Was Liberace a great classical pianist?
mik...@my-deja.com
play Chopin on TV with incredible technique. For those that own some
Liberace recordings, my question is- how does his Chopin playing sound
today? Is it very idosyncratic? Any substance?
Mike
Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/
Jan Hoving
<mik...@my-deja.com> schreef in bericht news:941tf0$sk7$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
I feel ashamed but who is Liberace? An Italian pianist perhaps?
JH
Tony Duggan
Jan Hoving <jho...@chello.nl> wrote in message
news:tw%86.2766$td3.1...@amsnews03.chello.com...
>
>
> I feel ashamed but who is Liberace? An Italian pianist perhaps?
Errrr, no.
Go to:
http://www.flatwaremedia.com/liberace/
Tony Duggan,
England
Chris Marriott
You're showing your youth :-).
Liberace (pronounced "Liber-Archie") was a hugely popular British
entertainer in the 1960s/70s. He was a very skilled pianist, and always
performed in "over the top" sequined costumes, with immense and truly
hideous candelabras on top of the piano. Great fun to watch - he was
constantly on TV.
I think he died a few years ago.
Regards,
--
Chris
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Chris Marriott, SkyMap Software, UK (ch...@skymap.com)
Visit our web site at http://www.skymap.com
Astronomy software written by astronomers, for astronomers
Simon Roberts
: Jan Hoving <jho...@chello.nl> wrote in message
: news:tw%86.2766$td3.1...@amsnews03.chello.com...
: >
: > I feel ashamed but who is Liberace? An Italian pianist perhaps?
: You're showing your youth :-).
: Liberace (pronounced "Liber-Archie") was a hugely popular British
: entertainer in the 1960s/70s. He was a very skilled pianist, and always
: performed in "over the top" sequined costumes, with immense and truly
: hideous candelabras on top of the piano. Great fun to watch - he was
: constantly on TV.
He may have been hugely popular in Britain, but was not British.
Simon
mik...@my-deja.com
>
> Jan Hoving <jho...@chello.nl> wrote in message
> > I feel ashamed but who is Liberace? An Italian pianist perhaps?
>
> You're showing your youth :-).
>
> Liberace (pronounced "Liber-Archie") was a hugely popular British
> entertainer in the 1960s/70s. He was a very skilled pianist, and
> always performed in "over the top" sequined costumes, with immense
> and truly hideous candelabras on top of the piano. Great fun to
> watch - he was constantly on TV.
>
> I think he died a few years ago.
> Chris
Apparently he was American and appeared in Europe occasionally? His
biography says he was born in Wisconsin. His father was Italian and
played the French horn with the Milwaukee Philharmonic Orchestra. His
mother was Polish and played piano.
More interesting facts about Liberace:
- he debuted at age 14 as soloist with the Chicago Symphony
- in the 40's he played in night clubs in New York
- Liberace's television series debuted in 1952. By 1954 it was carried
over 217 American stations and in 20 foreign countries.
- in 1953 he played to a capacity crowd at Carnegie Hall
- also in 1953 he made a record-breaking appearance before 16,000 at
Madison Square Garden
- in 1960 he had a TV show on ABC
- in 1968 he went to London for appearances
- 1976 - 1979, Liberace was acclaimed "Pop Keyboard Artist of the Year"
by Contemporary Keyboard Magazine.
- 1977 Liberace founded the non-profit Liberace Foundation for the
Performing and Creative Arts
- In 1980, Las Vegas named him both Star of the Year and Entertainment
Personality of the Year.
- in 1982, Liberace made a special showcase appearance at the Academy
Awards, performing all five nominated film themes.
- in 1984 Liberace's premier engagement at New York's Radio City Music
Hall broke all sales and attendance records of the 51-year history.
- 1986, Liberace's final performances were at Radio City Music Hall
- 1987, died almost age 68
A truly flambouant and talented pianist. His foundation was funding 56
schools, universities and organizations (as of 1995).
I'm still curious about his Chopin. How does it compare to Argerich?
How good is the audio and the piano tone on his recordings?
Ward Hardman
: I do not own any Liberace recordings but I do remember watching him
: play Chopin on TV with incredible technique. For those that own some
: Liberace recordings, my question is- how does his Chopin playing sound
: today? Is it very idosyncratic? Any substance?
Back in the '50s, I remember my piano-playing sister complaining that
when he played the "Fantasie Impromptu," he left out the difficult parts
and concentrated on the "I'm always chasing rainbows" section.
In some ways he was quite modern. He sued the British columnist,
"Cassandra," back around 1960, for implying that he was homosexual.
(Cassandra just indicated effeminacy.) He perjured himself at the
libel trial, saying that "I have never been homosexual," and was
awarded a big judgement by the jury. He had HIV at the time of
his demise, and his estate was sued by his lover, who claimed that
Liberace had put him at risk without warning him.
--Ward Hardman
"The older I get, the more I admire and crave competence, just simple
competence, in any field from adultery to zoology."
- H.L. Mencken
Terrymelin
>
>Liberace (pronounced "Liber-Archie") was a hugely popular British
>entertainer in the 1960s/70s. He was a very skilled pianist, a
Unfortunately you're showing a good bit of ignorance. Liberace is pronounced
"Liberaahchie." And he was from Wisconsin not England.
Terry Ellsworth
Phil Wood
Phil
"Jan Hoving" <jho...@chello.nl> wrote in message
news:tw%86.2766$td3.1...@amsnews03.chello.com...
Tony Duggan
news:979670486.19658.2...@news.demon.co.uk...
>
> Jan Hoving <jho...@chello.nl> wrote in message
> news:tw%86.2766$td3.1...@amsnews03.chello.com...
> >
> > I feel ashamed but who is Liberace? An Italian pianist perhaps?
>
> You're showing your youth :-).
>
> Liberace (pronounced "Liber-Archie") was a hugely popular British
> entertainer in the 1960s/70s.
American.
Tony Duggan,
England
Tony Duggan
news:942e7d$sgm$2...@gondor.sdsu.edu...
> In some ways he was quite modern. He sued the British columnist,
> "Cassandra," back around 1960, for implying that he was homosexual.
> (Cassandra just indicated effeminacy.) He perjured himself at the
> libel trial, saying that "I have never been homosexual," and was
> awarded a big judgement by the jury. He had HIV at the time of
> his demise, and his estate was sued by his lover, who claimed that
> Liberace had put him at risk without warning him.
The headline in the newspaper concerned on the day of his death was:
CAN WE HAVE OUR MONEY BACK ?
Always rely on the British tabloids to show taste and decorum. ;-)
Tony Duggan,
England
paulgo...@my-deja.com
Ward Hardman <har...@sciences.sdsu.edu> wrote:
> In some ways he was quite modern. He sued the British columnist,
> "Cassandra," back around 1960, for implying that he was homosexual.
> (Cassandra just indicated effeminacy.) He perjured himself at the
> libel trial, saying that "I have never been homosexual," and was
> awarded a big judgement by the jury. He had HIV at the time of
> his demise, and his estate was sued by his lover, who claimed that
> Liberace had put him at risk without warning him.
An interesting fact about Liberace - and about the 1950's - is that he
was considered very attractive by women in the 1950's. For example, in
the standard '50s popular song "Mr. Sandman," the singer wishes for a
lover "with lots of wavy hair like Liberace's." There is absolutely no
intended irony in this line.
--
Paul Goldstein
Bridgerec
>when he played the "Fantasie Impromptu," he left out the difficult parts
>and concentrated on the "I'm always chasing rainbows" section.
I had a friend who used to play "back up" piano to Liberace on dinner theater
dates in the 60s. When I asked him why Liberace would want another pianist
playing along in the band, he answered: "Lee liked to be able to give his
complete concentration to the right hand". : )
ds
Matthew B. Tepper
<942kj9$aoa$2...@lure.pipex.net>:
One *might* have expected the first word to be "MAY"!
--
Matthew B. Tepper: WWW, science fiction, classical music, ducks!
My personal home page -- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/index.html
My main music page --- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/berlioz.html
To write to me, do for my address what Androcles did for the lion
"Compassionate Conservatism?" * "Tight Slacks?" * "Jumbo Shrimp?"
Matthew B. Tepper
<942e7d$sgm$2...@gondor.sdsu.edu>:
>
>In some ways he was quite modern. He sued the British columnist,
>"Cassandra," back around 1960, for implying that he was homosexual.
>(Cassandra just indicated effeminacy.) He perjured himself at the
>libel trial, saying that "I have never been homosexual," and was
>awarded a big judgement by the jury. He had HIV at the time of
>his demise, and his estate was sued by his lover, who claimed that
>Liberace had put him at risk without warning him.
His publicists were so terrified that he would lose his popularity (with
the blue-haired lady set?) were his actual orientation to be revealed, even
at the very finish of his life, that they tried to put out the news that
the cause of death had been sepsis from eating a tainted watermelon. Of
course, the death certificate read otherwise.
REG
because at the time "watermelon pills" were the fad of the month in terms of
weight loss - one of his symptoms. What would a tainted watermelon be??? Is
there mad melon disease? I think the whole thing may have been prefigured in
the popular media when a famous cult figure who said,"T'aint me, Fibber..."
Matthew B. Tepper <oy兀earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:y9896.5512$tq1.2...@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
W. J. McCutcheon
REG wrote:
> Not a tainted watermelon, Matthew - they said it was a "watermelon diet"
> because at the time "watermelon pills" were the fad of the month in terms
of
> weight loss - one of his symptoms. What would a tainted watermelon be???
Is
> there mad melon disease? I think the whole thing may have been prefigured
in
> the popular media when a famous cult figure who said,"T'aint me,
Fibber..."
>
sent 40-50 people to the hospital because of melons tainted with e coli.
[They were cut too close to uncooked meat.] One customer, a 4- or
5-year-old girl, died. I'm not disputing REG's account, just pointing out
that "tainted melons" are entirely possible. Excuse my digression ... back
to music!
-- Bill McCutcheon
REG
W. J. McCutcheon <wj...@prodigy.net> wrote in message
news:9435o0$4vau$1...@newssvr05-en0.news.prodigy.com...
mik...@my-deja.com
> mik...@my-deja.com wrote:
> : I do not own any Liberace recordings but I do remember watching him
> : play Chopin on TV with incredible technique. For those that own
> : some Liberace recordings, my question is- how does his Chopin
> : playing sound today? Is it very idosyncratic? Any substance?
>
> Back in the '50s, I remember my piano-playing sister complaining that
> when he played the "Fantasie Impromptu," he left out the difficult
> parts and concentrated on the "I'm always chasing rainbows" section.
Well, I just heard a sample of his Tchaikovsky Piano Concerto No 1, 1st
Movement, and I have to say it's very good. Superb playing. Great
audio. Excellent piano tone. No idiosyncrsies in his playing. If I
didn't know it was Liberace, I would not have ever guessed it was him.
The orchestra is very good too. Now, I have yet to hear his Chopin,
and I wonder if his recordings leave out major parts of Chopin's music?
> In some ways he was quite modern. He sued the British columnist,
> "Cassandra," back around 1960, for implying that he was homosexual.
> (Cassandra just indicated effeminacy.) He perjured himself at the
> libel trial, saying that "I have never been homosexual," and was
> awarded a big judgement by the jury. He had HIV at the time of
> his demise, and his estate was sued by his lover, who claimed that
> Liberace had put him at risk without warning him.
>
> --Ward Hardman
Never heard from or about his lover since then, I wonder if he died or
is just staying out of the public eye? The lover is probably telling
the truth and the 'scandal' wouldn't matter much today. Might even
increase sales.
One thing is for sure, the story of Liberace would make a good movie
and a good documentary. There must be tons of film available and
probably some interesting 'home/behind the scenes' films sitting around
that could be made into a decent documentary. Two things could come to
light in a well made documentary- 1. new facts might come to surface (I
suspect we don't know everything about Liberace), and 2. if his playing
was up to true classical quality (and I'm starting to think so after
listening to his Tchaikovsky) then he's been seriously under-rated and
clouded by the 'scandal' of homosexuality. IF there is rare film and
audio of him playing Chopin and other classical composers, and his
classical playing is truly great, and it just might be, because he was
orginally classically trained, then again, he's been seriously under-
rated as a classical pianist. Don't know yet. But it's very possible.
His sexuality, scandal, flashy showmanship don't mean nothing IF he was
a great classical pianinst. Don't know yet.
Jan Hoving
"E.M." <eme...@nospam.net> schreef in bericht
news:vgu96t8v3i60ru9u4...@4ax.com...
> On Tue, 16 Jan 2001 18:27:51 -0000, "Chris Marriott"
> <ch...@nospam.chrism.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>
> >
> >Liberace (pronounced "Liber-Archie") (...)
>
> Related in any way to Archie Bunker?
>
> Eltjo Meijer
LOL!!!!
slimjim
<mik...@my-deja.com> wrote 2. if his playing
> was up to true classical quality (and I'm starting to think so after
> listening to his Tchaikovsky) then he's been seriously under-rated and
> clouded by the 'scandal' of homosexuality.
Surely by the way he chose to present himself and manage his career, not by
his sexuality. Could you assess his pianism in terms of, say, Previn?
Clovis Lark
> Well, in Milwaukee..... thanks for the clarification
And... Liberace was from Wisconsin...
Ibkco
profitable. I remember him on tv in the mid 50's at the same time as Florian
Zabach was popular on the violin. Anyone remember him and his "Hot Canary?"
I.Kraemer
Jarl Sigurd
I'm under the impression that Liberace was sort of a Vanessa Mae
of the Piano. Would that be an accurate assessment. Note, I'm
only familiar with his image, not his actual playing.
John Thomas
More like the Elvis of the piano.
--
Regards,
John Thomas
Hugh Johnson
news:3A65DC...@geocities.com...
>
> I'm under the impression that Liberace was sort of a Vanessa Mae
> of the Piano. Would that be an accurate assessment. Note, I'm
> only familiar with his image, not his actual playing.
>
I've said it before, I'll say it again: Vanessa's "Butterfly Lovers" blows
away the competition. She has potential to be damn good when she wants to
get serious.
I never heard Liberace shine like that. His great "technique" was limited to
schmaltzy glissandos. He couldn't be serious if a baby grand dropped on his
head.
hugh ? semplicesoft ? com
paulgo...@my-deja.com
Do you think Richter could?
;-)
--
Paul Goldstein
mik...@my-deja.com
> "Jarl Sigurd" <jarls...@geocities.com> wrote in message
> news:3A65DC...@geocities.com...
> >
> > I'm under the impression that Liberace was sort of a Vanessa Mae
> > of the Piano. Would that be an accurate assessment. Note, I'm
> > only familiar with his image, not his actual playing.
> >
Same here. I only remember a flashy image. I'm trying to find out
just how good he was as a classical pianist WHEN he played classical
seriously, which was not often, but sometimes. I vaguely remember
watching him on TV and he said he really loved Chopin and then played a
Chopin peice which I remember being impressed by, but that was so long
ago and I can't remember if the playing was truly great or not. One
thing is for sure- I know he took Chopin very seriously and loved
Chopin the most. In fact, he even aquired one of Chopin's pianos!
Another great thing I remember about Liberace was what he did one time
on a TV show, probably Merv Griffin show. After he played, he then did
something I've never seen a pianist do before or since. After Liberace
performed, he introduced his protege! Liberace was so excited and this
young man that he did indeed call him his protege! The young man
played the piano right after Liberace! Rarely if never do pianist like
to be followed by another pianist! The young man was very good, but
there was no way this guy could follow Liberace's footsteps! Still,
Liberace got him on the show and I think it was a very generous thing
to do. The whole thing came across as genuine and kind. What happened
to his protege? I don't know.
> I've said it before, I'll say it again: Vanessa's "Butterfly Lovers"
> blows away the competition. She has potential to be damn good when
> she wants to get serious.
I agree. It's rare when Venessa gets serious, but when she does it's
superb stuff. Some of her best serious classical can be seen in her
Berlin Philharmonic video.
> I never heard Liberace shine like that. His great "technique" was
> limited to schmaltzy glissandos. He couldn't be serious if a baby
> grand dropped on his head.
After listening to his Tchaikovsky 1, I will have to disagree 100
percent. Have you heard it recently? The runs and arppegios here are
seriously executed and are not schmaltzy at all. There's not a hint of
schmaltz. But, that is the image we all have because it was left
behind because of Liberace's own fault. And indeed he was known for
flashy piano 'pop'. However, I now think he was a very good classical
pianist when he played seriously.
We've forgotten that he was classically trained as a youth and at age
14 his debut was with the Chicago Symphony. That's why his pop piano
was so good, because of his classical training. Other pop pianists
don't sound as good as Liberace, and I think it's absolutely because of
his classical background. Unfortunately he didn't play much serious
classical, but not because he couldn't.
You all download his Tch 1 from Napster, then tell me what you think.
Then of course erase the download because it was for research purposes
only. :)
Hugh Johnson
>
> After listening to his Tchaikovsky 1, I will have to disagree 100
> percent. Have you heard it recently? The runs and arppegios here are
> seriously executed and are not schmaltzy at all. There's not a hint of
> schmaltz. But, that is the image we all have because it was left
> behind because of Liberace's own fault. And indeed he was known for
> flashy piano 'pop'. However, I now think he was a very good classical
> pianist when he played seriously.
This is where I have to get real meek and sink down in the cushions and
confess that I don't listen to Tchaikovsky
No, it's his Debussy that I really thought stank to high heaven. And Chopin
too I think, but I probably wasn't a big Chopin buff at the time either (I
started out liking 20th century and worked backwards I guess). But the Clair
de Lune and stuff like that just drove me up a wall.
Jaime Jean
Chopin's Militar Polonaise - as if to show his versatility. IMHO, he sucked.
Has anybody else seen Sedaka performing classical music? How do you rate
him?
Jaime
<mik...@my-deja.com> wrote in message news:941tf0$sk7$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
> I do not own any Liberace recordings but I do remember watching him
> play Chopin on TV with incredible technique. For those that own some
> Liberace recordings, my question is- how does his Chopin playing sound
> today? Is it very idosyncratic? Any substance?
>
Chris Marriott
Terrymelin <terry...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20010116173849...@ng-ff1.aol.com...
> >ou're showing your youth :-).
> >
> >Liberace (pronounced "Liber-Archie") was a hugely popular British
> >entertainer in the 1960s/70s. He was a very skilled pianist, a
>
> Unfortunately you're showing a good bit of ignorance. Liberace is
pronounced
> "Liberaahchie."
I'm not sure I see that difference between that and "liber-archie"!
>And he was from Wisconsin not England.
I stand corrected.
Regards,
--
Chris
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Chris Marriott, SkyMap Software, UK (ch...@skymap.com)
Visit our web site at http://www.skymap.com
Astronomy software written by astronomers, for astronomers
B.T. O'Hara
"REG" <Rich...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:Yq896.2177$Zv5....@typhoon.nyc.rr.com...
> Not a tainted watermelon, Matthew - they said it was a "watermelon diet"
> because at the time "watermelon pills" were the fad of the month in terms
of
> weight loss - one of his symptoms. What would a tainted watermelon be???
Is
> there mad melon disease? I think the whole thing may have been prefigured
in
> the popular media when a famous cult figure who said,"T'aint me,
Fibber..."
>
and all this time i thot fibber wuz good for the diet
mik...@my-deja.com
> No, it's his Debussy that I really thought stank to high heaven. And
> Chopin too I think, but I probably wasn't a big Chopin buff at the
> time either (I started out liking 20th century and worked backwards I
> guess). But the Clair de Lune and stuff like that just drove me up a
> wall.
"Chopin too I think". You think? Or know? Well folks, I did something
unusual- I actually LISTENED to Liberace's Polonaise No.6 in A flat,
Op.53 You can download it from Napster (for research purposes of
course).
After days of wondering just how good Liberace is as a classical
pianist, here's what I found out. I listened to Liberace's Polonaise a
few times and found it VERY good. Better than Rubinstein or
Horrowitz? Of couse not. But VERY good. The first thing that I heard
and asked myself was- where is all the flashy stuff and scmaltzy
runs?? Guess what- there is NOT ONE BIT of flash or scmaltz AT ALL! I
asked myself, this is the all-flash-no-substance Liberace? My gosh
folks, this Polonaise performance of Liberace is very well-manererd,
neat, ordered, well-paced, clean, conservative and almost even
simplified! I could't believe what I heard! But what happened next
really shocked me.
My only other Polonaise recording was Argerich's 1965 recital. So I
listened to it next. What a SHOCK in comparison!! It's Argerich who
is MORE Liberace than even Liberace! Argerich is almost a wild maniac
compared to Liberace! Of course this is Argerich's famous recital and
it's her famous emotionally charged, youthfully carefree, and daring
performance. Argerich here is superb, but also VERY wild, prouncing
like a hot cat. Great yes, but not conservative, if you like
conservative. So, it's not the best thing to compare to Liberace, but
it's the only other Polnaise I had.
Again, Liberace has a whole different Chopin approach in the Polonaise,
and probably was much older at the time of his recording than
Argerich. If you're in the mood for well-mannared, almost cautious
Chopin, I recommend Liberace! He's carefull with every note. For
something much flashier- Argerich! Again, I'm struck by how
conventional Liberace is, and how Argerich is more 'Liberace' than
Liberace.
I've listened to the Tch1 again. If you download it from Napster be
sure to get the version with the larger byte size. There are two
versions on Napster of Thc1. The smaller MP3 is a horrible pop
version. But the larger MP3 is a superb full orchestra version.
The full orchestra version is VERY good. Again, Liberace is
conventional and conservative!! Where is the flash and schmaltz? Not
a bit! In fact, this is a very beautiful piano tone, great audio, and
sensitive but serious piano playing. If this is truly Liberace and not
some kind of mistake, I'm quite impressed.
Jeffrey Smith
wrote:
>While we are at it, I recall having seen a Neil Sedaka show where he played
>Chopin's Militar Polonaise - as if to show his versatility. IMHO, he sucked.
>
>Has anybody else seen Sedaka performing classical music? How do you rate
>him?
>
>Jaime
>
>
Yes. He slipped a piece of Chopin into a show at the Palladium a few
years ago. He was certainly no worse than many others I have heard.
Jeffrey Smith.
slimjim
<mik...@my-deja.com> wrote in message news:947bhp$huq$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
> Again, Liberace has a whole different Chopin approach in the Polonaise,
> and probably was much older at the time of his recording than
> Argerich. If you're in the mood for well-mannared, almost cautious
> Chopin, I recommend Liberace! He's carefull with every note. For
> something much flashier- Argerich! Again, I'm struck by how
> conventional Liberace is, and how Argerich is more 'Liberace' than
> Liberace.
But is Liberace more 'Argerich' than Argerich? Or, since Argerich is more
'Liberace' than Liberace, is Liberace more 'Argerich' than 'Liberace'? If
the answer to the first question is yes, is 'Argerich' more 'Argerich' than
'Liberace'? But in that case, since Liberace is more 'Argerich' than
Argerich, isn't the real, pertinent question, is 'Argerich' more 'Argerich'
than 'Argerich'?
Hugh Johnson
"slimjim" <f...@t.pat> wrote in message
news:947e0m$t6e$1...@pegasus.csx.cam.ac.uk...
>
> But is Liberace more 'Argerich' than Argerich? Or, since Argerich is more
> 'Liberace' than Liberace, is Liberace more 'Argerich' than 'Liberace'? If
> the answer to the first question is yes, is 'Argerich' more 'Argerich'
than
> 'Liberace'? But in that case, since Liberace is more 'Argerich' than
> Argerich, isn't the real, pertinent question, is 'Argerich' more
'Argerich'
> than 'Argerich'?
For me, ultimately, it's between Martha and Vanessa: Who would you rather
see in a wet T-shirt?
slimjim
"Hugh Johnson" <h...@spam-me-not.net> wrote in message
news:mkH96.1027$cN.7...@bgtnsc07-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
Martha. We've seen Vanessa.
John Thomas
> "Hugh Johnson" <h...@spam-me-not.net> wrote:
>
> Of course this is Argerich's famous recital and
> it's her famous emotionally charged, youthfully carefree, and daring
> performance. Argerich here is superb, but also VERY wild, prouncing
> like a hot cat.
Forget the wet T-shirt, just tell me what "prouncing like a hot cat"
means. (If the answer is satisfactory, I might go for the T-shirt.)
--
Regards,
John Thomas
Tom Hens
mik...@my-deja.com wrote...
> Never heard from or about his lover since then, I wonder if he died or
> is just staying out of the public eye? The lover is probably telling
> the truth and the 'scandal' wouldn't matter much today. Might even
> increase sales.
The scandal erupted long before Liberace's death, when Scott Thorson, his
much younger lover (whom Liberace regularly introduced to his audiences as his
"driver"), who had been thrown out by Liberace because of his drug use and
dealing, sued for palimony somewhere during the seventies (he lost the case).
Even though Liberace steadfastly kept denying he was gay, after that everybody
knew anyway. And it didn't make the slightest bit of difference to his fanbase
of adoring and by then largely elderly females. Thorson does indeed stay out
of the public eye: he is in a federal witness protection program because (many
years after his involvement with Liberace) he testified against some powerful
drug dealers.
> One thing is for sure, the story of Liberace would make a good movie
> and a good documentary. There must be tons of film available and
> probably some interesting 'home/behind the scenes' films sitting around
> that could be made into a decent documentary.
At least one of each has already been made. There was a television biopic made
not too long after his death which was relatively decent by the usual
standards of such things, and there was more recently an excellent
biographical documentary in the BBC's "Reputations" series. Overall his life
story was a rather sad one on a personal level, and at times simply weird. For
instance, he had Scott Thorson undergo plastic surgery to make him look more
like Liberace himself. Truly creepy. On the other hand, everybody who knew him
seems to remember him with genuine affection.
> Two things could come to
> light in a well made documentary- 1. new facts might come to surface (I
> suspect we don't know everything about Liberace), and 2. if his playing
> was up to true classical quality (and I'm starting to think so after
> listening to his Tchaikovsky) then he's been seriously under-rated and
> clouded by the 'scandal' of homosexuality. IF there is rare film and
> audio of him playing Chopin and other classical composers, and his
> classical playing is truly great, and it just might be, because he was
> orginally classically trained, then again, he's been seriously under-
> rated as a classical pianist. Don't know yet. But it's very possible.
> His sexuality, scandal, flashy showmanship don't mean nothing IF he was
> a great classical pianinst. Don't know yet.
There wasn't much time given to his music in the BBC documentary. I got
the impression that he started out as a talented but unexceptional pianist,
but pretty rapidly stopped caring about what and how he played and lived just
for the showmanship and the public adulation. After all, he's the man who came
up with the classic "I was crying all the way to the bank" when asked for his
reaction to a critic who'd savaged one of his sell-out concerts. I'm certain
he himself would never have claimed to be a great classical pianist (for one,
he seems to have been a rather modest and deeply insecure person, the
over-the-top public persona notwithstanding).
mik...@my-deja.com
>....he seems to have been a rather modest and deeply insecure person,
> the over-the-top public persona notwithstanding).
Is there a good biography (book) on him? Something that tells us about
his personal life in detail and talks about these insecurities, etc?
prustage
I remeber playing it once or twice in my teens.
He may have been technically reasonably accomplished but his performances
were lightweight, shallow and showy - much like the man.
I never heard him play anything other than light popular classics.
mik...@my-deja.com
Untill a few days ago I had only remembered him very vagely on TV. But
then I learned he was classicaly trained as a youth and his debut was
at age 14 with the Chicago Symphony. I remembered he liked Chopin the
most and started to wonder if this was a great classical pianist who
decided on a pop career over classical (a wide choice?)
So, I posted this topic and asked about his serious classical playing.
No one could DEFINITELY answer. Everyone had vague memories. So, I
did something unusual- I LISTENED to some of Liberace's serious
classical recordings just a few days ago to find an answer to my
question once and for all.
I went to Naspter (for research purposes only) and found a bunch of pop
Liberace which I don't care about. But then I found this:
"Liberace - Chopin - Polonaise No. 6 in A Flat.mp3"
Now THAT is a serious classical work, performed by just about every
great pianist who likes Chopin. Again I knew that Liberace liked
Chopin the most and even aquired one of Chopin's pianos! (now in a
museum) I hadn't listened to this piece of music in a long time, so I
gave it a listen.
My first 'test' of any peice of music is- does it hold my interest all
the way through from start to finish? This is a critical test of my
own because I will turn off any piece of music that bores me or I find
just plain or not up to high quailty. I will not listen to something
that doesn't interest me. I don't have time.
The Polonaise passed this test. I did not turn it off. I listened ALL
the way through because it's VERY good and holds your interest. This
is very good, serious playing. As good as Horowitz or Rubinstein?
No. But very good in it's own. Not only that, there was no flashy
runs or scmaltzy nonsense that his pop stuff suffers from. Here, he is
actually very conventional, conservative, neat, even-paced, and
carefull with every note. Not a bit of flash or Scmaltz. This really
surprised me.
Then I found this file:
"Liberace - Tchaikovsky - Piano Concerto No 1.mp3" 2,548k
Well now I was really curious. What would this sound like? I always
liked this peice a lot. I was hoping not to be dissapointed. Guess
what. Not only did this pass my first 'test', but again I was shocked
by the serious and sensitive playing! Very conventional, but
expressive. Here, he produces a BEAUTIFUL piano tone! At moments he's
slightly refrained, at others, he goes full power. This is very good
playing. Not a bit of scmaltzy runs or nothing like it. The
orchestra, the audio, the piano tone, the playing, is, to put it matter
of factly, magnificant.
If anyone decides to download it, be sure to get the version with a
byte size of 2,548k. There is a pop version, of 2,347k that is
horrible. Avoid it. Get the 2,548k version. If this is really
Liberace, and not a mistake, (I'm still shocked and can't beleive it),
it's too bad he didn't record more serious classical. This is very
good playing.
mik...@my-deja.com
> He may have been technically reasonably accomplished but his
> performances were lightweight, shallow and showy - much like the man.
Hi again. I just had to post a reply to this comment as well. In the
past few days I've learned more about Liberace. Lightweight? Sure.
Showy? Yes. Shallow? Don't think so.
I remember watching Liberce on TV and in one show, after he played, he
did something I've never seen any other pianist do before or since. He
introduced his protege! (his main student). Liberace was quite
excited about letting everyone hear him play. Now this is a fact-
pianist rarely, if ever, want to be followed by another pianist. But
Liberace wanted his protege to get some recognition. So, this young
guy played and was very good, but he could never replace Liberace, for
who could duplicate all that glitzy showmanship stuff? However, this
whole thing came across very geniune and sincere. In other words,
Liberace got this guy, now long forgotten, on TV and probably had to
fight with the show producers to do it. I think it was a very generous
thing to do. The effort failed, but that doesn't matter. It was still
generous.
Liberace also set up a major scholarship fund that has provided major
funding to over 100 schools and organizations. Money directly from
Liberace himself. It seems he had a very strong desire to help,
instruct, and finance new young talent. He probably visited these
schools (don't know for sure, but seems likely) This seems generous,
not shallow, to me.
Liberace was well loved by his huge fan base. I think they found him
open, personable, and generous. For example, on his TV shows he talked
directly to you, and explained the music he was about to play. The
audiences loved it. Here was a performer not only playing great piano,
but also talking to you and wanting you to get to know him. His love
of music was infectious. Ok, it was to make money, yes, but I think he
truly was sincere about sharing his love of music with his fans.
There's no doubt about that. At one concert at Soldiers Stadium, he
broke the attendance record for a performing pianist when over 100,000
people showed up at his concert. The only other pianist who has
probably broken that record by now is probably Billy Joel, another pop
pianist that fans 'connect' with.
slimjim
<mik...@my-deja.com> wrote in message news:94bbbl$va5$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
<snip>
Are you planning to post your liberace anecdotes every week? Perhaps you
should put them on a website and post the url in a sig file whenever you
have something new to say here.
HankM219
>the way through because it's VERY good and holds your interest. This
>is very good, serious playing. As good as Horowitz or Rubinstein?
>No. But very good in it's own. Not only that, there was no flashy
>runs or scmaltzy nonsense that his pop stuff suffers from. Here, he is
>actually very conventional, conservative, neat, even-paced, and
>carefull with every note. Not a bit of flash or Scmaltz. This really
>surprised me.
>
>Then I found this file:
>
>"Liberace - Tchaikovsky - Piano Concerto No 1.mp3" 2,548k
>
>Well now I was really curious. What would this sound like? I always
>liked this peice a lot. I was hoping not to be dissapointed. Guess
>what. Not only did this pass my first 'test', but again I was shocked
>by the serious and sensitive playing! Very conventional, but
>expressive. Here, he produces a BEAUTIFUL piano tone! At moments he's
>slightly refrained, at others, he goes full power. This is very good
>playing. Not a bit of
>scmaltzy runs or nothing like it. The
>orchestra, the audio, the piano tone, the playing, is, to put it matter
>of factly, magnificant.
I'm in the "vague memories" category, so I can't comment on the specifics of
the selections you heard. But what this illustrates is the song from "Gypsy,"
"You gotta have a gimmick." Without the "gimmick" Liberace would have been
like hundreds of other talented, capable classical pianists who never make it
as world-class artists because they don't have that special gift that causes
them to stand out from the rest...or that special luck of being at the right
place in the right time, or having the right connections, etc.
Henry Maurer, Cherry Hill, NJ, USA
hank...@aol.com or hsma...@worldnet.att.net
mik...@my-deja.com
>
> <mik...@my-deja.com> wrote in message news:94bbbl$va5
$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
>
> <snip>
>
> Are you planning to post your liberace anecdotes every week?
Nope. I only reply to other posters who have valid questions and
comments about Liberace if and when they post here. And only about the
classical recordings of Liberace. I have no plans or intentions of
posting Liberace comments on any kind of periodic time frame.
> Perhaps you should put them on a website and post the url in a sig
> file whenever you have something new to say here.
Why would I need to do that? This is a valid classical newsgroup.
Liberace recorded classical music. If there are new things to learn
and say about Liberace's classical music, isn't this the place for
general disscusions about classical music? Someone in another post
commented about Liberace's personality. I only replied because someone
commented. Just as someone might comment about the personality of
another famous musician in another thread.
I'mmost interested in talking about Liberace's classical efforts. But
there's no harm talking about other aspects of a musician. Lots of
posts go off topic. This thread is no different and is rather
typical. Someone posted a comment. I replied in like form with my
opinion and comments (which I had researched for accuracy). The person
I was responding to and I were engaged in what I thought was typical
good natured posting etiquette and conversation normal for this
newsgroup. I was hoping you had some new info or insight to
contribute. I guess you didn't.
But fear not. I only intend to engage in normal conversation about the
classical side of Liberace if others want to as well. I never post off-
topic or waste time posting jokes and nonsense that others often do. I
don't do that. I like talking about classical music recordings and the
musicians that create them.
Liberace's classical recordings have been long forgotten. I've been a
classical music afficiando for 30+ years. I enjoy finding good rare
and forgotten performers or those who have been controversial,
misunderstood or under-rated. Liberace is one. I'm sure others are
curious of Liberace's classical recordings too and want to learn more
and engage in conversation as well.
regards,
mik...@my-deja.com
> >"Liberace - Tchaikovsky - Piano Concerto No 1.mp3" 2,548k
> >
> >Well now I was really curious. What would this sound like? I always
> >liked this peice a lot. I was hoping not to be dissapointed. Guess
> >what. Not only did this pass my first 'test', but again I was
> >shocked by the serious and sensitive playing! Very conventional, but
> >expressive. Here, he produces a BEAUTIFUL piano tone! At moments
> >he's slightly refrained, at others, he goes full power. This is
> >very good playing. Not a bit of scmaltzy runs or nothing like it.
> >The orchestra, the audio, the piano tone, the playing, is, to put it
> >matter of factly, magnificant.
>
> I'm in the "vague memories" category, so I can't comment on the
> specifics of the selections you heard. But what this illustrates is
> the song from "Gypsy," "You gotta have a gimmick." Without
> the "gimmick" Liberace would have been like hundreds of other
> talented, capable classical pianists who never make it as world-class
> artists because they don't have that special gift that causes them to
> stand out from the rest...or that special luck of being at the right
> place in the right time, or having the right connections, etc.
I agree. But in Liberace's case, since he made a career in pop piano,
we'll never really know IF, had he choosen the far more difficult
classical career, just how good he would have been as a classical
pianist. We'll never know. He didn't choose that path. But he did
play some classical and his Tch1 is probably his best classical
effort. It proves to me he did have the ability to play great. If he
had concentrated his efforts on classical, and fine-tuned his
classical, I have no doubt he would have been extremely good. His Tch1
proves it.
But you are so right. There are so many talented classical pianists
who play magnificantly but we'll never hear about them and they'll
never get recording contracts. Liberace turned to pop, created his
gimmicks, and it worked. How many other pop pianists, like Roger
Williams, etc... dare to perform classical in their shows? Not many,
because it goes too much against their image and marketing.
Pop pianist don't interest me too much. Except maybe a few like
DiBlasio who have a semi-classical influence in their playing. But
when a pop pianist includes classical as part of their regular
repertoire, I take notice. Liberace went down in history remembered
mostly as a showbiz, glitzy pop pianist. But hidden in the recordings
he left behind are truly a few gems. If I had not known who was
playing the Tch1, and someone told it me it was Van Cliburn, I would
have beleived them.
slimjim
<mik...@my-deja.com> wrote in message news:94ci1v$q6i$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
> "slimjim" <f...@t.pat> wrote:
> >
> > <mik...@my-deja.com> wrote in message news:94bbbl$va5
> $1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
> >
> > <snip>
> >
> > Are you planning to post your liberace anecdotes every week?
>
> Nope. I only reply to other posters who have valid questions and
> comments about Liberace if and when they post here. And only about the
> classical recordings of Liberace. I have no plans or intentions of
> posting Liberace comments on any kind of periodic time frame.
>
> > Perhaps you should put them on a website and post the url in a sig
> > file whenever you have something new to say here.
>
> Why would I need to do that?
Because it would save time if you were thinking of recycling the same
anecdotes (L introducing his protege; you listening to mp3s etc) a third or
fourth time.
mik...@my-deja.com
> > > Perhaps you should put them on a website and post the url in a sig
> > > file whenever you have something new to say here.
> >
> > Why would I need to do that?
>
> Because it would save time if you were thinking of recycling the same
> anecdotes (L introducing his protege; you listening to mp3s etc) a
> third or fourth time.
Ok, I see what you are saying. That's a good idea because I wouldn't
habe to repeat the same stuff when for a new poster. That way,
everyone else doesn't read the same old stuff.
I appreciate the suggestion. I had posted my comments twice but I had
your concerns allready in mind and wasn't going to do that again, it
was just this once.
Regards,
John Grabowski
>
> Chris Marriott (ch...@nospam.chrism.demon.co.uk) wrote:
>
> : Jan Hoving <jho...@chello.nl> wrote in message
> : news:tw%86.2766$td3.1...@amsnews03.chello.com...
> : >
> : > I feel ashamed but who is Liberace? An Italian pianist perhaps?
>
> : You're showing your youth :-).
>
> : Liberace (pronounced "Liber-Archie") was a hugely popular British
> : performed in "over the top" sequined costumes, with immense and truly
> : hideous candelabras on top of the piano. Great fun to watch - he was
> : constantly on TV.
>
> He may have been hugely popular in Britain, but was not British.
That's okay. They can take credit for him.
John
--
Do you think we should drive a stake through his heart just in case?
-What Peter Lorre allegedly said at Bela Lugosi's funeral.
Spammers: I don't need a work-at-home business, a ground-floor
investment opportunity or Viagra, thank you.
John Grabowski
>
> I do not own any Liberace recordings but I do remember watching him
> play Chopin on TV with incredible technique. For those that own some
> Liberace recordings, my question is- how does his Chopin playing sound
> today? Is it very idosyncratic? Any substance?
Indeed! I believe he's on dk's short list, between Richter and
Michelangeli.
John
tongue bursting through cheek
Tom Hens
mik...@my-deja.com wrote...
> "Tom Hens" <tom....@iname.com.DELETE.THIS.BIT> wrote:
> >....he seems to have been a rather modest and deeply insecure person,
> > the over-the-top public persona notwithstanding).
>
> Is there a good biography (book) on him? Something that tells us about
> his personal life in detail and talks about these insecurities, etc?
I have no idea. I'm sure you'll find some titles if you search Amazon.
Anyway, what's the point of trying to determine whether or not Liberace
was also a passable classical pianist? There are thousands upon thousands
of those. If he had been a truly exceptional performer of classical music
I'm sure we'd know about it. He was only exceptional as a, by today's
standards rather odd, phenomenon in popular culture.
deni...@my-deja.com
definitive recording of that work for the past 40+ years. Van was a
child prodigy blessed with phenomenal natural ability. From age 17-20,
he was the star pupil of Rosina Lhevinne (Juilliard), wife of Josef
Lhevinne. Madame Lhevinne compared Cliburn to Rachmaninoff, who had
been a friend of her and Josef. She thought Cliburn was magnificently
gifted and felt honored to teach him. Other Juilliard students have
stated that Lhevinne was actually in awe of her student. She is quoted
as saying that a "Van Cliburn" comes around (perhaps) once a century.
And, despite the air of healthy competition during Juilliard classes,
Van's classmates -- two of them were John Browning, another Jeaneane
Dowis -- leaped to their feet and cheered as he played. They recognized
that Van not only had tremendous natural musical ability, he also had
incredible charisma and star magnitude - all the makings of a great
concert pianist. Classical pianists of Cliburn's caliber need no
"gimmick", no superfluous trills to hide their many technical flaws.
Liberace was a passable pianist, but chiefly an entertainer. He, more
than any other, was aware of his limitations and would be the first to
laugh to hear someone compare him to a pianist such as Cliburn,
Horowitz, Richter...
In article <94ckgm$s47$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>,
--
Denise
Matthew B. Tepper
>Cliburn's recording [with Kondrashin/Symphony of the Air] of the
>Tchaikovsky [Piano Concerto #1] has been considered the definitive
>recording of that work for the past 40+ years.
"Famous," beyond question.
"Touchstone," very likely.
"Definitive," no freakin' way.
--
Matthew B. Tepper: WWW, science fiction, classical music, ducks!
My personal home page -- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/index.html
My main music page --- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/berlioz.html
To write to me, do for my address what Androcles did for the lion
"Compassionate Conservatism?" * "Tight Slacks?" * "Jumbo Shrimp?"
mik...@my-deja.com
> deni...@my-deja.com wrote in <94fbhs$s98$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>:
>
> >Cliburn's recording [with Kondrashin/Symphony of the Air] of the
> >Tchaikovsky [Piano Concerto #1] has been considered the definitive
> >recording of that work for the past 40+ years.
>
> "Famous," beyond question.
>
> "Touchstone," very likely.
>
> "Definitive," no freakin' way.
It was popular at the time it came out and at THAT time one could all
it 'definitive'. But for 40+ years? Not so sure about that. This
work has been recorded so often since then by so many good pianists I
doubt the word 'definitive' can apply to any of them (if you are using
that word to distinguish it above all others). Cliburn's is still
highly regarded and I'll accept it was definitive then.
When I said before that after listening to Liberace's Tch1, that if
someone told me it was Cliburn, I would have beleived them. I can say
this because I haven't listened to Cliburn and Tch1 in a long time and
I could have been easily fooled into beleiving Liberace's Tch1 was any
good pianist at the time. Liberace is that good in Tch1 (the full orch
recording, not the pop version).