Watermusic Handel - CD from hell?

Gerard

unread,

Mar 20, 2016, 7:25:21 AM3/20/16

to

Watermusic Handel - CD from hell?

The new recording by the Akademie für Alte Musik Berlin of Watermusic by
Handel gets a very negative review at Classicstoday:
http://www.classicstoday.com/review/cd-from-hell-akademie-fur-alte-musik-berlin-botches-handel/
(for insiders only - I cannot read it).

I've seen very favorable reviews and comments at other places.
OTOH I've heard a very bad recording of Four Seasons (Vivaldi) by this
ensemble.
Is Hurwitz right here? Or is it again his aversion to recordings with period
instruments?

Andrew Clarke

unread,

Mar 20, 2016, 9:45:56 AM3/20/16

to

Interested parties can hear excerpts at

http://www.prestoclassical.co.uk/r/Harmonia Mundi/HMC902216#listen

Tempi are brisk, staccato is staccato and the natural horns sound a bit wild and woolly. Personally, I can't hear anything wrong with it.

Perhaps the exuberant reviews from The Gramophone and BBC Music Magazine soured Dave's judgement?

Andrew Clarke
Canberra

Gerard

unread,

Mar 20, 2016, 10:11:56 AM3/20/16

to

"Andrew Clarke" wrote in message
news:5e3a2d59-78b0-4bbc...@googlegroups.com...

==================

Thanks.
I heard snippets at the site of ArkivMusic. Sounded good, a little wilfully
at some places.
But not an "I must run to the store now to buy it immediately" recording.
BTW not much music on the disc (Watermusic only).

Another review at:
http://www.allmusic.com/album/george-frideric-handel-water-music-mw0002911703
"" This is water music for a rather choppy, windy day, perhaps, but it's not
really a revisionist reading, just an unusual and distinctive one that has a
good deal of warmth in the slow movements. ""

wkasimer

unread,

Mar 21, 2016, 7:23:18 AM3/21/16

to

On Sunday, March 20, 2016 at 7:25:21 AM UTC-4, Gerard wrote:

> Watermusic Handel - CD from hell?
>
> The new recording by the Akademie für Alte Musik Berlin of Watermusic by
> Handel gets a very negative review at Classicstoday:

Has David Hurwitz ever given anything but a negative review to an HIP recording?

Gerard

unread,

Mar 21, 2016, 11:12:47 AM3/21/16

to

"wkasimer" wrote in message
news:6b471653-4158-4a63...@googlegroups.com...

================

I'm quite sure that he has given one or two positive reviews about HIP
recording(s).
I don't remember which one(s).

Andrew Clarke

unread,

Mar 21, 2016, 5:41:44 PM3/21/16

to

During our last duel he mentioned that he'd given a positive review of one HIP recording that he'd liked, but I can't remember which one.

I agree, incidentally, that a 48 minute CD of the Water Music is poor value for money, when you can buy the Aradia Ensemble disc that manages to fit in the Fireworks Music, and IIRR the horns are more in tune as well. Of course if you don't like tambourines ...

Andrew Clarke
Canberra

Gerard

unread,

Mar 21, 2016, 6:18:53 PM3/21/16

to

"Andrew Clarke" wrote in message

news:9bc90f58-0007-49dc...@googlegroups.com...

=======================

The positive review I remembered a little, was about a (HIP) Haydn
recording.
It was not difficult to find:
http://www.classicstoday.com/review/almost-superlative-haydn-from-mcgegan/

And another one:
http://www.classicstoday.com/review/mcgegan-haydn-57-67-68/

(Hm, that's about the same recording actually).

Another one:
http://www.classicstoday.com/review/review-14869/
(Fey with symphonies 60 and 61)
and
http://www.classicstoday.com/review/review-14858/
(Fey with symphonies 57, 59 and 65)

And there is more:
http://www.classicstoday.com/review/review-14108/
(Seven Last Words, Savall)

http://www.classicstoday.com/review/review-14222/
(Fey with symphonies 69, 86, 87)

http://www.classicstoday.com/review/review-7428/
(Brüggen with a few symphonies - here the reviewer is named "ClassicsToday")

http://www.classicstoday.com/review/review-7648/
(Freiburg Baroque Orchestra with symphonies 6-8)

http://www.classicstoday.com/review/review-11486/
(Creation, Spering)

http://www.classicstoday.com/review/review-12779/
(symphonies 6-8, Haselbock)

http://www.classicstoday.com/review/review-11138/
(Staier with piano concertos)

http://www.classicstoday.com/review/review-11255/
(Fey with symph. 83-85)

http://www.classicstoday.com/review/review-11465/
(piano concertos, Brautigam)

http://www.classicstoday.com/review/review-10524/
(Fey, symph. 34, 39, 40, 50)

http://www.classicstoday.com/review/review-7514/
(Fey again, symph. 82, 88, 95)

http://www.classicstoday.com/review/review-3883/
(Fey again, symph. 45 and 64)

http://www.classicstoday.com/review/review-3675/
(Brüggen, Paris symphonies)

All together this is quite a lot HIP recordings with favorable reviews by
Hurwitz.
And only those about Haydn recordings.
(Some could not be read because of being "Insider reviews".)

Bob Harper

unread,

Mar 21, 2016, 9:23:08 PM3/21/16

to

I was going to mention Fey's Haydn, though even there he got a bit testy
about the disc of 93, 96, and 97. "This is Haydn on autopilot: cold,
humorless, mannered, formulaic, and crude. It’s impossible to exaggerate
just how disappointing Thomas Fey’s Haydn has become, particularly given
its exciting beginnings." But your list is a good one, and gives the lie
to the notion that DH is universally anti-HIP.

Bob Harper

Andrew Clarke

unread,

Mar 22, 2016, 1:16:39 AM3/22/16

to

Here's the shibboleth:

"Now, unless you have an interest in period performance practice you can stop reading and simply purchase this disc, because nothing I am about to say should be taken as in any way qualifying a hearty recommendation. However, like so many period instrument groups, McGegan and his string players compromise the music's expressive intensity, however minimally, by refusing to use sufficient vibrato in the slow movements.

Let's be clear: there is absolutely no evidence to suggest that vibrato was not used in orchestral music of the period, and lots and lots of irrefutable source material that tells us that it actually was present, especially in adagios, on sustained notes, and in passages marked "cantabile" (the Adagio cantabile of No. 68 and that Adagio e Cantabile string trio in the middle of No. 67's finale). There's really no question about it, and the only reason I can see for avoiding a lovely, tastefully varied, but generous vocal vibrato is the refusal to accept the resulting warmth of timbre as a legitimate, "period" sound.
- See more at: http://www.classicstoday.com/review/almost-superlative-haydn-from-mcgegan/#sthash.1EAJSOLP.dpuf"

Gerard

unread,

Mar 22, 2016, 6:51:15 AM3/22/16

to

"Andrew Clarke" wrote in message

news:ae84ade2-facc-4e94...@googlegroups.com...

Here's the shibboleth:

"Now, unless you have an interest in period performance practice you can
stop reading and simply purchase this disc, because nothing I am about to
say should be taken as in any way qualifying a hearty recommendation.
However, like so many period instrument groups, McGegan and his string
players compromise the music's expressive intensity, however minimally, by
refusing to use sufficient vibrato in the slow movements.

Let's be clear: there is absolutely no evidence to suggest that vibrato was
not used in orchestral music of the period, and lots and lots of irrefutable
source material that tells us that it actually was present, especially in
adagios, on sustained notes, and in passages marked "cantabile" (the Adagio
cantabile of No. 68 and that Adagio e Cantabile string trio in the middle of
No. 67's finale). There's really no question about it, and the only reason I
can see for avoiding a lovely, tastefully varied, but generous vocal vibrato
is the refusal to accept the resulting warmth of timbre as a legitimate,
"period" sound.
- See more at:
http://www.classicstoday.com/review/almost-superlative-haydn-from-mcgegan/#sthash.1EAJSOLP.dpuf"

====================

It looked strange to read that, while the "judgement" is 9/9 - which IS a
recommendation, on that website.

He continued with this:

"It doesn’t make a huge difference, especially when the playing is this
good, the intonation so accurate, and the interpretations so alert and
sensitive in all other respects"

and keeps repeating his vision on the use of vibrato:

"but I simply can’t understand why today’s performers must hold back that
last ounce of expressive communicativeness when the music so obviously asks
for it, and they are so capable of doing it. It makes no sense, but there it
is."

after which he rounds off with (a real recommendation):

"If none of this bothers you, then consider the disc a 10/9, which is what I
gave it on its initial release a while ago. Either way, do go buy this disc.
It’s still wonderful."

Terry

unread,

Mar 23, 2016, 3:34:32 AM3/23/16

to

Quite separately from the qualities of the performance and recording, Gramophone (or was it BBC Music magazine?) complained about the short measure, pointing out that most rivals provide also the Fireworks Music, as do Jordi Savall and Robert King; Zefiro give you Telemann's Water Music.