Beethoven Symphony sets

[Lawrence Chalmers]

Just curious here. What sets of the numerous do you recommend? Dave Hurwitz's top choice is on a Sony cheap set by Wand. I own only two: Steinberg's and
Cluytens, so far enough for me for now. I'm looking for a possible set in newer sound and consistent performances.

[sfr...@nycap.rr.com]

On Saturday, June 27, 2020 at 4:15:23 PM UTC-4, Lawrence Chalmers wrote:
> Just curious here. What sets of the numerous do you recommend? Dave Hurwitz's top choice is on a Sony cheap set by Wand. I own only two: Steinberg's and
> Cluytens, so far enough for me for now. I'm looking for a possible set in newer sound and consistent performances.

Oh I love this topic! I have ten sets. My top three are Barenboim, the one Hurwitz recommends, Blomstedt, his earlier one (I haven't heard the more recent one) and Adam Fischer, a recent release. They are all three superb, IMHO. Barenboim is the slowest of the three but not at the expense of the music. I think Fischer is the most taut and swift. All are first rate, I think.

MIFrost

[vih...@protonmail.com]

The incomplete Markevitch set is one of my favorites.

[msw design]

On Saturday, June 27, 2020 at 3:15:23 PM UTC-5, Lawrence Chalmers wrote:
> Just curious here. What sets of the numerous do you recommend? Dave Hurwitz's top choice is on a Sony cheap set by Wand. I own only two: Steinberg's and
> Cluytens, so far enough for me for now. I'm looking for a possible set in newer sound and consistent performances.

Wand certainly is newer sound and consistent performances, but there are plenty of others, too. Any particular charactrer you looking for? Steinberg is fairly central and Cluytens is slower, so maybe someone like Harnoncourt or Gardiner to offer an alternative? Heck, Blmostedt's new set would be a lift in energy, too.

[Frank Berger]

On 6/27/2020 7:12 PM, earb...@gmail.com wrote:
> It seems like it would be hard to have only 2 sets. I have:
> Steinberg
> Szell
> Vanska
> Ormandy
> Karajan (1963)
> Haitink (RCO 80s)
> Ansermet
> Scherchen
> Kletzki
> Furtwangler (EMI)
>
> I May be forgetting 1 or 2. My least favorite of these is the Scherchen, but I also do not like the Steinberg due to the shitty sound. The Szell is the best of these.
>

Re: Shitty sound on the Steinberg set. Are you referring to
the new DG set? Seems to me I've read nothing but good
things about the sound.

[stanpu...@gmail.com]

In no particular order Ihave:
Szell
Muti
Leibowitz
Karajan ‘63 and ‘77
Chailly/LGO
Cluytens
Jochum RCOA
Gielen
Ormandy
Haitink/LPO
Morris
Konwitchsky
I might be forgetting others. Not counting various singles. If more modern sound is required, Chailly. Otherwise I’d add Leibowitz (only part of a Scribendum box). IMO I’ve been only whelmed by Thielemann and Nelsons.

Stan Punzel

[markdp...@gmail.com]

Lots of great ones, including:
Szell
Furtwangler
Karajan 63
Klemperer
Toscanini
Wand
Cluytens

Newer sets:
Pletnev ( weird but interesting)
Chailly

[Oscar]

On Saturday, June 27, 2020 at 1:42:56 PM, sfr...@nycap.rr.com wrote:
>
> Oh I love this topic! I have ten sets...

I concur. This subject never gets old (no sarcasm). And to Mr. Chalmers, I reflexively recommend for yr third set, without reservation and with palpable enthusiasm, Richard Caniell's 2016 restoration of The Nine for his Immortal Performances Recorded Music Society. I know I know, it's expensive. Just get it!

http://immortalperformances.org/documents.php?d=13#57

Also, I think you need a DDD cycle. As far as full cycles go, recorded as a cycle and in modern digital stereo sound, I like Chailly.

[Alex Brown]

On 2020-06-27 21:15, Lawrence Chalmers wrote:
> Just curious here. What sets of the numerous do you recommend? Dave Hurwitz's top choice is on a Sony cheap set by Wand. I own only two: Steinberg's and
> Cluytens, so far enough for me for now. I'm looking for a possible set in newer sound and consistent performances.
>

If I had to save just three from a burning house I'd save:

- A Furtwängler "set" (though not of course in new sound). Pristine has
a decent selection in its "set".

- A Karajan set (swings and roundabouts for the 60s or 70s set,
performance and sound-wise).

- Something a bit "HIP". Harnoncourt probably. I've been enjoying the
new Ádám Fischer set although some of it is a bit out there. Sound is
state-of-the-art as a 24 bit download.


--
- Alex Brown

[MELMOTH13]

Le 27/06/2020 à 22:15, Lawrence Chalmers a écrit :
> Just curious here. What sets of the numerous do you recommend? Dave Hurwitz's top choice is on a Sony cheap set by Wand. I own only two: Steinberg's and
> Cluytens, so far enough for me for now. I'm looking for a possible set in newer sound and consistent performances.

*TOSCANINI 1938*...
*MONTEUX*...
*SCHERCHEN*...
*STEINBERG*...
*CLUYTENS*...
*SCHURICHT*...
*KLETZKI*...
*ZINMANN*...
*IMMERSEEL*...
*BRÜGEN*...

[MELMOTH13]

Le 28/06/2020 à 00:18, vih...@protonmail.com a écrit :
> The incomplete Markevitch set is one of my favorites.

+ 69 !...

[MELMOTH13]

Le 28/06/2020 à 15:42, MELMOTH13 a écrit :

> *TOSCANINI* 1938...

> *MONTEUX*...
> *SCHERCHEN*...
> *STEINBERG*...
> *CLUYTENS*...
> *SCHURICHT*...
> *KLETZKI*...
> *ZINMANN*...
> *IMMERSEEL*...
> *BRÜGEN*...

And *SZELL*...*KLEMPERER*...*CHAILLY* !...*JOCHUM* (mono)...

Masur, Blomstedt, Harnoncourt, Furt are interesting...

[cooper...@gmail.com]

I've been enjoying the 7/9 Rosbaud cycle on SWR very much. (I enjoy Rosbaud in practically anything!) Missing ##4 (a shame) and 9 (no loss imo) but splendid in the others. Some remarkable supplements include a CD of overtures, the superb Neveu/Rosbaud VC, an excellent Anda/Rosbaud "Emperor," and a lively Triple Concerto with the Trio de Trieste that is the only item in the set with poor sound. There are two recordings of #8: one from 1956 that is superb, and another from 1961 that is not nearly as good.

I enjoy Scherchen mainly for ##3 and 6 and the scrappy but entertaining overtures. Nothing original about my go-to sets, which have been mentioned frequently already: Blomstedt, Cluytens, Mengelberg, Szell. Many individual recordings too, of course.

AC

[sfr...@nycap.rr.com]

On Saturday, June 27, 2020 at 4:15:23 PM UTC-4, Lawrence Chalmers wrote:

> Just curious here. What sets of the numerous do you recommend? Dave Hurwitz's top choice is on a Sony cheap set by Wand. I own only two: Steinberg's and
> Cluytens, so far enough for me for now. I'm looking for a possible set in newer sound and consistent performances.

This was also covered here:

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/rec.music.classical.recordings/beethoven$20symphonies%7Csort:date/rec.music.classical.recordings/YzXq14ONHGs/RihsWDA_CAAJ

MIFrost

[MELMOTH13]

Le 28/06/2020 à 15:42, MELMOTH13 a écrit :

> *TOSCANINI 1938*...

1939, of course !...

And Skrowatchevsky...Wand...Walter...Leibovitz...
And all recordings by *FRICSAY* and *MARKEVICH* (the best 5th of the
discography IMO)...

[Chango]

On Saturday, June 27, 2020 at 4:15:23 PM UTC-4, Lawrence Chalmers wrote:

> Just curious here. What sets of the numerous do you recommend? Dave Hurwitz's top choice is on a Sony cheap set by Wand. I own only two: Steinberg's and
> Cluytens, so far enough for me for now. I'm looking for a possible set in newer sound and consistent performances.

Hi Lawrence & Crew,
I, ever the compulsive acquirer (preferable word: collector) of the pieces I love, have the following complete Beethoven symphony sets, in no particular order. (Also have many individual discs too, of course.) This year my favorite has probably been the Hyperion Mackerras.

Kubelik DG, various orchs
Karajan EMI Philharmonia
Karajan DG BPO
Kletzki Supraphon Cz PO
Mackerras, EMI/CfP; Hyperion
Scherchen, in Scribendum box
Pletnev, Rus Nat DG
Nelsons- Ens Orch De Paris, Ambroisie
Rattle EMI
Schuricht EMI
Immerseel, Anima Eterna- ZigZag
Thielemans, Sony
Skrowaczewski, Oehms
Cluytens EMI France
Walter, Sony/Columbia; also 1943-54 Andromeda
Toscanini. Music & Arts box
Hickox, ASV, N Sinf England
Hanover Band, Nimbus
Tremblay- Analekta
Jochum LSO, Ditsky reissue; also DG VPO + Bav RSO
Liebowitz, Scribendum set (first 9th I ever loved, on Chesky then); even the caterwauling of Mvt 4 was wonderful)
DVD: Gielen, EuroArts

and probably some others

Steve Koenig
www.acousticlevitation.org

[msw design]

The Markevitch Beethoven "set" is indeed excellent, even if not complete. Great Eroica, too.

[sfr...@nycap.rr.com]

This thread is the perfect example of the term "embarrassment of riches." So much great music. So little time.

MIFrost

[Frank Berger]

What? No Schmidt-Isserstedt?

[cooper...@gmail.com]

Also, as a thread about recommended recordings persists, eventually every extant recording (and probably some that are non-extant) will be named. Listing everything in one's collection is not what I would call a "recommendation," however, only a tribute to the poster's storage space, be it physical or digital.

AC

[vih...@protonmail.com]

..and no Böhm / VPO ? [ducks]


C.

[Ricardo Jimenez]

On Sun, 28 Jun 2020 11:24:12 -0700 (PDT), vih...@protonmail.com
wrote:

>..and no Böhm / VPO ? [ducks]
>
>
>C.

Lan Shui and the Copenhagen Philharmonic. Before you laugh, have a
listen on Spotify. Exhilarating performances.

[Frank Berger]

I don't if it's any good, but why would I laugh? It was
well reviewed, IIRC, and even discussed here in RMCR.

[vih...@protonmail.com]

On Sunday, June 28, 2020 at 12:23:10 AM UTC-7, earb...@gmail.com wrote:
> Yes, the new DG. I am sure they have done what they could, but there is NO BASS in th original recording, and even tweaking it on playback it is still bad. It's pretty hard to enjoy the music.


Not sure what you mean, but on my headphones the bass on the DG reissue is tubby and overwhelms my headphones at even moderate volume, I'm sorry to say. I have not heard the original Command LPs.

C.

[stanpu...@gmail.com]

Schmidt-Isserstedt

One set I had forgotten

Stan Punzel

[Oscar]

On Sunday, June 28, 2020 at 1:24:46 AM, Alex Brown wrote:
>
> - Something a bit "HIP". Harnoncourt probably. I've been enjoying the
> new Ádám Fischer set although some of it is a bit out there. Sound is
> state-of-the-art as a 24 bit download.

Yes, Harnoncourt's early 1990s set for TELDEC is a fantastic cycle. I listened all of it in April, along with the Missa and Creature of Prometheus discs. For a _partially_ HIPP set—done in Harnoncourt's own inimitable way—it is one of the best. I recommended upthread a DDD HIPP set by Chailly (energetic), but for a more cerebral side of Beethoven, and still (partially) HIPP, Harnoncourt is the choice. That makes 5 for Mr. Chalmers now:

He already owns:
1. Cluytens — I think everyone on this list can agree this is solid winner.
2. Steinberg

My recommendations
3. Toscanini & NBC Symphony Orchestra — Richard Caniell's Immortal Performances 10CD set *
4. Chailly & VPO
5. Harnoncourt & Chamber Orchestra of Europe


* "Finally, the ultimate presentation of the complete broadcast series in a restoration that offers best sound over all previous releases. Full commentary, extensive articles, photos, plus the tenth CD offers a rehearsal (orchestra) for the broadcast of the Beethoven Third Piano Concerto followed by the broadcast of that work (with Rubenstein) in better sound than the RCA Victor CD. Also Hupka interview about accidental stereo and two examples from the 1939 Beethoven Cycle. Full broadcast commentary by Gene Hamilton.

Bonus: Rehearsal and broadcast of Beethoven's Third Piano Concerto (with Rubinstein); interview with Robert Hupka and two True Stereo Beethoven Overtures, 1939."

[Gerard]

wrote in message
news:cff2b90d-b828-4d96...@googlegroups.com...

Schmidt-Isserstedt

One set I had forgotten

Stan Punzel

--------------------------------

Actually, it is more or less forgettable ;-)
Fine performances, but which one (apart from the 9th) is outstanding?

[Rebuild Queens Hall London]

On Saturday, June 27, 2020 at 9:15:23 PM UTC+1, Lawrence Chalmers wrote:
> Just curious here. What sets of the numerous do you recommend? Dave Hurwitz's top choice is on a Sony cheap set by Wand. I own only two: Steinberg's and
> Cluytens, so far enough for me for now. I'm looking for a possible set in newer sound and consistent performances.

Poor Ansermet.Nobody likes your Beethoven ,well your on my shelf in your Ace of Diamonds Guise.

[Rebuild Queens Hall London]

I also Forgot Kempe with the Munich Philharmonic in quad stereo. Should have picked a better orchestra Rudolf !. Does anyone have Dorati and the RPO on DG ?.

[Not a Dentist]

The Dorati set was quite a favorite of mine on Mercury Golden Imports LPs. Never saw the complete set except much later as a Japanese import; the DG release was UK only, as far as I know. These are NOT duplicates of 5, 6, and 7 with the LSO, which were authentic Mercury productions.

[Dan Fowler]

Lots of my favorite Beethoven sets have been listed in this thread. Were I
forced to pick one set, it would likely be the Szell set. Great
performances throughout. If allowed two more, Toscanini/M&A and Immerseel/
Anima Eterna.

But several other sets were quite influential in my Beethoven journey. When
I first heard them I was entranced for days. Karajan’s 1963 cycle
introduced me to the wonders of Beethoven ( along with Munch’s 9th and
several by Bernstein and the NYP). Toscanini’s cycle on RCA introduced me
to the wonders of Toscanini, revealing a whole new perspective on
Beethoven’s symphonies. Furtwangler, while very different in approach, had
a similar impact. And Hogwood’s set offered a whole new sound world,
especially with the renditions of the fourth and sixth symphonies.

[number_six]

To throw a wild card into the mix, there are the Liszt transcriptions.

Even posters with many sets do not seem, so far, to be mentioning these.

Maybe piano transcriptions are considered tangential to the OP's query.

But I suggest most people with a handful or more of Beethoven Symphony sets would also have the Liszt versions.

I have 'em on Harmonia Mundi, various pianists.

[number_six]

I think the 6th rates very high, as does the Egmont ovt paired with it on LP.

I'll Probably be listening to all the HSI within the next year.

[Ricardo Jimenez]

I listened to the older Katsaris set on Spotify a while ago. Banging
+ virtuosity + harsh sound = boring. There are also more recent sets
by Scherbakov and Martynov. Anybody enthusiastic about either of
them?

[Frank Berger]

Katsaris for the set, Wild for #1, Badura-Skoda and Gould
for #5, Gould again for #6, McCawley and Wass for #9 (2
piano version).

And yes, they are tangential.

[cooper...@gmail.com]

You want to get started on arrangements? Fine with me. Liszt's are far from my favorites except for #6. Possibly the best recording of any of them that I've heard, however, is Woodward's "Eroica". Has it ever been issued in digital format?

Speaking of "Eroica," Ries's arrangement for piano quartet is a good starting point when it comes to chamber music transcriptions: http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2007/July07/Beethoven_Eroica_mdg64314542.htm. And don't miss the idiotic Hummel transcriptions for flute + piano trio, esp. #1 on Naxos (https://www.naxos.com/catalogue/item.asp?item_code=8.574039), c/w another "Eroica." This performance of #7 will take you straight into Hoffnung territory: https://www.gso.se/en/gsoplay/video/beethoven-7/. The best part is that it is beautifully played and filmed.

Try not to be too daunted by this list: https://recursos.march.es/culturales/conciertos/pdf/beethoven-symphonies-in-chamber-arrangements.pdf.

:-) AC

[number_six]

Thanks -- Great list of chamber arr, though it appears they muddled the symphony # with the opus # in a couple of instances. Wonder how many composers have a recorded 1 - 9 cycle of arrangements.

Liszt, IMO, showed great awareness of the notes and structures that the listener would infer, such that they did not entirely have to be played.

[number_six]

Non-tangential comment --
Harnoncourt is my answer to the original query.

[Raymond Hall]

-Poor Ansermet.Nobody likes your Beethoven ,well your on my shelf in your Ace of Diamonds -Guise.

Well, not so fast. I rate Ansermet highly in most music, and snippets I have heard of his LvB are impressive to these ears. I would order his 1-4 now, if I could see his 5-8 available. On Eloquence. Ansermet is thought to be weak outside the Franco-Russian repertoire, but this is not a truth?

Ray Hall, Taree

[Rebuild Queens Hall London]

Glad to hear that. All of his Beethoven cycle was re-issued on Decca's double cd eloquence series as you mention,though I am not sure if it is still available. I would however confirm his Brahms cycle does sound uninspired and sounds more like a run through.

[Alan Dawes]

In article <af5f49a6-4348-4bf4...@googlegroups.com>,

Lawrence Chalmers <347chalm...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Just curious here. What sets of the numerous do you recommend? Dave
> Hurwitz's top choice is on a Sony cheap set by Wand. I own only two:
> Steinberg's and Cluytens, so far enough for me for now. I'm looking for
> a possible set in newer sound and consistent performances.

"And now for something completely different" :-)

After all the sugestions for normal sized orchestras what about a set with
in the maain only one instrument per part (including strings)?

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Beethoven-Revisited-Symphonies-Nos-1-9/dp/B079YKT1FZ

with Peter Stangel conducting the Taschenphilharmonic (Pocket Phiharmonic)
orchestra.

I bought these a couple of years ago when at 70 I decided to teach myself
the bassoon (encouraged by my doctor as good physiotherapy for my
arthritic thumbs and asthma) hoping that the reduced size would allow me
to better hear the blend of woodwind sounds. To me, apart from no.9, they
are very successful and very different to the many other recordings.

Alan

--
alan....@argonet.co.uk
alan....@riscos.org
Using an ARMX6

[Rebuild Queens Hall London]

On Saturday, June 27, 2020 at 9:15:23 PM UTC+1, Lawrence Chalmers wrote:
> Just curious here. What sets of the numerous do you recommend? Dave Hurwitz's top choice is on a Sony cheap set by Wand. I own only two: Steinberg's and
> Cluytens, so far enough for me for now. I'm looking for a possible set in newer sound and consistent performances.

Throughout the history of music, familiar and not so familiar music has been arranged, re-scored and transposed. In the case of Beethoven symphonies I used to happily romp through these as piano 4 hand arrangements with my friends as a teenager. This tradition goes back to when they were first written, as performances up until the 1900s were rare. The BEST versions are without doubt Beethoven's originals scored for a classical orchestra of around 50 to 60 players. Anything otherwise would not be so good.

[gggg gggg]

On Sunday, June 28, 2020 at 6:53:36 AM UTC-7, cooper...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Sunday, June 28, 2020 at 4:24:46 AM UTC-4, Alex Brown wrote:

> > On 2020-06-27 21:15, Lawrence Chalmers wrote:
> > > Just curious here. What sets of the numerous do you recommend? Dave Hurwitz's top choice is on a Sony cheap set by Wand. I own only two: Steinberg's and
> > > Cluytens, so far enough for me for now. I'm looking for a possible set in newer sound and consistent performances.
> > >
> >

> > If I had to save just three from a burning house I'd save:
> >
> > - A Furtwängler "set" (though not of course in new sound). Pristine has
> > a decent selection in its "set".
> >
> > - A Karajan set (swings and roundabouts for the 60s or 70s set,
> > performance and sound-wise).

> >
> > - Something a bit "HIP". Harnoncourt probably. I've been enjoying the
> > new Ádám Fischer set although some of it is a bit out there. Sound is
> > state-of-the-art as a 24 bit download.
> >
> >

> > --
> > - Alex Brown
> I've been enjoying the 7/9 Rosbaud cycle on SWR very much. (I enjoy Rosbaud in practically anything!) Missing ##4 (a shame) and 9 (no loss imo) but splendid in the others. Some remarkable supplements include a CD of overtures, the superb Neveu/Rosbaud VC, an excellent Anda/Rosbaud "Emperor," and a lively Triple Concerto with the Trio de Trieste that is the only item in the set with poor sound. There are two recordings of #8: one from 1956 that is superb, and another from 1961 that is not nearly as good.
>
> I enjoy Scherchen mainly for ##3 and 6 and the scrappy but entertaining overtures. Nothing original about my go-to sets, which have been mentioned frequently already: Blomstedt, Cluytens, Mengelberg...

(Recent Youtube upload):

Beethoven by W.Mengelberg - Complete Symphonies n°1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9 / NEW MASTERING (Century’s rec.)