Beethoven sonatas one by one....
Simon Roberts
in individual performances rather than in box sets by the same pianist. I
complained at the time that the prospect of devising such a list made my
mind go numb, but hoped he would offer one. He hasn't yet, and in the
mean time my mind seems to have recovered a little bit, so here's a stab
at it. To make life easier for myself I've omitted recordings which
appear in complete sets that I have regardless of whether they are
available disc by disc. So, even though I may prefer some of what they
offer to any of what follows in at least some sonatas, you will find no
reference to Nat, Backhaus, Gilels (not quite complete but near enough),
Brendel III, Kuerti, Buchbinder (calm down, MT), Ashkenazy/London, Kempff
1950s DG (don't like them, but I keep them around just in case), Frank,
the Claves HIP box (several pianists, but it's all or nothing), Heidsieck,
Schnabel, Taulb, Gulda, Badura-Skoda or Annie Fischer. (Looks like some
culling is in order....)
Also, this is merely a list, so not at all useful to anyone who doesn't
know any of these performances, especially since some of these have never
made it to CD; but it may provoke some comments somehow or other from
those who do know them, and may spark off who knows what.... For the most
part they're not listed in any particular order.
1. Richter (especially live/M&A), Kocsis
2. I'm drawing a blank (partly because I've excluded completes....)
3. Michelangeli (any of them, but none is better than the first, on EMI),
Gelber, Richter
4. Sokolov, Richter
5. Kovacevich/EMI (not the earlier one on Philips), Kocsis, Gould
6. Gelber, Bilson/Nonesuch (HIP), Kovacevich
7. Gelber, Richter, Kovacevich, Edwin Fischer, Igumnov
8. Kocsis, Kovacevich, Edwin Fischer
9. Kovacevich
10 Ditto
11 Ditto
12 Richter, Kovacevich
13 Drawing another blank
14 Friedman, Bauer, Lubimov (HIP)
15 Sofronitsky, Kovacevich
16 Kovacevich, Rosen
17 Richter, Kovacevich, Kocsis
18 Kovacevich, Richter, Ashkenazy (Russian Disc)
19
20
21 Kovacevich, Gelber, Newman (HIP, especially the earlier one), Szasz,
Hofmann (!)
22
23 Richter, Sofronitsky, Bauer, Feinberg
24
25 Gelber, Kovacevich
26 Pletnev (either, but esp. DG), Gelber
27 Gelber, Kovacevich
28 Sokolov, Kovacevich (either), Yudina
29 Peter Serkin (HIP, LP only, rather than his Steinway recording),
Yudina, Sokolov
30 Kovacevich (either, but the EMI ought to have better sound),
Richter/Leipzig, Afanassiev, Lefebure (either)
31 Demus (HIP, live, LP only), Kovacevich (either), Lefebure (either),
Lamond
32 Peter Serkin (HIP), Yudina, Kovacevich (either), Lefebure, Ugorski (!)
That's enough for now....
Simon
mt
mention of, gasp, The Unbearable Buchbinder.
I sometimes speculate on what the history of recorded Beethoven would be
if Harold Bauer had recorded a cycle. Such a cycle might well have
surpassed Schnabel's -- no, I'm not kidding. Unfortunately, the
Moonshine and Appasionata are all we have, but what performances! They
combine the depth of a Schnabel with the volatility of a Sofronitsky or
a Richter. Really great stuff -- on Biddulph, in decent remasterings.
Regards,
mt
Bob Lombard
Simon Roberts wrote in message <7v8d79$h32$1...@netnews.upenn.edu>...
>Bob Lombard recently suggested that it's best to collect Beethoven sonatas
>in individual performances rather than in box sets by the same pianist. I
>complained at the time that the prospect of devising such a list made my
>mind go numb, but hoped he would offer one. He hasn't yet, and in the
[all the important stuff snipped]
Nope, haven't done it yet but I'm working on it. My plan is to post
selections for four sonatas at a time. I'll mention the field (all the
performances I have on hand, and have listenned to immediately before
picking). I'll attempt to give some kind of reason for my choice.
I'm not going to exclude performances that are part of sets, because those
performances (usually) can be had as "singles". Since I am in no way
considered an authority, the "field" and my selection should generate some
traffic on the ng that actually has something to do with classical music
recordings. (Except where my choice brings forth vituperation, which I hope
to handle as well as Samir does.)
I'm pretty sure that there will be one HIP performance (of the "Moonlight"),
but as a co-selection. And I am prejudiced against Kovacevich because of his
overtouted, underperformed set of the Bartok concertos.
bl
ps. This subject should already have roused Dan Koren. Does anyone on the ng
know him personally? I am beginning to be concerned.
mif
CDs, as opposed to individual sonatas, do people think are outstanding?
Are there any particular CDs (single, double, triple, whatever) that
have excellent recordings of these works? (Of course there are. I just
would like a list if you please) One cannot buy a particular sonata by
itself. They're packages in groups, typically by one pianist. What are
people's favorites, if you please?
In the last week I have purchased Handel's Concerti Grossi - Orpheus
Chamber Orchestra (Beautiful), Mozart's Horn Concerti - Brain (ditto),
Offenbach's Gaite Parisienne - Rosenthal on NAXOS (haven't listened
yet), Bach's Violin Concerti - Mulova (lovely) and Mahler #2 -
Abravanal (thank you Mr. Roberts).
* Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet's Discussion Network *
The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet - Free!
Simon Roberts
: May I please pose an offshoot question to this thread? What specific
: CDs, as opposed to individual sonatas, do people think are outstanding?
: Are there any particular CDs (single, double, triple, whatever) that
: have excellent recordings of these works? (Of course there are. I just
: would like a list if you please) One cannot buy a particular sonata by
: itself. They're packages in groups, typically by one pianist. What are
: people's favorites, if you please?
Most of those I recommended are on such discs. In some instances I didn't
mention all the performances on such a disc, but that doesn't mean I don't
also recommend them highly. In particular I would recommend all the
Beethoven recordings made by Gelber for Denon, and all of Kovacevich's for
both Philips and EMI, except, perhaps, his first recording of 5, which I
don't think's nearly as good as the remake on EMI.
So instead here's a list of recordings I recommended that aren't on
all-Beethoven discs: Richter's 1 (unless the M&A performance is in a M&A
Richter Beethoven set); Michelangeli's 3s except for the performance on AS
disc, which comes with 32 (unless there's a Michelangeli all-Beethoven
sonata disc I don't know about); Igumnnov's 7; Richter's 12; Friedman,
Bauer's, and Lubimov's first recording of 14; Ashkenazy's 18; Hofmann's 21
(which probably isn't a safe recommendation anyway); Bauer's and
Feinberg's 23; Pletnev's DG 26.
: In the last week I have purchased Handel's Concerti Grossi - Orpheus
: Chamber Orchestra (Beautiful), Mozart's Horn Concerti - Brain (ditto),
: Offenbach's Gaite Parisienne - Rosenthal on NAXOS (haven't listened
: yet), Bach's Violin Concerti - Mulova (lovely) and Mahler #2 -
: Abravanal (thank you Mr. Roberts).
I would say "you're welcome" except that I'm pretty sure I've never
recommended *any* of those; someone else deserves your thanks....
Simon
Bob Lombard
mif wrote in message <000b8d9b...@usw-ex0102-011.remarq.com>...
>May I please pose an offshoot question to this thread? What specific
>CDs, as opposed to individual sonatas, do people think are outstanding?
>Are there any particular CDs (single, double, triple, whatever) that
>have excellent recordings of these works? (Of course there are. I just
>would like a list if you please) One cannot buy a particular sonata by
>itself. They're packages in groups, typically by one pianist. What are
>people's favorites, if you please?
>
Beethoven sonatas, the selection (of favorites) process may very well cause
a single CD to be selected more than once. That would be a clue. In all
cases, I will identify the other pieces on a disk containing a favorite.
Other contributors to the thread will do as they please, no matter what you
or I say. :-}
By the way, I have discovered that, with a major contribution from Phil
Caron, I have many performances of each sonata that I have to hear again
before posting. So, to keep each post at a reasonable length, I will proceed
with the "sonatas one by one", er, one by one. Op. 2/1 post by the end of
the weekend.
bl
Neil
wrote:
>
>ps. This subject should already have roused Dan Koren. Does anyone on the ng
>know him personally? I am beginning to be concerned.
Dan dips in and out at leisure.
Just rave on about Kempff, Arrau and Solomon for a bit and trash a few Richter
and ABM performances and he might respond.
:-)
mif
si...@dept.english.upenn.edu (Simon Roberts) wrote:
> mif (sfrost2...@nycap.rr.com.invalid) wrote:
and Mahler #2 -
> : Abravanal (thank you Mr. Roberts).
> I would say "you're welcome" except that I'm pretty sure I've never
> recommended *any* of those; someone else deserves your thanks....
> Simon
No. I'm happy to say you listed the Abravanal recording of Mahler's 2nd
as your current favorite in a recent Mahler thread. I listened to it
last night. It was very good, especially the last movement.
Simon Roberts
: No. I'm happy to say you listed the Abravanal recording of Mahler's 2nd
: as your current favorite in a recent Mahler thread. I listened to it
: last night. It was very good, especially the last movement.
If I really did, I must be losing my mind; I bought it, played it once,
didn't like it, and ditched it. I certainly don't have it. The Abravanel
Mahler recording I list as one of my favorites is no. 4.
Simon
mif
And ... that is the recording I bought. So the thank you still applies.
Thomas J. Wood
mif wrote:
> May I please pose an offshoot question to this thread? What specific
> CDs, as opposed to individual sonatas, do people think are outstanding?
> Are there any particular CDs (single, double, triple, whatever) that
> have excellent recordings of these works? (Of course there are. I just
> would like a list if you please) One cannot buy a particular sonata by
> itself. They're packages in groups, typically by one pianist. What are
> people's favorites, if you please?
>
My all-time favorite single Beethoven sonata CD consists of performances by
Artur Rubinstein. It contains the "favorite" sonatas: Moonlight, Pathetique,
Appassionata, Farewell. Rubinstein recorded very few Beethoven sonatas, but
these are some of the best available. Rubinstein's Appassionata almost equals
Richter's in passion, and surpasses Richter in the whirlwind coda. (Richter
cheats by playing the finale TOO FAST: it's marked Allegro ma non troppo,
ferchrisake).
You should still be able to find this disk in the cheap RCA "Basic 100" series.
--
Tom Wood
mt
<<My all-time favorite single Beethoven sonata CD consists of
performances by Artur Rubinstein. It contains the "favorite" sonatas:
Moonlight, Pathetique, Appassionata, Farewell. Rubinstein recorded very
few Beethoven sonatas, but these are some of the best available.
Rubinstein's Appassionata almost equals Richter's in passion, and
surpasses Richter in the whirlwind coda. (Richter cheats by playing the
finale TOO FAST: it's marked Allegro ma non troppo,
ferchrisake).>>
Indeed, this ultracheapo disk is essential Beethoven; the Moonlight is
almost as good as Harold Bauer's. Rubinstein did record other sonatas,
and there is a volcanic earlier Appasionata that I hope made it to the
big box and is made available in a separate disk. In his autobiography,
Artur talks about his lengthy discussion with Richter about how to play
the Appasionata (the discussion was laced with lots of vodka!). He also
mentions his series of ten Carnegie Hall recitals in the early sixties,
during which he played all the Beethoven sonatas he knew. Artur thought
that Richter had become more of a prima donna than him, and he confesses
to feeling jealous... I don't think this live material was ever issued,
above or underground. It would be an interesting document. The few live
Rubinstein recitals I've heard are tremendous.
For the record, I think that Rubinstein ranks as one of the greatest
Beethoven interpreters ever. His concerto set with Leinsdorf gets better
and better with time. What flair, intelligence and sensitivity the man
had!
Regards,
mt
Tom Cobey
the appassionata performed
by rudolph serkin is still my favorite with richter a close 2nd.
tom
"Thomas J. Wood" wrote:
>
> mif wrote:
>
> > May I please pose an offshoot question to this thread? What specific
> > CDs, as opposed to individual sonatas, do people think are outstanding?
> > Are there any particular CDs (single, double, triple, whatever) that
> > have excellent recordings of these works? (Of course there are. I just
> > would like a list if you please) One cannot buy a particular sonata by
> > itself. They're packages in groups, typically by one pianist. What are
> > people's favorites, if you please?
> >
>
> My all-time favorite single Beethoven sonata CD consists of performances by
> Artur Rubinstein. It contains the "favorite" sonatas: Moonlight, Pathetique,
> Appassionata, Farewell. Rubinstein recorded very few Beethoven sonatas, but
> these are some of the best available. Rubinstein's Appassionata almost equals
> Richter's in passion, and surpasses Richter in the whirlwind coda. (Richter
> cheats by playing the finale TOO FAST: it's marked Allegro ma non troppo,
> ferchrisake).
>
Gyorgy Sajo
> Rubinstein did record other sonatas,
> and there is a volcanic earlier Appasionata that I hope made it to the
> big box and is made available in a separate disk.
Yes, watch out for vol. 14, when the items will be available separately
(allegedly from January 2000). The couplings are the Op. 31 No. 3 from
1946, and the 3rd concerto with Toscanini.
Gyorgy
mif
grouped. There is a CD out of Horowitz doing them. Any thoughts on that
disc?
In article <3819B005...@uis.edu>, "Thomas J. Wood" <wo...@uis.edu>
wrote:
> >
> My all-time favorite single Beethoven sonata CD consists of
> performances by
> Artur Rubinstein. It contains the "favorite" sonatas: Moonlight,
> Pathetique,
> Appassionata, Farewell.
> --
> Tom Wood
vladimir
>
>My all-time favorite single Beethoven sonata CD consists of performances by
>Artur Rubinstein. It contains the "favorite" sonatas: Moonlight,
Pathetique,
>these are some of the best available. Rubinstein's Appassionata almost
equals
>Richter's in passion, and surpasses Richter in the whirlwind coda. (Richter
>cheats by playing the finale TOO FAST: it's marked Allegro ma non troppo,
>ferchrisake).
I've always found Rubinstein's 1963 Appassionata weak; the 1945 version was
much more interesting. However, my favorite "Les Adieux" of all is
Rubinstein's, from the cd you refer to.
- Phil Caron
vladimir
>This collection of "name" sonatas is probably the most recorded and
>grouped. There is a CD out of Horowitz doing them. Any thoughts on that
>disc?
>
like them both. The earlier Moonlight is excellent, but the later one is
almost bitter or cynical. The later Appassionata is extremely colorful, and
dense in phrasings and pianistic effects, and makes most other versions
sound monochrome. The music bears this treatment well. Horowitz also
recorded the Moonlight in 1946 (RCA again,) a very clean but slightly wooden
performance.
- Phil Caron
vladimir
comparing versions of Beethoven sonatas a couple of years ago. It is a big
project, and I gave it a rest for several reasons. However, I can't let
this thread pass without chipping in my 32-cents' worth. I lack many
things, like Nat's, Gulda's, Kempff's mono and other sets, never mind
individual performances.
Alphabetically for each sonata:
1. Perahia, Richter (M&A), Schnabel
2. Kempff, Perl
3. Annie Fischer, Michelangeli (1941 EMI), Richter 1975
4. Ashkenazy, Brendel (Vox), Kuerti, Sokolov
5. Kovacevich (EMI)
6. Annie Fischer, Gould, Schnabel
7. Annie Fischer, Edwin Fischer, Horowitz
8. Edwin Fischer, Richter (1958 Parnassus)
9. Ashkenazy
10. Cziffra, Schnabel
11. Frank, Gilels, Pollini
12. Brendel (Vox), Schnabel
13. Schnabel
14. Annie Fischer, Horowitz (1956)
15. Edwin Fischer, Kempff, Schnabel
16. Ashkenazy, Kovacevich (EMI)
17. Ashkenazy, Annie Fischer, Perahia, Richter (Praga)
18. Annie Fischer, Perahia, Richter (Praga), Rubinstein
19. Richter (1965, Icone)
20. Kempff, Nikolayeva
21. Cziffra, Gilels (DG), Horowitz (both 1956 and 1972)
22. Kempff, Kuerti
23. Ashkenazy, Annie Fischer, Edwin Fischer, Horowitz (1972), Richter
(1960), Rubinstein (1945), Serkin (1957, Ermitage)
24. Annie Fischer, Gould, Kuerti, Nikolayeva
25. Ashkenazy, Kuerti
26. Rubinstein
27. Annie Fischer, Richter (1993 Philips)
28. Backhaus (1967), Annie Fischer, Gilels (DG), Pollini, Richter (1986,
Philips)
29. Ashkenazy, Levy, Pollini (both 1970 Arkadia & 1976 DG), Solomon
30. Hess, Kovacevich (EMI)
31. Nikolayeva, Pollini, Richter (1963 M&A)
32. Ashkenazy, Annie Fischer, Levy
Sigh. It's terribly incomplete. I'm sure many others would be added (and
some dropped) if my notes or memory were not so spotty.
- phil caron
Lowell Stanforth
si...@dept.english.upenn.edu (Simon Roberts) wrote:
> [snip] Also, this is merely a list, so not at all useful to anyone
> who doesn't know any of these performances, especially since some of
> these have never made it to CD; but it may provoke some comments
> somehow or other from those who do know them, and may spark off who
> knows what.... For the most part they're not listed in any
> particular order.
>
> 1. Richter (especially live/M&A), Kocsis
> 2. I'm drawing a blank (partly because I've excluded completes....)
> 3. Michelangeli (any of them, but none is better than the first, on
> EMI), Gelber, Richter
> 4. Sokolov, Richter
> 5. Kovacevich/EMI (not the earlier one on Philips), Kocsis, Gould
Good to read a mention of Gould's #5, which, along with his #1 and #3,
has long been a favorite among his recs of the early sonatas. I don't
think it would be unreasonable to include Gould's #15 and #24 on this
list; nevertheless, in an effort to keep the peace, I'll not mention
his altogether interesting #17 and #31.
Lowell
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Martha & Russ Oppenheim
For me, the real prize here will be the absolutely torrential
"Appassionata," which is also included. Rubinstein plays the
toccata-like coda of the finale fortissimo throughout, and although it
is in contradiction to the score, it makes all other performances I have
heard sound tame.
Russ Oppenheim
mopp...@ix.netcom.com
----------------------
John L Holubiak
I find the Op. 109 from that disc to be rushed. I've been re-listening to
Gould's Beethoven, sparked by recent threads, and whatever Gould may have
said about Beethoven's music, his artistry certainly kicked in when he
played it. His tone is ravishingly beautiful, he gives careful attention to
details with both hands and his phrasing is thoughtfully shaped. His
technique is in command of the music. He makes it sound easy. I'm enjoying
his recordings of this music very much.
John
Lowell Stanforth <stan...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:7ver2j$h01$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
lord_e...@my-deja.com
"vladimir" <vlad...@vermontel.com> wrote:
[...great list of pianists cut...]
>
> Sigh. It's terribly incomplete. I'm sure many others would be added
(and
> some dropped) if my notes or memory were not so spotty.
>
> - phil caron
Thank you!! These lists are great. Though pretty exhausting - even
for the reader: I'm still trying to figure out which pianists I need
to assimilate into my collection from Simon's list from the other
day. Now, your list. Next, Bob threatening to come up with the
Encyclopedia Britannica of pianists in installments... However, I'm
not complaining!
Thanks,
Lena
Owen Hartnett
<charm...@msn.com> wrote:
> I too am quite taken with Gould's recording of Beethoven's Op. 110, although
> I find the Op. 109 from that disc to be rushed. I've been re-listening to
> Gould's Beethoven, sparked by recent threads, and whatever Gould may have
> said about Beethoven's music, his artistry certainly kicked in when he
> played it. His tone is ravishingly beautiful, he gives careful attention to
> details with both hands and his phrasing is thoughtfully shaped. His
> technique is in command of the music. He makes it sound easy. I'm enjoying
> his recordings of this music very much.
A buddy of mine and I used to get in to work early, and we'd pop on a disk
before the place got filled up. Once I bought the Odyssey editions of the
Gould piano sonatas and went through them all, one sonata a day. Most of
these are simply wonderful. There's a couple of duds (I'll agree on the
Appassionata as a dud!) but the ones that click are some of the best
recorded performances anywhere. I haven't heard the Op. 109-110, but the
Odyssey sets are terrific.
-Owen
Simon Roberts
: Good to read a mention of Gould's #5, which, along with his #1 and #3,
: has long been a favorite among his recs of the early sonatas. I don't
: think it would be unreasonable to include Gould's #15 and #24 on this
: list; nevertheless, in an effort to keep the peace, I'll not mention
: his altogether interesting #17 and #31.
I meant to add, but forgot, his 16-18, and would probably add some more
(esp. 6 and 7).
Simon
vladimir
for me. The first movement is ridiculously fast, but not quite comically
so. That it works at all is surely a testament to the composer's
universality. I like it. If only he'd applied such a tempo to the 1st
movement of the Appassionata.
- Phil Caron
John Gavin
Moravec - #15 (Pastorale)
Hess - #31
Michelangeli - #32
Lowell Stanforth
early-fifties mono, what's worse is that he never got around to
recording opus 81a, a piece for which he famously expressed affection
and of which spirited interpretations are, to my ears at least, all too
rare. (He should have recorded Ludus Tonalis, too, and the 'Concord'
sonata; but that's for another thread, one in which I also lament the
absence of Schoenberg's opus 25 from Michelangeli's repertoire.)
And I'll second your recommendation of Sokolov's inspired
Hammerklavier, which, had he recorded nothing else, would have been
enough to ensure him a place among the all-time great Beethovenians.
LS
In article <7vheu3$92t$1...@netnews.upenn.edu>,
Thomas J. Wood
vladimir wrote:
I have the 1972 Horowitz on LP and have never liked it much. His playing strikes
me as lumpy and disjointed, and at times, technically shakey (typical of most of
his playing in that period).
--
Tom Wood
lord_e...@my-deja.com
si...@dept.english.upenn.edu (Simon Roberts) wrote:
[...]
> 28 Sokolov, Kovacevich (either), Yudina
> 29 Peter Serkin (HIP, LP only, rather than his Steinway recording),
> Yudina, Sokolov
> 30 Kovacevich (either, but the EMI ought to have better sound),
> Richter/Leipzig, Afanassiev, Lefebure (either)
> 31 Demus (HIP, live, LP only), Kovacevich (either), Lefebure
(either),
> Lamond
> 32 Peter Serkin (HIP), Yudina, Kovacevich (either), Lefebure,
Ugorski
(!)
Does anyone know if the Sokolov Hammerklavier is still available? (It's
on Mobile Fidelity, said someone.) What about the recommended Yudina?
(Doesn't the Great Pianists series Yudina have various variations?)
Pardon all these questions, but there's one more: who is Lefebure?
Thanks!
Lena
Steve Emerson
>
> lord_e...@my-deja.com wrote:
>
> : Does anyone know if the Sokolov Hammerklavier is still available? (It's
> : on Mobile Fidelity, said someone.)
>
>
> What about the recommended Yudina?
>
> the U.S. (or anywhere? does it still exist?).
>
> : (Doesn't the Great Pianists series Yudina have various variations?)
>
> Yes; not to be missed.
...
has numerous Yudina Arlecchino titles.
SE.
Simon Roberts
: Does anyone know if the Sokolov Hammerklavier is still available? (It's
: on Mobile Fidelity, said someone.)
Someone found his copy at Tower in NY some time in the last six months.
What about the recommended Yudina?
Arlecchino, a label which currently seems to be without a distributor in
the U.S. (or anywhere? does it still exist?).
: (Doesn't the Great Pianists series Yudina have various variations?)
Yes; not to be missed.
: Pardon all these questions, but there's one more: who is Lefebure?
Yvonne Lefebure, a wonderful French pianist probably most widely known for
being the pianist on a widely available of Mozart 466 conducted by
Furtwaengler, but who recorded for EMI and FY and Solstice into the 1980s.
There's an excellent French EMI twofer devoted to her, which includes late
sonatas and repeat-free Diabellis (dispatched in 30 minutes!).
Simon
Andy Evans
Fischer on Dante. Marvellously fresh playing. Really invigorating. Andy
lord_e...@my-deja.com
> > What about the recommended Yudina?
> >
> > Arlecchino, a label which currently seems to be without a
distributor in
> > the U.S. (or anywhere? does it still exist?).
> >
[...]
>
> http://www.hbdirect.com
>
> has numerous Yudina Arlecchino titles.
>
> SE.
Excellent, found them. Thanks, Steve - and Simon.
Deryk Barker
[...]
: Does anyone know if the Sokolov Hammerklavier is still available? (It's
: on Mobile Fidelity, said someone.)
Dunno if it's still available, but I got my copy (yes on MF) a couple
of years back from BRO.
You could always send Beach across and borrow mine...:-)
--
|Deryk Barker, Computer Science Dept. | Music does not have to be understood|
|Camosun College, Victoria, BC, Canada| It has to be listened to. |
|email: dba...@camosun.bc.ca | |
|phone: +1 250 370 4452 | Hermann Scherchen. |
lord_e...@my-deja.com
dba...@camosun.bc.nospam.ca (Deryk Barker) wrote:
> lord_e...@my-deja.com wrote:
> : Does anyone know if the Sokolov Hammerklavier is still available?
(It's
> : on Mobile Fidelity, said someone.)
>
> Dunno if it's still available, but I got my copy (yes on MF) a couple
> of years back from BRO.
>
> You could always send Beach across and borrow mine...:-)
Thank you! Beach, my otherwise estimable butler, values the
Hammerklavier slightly below rap music and pigs as a class. He refuses
to be sent across.
(Tell me, are you perhaps Sir Gregory Parsloe-Parsloe in disguise?)
Clarence, the ninth Earl of Emsworth
PS. Apologies to nonfans of P.G. Wodehouse.
Thomas Deas
<lord_e...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:7vq864$eoq$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
> Clarence, the ninth Earl of Emsworth
^^^^^
Tut!
> PS. Apologies to nonfans of P.G. Wodehouse.
Don't bother. They don't need it.
lord_e...@my-deja.com
"Thomas Deas" <tj...@spam.ac.uk> wrote:
>
> <lord_e...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
> news:7vq864$eoq$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
>
> > Clarence, the ninth Earl of Emsworth
> ^^^^^
> Tut!
What's wrong with ninth? He isn't? ( I mean, I'm not? :) )
Thomas, have you re-emerged for good, or is this a brief shore leave
before you submerge again?
Lena
Thomas Deas
<lord_e...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:7vtcf0$o4o$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
> In article <7vqcte$48q$1...@pegasus.csx.cam.ac.uk>,
> "Thomas Deas" <tj...@spam.ac.uk> wrote:
> >
> > <lord_e...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
> > news:7vq864$eoq$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
> >
> > > Clarence, the ninth Earl of Emsworth
> > ^^^^^
> > Tut!
>
> What's wrong with ninth? He isn't? ( I mean, I'm not? :) )
I mean 'the' - you don't need it (I think).
>
> Thomas, have you re-emerged for good, or is this a brief shore leave
> before you submerge again?
I don't know. I ought not to be here, but it's too easy to keep coming back,
especially with 24-hour network access, without time charges. Right now I
ought to be writing an essay on something too frightful to attempt to
describe.
Dan Koren
Simon Roberts <si...@dept.english.upenn.edu> wrote:
>
>1. Richter (especially live/M&A), Kocsis
>2. I'm drawing a blank (partly because I've excluded completes....)
>3. Michelangeli (any of them, but none is better than the first, on EMI),
> Gelber, Richter
>4. Sokolov, Richter
No Michelangeli?
>5. Kovacevich/EMI (not the earlier one on Philips), Kocsis, Gould
>6. Gelber, Bilson/Nonesuch (HIP), Kovacevich
>7. Gelber, Richter, Kovacevich, Edwin Fischer, Igumnov
>8. Kocsis, Kovacevich, Edwin Fischer
Horowitz, Richter?
>9. Kovacevich
>10 Ditto
>11 Ditto
Richter?
>12 Richter, Kovacevich
Michelangeli?
>13 Drawing another blank
>14 Friedman, Bauer, Lubimov (HIP)
Gilels?
>15 Sofronitsky, Kovacevich
Fischer?
>16 Kovacevich, Rosen
>17 Richter, Kovacevich, Kocsis
Richter only
>18 Kovacevich, Richter, Ashkenazy (Russian Disc)
Rubinstein?
>19
>20
Richter
>21 Kovacevich, Gelber, Newman (HIP, especially the earlier one), Szasz,
> Hofmann (!)
Cziffra, Gilels, Lupu?
>22
Richter
>23 Richter, Sofronitsky, Bauer, Feinberg
>24
Kempff
>25 Gelber, Kovacevich
>26 Pletnev (either, but esp. DG), Gelber
Cliburn, Rubinstein?
>27 Gelber, Kovacevich
Richter?
>28 Sokolov, Kovacevich (either), Yudina
Argerich, Gilels, Horowitz?
>29 Peter Serkin (HIP, LP only, rather than his Steinway recording),
> Yudina, Sokolov
Rosen?
>30 Kovacevich (either, but the EMI ought to have better sound),
> Richter/Leipzig, Afanassiev, Lefebure (either)
Ogdon, Schnabel?
>31 Demus (HIP, live, LP only), Kovacevich (either), Lefebure (either),
> Lamond
No one comes close to Fischer.
>32 Peter Serkin (HIP), Yudina, Kovacevich (either), Lefebure, Ugorski (!)
?!? Fischer, Levy, Michelangeli, Sofronitsky? I like Ugorsky too... :)
And you can't be serious about Serkin or Kovacevich...
dk
Dan Koren
vladimir <vlad...@vermontel.com> wrote:
>
>I've always found Rubinstein's 1963 Appassionata weak; the 1945 version was
>much more interesting. However, my favorite "Les Adieux" of all is
>Rubinstein's, from the cd you refer to.
The top "Les Adieux" are Rubinstein, Pletnev, Cliburn.
dk
Simon Roberts
: In article <7v8d79$h32$1...@netnews.upenn.edu>,
: Simon Roberts <si...@dept.english.upenn.edu> wrote:
: >4. Sokolov, Richter
: No Michelangeli?
Not the studio one; are there others?
: >5. Kovacevich/EMI (not the earlier one on Philips), Kocsis, Gould
: >6. Gelber, Bilson/Nonesuch (HIP), Kovacevich
: >7. Gelber, Richter, Kovacevich, Edwin Fischer, Igumnov
: >8. Kocsis, Kovacevich, Edwin Fischer
: Horowitz, Richter?
If you like; my suggestions weren't meant to be exhaustive.
: >9. Kovacevich
: >10 Ditto
: >11 Ditto
: Richter?
Ditto
: >12 Richter, Kovacevich
: Michelangeli?
Haven't heard it.
: >13 Drawing another blank
: >14 Friedman, Bauer, Lubimov (HIP)
: Gilels?
Maybe
: >15 Sofronitsky, Kovacevich
: Fischer?
Sure
: >16 Kovacevich, Rosen
: >17 Richter, Kovacevich, Kocsis
: Richter only
Feh
: >18 Kovacevich, Richter, Ashkenazy (Russian Disc)
: Rubinstein?
No
: >19
: >20
: Richter
OK
: >21 Kovacevich, Gelber, Newman (HIP, especially the earlier one), Szasz,
: > Hofmann (!)
: Cziffra, Gilels, Lupu?
Certainly not Gilels (at least not the DG recording or the live one I have
on M&A).
: >22
: Richter
: >23 Richter, Sofronitsky, Bauer, Feinberg
: >24
: Kempff
Chortle (anyway, I was excluding those in sets; or are you referring to
a pre WWII one?)
: >25 Gelber, Kovacevich
: >26 Pletnev (either, but esp. DG), Gelber
: Cliburn, Rubinstein?
Not for me
: >27 Gelber, Kovacevich
: Richter?
Sure
: >28 Sokolov, Kovacevich (either), Yudina
: Argerich, Gilels, Horowitz?
Sure
: >29 Peter Serkin (HIP, LP only, rather than his Steinway recording),
: > Yudina, Sokolov
: Rosen?
Probably (I assume you don't mean his latest one)
: >30 Kovacevich (either, but the EMI ought to have better sound),
: > Richter/Leipzig, Afanassiev, Lefebure (either)
: Ogdon, Schnabel?
Haven't heard Ogdon. Schnabel excluded only because in complete set (or
are you referring to another?)
: >31 Demus (HIP, live, LP only), Kovacevich (either), Lefebure (either),
: > Lamond
: No one comes close to Fischer.
If you mean pre-war, you may be right; I keep dithering about which
transfer to get -- suggestion?
: >32 Peter Serkin (HIP), Yudina, Kovacevich (either), Lefebure, Ugorski (!)
: ?!? Fischer, Levy, Michelangeli, Sofronitsky? I like Ugorsky too... :)
Not Levy, but I would cheerfully add the others.
: And you can't be serious about Serkin or Kovacevich...
Oh sure I can.
Simon
samir ghiocel golescu
On 6 Nov 1999, Simon Roberts wrote:
> Dan Koren (d...@netcom.com) wrote:
> : Simon Roberts <si...@dept.english.upenn.edu> wrote:
>
> : >31 Demus (HIP, live, LP only), Kovacevich (either), Lefebure (either),
> : > Lamond
>
> : No one comes close to Fischer.
>
> If you mean pre-war, you may be right; I keep dithering about which
> transfer to get -- suggestion?
Mr. Koren could mean *only* pre-war. As far as known, is the only
Fischer rec. of opus 110. And yes, it is wonderful. Heard it only on an
old LP, forget the label.
regards,
SG
Clifford Ando
> Mr. Koren could mean *only* pre-war. As far as known, is the only
> Fischer rec. of opus 110. And yes, it is wonderful. Heard it only on an
> old LP, forget the label.
Actually, I believe I have seen a live Op. 110 on M&A, from the post-war
period. I stayed away, since my experiences with his later recordings
have been mixed.
Clifford Ando ca...@usc.edu
Classics Department phone: (213) 740-3683
University of Southern California fax: (213) 740-7360
Los Angeles, CA 90089-0352
samir ghiocel golescu
On Sat, 6 Nov 1999, Clifford Ando wrote:
> On Sat, 6 Nov 1999, samir ghiocel golescu wrote:
>
> > Mr. Koren could mean *only* pre-war. As far as known, is the only
> > Fischer rec. of opus 110. And yes, it is wonderful. Heard it only on an
> > old LP, forget the label.
>
> Actually, I believe I have seen a live Op. 110 on M&A, from the post-war
> period.
I'd be glad to have been wrong...
> I stayed away, since my experiences with his later recordings
> have been mixed.
I have to say again that the best of Fischer is to be found in his
post-war (live) recordings, beyond occasional technical flaws or moments
of dullness. In his Schumann Phantasy, for instance, which, BTW, is a
studio rec., moments of dull playing are repaid with wonderful global
insights into the music.
Speaking of live Fischer, was the Schwarzkopf-Fischer Brahms recital ever
published on CD?
regards,
SG
samir ghiocel golescu
On Sat, 6 Nov 1999, Clifford Ando wrote:
> On Sat, 6 Nov 1999, samir ghiocel golescu wrote:
>
> > Mr. Koren could mean *only* pre-war. As far as known, is the only
> > Fischer rec. of opus 110. And yes, it is wonderful. Heard it only on an
> > old LP, forget the label.
>
> Actually, I believe I have seen a live Op. 110 on M&A, from the post-war
> period. I stayed away, since my experiences with his later recordings
> have been mixed.
Reviewing my memory, I dare guess you confused either opus 109 or opus
111, for which post-war recordings do exist, with opus 110. Anyway, all
Fischer's post-war live Beethoven is as good as (or better than) the
corresponding studio recordings, where they exist. In Fischer's repertoire
Hammerklavier was included -- I'd give the gold I don't have to see that
appearing, from a mysterious archive!
regards,
SG
vladimir
>>21 Kovacevich, Gelber, Newman (HIP, especially the earlier one), Szasz,
>> Hofmann (!)
>
>Cziffra, Gilels, Lupu?
I'm delighted to see someone else recommend the Cziffra, a doubly surprising
recording. It's not at all exhibitionistic as one might expect from this
artist, yet it's a highly individual, even unique, interpretation. And
very, very good.
. . . . . . . .
>>24
>
>Kempff
>
Hey! Hey! L-look everybody, Hey Look!!!!!
And damn me if I don't disagree. Gould's version inspires me like few other
Beethoven sonata recordings. I'd rate several others above Kempff here too,
like Annie Fischer & Nikolayeva.
>>28 Sokolov, Kovacevich (either), Yudina
>
>Argerich, Gilels, Horowitz?
If the Argerich you refer to is her 2/10/69 performance issued on Fonit
Cetra, they you're slipping. That's a sloppy and uninispired performance.
Further, Horowitz's DG recording isn't that special either (and I have a
strong Horowitz bias) - it's harsh and heavy-handed in the 2nd and he misses
the climax of the finale. Horowitz did, however, play that piece better in
some recitals of which tapes exist.
Good to see you back around here Dan. Except as noted above I agree with
your recommendations that I've heard.
- Phil Caron
John Gavin
much.......but when it was released in the early 70's, it was considered
almost as controversial as Pogorelich's Rachmaninoff #2.
Michelangeli hardly takes the 1st mvt. "Allegro con Brio". But I will
say that his fantastic concentration, perfect technique and tonal beauty
hold one's interest despite the slow tempo.
P.S. This performance is now available on Michelangeli II of the
Phillips Great Pianists Series
Thomas Deas
Clifford Ando <ca...@usc.edu> wrote in message
news:Pine.GSO.4.10.991106...@almaak.usc.edu...
> On Sat, 6 Nov 1999, samir ghiocel golescu wrote:
>
> > Mr. Koren could mean *only* pre-war. As far as known, is the only
> > Fischer rec. of opus 110. And yes, it is wonderful. Heard it only on an
> > old LP, forget the label.
>
> Actually, I believe I have seen a live Op. 110 on M&A, from the post-war
> period. I stayed away, since my experiences with his later recordings
> have been mixed.
There's an M&A double of Fischer Beethoven, which doesn't have Op.110. I
don't know if there's another set.