/jsp/Product.do?BV_UseBVCookie=yes&sku=B11B176011
>
>
>
> Steve

Hi Steve, My post was assuming you had already scanned them all, so sorry about that. Please don't go to the trouble just on my account.

And thanks about the info regarding the scanners. My scanner (an HP office jet 4500) did a great job with the back covers from the Van Cliburn and Fleischer sets. I cranked up the DPI over a thousand and the text came out crystal clear. Also, the file size wasn't that bad since they are black and white. For the front covers I also have a high DPI but then I use publisher to crop and save as a jpeg which gets the file size to the 200 kb range.

It works quite nice in my attempts to digitize everything, but for some reason the scans go all blurry with the extra small font on the back covers of the Karajan. I guess I will try again whenever I upgrade my scanner (an added benefitted of having suitable scan of the back covers is that one can actually read them without getting a headache).

Thanks again,
Mike

pierre....@gmail.com

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Dec 24, 2018, 5:39:09 AM12/24/18
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