Offenbach-Orpheus in Hades
Franck-Allegretto from Symphony in D
Debussy-Festivals from "Nocturnes"
Prokofiev-March & Scherzo from "The Love of Three Oranges"
Heyward-Gershwin-Summertime from "Porgy and Bess"
Dinicu-Heifetz-Hora Staccato
Rimsky-Korsakov-The Young Prince and the Young Princess from
"Scheherazade"
Gliere-Russian Sailor's Dance from "The Red Poppy"
My question is where would this have been recorded? From what I've
read in earlier posts about the Columbia Symphony, there were at least
two separate groups, one in NYC & one assembled in California for
Bruno Walter(coaxed out of retirement while living near Los Angeles).
A post from this group dated July 8, 2000 has one Ira Kraemer("Ibkco")
stating that NYC recordings were at the Columbia 30th St. studios-a
venue that some view as the nadir of classical recording in the 1950s.
But this Lp, ML-4337, has a copyright year of 1950 on it, & nothing in
the liner notes make any mention of a recording venue. Was the 30th
St. studio in existence at this time? I'm guessing that a Masterworks
Lp with a 1950 issue year may contain recordings made earlier. I'm
aware that Columbia was mastering on laquers from the early 1940s on,
& this disc certainly sounds it. The sound quality is quite rich &
full, with great clarity & presence for a 1950 issue. This is a far
cry from many of the first Lps of 1948 that I've heard, some of which
can sound rather distant(ML-4033 comes to mind, Rodzinski's "Pictures
at an Exhibition"-not enough sonic impact for the piece). Like the
first electrical "Orthophonic" 78s of 1925 compared to those of 1927 &
later, the 1948 Lps seem to be on a lesser sonic plateau than those of
just two years later. And so I'm curious as to the recording location,
as this record sounds really good, & is a pretty clean
pressing(minimal surface noise here).
For those interested, the other Lps were:
ML-4156 Mozart-Sym. N.35 "Haffner", Bach-Suite N.2 in B-minor, Reiner
& Pittsburgh Symphony, 1949
ML-5188 Berlioz-Symphonie Fantastique, Mitropoulos & Philharmonic-
Symphony of New York, 1957(was this an early stereo recording issued
as a mono Lp as so many were at RCA in the '50s?)
ML-5258 "Sorrento", Richard Tucker, with Alfedo Antonini & Columbia
Concert Orchestra(???)-Italian songs & ballads, 1958(again, was there
a stereo issue of this? 1958 being the pivotal year for stereo Lps)
ML-5087 Vivaldi-Concerto in A-minor, Bach-Violin Concertos N.1 in A-
minor & N.2 in E-major, Stern, Oistrakh, Ormandy & Philadelphia, 1956
Cook 1094 The Seven Last Words of Christ, Boston Chorale directed by
Willis Page, Reginald Foort-organist, soloists Margo Stagliano-
soprano, Mac Morgan-baritone, Carl Nelson-tenor
Dennis "360 Guaranteed High Fidelity" Forkel
I went to the Michael Gray American Columbia Discography at CHARM
http://www.charm.kcl.ac.uk/content/gray_disco/
and found ML-4337 there.
The contents of ML-4337 were recorded at the Columbia 30th Street Studio
on April 28, April 29, and May 1, 1950.
Best regards,
Thomas Liebert
There were two Rodzinski/"Columbia Symphony Orchestra" LPs for
Columbia. Both were made in 1950, in Columbia's 30th Street Studio in
New York City. The Bruno Walter "Columbia Symphony Orchestra" things
didn't start until years later -- in California in 1958.
The 1950 Rodzinski titles were made on tape. The company abandoned
wax/lacquer mastering in 1948, at the end of the second Petrillo/Union
recording ban.
Rodzinski's NYPSO Pictures, ML 4033, was dubbed from lacquer masters
made before the advent of tape. That's why the sound isn't as vivid as
the 1950 LPs.
>
> For those interested, the other Lps were:
>
> ML-4156 Mozart-Sym. N.35 "Haffner", Bach-Suite N.2 in B-minor, Reiner
> & Pittsburgh Symphony, 1949
All recorded before the use of tape.
> ML-5188 Berlioz-Symphonie Fantastique, Mitropoulos & Philharmonic-
> Symphony of New York, 1957(was this an early stereo recording issued
> as a mono Lp as so many were at RCA in the '50s?)
Yes, an early stereo recording issued in both mono and stereo
formats. Stereo: MS 6030. Recorded February 24 1957, 30th Street
Studios.
Hope this helps. Best wishes --
Don Tait
The 30th Street Studio was in a building leased by Columbia in the
late 1940s. The last recording to be made there was Glenn Gould’s 1981
disc of Bach’s Golberg Variations. A report in Time (1953) described
the building’s unusual transformation: ‘Times have changed for the
brick building at 207 East 30th Street, that was once the Adams
Memorial Presbyterian Church. The stained-glass windows are bricked
up, the pews are gone, and in place of the organ there is a glass-
fronted control room which bristles with switches, plugs and dials.’
I believe the year Columbia took on this building was 1948, so it's
certainly possible that some of the Rodzinski disc was made there.
Don,
Bruno Walter made a few recordings with a New York "Columbia Symphony
Orchestra" before he left New York for California. They include:
ML-4699 Mozart Arias sung by George London
ML-4694 Mozart Arias sung by Eleanor Steber
DSL-224 Mozart Symphony No 36 (with rehearsal)
ML-5004 Mozart Overtures and Eine Kleine Nachtmusik
ML-5002 Mozart Symphonies 25 and 28
ML-5113 Johann Strauss, Jr.
All Mozart except for one Johann Strauss, Jr. LP. I assume that the
Columbia Symphony was less costly than the New York Philharmonic for
Mozart. Union rules probably required them to pay all the musicians in
the New York Philharmonic even when only a few musicians were required.
Remember that most of the Mozart Piano Concerto recordings with George
Szell and the Cleveland Orchestra were billed as the "Columbia Symphony
Orchestra" until some time in the 1960s when they were allowed to be
billed as "Members of the Cleveland Orchestra". However, I don't think
that Bruno Walter's New York Columbia Symphony was made up of only New
York Philharmonic musicians. IIRC, in the rehearsal for the Mozart
Symphony No 36, he speaks to Mr. Bloom (oboe) and Mr. Glickman (bassoon).
Hope you don't think I'm being too nit-picky - just wanted to avoid any
confusion.
Best regards,
Thomas Liebert
I know you were writing this to Don - but thanks for the clarification
anyway!
Just to add (and thanks for the reference to CHARM - I had bookmarked
it long ago but forgot I had) the Walter Columbia Mozart ML 5004 has
Mozart's Masonic Funeral Music and 3 German Dances (one of the latter
was not re-recorded in the later stereo duplication of this record).
Hauser
Thomas,
No, I don't think you are being nit-picky at all. I made a stupid
mistake in saying that Walter's "Columbia Symphony Orchestra"
recordings were all made on the West Coast. I was thinking of the
stereo titles, and just plowed ahead without stopping to think. I know
the mono, New York-made titles you listed well; Ive owned and
treasured them for many years. I feel embarrassed. Thanks for being
such a gentleman about it. And may I add another mono Walter title to
your list?
ML 5375 Mozart: Symphony no. 29, coupled with the Mozart "Linz"
originally issued in the two-record set.
Don Tait
Thanks, Don!
I'd forgotten about ML-5375. Columbia recorded the Symphonies 25, 28,
and 29 (with the Columbia Symphony) in December, 1954. They released 25
and 28 soon thereafter, but waited several years to release 29 (with the
previously released 36 as you pointed out).
Columbia also recorded the Mozart Symphony No 38 (with the NY
Philharmonic) in December, 1954, but that wasn't released (I believe)
until the CD era (at least in the USA). [A discography I saw indicated
that 38 was issued on a Philips LP, but doesn't provide a catalog number
or country, just that it was not issued on LP in the USA. Do you know
anything about that Philips LP?]
I wonder if Columbia had planned to release 29 coupled with 38, but
Walter rejected 38 for some reason (and then his estate approved its
release on CD)?
Regards,
Thomas
[edit]
> Thanks, Don!
>
> I'd forgotten about ML-5375. Columbia recorded the Symphonies 25, 28,
> and 29 (with the Columbia Symphony) in December, 1954. They released 25
> and 28 soon thereafter, but waited several years to release 29 (with the
> previously released 36 as you pointed out).
>
> Columbia also recorded the Mozart Symphony No 38 (with the NY
> Philharmonic) in December, 1954, but that wasn't released (I believe)
> until the CD era (at least in the USA). [A discography I saw indicated
> that 38 was issued on a Philips LP, but doesn't provide a catalog number
> or country, just that it was not issued on LP in the USA. Do you know
> anything about that Philips LP?]
>
> I wonder if Columbia had planned to release 29 coupled with 38, but
> Walter rejected 38 for some reason (and then his estate approved its
> release on CD)?
>
> Regards,
> Thomas
Hello, Thomas --
Thanks for your reply to my message.
I've often wondered whether the appearance of Walter's Mozart 29 on
Columbia ML 5375 was an attempt by the company to get remaining mono-
only recordings on the market before the new stereo LPs made such
recordings completely unprofitable. ML 5375 was issued sometime in
1958, I believe, when stereo LPs were just "coming in."
Like you, I have wondered whether the coupling of no. 29 (previously
unreleased) with the "Linz" that had come out in the two-LP rehearsal/
performance set a couple of years earlier represented a compromise --
coupling a new title with a reissue (even if the reissue of 36 did
make it available for the first time on a single record without the
rehearsals, and thus for much less money). Which leads to the 1954
NYPSO Mozart "Prague" with Walter. Columbia might certainly have
intended to issue that with no. 29, as you speculated. As you also
speculated, Walter must have withheld his approval for the "Prague"
and left Columbia with the need to couple 29 with the "Linz."
What information do you have about a reported Philips LP of the 1954
Walter/NYPSO "Prague" in Europe? I have much paperwork here, but can't
now find such a reference. Regarding the NYPSO recording, I'd known
since the seventies that it had been made but not issued. I confess
that when it was finally issued by Sony Classical some years ago I
eagerly bought it, only to find it a bitter disappointment: heavy,
almost depressing, and in wretched sound. Ghastly sound. A far cry
from Walter's miraculously joyous Vienna PO 78s of circa 1937 and the
live VPO account of circa 1955 issued by DG. If Walter rejected the
NYPSO recording, I can hear why. What do you think?
Thanks again.
Don Tait
Hello once again, Don --
Here is the Bruno Walter discography that I was referring to:
http://www.geocities.com/walteriana76/BWrecordsB.htm
For the 1954 Symphony No 38, they simply say
LP: Philips (first issue)
CD: Sony Classical SM2K 64474 (first US issue)
I also looked this recording up in Michael Gray's American Columbia
Discography on CHARM. He simply shows "Sony Classical SM2K 64474, SM3K
64121" which of course are the CD releases.
Several years ago, I purchased Vol. 3 of "Bruno Walter - The Edition"
SX10K 66248 containing 10 CDs of the music of Brahms (from California),
Mozart (from New York), plus a few odds & ends of Schubert, Beethoven,
and Bruckner. To tell you the truth, I didn't particularly care for any
of the Mozart, but I loved the Brahms (4 Symphonies, Haydn Variations,
Tragic Overture, Academic Festival Overture, Song of Destiny, Double
Concerto). The Mozart portion included all the New York Symphonies, the
rehearsal for Sym No 36 (containing more than was on the LP), and the
Requiem.
However, I also have the Bruno Walter recordings of Mozart's last six
symphonies from California, and I like those very much.
One problem I have with Bruno Walter's New York recordings is that I
have great difficulty enjoying the recordings that Columbia was making
in New York during the 1950s (prior to stereo). Their sound really turns
me off. Even when I was a kid, just getting started listening to
classical music in the mid-1950s, I didn't like the sound of Columbia's
recordings (on my very low-fi phonograph). As a result, I stayed away
from Bruno Walter's recordings. My first recording of the Mozart Prague
was Otto Klemperer's 1956 recording with the Philharmonia Orchestra. The
mid-1950s Columbia recording of the Mozart Symphonies 35 and 36 with
Beecham and the Royal Philharmonic sounded great to me, as did the
performances.
It's been several years since I listened to these New York Mozart
recordings of Bruno Walter, but I don't recall the Prague sounding any
worse than the rest. And I certainly wouldn't argue with your "wretched
sound. Ghastly sound" characterization. (I'll have to listen again to
see if I think the Prague sounds any worse than the rest.)
I don't know why I react this way to the sound of these Columbia
recordings - I usually have no problems enjoying recordings with
less-than-stellar sound. I even like Koussevitzky's 1947 RCA recordings
of Beethoven's 9th Symphony and Ravel's Bolero, recorded in the
Tanglewood Music Shed.
But enough of my rambling.
We should instead have an RMCR "Treasure Hunt" contest to see who can be
the first to identify the mystery Philips LP of Bruno Walter's 1954 New
York recording of Mozart's Prague Symphony and post a scan of the
jacket. ;-)
Thanks again, Don, for the interesting discussion!
Best regards,
Thomas Liebert
[more editing....]
> Hello once again, Don --
>
> Here is the Bruno Walter discography that I was referring to:
>
> http://www.geocities.com/walteriana76/BWrecordsB.htm
>
> For the 1954 Symphony No 38, they simply say
> LP: Philips (first issue)
> CD: Sony Classical SM2K 64474 (first US issue)
>
> I also looked this recording up in Michael Gray's American Columbia
> Discography on CHARM. He simply shows "Sony Classical SM2K 64474, SM3K
> 64121" which of course are the CD releases.
Yes. I know that discography. It's a brave effort and is much
improved, but there are errors and omissions. I hesitate to make a
final pronouncement, but I'd be willing to bet that the citation of a
Philips LP for Walter's 1954 NYPSO Prague is mere speculation. I've
been reading about Walter's recordings and keeping a discography of my
own since 1960, and I have never heard of such an LP. However, there
could have been one. I'd be inclined to trust Mike Gray, though. He
has access to official information.
> One problem I have with Bruno Walter's New York recordings is that I
> have great difficulty enjoying the recordings that Columbia was making
> in New York during the 1950s (prior to stereo). Their sound really turns
> me off. Even when I was a kid, just getting started listening to
> classical music in the mid-1950s, I didn't like the sound of Columbia's
> recordings (on my very low-fi phonograph). As a result, I stayed away
> from Bruno Walter's recordings. My first recording of the Mozart Prague
> was Otto Klemperer's 1956 recording with the Philharmonia Orchestra. The
> mid-1950s Columbia recording of the Mozart Symphonies 35 and 36 with
> Beecham and the Royal Philharmonic sounded great to me, as did the
> performances.
>
> It's been several years since I listened to these New York Mozart
> recordings of Bruno Walter, but I don't recall the Prague sounding any
> worse than the rest. And I certainly wouldn't argue with your "wretched
> sound. Ghastly sound" characterization. (I'll have to listen again to
> see if I think the Prague sounds any worse than the rest.)
>
> I don't know why I react this way to the sound of these Columbia
> recordings - I usually have no problems enjoying recordings with
> less-than-stellar sound. I even like Koussevitzky's 1947 RCA recordings
> of Beethoven's 9th Symphony and Ravel's Bolero, recorded in the
> Tanglewood Music Shed.
I agree about how unpleasant Walter's New York recordings sound.
I've devoted a lot of thought, plus some collecting effort, to that
matter of how ghastly Columbia's 1949-58 New York City orchestral
recordings sound. And I don't think it's just Walter's "Columbia
Symphony" recordings. It affects the NYPSO's as well, including those
with him, Stokowski, Mitropoulos, and others.
I am convinced that it's because of Columbia's 30th Street Studio.
It was apparently fine for solo intrumental, chamber, pop, and jazz
recordings that didn't involve a lot of performers. But for a symphony
orchestra, Robert Marsh put it perfectly in his circa-1958 High
Fidelity review of the Beethoven and Brahms overtures collection with
Walter and the NYPSO (ML 5232): "This is a large orchestra playing in
a small space." The problem seems to have been compounded by
Columbia's colorless recorded orchestral sound.
To try to make this at least a bit succinct: over the years I have
obtained multiple issued LP masterings of NYPSO and other Columbia
recordings, and they clearly demonstrate a progressive addition of
artificial reverberation, treble-peaking, and so on. The earliest
pressings of 30th Street-made recordings have clean, clear, but
virtually resonance-free sound. ("...a small space.") The later the
masterings get, the more artificial the sound is: boomy, shrill,
tonally thin and hollow. For just one, early and later pressings of
Mozart's 25th and 28th symphonies with Walter (ML 5002) are excellent
examples of this. What's even more regrettable is that CD reissues of
this material seem to have the late effects of the "lab work" at its
worst. As if the people at Sony had just grabbed the last edition of
the master -- or the early, undoctored versions couldn't be had. (My
negative feelings about the NYPSO Prague might be partly due to the
wretched recorded sound; it sounds as if it had been through the
Columbia treatment.)
So I'm not surprised that the sound of Walter's 30th Street 1950s
recordings has turned you off.
> But enough of my rambling.
And of mine!
> We should instead have an RMCR "Treasure Hunt" contest to see who can be
> the first to identify the mystery Philips LP of Bruno Walter's 1954 New
> York recording of Mozart's Prague Symphony and post a scan of the
> jacket. ;-)
Yes. Beginning with the compilers of the on-line Walter discography.
>
> Best regards,
> Thomas Liebert
The same from me.
Don Tait
Dear Mr.Liebert,
My name is Steven Reveyoso. I am both an old friend of Don Tait's and
one of the contributors to the online Bruno Walter Discography. I
compiled the material covering Mahler through Mozart on that project
back in 2000 and originally included the detail concerning Walter's
1954 NYP recording of Mozart's "Prague" Symphony. I own two copies of
what I believe is its only LP issue - Philips L 01.343 L. This was
released only in France and was the only issue in any form until it
appeared in 1995 as part of the Sony Classical "Bruno Walter Edition".
I know earlier editions of our discography contained the issue number.
I'm not sure how it was later removed. My thanks to you and Don for
raising this point and will have to alert Erik Ryding so that this
error will be permanently corrected. I have long been indedted to Don
for making me aware of this recording back in 1976 when he discussed
it in his Walter Centennial series on WFMT in Chicago when I was
living there (I now live in New York City). It was about a decade ago
when I stumbled upon two copies of that LP, a beautiful gatefold
package, which coupled this performance with the 1955 Columbia
Symphony "Linz" performance. I would imagine that this was issued for
the Mozart year 1956. Ever since I became a product buyer when I
managed a couple of Classical departments here in Manhattan years ago,
I "campaigned" for the issue of this and the until recently unissued
Bruckner 7th (just brought out by Testament). Not that I take any
credit for their eventual release, but very much pleasure in them
being a life long Bruno Walter admirer, collector and completist. Hope
you find this helpful and thanks, again, to you and Don for the "heads
up" about the Philips info - or lack thereof - regarding the "Prague"
Symphony. Best wishes.
Sincerely,
Steven Reveyoso
Dear Friends,
An additional note: please stay "tuned in" - a scan of that Philips
cover is "on the way". I have a very fine professional scanner here
and will provide that very artwork soon. Fabulous idea!!!!!!!!!!!!
Best,
Steve
Steven,
Thank you SO much, my friend.
Don Tait
Dear Steven,
You are so very kind to have taken the time and effort to provide this
unbelievably obscure information - and a scan, too!!!
Thank you!
Best regards,
Thomas Liebert
> (snip)
> (snip)
>
> Don Tait
>
Thanks, Don - I really appreciate your comments. I didn't realize that
there was this change in quality from early to late pressings.
I agree that all the New York Philharmonic (and Columbia Symphony)
recordings made in the 30th Street Studio (at least the ones that I have
heard) are bad, not just Bruno Walter's.
I recall reading somewhere that Columbia used an empty stairwell in one
of their New York buildings to add reverberation to their symphony
orchestra recordings. They would put a speaker and a microphone in the
stairwell, play the original recording and record the sound picked up by
the microphone in the stairwell.
For what it's worth, I just compared the recorded sound of Bruno
Walter's Mozart Prague Symphony (NY Philharmonic, 1954, SM2K 64474) and
his recording of the Mozart Haffner Symphony (NY Philharmonic, 1953, SMK
64473). I could not hear any difference at all between the two
recordings as far as their recorded sound is concerned. Both of these
were (of course) recorded in the 30th Street Studio and both of them are
loaded with reverberation, have strident treble and boomy bass.
David Oppenheim was the producer of most (all?) of these 30th Street
Studio recordings so I tend to place a good deal of the blame on him.
That's because it appears that as soon as he left, Columbia stopped
recording the New York Philharmonic in the 30th Street Studio and moved
to the St. George Hotel in Brooklyn.
-- Thomas
Supposedly that's how they picked up the barking dog in Ormandy's early LP
Scheherazade. I don't know where the deed was accomplished. I have a
Japanese LP of Toscanini's 1949 Eroica that sounds like it was processed the
same way, and the sound is hilariously bad.
--
Curtis Croulet
Temecula, California
33°27'59"N, 117°05'53"W
Well,
Here it is. This should let you all see the scan of the French Cover
of the Walter Mozart "Linz" / "Prague" coupling. Note how the
Columbia Symphony Orchestra is listed in English while the New York
Philharmonic is listed in French. Curious and curiouser. Hope everyone
enjoys this. Best to all.
Steve
http://www.mediafire.com/?sharekey=4a7a024ced785f81ab1eab3e9fa335ca270bec6074023019
Thank you so much, Steve. It was really very nice of you to take the
trouble to create and share this scan of such a rare and elusive Bruno
Walter LP.
Best regards,
Thomas